Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Is it just me or is object placing too slow? Even with no speed buffs, you can't place platforms or blocks at your run speed. Also with building speed buff (there's only two) you still cant place blocks as fast as you run with hermes boots or the like.

I don't think increasing build speed would mess with the balance of the game and would be a nice quality of life change for when you want to do some terraforming or building platform bridges

Also, on another note, why does the smart cursor not do anything anymore when placing blocks? When i play tmodloader without any mods (which runs on an older version of the game) you can use smart cursor to fill in gaps much more easily, which i especially like to do with dirt on the surface. But in 1.4 smart cursor is the exact same as not using it for the purpose of placing blocks, is there some reason for this?
 
In fact, armor that only gives defense is already class neutral. The same applies to Pumpkin Armor, which neutrally increases the damage of all classes. In fact, King Slime is the first boss in the game and Ninja Armor pretends to be neutral armor, but only increases the chance of critical damage. There is no armor at this stage that gives extra Minions, but if Ninja Armor was also increasing neutral damage, just like the pumpkin one, the Summoner would have a reason to wear it. The Crystal Assassin's armor does increase natural damage, but at this stage we have access to armor that already gives additional mines. However, in the King Slime stage, where no such armor is available, simply picking up the damage is something that might come in handy for a Summoner.
 
MrD108 said:
In fact, armor that only gives defense is already class neutral. The same applies to Pumpkin Armor, which neutrally increases the damage of all classes. In fact, King Slime is the first boss in the game and Ninja Armor pretends to be neutral armor, but only increases the chance of critical damage. There is no armor at this stage that gives extra Minions, but if Ninja Armor was also increasing neutral damage, just like the pumpkin one, the Summoner would have a reason to wear it. The Crystal Assassin's armor does increase natural damage, but at this stage we have access to armor that already gives additional mines. However, in the King Slime stage, where no such armor is available, simply picking up the damage is something that might come in handy for a Summoner.
Click to expand...
Why would you need summon armor at king slime tier when 80% of the time you don't even have a minion yet? and you probably don't have a whip either.
 
qwerty3.14 said:
Frost isn't classless it's melee and ranger only literally the worst two classes to combo with each other.
Click to expand...
The worst two to combo are actually mage and summoner. Both require a lot of investment in stats from armor and effects from accessories and start clashing with each other. Forbidden Armor for example fails to provide either class a respectable benefit compared to single class armors like Spider or Mage Adamantite.

Not that Frost is much better in that regard, to be honest. From my experience it always was a tanky Ranger armor with QoL lighting.
 
I feel like you guys are just ever so slightly missing my point.

Of course damage boosting armors available pre-Bee are helpful to summoners, because that’s the only available option. They are also helpful to Melee, who doesn’t have an armor until killing the Worm Bosses at the earliest, or for Mages who might want more defense than offered by a gem robe. But try adding explicit summoner boosts to these like extra minions, and you’ll see my point.

My point is that for the majority of the game, summoner wouldn’t really fit into a generalist armor. I used Crystal Assassin as an example, but that would also apply to any generalist or multiclass armors that could exist after it until the end of the game, and even before it to a certain extent, such as Forbidden, most OOA armors, etc. Crystal Armor being underwhelming to begin with doesn’t change that fact.Same thing would apply to Summoner armors vs Pumpkin or Ninja if Summoner had an early game armor. I’m not going to restate why, as you guys have heard like 20 times and I know you want to hear it about as much as I want to type it out again.

And yes, I admit that the existing general armors are a bit stronger than I gave them credit for, but that was not my main point.
 
CrabBar said:
The worst two to combo are actually mage and summoner. Both require a lot of investment in stats from armor and effects from accessories and start clashing with each other. Forbidden Armor for example fails to provide either class a respectable benefit compared to single class armors like Spider or Mage Adamantite.

Not that Frost is much better in that regard, to be honest. From my experience it always was a tanky Ranger armor with QoL lighting.
Click to expand...
The reason I say ranger/melee is the worst combo is because you can't really hit things with a ranged weapon at the same time as a melee weapon, summoner is naturaly good for hybriding because minions attack indipendently from your main weapons, and mage has a few lingering weapons like the nimbus rod and magnet sphere. Alternatively you can switch weapon types if you run out of mana. There is almost no reason for a ranger to switch to a melee weapon and vise versa.

If you want a 'tanky' ranger palladium does that job much better than frost.

If you want to do a magic summoner hybrid you can do something like hallowed/spider/apprentice, which progresses into hallowed/spooky/dark artist. You still get a lot of magic offense bonuses. These builds actually have better raw offensive magic stats then the spectre mask set.
 
Make duke fishron tornadoes not deal contact dmg for a short amount of time after spawning to prevent cheap hits. Duke fishron is a boss that is almost 100% skill based except for his sharknados/cthulhunados that will instantly deal contact dmg when spawning which can lead into some pretty unfair and cheap hits. Maybe make it do contact dmg 1 or 2 seconds after spawning (not when it fully emerges but when it starts growing/rising) to make the fight fairer and more skill based.
 
Sia_Later said:
Is it just me or is object placing too slow? Even with no speed buffs, you can't place platforms or blocks at your run speed. Also with building speed buff (there's only two) you still cant place blocks as fast as you run with hermes boots or the like.

