Weapons & Equip Rethinking Hardmode Gun Progression - Ore-Tiered Guns

SzGamer227

SzGamer227

Spazmatism
In order to get a scope of the progression of ranged weapons in early Hardmode, I went through all of the major ranged weapons and analyzed their DPS against various levels of enemies. In doing so, I discovered a major glitch in the usefulness of repeaters: The Phoenix Blaster, a pre-Hardmode weapon, is practically just as effective as the best repeaters in Hardmode, essentially making them useless altogether. Don’t believe me? Try looking at the numbers for yourself.

These are the effective DPS of these weapons while using 10 damage ammunition versus light armor (10 defense), medium armor (20 defense), and heavy armor (30 defense). To make comparison easier, I've color coded the DPS values (for each armor level) according to their effectiveness against the bows listed under reference.

Molten Fury, Cobalt, Palladium, Mythril, Orichalcum, Adamantite, Titanium, Hallowed
Molten Fury
Damage: 29 (+10)
Use Time: 24 (2.5 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 85
DPS v. Medium: 73
DPS v. Heavy: 60

Cobalt_Repeater.png

Cobalt Repeater
Damage: 32 (+10)
Use Time: 24 (2.5 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 93
DPS v. Medium: 80
DPS v. Heavy: 68

Palladium_Repeater.png

Palladium Repeater
Damage: 34 (+10)
Use Time: 23 (2.6 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 102
DPS v. Medium: 89
DPS v. Heavy: 76

Mythril_Repeater.png

Mythril Repeater
Damage: 36 (+10)
Use Time: 22 (2.7 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 112
DPS v. Medium: 98
DPS v. Heavy: 85

Orichalcum_Repeater.png

Orichalcum Repeater
Damage: 38 (+10)
Use Time: 21 (2.9 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 123
DPS v. Medium: 109
DPS v. Heavy: 94

Adamantite_Repeater.png

Adamantite Repeater
Damage: 41 (+10)
Use Time: 19 (3.2 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 142
DPS v. Medium: 126
DPS v. Heavy: 111

Titanium_Repeater.png

Titanium Repeater
Damage: 41 (+10)
Use Time: 18 (3.3 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 153
DPS v. Medium: 137
DPS v. Heavy: 120

Hallowed_Repeater.png

Hallowed Repeater
Damage: 43 (+10)
Use Time: 18 (3.3 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 160
DPS v. Medium: 143
DPS v. Heavy: 127

Handgun.png

Handgun
Damage: 15 (+10)
Use Time: 11 (5.5 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 109
DPS v. Medium: 82
DPS v. Heavy: 55

Phoenix_Blaster.png

Phoenix Blaster
Damage: 23 (+10)
Use Time: 10 (6 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 168
DPS v. Medium: 138
DPS v. Heavy: 108

With that said, now it's time for the meat of my suggestion: Nerf the Phoenix Blaster, reduce the damage of the Handgun by one point, and add new ore-tiered firearms. The statistical changes for the proposed Handgun and Phoenix Blaster would look like this:

Handgun.png

Handgun (Nerfed)
Damage: 14 (+10)
Use Time: 11 (5.5 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 104
DPS v. Medium: 76
DPS v. Heavy: 49

Phoenix_Blaster.png

Phoenix Blaster (Nerfed)
Damage: 17 (+10)
Use Time: 10 (6 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 132
DPS v. Medium: 102
DPS v. Heavy: 72

As you can see, this would severely reduce the Phoenix Blaster's effectiveness as a Hardmode Weapon, but would by no means make it useless. It would remain highly effective against enemies with less defense, but would no longer replace repeaters entirely. As for the Handgun, it would remain a powerful pre-Hardmode gun (still second to the Phoenix Blaster) and would remain useful against lightly armored enemies, so there is virtually no difference.

Now for the new guns. The pre-1.2 ores would be used to craft semi-automatic weapons, and the higher-leveled variants would be more powerful fully-automatic weapons. Click the spoiler for an explanation, or just look at the stats below to get an idea.
The fully-automatic weapons would be very effective against light armor, but lose effectiveness against heavy armor. The semi-automatic ones would be a middle ground between fully-automatic and repeaters, still being more effective against light armor, but not losing quite as much effectiveness against heavier targets. As these items rise through the tiers, they become slightly slower, but do more and more damage to compensate. Despite being less effective against weaker enemies, repeaters would remain the best option for attacking enemies with more defense.

Many thanks to Brutallama for the sprites!

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Cobalt Pistol
Semi-automatic
Damage: 17 (+10)
Use Time: 12 (5 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 110
DPS v. Medium: 85
DPS v. Heavy: 60
Knockback: 2.5
Velocity: 10

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Mythril Revolver
Semi-automatic
Damage: 24 (+10)
Use Time: 14 (4.3 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 124
DPS v. Medium: 103
DPS v. Heavy: 81
Knockback: 3
Velocity: 11

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Adamantite Rifle
Semi-automatic
Damage: 34 (+10)
Use Time: 16 (3.8 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 146
DPS v. Medium: 128
DPS v. Heavy: 109
Knockback: 3.5
Velocity: 12

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Palladium SMG
Fully-automatic
Damage: 14 (+10)
Use Time: 9 (6.7 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 127
DPS v. Medium: 93
DPS v. Heavy: 60
Knockback: 1
Velocity: 9.5

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Orichalcum Assault Rifle
Fully-automatic
Damage: 21 (+10)
Use Time: 10 (6 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 150
DPS v. Medium: 120
DPS v. Heavy: 90
Knockback: 1.5
Velocity: 10

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Titanium Machine Gun
Fully-automatic
Damage: 26 (+10)
Use Time: 11 (5.5 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 169
DPS v. Medium: 142
DPS v. Heavy: 115
Knockback: 2
Velocity: 10.5

This one isn't strictly necessary, or particularly useful for game progression, but I think I’ll just throw this out there while I’m at the rest of this stuff, since it wouldn't fit in anywhere else and there’s no reason not to:

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The Vulcan (Hallowed Minigun)
Fully-automatic
Damage: 19 (+10)
Use Time: 7 (8.6 shots/sec)
DPS v. Light: 206
DPS v. Medium: 163
DPS v. Heavy: 120
Knockback: 1
Velocity: 10

If you have a concern about this suggestion, make sure you read through everything thoroughly and look at the statistics more closely before voicing concern. Other than that, let me know what you think. I will listen to comments and respond as soon as I can. Thank you.

This has been successfully modded! Thanks Scironex!​
 
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I Approve but at he same time it makes me wonder if we need a hardmode upgrade for the Phoenix blaster to retain the OP blaster aspect (hell it could shoot phoenixes!)
though that would be something for hardmode hell
 
I greatly agree with this post. Phoenix blaster is a wonderful thing, but it's way too OP compared to the repeaters.

Also, could the undertaker and musket be crafted with crimtane and demonite, respectively?
 
Interesting thoughts. I don't quite understand how your dmg calcs work against heavy armor'd enemies tho. If gun A does 10 dmg per bullet and hits 4 times a second and gun B does 20 dmg per bullet and hits 2 times a second, then they should have the same dps vs all targets, no?

Also, I know you are only discussing automatic/semi-automatic weapons but what about shotguns? If I remember correctly(which is entirely possible I'm not) then isn't the shot gun acquired from the merchant the highest grade shotgun available? Wouldn't it be nice to have a burst alternative to the ammo hungry guns?
 
CycloneSP said:
Interesting thoughts. I don't quite understand how your dmg calcs work against heavy armor'd enemies tho. If gun A does 10 dmg per bullet and hits 4 times a second and gun B does 20 dmg per bullet and hits 2 times a second, then they should have the same dps vs all targets, no?

Also, I know you are only discussing automatic/semi-automatic weapons but what about shotguns? If I remember correctly(which is entirely possible I'm not) then isn't the shot gun acquired from the merchant the highest grade shotgun available? Wouldn't it be nice to have a burst alternative to the ammo hungry guns?
Click to expand...

Highest level shotty is the Tactical Shotgun.
 
CycloneSP said:
Interesting thoughts. I don't quite understand how your dmg calcs work against heavy armor'd enemies tho. If gun A does 10 dmg per bullet and hits 4 times a second and gun B does 20 dmg per bullet and hits 2 times a second, then they should have the same dps vs all targets, no?
Click to expand...
Nope. Defense subtract directly from the base damage. An enemy with 10 defense reduces damage by 5. Now, gun A does 5 damage 4 times a second, or 20 DPS, and gun B does 25 damage twice a second for 30 DPS. Slow firing weapons with high damage are more effective against armored enemies than faster ones that deal less damage.
 
SzGamer227 said:
Nope. Defense subtract directly from the base damage. An enemy with 10 defense reduces damage by 5. Now, gun A does 5 damage 4 times a second, or 20 DPS, and gun B does 25 damage twice a second for 30 DPS. Slow firing weapons with high damage are more effective against armored enemies than faster ones that deal less damage.
Click to expand...

Huh, well isn't that interesting. Feels odd, but I can't really seem to deny it when you put it that way.
 
SzGamer227 said:
Nope. Defense subtract directly from the base damage. An enemy with 10 defense reduces damage by 5. Now, gun A does 5 damage 4 times a second, or 20 DPS, and gun B does 25 damage twice a second for 30 DPS. Slow firing weapons with high damage are more effective against armored enemies than faster ones that deal less damage.
Click to expand...

That is, until you reach the point where you're only doing 1 or a few more with the high damage gun against a high defense enemy, at which point the gun that is faster and is also doing 1 due to the high defense has higher DPS.
 
Lecic said:
That is, until you reach the point where you're only doing 1 or a few more with the high damage gun against a high defense enemy, at which point the gun that is faster and is also doing 1 due to the high defense has higher DPS.
Click to expand...
That only applies to DG and prime during the day :p
 
Yes, since we also need some kind of way not to jump straight from the fast gun that's not frost moon (name?), phoniex blaster, or minishark to megashark.
 
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