Other Gray's Balance Workshop

652Graystripe

Plantera
[I'm not sure what section this should be in, so Suggestions seemed okay for now. Mods, move as you will.]

I love game balance. Just puttin' it out there, I love a well-balanced weapon and exploring what makes it so. TF2 and Terraria have really aroused my interest in this field of game design, so here I am with a balance workshop.

What is a balance workshop? Simply put, it is a thread on the forums in which we present ideas for items and try to balance them to make them game-worthy! Though they don't have to be suggestions, I'm taking either. Just put your idea up and we'll discuss it!

Remember that I have no desire to be in any way "credited" for this, given that I'm just trying to spread the knowledge of proper balance.

Balance in Terraria comes in two rough forms: PvE and PvBoss. PvP is a rare occurrence for many players, so this guide does not cover it. It's already horribly balanced anyway. In most cases, it is the damage-per-second count that determines a fight, but other factors can also come into play - such as criticals and knockback, as well as other attributes the weapon has.

When balancing, always use a reference point! For example, if you want to create a lategame melee weapon, make sure it stacks up to other options available then - the Terra Blade, Scourge of the Corruptor and probably Flairon should be used as reference points. It is always important to determine where an item should fall and what niche it should occupy - for example, we don't need two Magnet Spheres in the same period of the game.

Remember that special abilities are not inherently good! My favorite example is the Inferno Fork: if it could wallhack, it would be incredibly hard to hit anything with it, as its slow speed makes it reliant on wall detonations to do damage.

Always be sure to weigh abilities in the primary scenarios. Good "testing grounds" vary based on stage of game. For example, a lategame weapon would likely be balanced against the moons, Duke Fishron and possibly the Golem or Plantera.

Lastly, although weapons in Terraria rarely have any publicized "downsides," they may be far worse than another weapon in a certain scenario. Even though it never says explicitly that the Blood Butcherer is bad because it's slow, it is slower than the Light's Bane. All downsides here are comparative.

Magic weapon that deals more damage the lower your mana is?
Spear that increases in damage as it is held out, possibly shooting projectiles at an increased rate?

To wrap everything up: I'm open to receiving new ideas and talking them over with you! This workshop is highly hypothetical, but I'd be welcome to someone making a mod or something out of our balance ideas. And lastly, I'm not the one that needs credit unless you use one of my original ideas.
 
You've summoned the horde? I suppose I could stay here for a while. Same with SzGamer, I would want to help people before they post so I don't need to accidentally sound rude.
 
I feel the same. Might as well brush some stuff up before anyone gets accidentally hurt. Plus, it's better to get it right the first time it really appears in print, as my local newspaper has discovered too many times.
 
I'd drop in and say dps calculation is crucial when it comes to properly balancing weapon suggestions, but as a matter of fact, that's also where it gets head ache worthy. Rule of thump when looking for data meant to calculate vanilla weapons DPSs: Terraria Wiki doesn't know what useTime means.
Given that I'm kinda stupid sometimes, and forget, what exactly does the useTime mean? I forget.
 
useTime and useAnimation are the values defining the delay between how often the item's effect is applied/the duration of a single use.

useAnimation is how long the use of a single item is, the higher the value, the slower the swinging/aiming/use animation. Basically, the faster the animation, the more the item can be used in a given period of time.

useTime is how often the item's effect is applied on use. The difference relies on the fact useTime DOES NOT affect how fast an item is used, instead, it affects how fast projectiles are shoot/how fast a pickaxe digs/the recharge time for beam swords. The value USUALLY is the same as useAnimation, but that's not always the case. If useTime is lower then useAnimation, the item's effect will be applied multiple times until useAnimation is over (the Clockwork Assault Rifle uses this specifically, so it can shoot 3 times in a single animation, with an extra delay between uses). If you wonder why a pickaxe and its digging are not synced, it's because their useAnimation and useTime are different values.

Now, what affects useTime and useAnimation varies. Prefixes that increase the weapon's speed affect BOTH useTime and useAnimation. Melee speed however only affects useAnimation (and only for swords), this is also why melee speed does not affect mining speed, as useAnimation means faster swinging, not faster digging (and yes, the mining speed bonus does affect useTime, but only for digging tools).

Now to explain what gamepedia does wrong, there's multiple places in where they mess up.
For once, they treat useTime as dictating over everything, while it is not exactly true as useAnimation tends to be a more relevant value. They believe useTime is what matters when it comes to weapons fire rate, which is true in most cases (swords aside as they rely on useAnimation for their melee dps, useTime only affects the beam's fire rate). However, they use a weird formula in which every useTime defined by code is listed as -1 its actual value. Through testing on a sword's swinging, they noticed the swing took one frame less than meant, hence why they think the -1 should be applied to every weapon. They do not realize it is an actual bug that only affects melee sword with autoReuse AND only affects useAnimation, but too lazy to test on other weapons, they took the rule as a global constant. "How can you be so sure it only applies to swords with autoReuse" you might ask, simply I searched the codes for it, noticed the bug myself, Yorai himself even confirmed it, if you want to test it yourself I'll tell you, Terra Blade has autoReuse, its useAnimation is the same as its useTime, but why does it not shoot a beam at every swing? Now you know, as it swings one frame faster than intended and useTime takes one frame too much to recharge just in time for the next swing to instantly shoot again. Still, they use the formula on every single item, except the Chain Gun, because an item with a speed prefix cannot go below 4 useTime (if they applied the formula, Chain Gun would be 3 useTime). This contradicts their own formula, still they use it without a second thought "except for that one weapon which would make no sense otherwise".
/rant
 
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If I had access to the source code (which i don't know how to get) I would personally go through several dozen weapons a day fixing their use times on the wiki. (It's greatly due to that kind of repetitive amends to a large number of items for the sake of consistency/accurately that I have such a high amount of wiki contributions compared to other people.)
 
I could offer something here. I know I previously made a thread just for this, but I will put it here anyway. A concept for a weapon that penetrates armor? It would be relatively weak for its tier, but its special ability would be that it completely ignores (or at least isn't nearly as affected by) the target's defense. I think theres a link in my Suggestion Complilation thread to the original thread that i made about 4-5 months ago.
 
I could offer something here. I know I previously made a thread just for this, but I will put it here anyway. A concept for a weapon that penetrates armor? It would be relatively weak for its tier, but its special ability would be that it completely ignores (or at least isn't nearly as affected by) the target's defense. I think theres a link in my Suggestion Complilation thread to the original thread that i made about 4-5 months ago.
Quick question: where would this weapon be in game progression? From there it's possible to determine appropriate stats.
 
Quick question: where would this weapon be in game progression? From there it's possible to determine appropriate stats.
Well, it could be anywhere. I imagined it being an early-hardmode sword with the stats of a mid-PreHM sword. Or the same idea for Magic or Ranger. Maybe it could just completely ignore defense, or treat the enemy as if its defense was halved?

Also, this seems like the kind of sword that would have some sort of upgrade. Not a "True Form" (with BHS) per se, but maybe the same idea as what happened with the Minishark (upgraded to the Megashark)? Idk, this is still kind of a WIP
 
Well, it could be anywhere. I imagined it being an early-hardmode sword with the stats of a mid-PreHM sword. Or the same idea for Magic or Ranger. Maybe it could just completely ignore defense, or treat the enemy as if its defense was halved?

Also, this seems like the kind of sword that would have some sort of upgrade. Not a "True Form" (with BHS) per se, but maybe the same idea as what happened with the Minishark (upgraded to the Megashark)? Idk, this is still kind of a WIP
For early hardmode, I would say about 30 damage for a weapon that ignores defense would be fine. It could be like a shortsword or a rapier to fit the piercing.
 
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