Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

[AquaNathan]

Again, not too sure if it is too late for this suggestion but I'm making it anyways :

Target Dummies

Imo target dummies are a very bad way of dps testing weapons as 1. weapons don't home in on target dummies 2. target dummies are very small so aoe weapons dps will be way too low 3. minions can't attack the target dummy 4. special effects by certian weapons won't spawn such as phantasm arrows and horseman's blade projectiles.

Imo target dummies need a whole overhaul to be more consistant due to the problems listed above as I have almost never needed to damage test weapons on dummies.

 

[Ilmarinen]

Again, not too sure if it is too late for this suggestion but I'm making it anyways :

Target Dummies

Imo target dummies are a very bad way of dps testing weapons as 1. weapons don't home in on target dummies 2. target dummies are very small so aoe weapons dps will be way too low 3. minions can't attack the target dummy 4. special effects by certian weapons won't spawn such as phantasm arrows and horseman's blade projectiles.

Imo target dummies need a whole overhaul to be more consistant due to the problems listed above as I have almost never needed to damage test weapons on dummies.

I figure people only use target dummies for decoration and for TMEC stuff anyway.

 

[Pigman Δ]

it is too late but i'd like to see this in a mod:
Right clicking a dummy brings up the Dummy Menu
Options: Homing (y/n) Size (number) Minion Aggro (y/n) Defence (number) and more stuff like a few AIs to select (the dummy ghost would become visible and use that AI) and damage (only if it had an AI enabled)

 

[ShinyLegendary]

Blade Staff does not at all need a buff to damage.

As it stands now, it appears weak when you look at the stats, because you look at the raw stats. But when you consider that you’re hitting at an absolutely enormous rate with Blades. Each Blade is capable of hitting around 4-6 times per second based off rough estimate, giving them fair sum of damage just around that of Spiders - maybe slightly lower, which is fair because Blades are airborne.

However, due to the way blades work, the more stats you pile on, the more busted they become. A good summoner build and reforges could bring their damage from 6 to 9. After which, the Snapthorn, available pre mech, brings this from 9 to 15. The Durendal is an even bigger boost. 15 damage while hitting at that high of a speed is, needless to say, a lot of damage. As you take advantage of whip tags, ichor or other effects, the Blades become an absolute beast.

I thought the same about Blades before I tried them out, but in practice, they are extremely potent, and the most reliable minion up until the equally awesome Sanguines come into play.

Don’t disagree with moving them to the Hallowed Mimic pool though, I mean not only is it a lot more fair than being a rare drop from a rarer enemy, but it just makes sense. It has the same design scheme as Hallowed Mimic drops (which, mind you, is the only set of Hallowed items aside from the Blade Staff), it gives it the perfect spot in Hardmode progression, it gives Hallowed Mimic its missing 5th drop, and, well, Flying Knife.

I personally like to believe it was designed as a 5th drop for Hallowed Mimics to begin with because of all of that, and was either placed in Enchanted Sword’s drop pool as a bit of an oversight or was moved there for some ungodly reason.

Agreed on the blade staff. It is quite strong, especially when combined with ichor.

I think the blade staff fits being dropped from enchanted swords, because the blade staff summons flying magic swords.

 

[SsIras]

Honestly... well i don´t think anyone will even care:

1. I find most of the changes to be intersting, the wings one is the most controversial, maybe just make so those wings don´t have the slow fall effect?

2. I just think that pre hardmode... need more items, mostly on areas where there is little reason to explore, like the ice and ocean biomes, i don´t understand why there are so many water related items, when you actually manage to get them all most likely you don´t need anymore, those items should be more common drops, there also too many lava related items for the little time on the game that they may be useful, while most of the ice items are just like the sky loot, if you go there at very earlier pre hardmode they are useful, if not they are already useless.

Desert actually got some cool stuff this time around.

3. Item progression needs some changes, i don´t even bother doing the "moons" anymore, most items are just bad even if compared with post plantera items and terrible if compared to pillars, old one army has some intersting stuff.

4. Ranged, Summon and Magic "classes" need more defese on armor, even if costs you damage, it´s just too annoying gameplay on master mode scaling.

5. Is there even an point in the " + 20 mana" on acessories other than annoying players?

6. Mining needs some changes, i don´t even see the point of mining for the lesser ores anymore other than upgrading the pickaxe, i just skip to titanium or adamantium armor, which by themselves are of little use, same for the Queen Slime armor, gems could have more use too.