I don't think increasing build speed would mess with the balance of the game and would be a nice quality of life change for when you want to do some terraforming or building platform bridges
Click to expand...

This is a good point that I never thought to bring up myself but I definitely agree with.

I personally always keep Builder Potions set aside for when I need to build an arena or bridge. The improved placement speed doesn’t make it perfect, but it’ll help, and the increased range helps too. Also helps that Builder Potions are easy to find in the wild and relatively cheap to make. Especially now that in 1.4 they last 45 minutes, more than enough time to make even a complicated, expansive arena. Hope this tip helps.

AquaNathan said:
Make duke fishron tornadoes not deal contact dmg for a short amount of time after spawning to prevent cheap hits. Duke fishron is a boss that is almost 100% skill based except for his sharknados/cthulhunados that will instantly deal contact dmg when spawning which can lead into some pretty unfair and cheap hits. Maybe make it do contact dmg 1 or 2 seconds after spawning (not when it fully emerges but when it starts growing/rising)
Click to expand...

I noticed this too, and it gets annoying if you fight Fishron without a bridge or in the air. Note that if you’re close enough to the ground that the Nados will spawn on the ground below you instead of on top of you, so you can manipulate this to avoid cheap hits, but you shouldn’t have to.
 
Ilmarinen said:
I agree. Some of the meteor equipment on the other hand certainly could stand a buff of some kind. Specifically the swords. They need something, I'm not sure what but something. It wouldn't have hurt if meteorite had gotten two or three pieces of other equipment as well.
Now meteorite the biome absolutely needed a buff. View attachment 290701
Click to expand...
This isn’t even mentioning the indisputably worst meteor item, the Meteor Shots.
 
Meteor Shot could be fixed by giving it the Chlorophyte Arrow treatment. A single pierce isn’t nearly enough for it to be considered crowd control, so making it bounce between targets would be much more helpful, especially against Skeletron or Wall of Flesh. Of course, to keep it from being too strong, it should have less bounces than Chlorophyte Arrows and maybe dealing less damage with each ricochet.
 
Derpling Ω said:
This isn’t even mentioning the indisputably worst meteor item, the Meteor Shots.
Click to expand...
meteor shots are still usable with a select few guns like the sniper rifle, while the phaseblades have absolutly no use.

whoneedsnamestbh said:
Meteor Shot could be fixed by giving it the Chlorophyte Arrow treatment. A single pierce isn’t nearly enough for it to be considered crowd control, so making it bounce between targets would be much more helpful, especially against Skeletron or Wall of Flesh. Of course, to keep it from being too strong, it should have less bounces than Chlorophyte Arrows and maybe dealing less damage with each ricochet.
Click to expand...
The main issue with meteor shots is they cause iFrames and basicly every hardmode gun and the best prehardmode guns shoot either too fast or are shotguns which causes them to perform worse than when using musket balls.
 
qwerty3.14 said:
meteor shots are still usable with a select few guns like the sniper rifle, while the phaseblades have absolutly no use.
Click to expand...

It’s such a waste too, Phaseblades are the coolest selection of prehardmode swords and they’re literally outclassed by swords you can get pre-boss such as the Ice Blade.

I think the same can be said to many of the pre Hardmode swords - Light’s Bane, Blade of Grass, Night’s Edge; even all the Ore swords. I think prehardmode nonprojecrile swords overall deserve a buff as they are just not viable for how difficult they are to use to fight.
 
qwerty3.14 said:
The main issue with meteor shots is they cause iFrames and basicly every hardmode gun and the best prehardmode guns shoot either too fast or are shotguns which causes them to perform worse than when using musket balls.
Click to expand...

Sorry for duplicate comments, I couldn’t figure out how to edit quotes into an existing comment.

Giving meteor shot multiple bounces instead of piercing would both prevent them from activating i frames and give them a greater niche in prehardmode. Being the only unique bullet in pre-hardmode not counting Silver, I think it could use a bigger role versus prehardmode bosses anyway.

It could maybe be given the minion treatment, but I don’t know how applicable this is to bullets. AFAIK, each separate minion has its own hitrate, but you have a max of 11 minions at once and adding this to an abundance of bullets would cause preformance issues. I’m pretty sure Leinfors said so in this thread, although I can’t find it.

Though, that makes me curious as to why a similar function works with Luminite Bullets but not with Meteor. Luminite are notable for their infinite pierce, but they both don’t initiate iFrames at least to a noticeable extent nor do they cause preformance issues despite being flashier than Meteor Shot.
 
For buffing meteor shots, they could make it able to inflict "on fire" since it's from meteors which are "warm to the touch"

Edit: "On fire" debuff not "burning"
 
Last edited:
Derpling Ω said:
Debuffs are not strong enough for that right now, unless you mean the actual Burning debuff and not on-fire, which would make Cursed Bullets even less useful.
Click to expand...
it might still be useful, and would make there be a reason to prefer it over silver bullets

But, i'm open to suggestions, what would you buff about it?
 
Sia_Later said:
it might still be useful, and would make there be a reason to prefer it over silver bullets

But, i'm open to suggestions, what would you buff about it?
Click to expand...
I would just give them localimmunity like Luminite Bullets. They can only bounce or pierce so nothing janky would happen from it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom