Ooops my mistake
tModLoader Calamity Mod
- Thread starter Fabsol
- Start date
IDGCaptainRussia
Skeletron
I was pretty sad when I discovered LORDE was removed from the mod, thankfully there is a mod which fully restores him with music to boot:
https://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/apotheosis-friends.69009/
Just thought I had to share this incase anyone else missed the funniest joke in modded Terraria
I'd like to add that SCal is a "Super Boss" AKA A raid boss for all you RPG Rougelike players out there. It's not intended to be fought the same way as normal bosses. It's meant to be very difficult and it's not the only boss like that either.
Take a look at Ultraconyx's Void Wyvern or Elemental Unleash's Spirit of Purity Remake and you got 2 other bosses that'll test your skills the same way SCal does.
(With bullet-hell of course)
https://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/apotheosis-friends.69009/
Just thought I had to share this incase anyone else missed the funniest joke in modded Terraria
I'd like to add that SCal is a "Super Boss" AKA A raid boss for all you RPG Rougelike players out there. It's not intended to be fought the same way as normal bosses. It's meant to be very difficult and it's not the only boss like that either.
Take a look at Ultraconyx's Void Wyvern or Elemental Unleash's Spirit of Purity Remake and you got 2 other bosses that'll test your skills the same way SCal does.
(With bullet-hell of course)
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Mecha Leo
Terrarian
The Mediafire link is missing inexplicably and I have GOG Terraria, what do?
Edit: Apparently the link in Discord works, but that doesn't. Either way, you should probably put a notif of that. Anyways, time to put myself through some kind of hell I can't even comprehend.
Edit: Apparently the link in Discord works, but that doesn't. Either way, you should probably put a notif of that. Anyways, time to put myself through some kind of hell I can't even comprehend.
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sorry I dont play terraria neither I dont know how to
what?
You'll need a recording progam like OBS (the instructions will use obs). Click the plus button on Sources, select Game Capture, and choose your game. then use the start recording button, demonstrate what you want to do, and then hit stop recording. then upload the video file to somewhere like youtube and send the link
With the new planitoids version. I play on large map and when you go to hell the map is like all stretched out lines of color and its below the maps square thing. Its still playable but just pointing out that its stretched map on large. Could be the same going up to the planets(not went up yet)
ah dont worry about now it was just a mod I had to disable it now works
ARTEZUI
Skeletron Prime
Okay, cool, great, what does this solve?
If you can't make a superboss insanely difficult compared to the other bosses before it and also keep the mechanics of Terraria itself holding strong throughout the battle, then it's not even a Terraria boss by that point.
The Spirit of Purity fight doesn't function anywhere near like Terraria's normal mechanics, as you have to get a certain mount to even prove yourself capable of even fighting the thing, which entirely removes the mechanics of movement that the Terraria player, when not using a mount, has. The boss doesn't even function on the normal health system, you have a hit counter. The arena is entirely different, the way attacks are delivered are entirely different, in many aspects it's just Touhou but in Terraria. I do not consider that boss fair to the mechanics of Terraria either, although I will say that the boss is fairly built for what it is.
But my point in saying that is that the only way that boss works in Terraria is if you change the mechanics of how you even play the game itself.
Supreme Calamitas attempts to desperately shove both the mechanics of bullet hells and Terraria together, and for what it is, it's flawed, but salvageable, however I would not consider it anything like the Spirit of Purity. Please do recall that the Calamitas fight is not ENTIRELY bullet hell. She will directly attack you by firing off projectiles and blasts, and will charge at you at speeds higher than we've seen in a boss up until this point. People find those segments of the fight the easiest (although still pretty hard) due to the fact that it relies on the mechanics of Terraria in an efficient, fair manner. It lets you fight this boss in a way that you're used to, but still ramps up the difficulty insanely due to the fact that her damage alone is massive, to the point in which you cannot afford to screw up.
Then there's the other half of the fight, the bullet hells. The bullet hell segments are built so that you, as the player, CAN deal with them effectively if you just focus and slow down. This is the part of the fight I personally get hit the least, solely because Fabsol has taken the time to actually make sure that it's possible and fair, and because the bullet hell segments are designed so that you CAN weave around the shots fired at you effectively. However, the damage they deal is still absolutely astronomical, and is hard to recover from, especially in the first bullet hell segment.
Granted, issues do feel present, as Terraria's mechanics were not meant to be tested in this way. While you can get used to them easily, I feel it would have been better to adjust the fight similarly to the Spirit of Purity, where your movement is entirely adjusted TO the fight. However, the segments themselves do not seem that bad, as getting past them is quite possible if you slow down and focus.