Also... i posted this on the bug section, but when my game crashes, the display goes off and won´t turn on unless i reset the computer, terraria shows no error log.

1. The sky wings are actually pretty balanced in my opinion, horseshoe was always the worst drop you could get from sky islands (even though they're really good), the wings might arguably be the best single loot from sky islands, but they don't have a tinker chain, and balloon tinkers are much better. I understand the controversy because it does have a few "broken" abilities and is better than both the balloon and horseshoe individually, but I really don't think it is too broken.

2. Agreed. I think that's a design fault of the game in general, that hardmode got way too much love and pre-hardmode got none. But to be fair, at least in my experience, part of this is because I don't play pre-hardmode enough, since hardmode offers a lot more option to play with, I tend to only do challenged and builds once I'm well into hardmode, and a lot of pre-hardmode items gain better alternatives there, so they have no place to shine.

3. Also agreed, this was very discussed here in the past, and I think there is a good chance some of these items get buffed. I still like doing these events, you may not need them, but you also don't need to speedrun the game every time.

4. Yeah... the problem might be on mastermode, these classes were designed this way and should stay like that, I may agree that summoner might need a buff tho, but I also think this was talked enough already.

5. What do you mean here?

6. Also talked about before.

 

[AquaNathan]

Agreed on the blade staff. It is quite strong, especially when combined with ichor.

I think the blade staff fits being dropped from enchanted swords, because the blade staff summons flying magic swords.

I do agree with your reasoning for it to make sense to drop form enchanted swords but i think something that should be talked about the blade staff is the drop chance, which is INSANELY low for a rare enemy that a ton of people barely ever see with a drop rate of 1/35 (2.86%)

 

[whoneedsnamestbh]

I do agree with your reasoning for it to make sense to drop form enchanted swords but i think something that should be talked about the blade staff is the drop chance, which is INSANELY low for a rare enemy that a ton of people barely ever see with a drop rate of 1/35 (2.86%)

There’s that, and then there’s the fact that it just fits with the Hallowed Mimic *better*.

The color and design scheme matches the Hallowed Mimic drops, and the Blade Staff and Hallowed Mimic drops are the only set of Hallowed items to have this appearance. It fits the Enchanted Sword somewhat, but really it just fits the Hallowed Mimic twice as well.

It gives it a slightly smarter place in balance, as you have to gear up with Spider loot in order to kill Hallowed Mimics for it. It would also make Hallowed Mimic’s drop pool have the same amount of items as Corrupt and Crimson.

Lastly, Corrupt Hammer and Crimson Axe do not have weapon drops. If they did, it would make logical sense for it to be kept as an Enchanted Sword drop and maybe its drop rate boosted, but they don’t. Moving it to Hallowed Mimic’s pool clears up an inconsistency here as well

Moving it to the Hallowed Mimic’s drop pool just fits so well that I fail to see any real downside to it. Maybe it makes the Stormbow harder to get, but that’s just fair as then its the same rarity as the good weapons from the other biome mimics.

 

[AquaNathan]

There’s that, and then there’s the fact that it just fits with the Hallowed Mimic *better*.

The color and design scheme matches the Hallowed Mimic drops, and the Blade Staff and Hallowed Mimic drops are the only set of Hallowed items to have this appearance. It fits the Enchanted Sword somewhat, but really it just fits the Hallowed Mimic twice as well.

It gives it a slightly smarter place in balance, as you have to gear up with Spider loot in order to kill Hallowed Mimics for it. It would also make Hallowed Mimic’s drop pool have the same amount of items as Corrupt and Crimson.

Lastly, Corrupt Hammer and Crimson Axe do not have weapon drops. If they did, it would make logical sense for it to be kept as an Enchanted Sword drop and maybe its drop rate boosted, but they don’t. Moving it to Hallowed Mimic’s pool clears up an inconsistency here as well

Moving it to the Hallowed Mimic’s drop pool just fits so well that I fail to see any real downside to it. Maybe it makes the Stormbow harder to get, but that’s just fair as then its the same rarity as the good weapons from the other biome mimics.

Hmm ye I see your points, the fact that enchanted sword currently has an exclusive drop where the crimson/corruption varients dont.

Hallowed mimics I guess could use it as the only good weapon it offers is stormbow which is undeniably broken still while the rest are mediocre at best and u brought up a good point with them having similar colour designs so yes I can now see why you and other people have that reasoning and it would sort out the issues brought up being the low drop chance and that the enchanted sword is the only biome weapon enemy to have an exclusive drop.