See, these two things I don't have complaint with. The damage provides the difficulty, and I do believe that the changes in mechanics delivered, for the most part, are fair. The fact that your adrenaline takes a full 45 seconds to fill up, despite what upgrades you've given to yourself to lower that time, makes it so that you cannot rely on blazing through that fight and filling your meter solely over the course of the bullet hell segments. The fact that you are locked into an arena, which based on your difficulty, limits you further and further, forces you to take her on without running away, which is a tactic you can use for a majority of both vanilla and Calamity bosses.
But the hit counter ruins all of it for me.
See, when you already have her dealing astronomical damage to you with each attack, each one flying towards you faster than most anything you've dealt with before, and when you're already pressed on recovering from the damage dealt to you by timing your heals, making sure you avoid said damage as much as you can, placing a hit counter on you doesn't seem fair. If this was entirely bullet hell, sure. Then you can adjust to those mechanics entirely, and you wouldn't have to focus on dealing with her herself. This is why the hit counter system works in bullet hell games: all you need to worry about is dodging, not dealing damage. If the fight was entirely the segments between each bullet hell, then that'd also be fine, as you are more capable of simply improving your skill in Terraria itself, to the point where you SHOULD be able to avoid taking damage altogether, without worrying about some other segment screwing you over with absolutely massive amounts of bullets.
But it doesn't work like that. You need to deal with all of them, at points it even feels like you're dealing with it all at the SAME TIME, due to the sheer amount of projectiles within the given space you have in the small arena you have. Stacked on top of all of this, you are given a hit counter that persists throughout the entire fight, which negates the point of even healing or wearing a good set of armour, as all of that has no point anymore. You will inevitably die, lowering the damage dealt to you is pointless if you're forced to try your hardest to no-hit the fight. There's no challenge or skill in making sure you can heal at the right points, because no matter what you do, you're a step closer to death.
I feel like removing the hit counter would lower the difficulty too much, of course, as the fight is built around this system. But I personally believe the system itself is flawed.
This wouldn't ruin the fight, I do not believe, though. If you applied other kinds of restrictions, debuffs, anything to the player in place of it, the difficulty would be shifted so that it is still based around the mechanics of the game (like every other boss before it), yet still pushes you to your very limits due to the level of mastery over it you'd need. For instance, what if regeneration was entirely removed, no matter what potions you've drank, what accessories you wear, or if you have heart lamps or campfires placed, meaning you'd still have to make sure you do not take damage, as you have no possible chance of coming back from a hit without healing. To account for that, the time you have between each time you drink a health potion could be extended, possibly to either the baseline full minute or even over that, so that you cannot bank on it as much as you would have in any other fight before it, forcing you to avoid taking unnecessary damage you can't recover from yet. Damage could be increased even further to assure how drastically each hit of damage is placed on you, defense for the player could be lowered, etc.
There are plenty of things you can do to fix this issue to avoid all of this, and continue to preserve the superboss difficulty Supreme Calamitas boasts, without changing around the base mechanics of the game you've grown accustomed to for the entirety of your playthrough(s).
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IDGCaptainRussia
Skeletron
Ok first off, your thinking about this WAY too hard, honestly, my answer is simply:
You fight this boss like it's Dark Souls/Touhou, you just keep trying until you win, your going to die alot and won't beat it the first time.
Also, keep in mind that her defeat gives you enough essence to make the full armor set and more, you'd have to farm the other bosses to get enough to make the full armor sets. So to get most of the items you'd only have to beat her 2 times.
The only part I don't like about the fight is lack of delay between changing attacks which leads up to cheap hits, but that's it. (one moment she's shooting fast projectiles, the next she charges into you with no warning)
Also, if you think the damage is too high, you need to fight Void Wyvern, because in that fight, your health is capped, it can NEVER go up with no way to heal. Unlike this one.
Her fight is a very different one compared to most bosses from mods, but honestly, that helps make it standout and also, helps make it memorable.
ARTEZUI
Skeletron Prime
I'm not thinking about it too hard, I'm backing my argument. It's better than me not explaining anything about why exactly I have the opinion I do and simply repeating "she just sucks and the hit counter is bull
."Do you assume I'm not aware of that? This is the case for all, if not almost every boss in both Vanilla and Calamity. You're going to die over and over again, until you get it right. Again, my issue isn't with her attacks. I think as a Superboss, they should be punishingly difficult and require a lot of attempts to actually understand and avoid damage properly. My problem is solely with her hit counter, as I thought I had made clear.
I think this is a fair reward for a superboss, I can agree with you here. Fabsol made it so that you really shouldn't have to fight her more than once, as the fight is the most difficult challenge currently present in the entire mod. But I'm not talking about the items, I'm talking about the fight. The fight's unfair difficulty isn't just made up with the fact that you get armour you're most likely just going to need to beat Yharim, or any boss that may come after him.
I didn't say it was too high, I said I don't think it's high enough. And the mechanic in the Void Wyvern fight is something I also have a problem with, but not as much of an issue as I have here, as the fight is structured differently than this one.
I agree with you! Her fight is unique, I haven't seen anything like it in most mods, and even in most games I've played. She stands out very specifically because of her challenge and the atmosphere of her fight, along with the dialogue inclusion where you get a small insight into the very challenge you'll be facing next. However, is the hit counter truly necessary for this? I think there's so many more elements that are unique to this fight, such as the fact that it's a mixture of both an orthodox battle AND a bullet hell, along with the sheer mood and atmosphere established itself. The fight is one of the most dramatics things I've gone through in Terraria all together. But this effect is achieved entirely without the inclusion of the hit counter, the thing I was most focused on in my rebuttal. If it was removed, and compensated for, not much would change beyond the fact that you don't inevitably die in 10 hits.
IDGCaptainRussia
Skeletron
Ok, I guess I gotta sum this one up.
I'm pretty sure the hitcounter is there to prevent tanking, it may not be possible in Calamity alone. But in alot of other mods that add really OP items (Fargo's, Alchemist NPC, Engima, so on...) You can get your health and defense alot higher at this point. I had nearly 3K health and 250 defense when I went into this fight, and wasn't even taking scratches from those hits.
Fabsol I'm sure designed this so it'll kill you without the hitcounter with just calamity, and he put it in to prevent cheese with other mods, it really shows considering the boss despawns when you have god mode, and is immune to butcher.
In most fights, you'd die after 3 hits in a row on expert almost, 10 hits seems pretty generous. But SCals fight is very long. I can see your point with it.
Also keep in mind, Fabsol is not the happiest person, he has to deal with narcissists in real life and likes to reflect that pain in his mod.
EDIT: Oh one more thing
https://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/apotheosis-friends.69009/
this mod has an accessory that lets you bypass the hitcounter, just incase it keeps pissing you off
EDIT V2take2Remix:
It's not like Fabsol will hear your complaint anyways, I don't think he even reads this thread anymore, it's becoming obvious with how the Mediafire link is busted and the mod browser STILL doesn't have the latest version.
I could go on about all the reasons why this is, but I got one simple answer:
Calamity got too big, too fast for him.
People want Calamity to keep getting updates, and I mean ALOT of people, and with developers leaving the team it's overwhelming Fabsol and making him want to quit the mod.
This is a nutshell of the updates channel on the discord server, since you'll be left in the dark here if you didn't join it, and I'm shedding some light.
I'm pretty sure this is the same backstory of alot of Minecraft's largest mods too. hmm..
I'm pretty sure the hitcounter is there to prevent tanking, it may not be possible in Calamity alone. But in alot of other mods that add really OP items (Fargo's, Alchemist NPC, Engima, so on...) You can get your health and defense alot higher at this point. I had nearly 3K health and 250 defense when I went into this fight, and wasn't even taking scratches from those hits.
Fabsol I'm sure designed this so it'll kill you without the hitcounter with just calamity, and he put it in to prevent cheese with other mods, it really shows considering the boss despawns when you have god mode, and is immune to butcher.
In most fights, you'd die after 3 hits in a row on expert almost, 10 hits seems pretty generous. But SCals fight is very long. I can see your point with it.
I think the curve for this fight in deathmode is far too hard VS lower difficulties and deathmode on other bosses, keep that in mind too.
Also keep in mind, Fabsol is not the happiest person, he has to deal with narcissists in real life and likes to reflect that pain in his mod.
EDIT: Oh one more thing
https://forums.terraria.org/index.php?threads/apotheosis-friends.69009/
this mod has an accessory that lets you bypass the hitcounter, just incase it keeps pissing you off
EDIT V2take2Remix:
It's not like Fabsol will hear your complaint anyways, I don't think he even reads this thread anymore, it's becoming obvious with how the Mediafire link is busted and the mod browser STILL doesn't have the latest version.
I could go on about all the reasons why this is, but I got one simple answer:
Calamity got too big, too fast for him.
People want Calamity to keep getting updates, and I mean ALOT of people, and with developers leaving the team it's overwhelming Fabsol and making him want to quit the mod.
This is a nutshell of the updates channel on the discord server, since you'll be left in the dark here if you didn't join it, and I'm shedding some light.
I'm pretty sure this is the same backstory of alot of Minecraft's largest mods too. hmm..
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ARTEZUI
Skeletron Prime
Okay... I suppose I'm ending this myself too. We can finally close this crap.
I understand why the hit counter is there, and I do think that that's for the best that there is a system in which tanking is prevented, as it should be for almost any boss that's solely meant to be a challenge fight. However, there are minimum damage hardcaps already put into place. If Fabsol truly wanted to prevent people from being immune to things, perhaps they should implement a softcap system in which, if you would have taken less than ____ damage from an attack, you'd still take damage over said amount, but with maybe... a 50% decrease, I dunno. (I'm not a developer, I have no idea how to do the calculations to make that work yet.) That way, you aren't immune to anything, even if you should've been.
Taking 3 hits in a ROW will kill you due to your health, without taking the hit counter into account. My main problem is that, even if you do heal enough, to the point where you can take more damage, your death is still inevitable. And with the sheer amount of attacks that go around in even Revengeance mode, you're likely to take 15 hits before you even understand what's going on, if you don't die due to damage the first 10-30 times you fight her before the second bullet hell even starts, due to the fact Sepulcher exists, nevertheless Deathmode.
ah okay that just excuses everything, supreme calamitas should just one-shot you then
I may have said this before, but I don't think this fight is screwed in development. It's a proper challenge in almost every aspect, I just don't personally agree with the hit counter. I think the fight can be made fairly difficult for it's intended challenge in a different way, while still keeping the superboss status. It should push you, and shove you around, over and over again. It should come close to even breaking you if you can't deal with what's in front of you. But it shouldn't be a weight on your shoulders.
Eventually, this fight isn't going to be optional, as the planned bosses around it are going to demote her from "superboss" to "mandatory fight," while more difficult challenges await you after her fight. If the player is forced to go through this fight, it shouldn't be designed in such a way that risks crushing the fun out of it.
IDGCaptainRussia
Skeletron
As much as I don't agree with the hitcounter.
Fabsol is not going to remove it, and I doubt he'll even talk to you.
EDIT: Consider the last time he was on was 2 weeks ago. But he's still active in the discord.
Balance wise, he could have done what Sprite of Purity (not the rematch) does, where the damage you take is based on health&defense, but I doubt that'll happen.
So just install that mod I linked in the previous post, make the accessory that lets you FYou the hitcounter, and enjoy the fight your way.
Fabsol is not going to remove it, and I doubt he'll even talk to you.
EDIT: Consider the last time he was on was 2 weeks ago. But he's still active in the discord.
Balance wise, he could have done what Sprite of Purity (not the rematch) does, where the damage you take is based on health&defense, but I doubt that'll happen.
So just install that mod I linked in the previous post, make the accessory that lets you FYou the hitcounter, and enjoy the fight your way.
ARTEZUI
Skeletron Prime
Personally I'm not one to want to cheese this mod... but I'll be taking the one you suggested into account and seeing if it's any more fair in experience. Didn't know that existed. I'd prefer to have some mechanics shifted around to compensate for the removal of it, but... I dunno how to do that.
I'm aware of what's going down on the Discord. It's rather sad, actually... part of me believes that the addition of that server may have caused this. As opposed to the thread, even though the occasional argument/drama starts, it isn't anywhere near as massive or exhausting as it is there.
Just crossing fingers that things get better for them.
I'm aware of what's going down on the Discord. It's rather sad, actually... part of me believes that the addition of that server may have caused this. As opposed to the thread, even though the occasional argument/drama starts, it isn't anywhere near as massive or exhausting as it is there.
Just crossing fingers that things get better for them.
Melstar
Official Terrarian
Her hitcounter will be removed when she becomes a normal boss.
ARTEZUI
Skeletron Prime
IDGCaptainRussia
Skeletron
Then Yharim gets a hit counter lol
Well, atleast the team still keeps us up to date here, even if Fabsol no longer shows.
Vaikyia
Dungeon Spirit
What was happening that wasn't caused by the discord at all, just some development troubles at the time. Things were slow, communication was low, and some devs just weren't happy about it.
I can safely say that things are much better now.
(Also i'm unsure if a boss will get a hit-counter ever again, there aren't any plans for one and after seeing feedback it might just be avoided all-throughout most likely)
IDGCaptainRussia
Skeletron
The mod is mega popular and the discord has around 15000 people in it.
Did anyone expect things would work perfectly fine?
I wanna requote something from before:
The drive to keep the mod going keeps it alive no matter what, I mean it's still getting updates after 2 years, and shows no signs of really stopping.
All this from a guy who just wanted to make a post-moonlord worm boss lol
Did anyone expect things would work perfectly fine?
I wanna requote something from before:
This also goes over to all the current devs as well, but Fabsol got the bulk of it.
The drive to keep the mod going keeps it alive no matter what, I mean it's still getting updates after 2 years, and shows no signs of really stopping.
All this from a guy who just wanted to make a post-moonlord worm boss lol