 

[qwerty3.14]

Okay, how is the Pumpkin and Frost Moon more difficult than Duke Fishron and Martian Madness? I do die in them a lot, but I am able to get good weapons from them a lot easier at least. You can use these moon weapons for Golem, too. Also the tsunami is a ranged weapon, while the razorpine is a mage weapon. The chain gun is a post-Plantera weapon, while the xenopopper is a post-Golem weapon, so the chain gun still has its uses. I found the chain gun quite fun and useful in pre-Golem, and it helped me take down Duke Fishron in Master Mode.

Also the Martian Madness is far more difficult than the Frost and Pumpkin Moon in my opinion.

I didn't say anything about the pumpkin moon, I think it's fine. The weapons are decent if faught right after plantera and even if you do it later you can still get some use out of the non weapon drops.

Just because the tsunami is ranged and the razorpine/blizzard staff are magic that doesn't mean they can't be compared, you can completely change your gear in seconds. They all serve the same role as a single target dps boss killer.

The frost moon is definitely harder than martian madness, you have Santa tanks and ice queens with sporadic attack patterns and you can end up fighting more than one. Compare this to the martian saucer which has an extremly predictable attack pattern and you only ever fight one at a time.

Duke fishron is even more predictable than the martian saucers

Again non of these are bad weapons, its just that there are better weapons from other sources that are less annoying to get.

 

[Leinfors]

I personally like to believe it was designed as a 5th drop for Hallowed Mimics to begin with because of all of that, and was either placed in Enchanted Sword’s drop pool as a bit of an oversight or was moved there for some ungodly reason.

Nope. Blade Staff was originally conceptualized, from day 1, as an Enchanted Sword drop.

 

[AquaNathan]

Nope. Blade Staff was originally conceptualized, from day 1, as an Enchanted Sword drop.

Will the drop chance be raised in any way though as I don't really mind by who it drops between the mimic or the enchanted sword(though i don't like the fact that the other evil biome weapons currently don't have any exclusive drops) but rather how rare it is to get as 1/35 (2.86%) from a rare enemy is unreasonable as summoner already has to grind for enough stuff?

 

[terrariaconta]

1. The sky wings are actually pretty balanced in my opinion, horseshoe was always the worst drop you could get from sky islands (even though they're really good), the wings might arguably be the best single loot from sky islands, but they don't have a tinker chain, and balloon tinkers are much better. I understand the controversy because it does have a few "broken" abilities and is better than both the balloon and horseshoe individually, but I really don't think it is too broken.

2. Agreed. I think that's a design fault of the game in general, that hardmode got way too much love and pre-hardmode got none. But to be fair, at least in my experience, part of this is because I don't play pre-hardmode enough, since hardmode offers a lot more option to play with, I tend to only do challenged and builds once I'm well into hardmode, and a lot of pre-hardmode items gain better alternatives there, so they have no place to shine.

3. Also agreed, this was very discussed here in the past, and I think there is a good chance some of these items get buffed. I still like doing these events, you may not need them, but you also don't need to speedrun the game every time.

4. Yeah... the problem might be on mastermode, these classes were designed this way and should stay like that, I may agree that summoner might need a buff tho, but I also think this was talked enough already.

5. What do you mean here?

6. Also talked about before.

5. It´s just not useful, even on pre hard mode, it´s really annoying to "reforge" and get + mana.

They are nice to have in the underworld. If you accidently fall in lava while building a bridge, or a lava slime drops lava on you, they can protect you I believe. I go in the underworld a lot.

Uhh, hello? The Frost and Pumpkin Moon give great loot.

The Chain Gun, Razorpine, and Blizzard Staff are all great weapons you can get from the Frost Moon.

The Pumpkin Moon gives the Horseman's Blade, which you need for the Zenith, and the Necromantic Scroll and Raven Staff are nice for summoner too.

There are more materials I haven't mentioned, but you get my point.

Ranger and mage are powerful enough already, I don't think they need more buffs.

I mean, i understand they work nice for what we need them for, but we ended with too many lava related items that do similar things and we get at similar places and honestly at a point where not falling on lava is a lot easier.

I agree on the summon stuff, the other ones are barely worth it on my opinion, rather just skip to pillars.

They need balance, not buffs, playing on master mode is just annoying when you are paper thin, though you could argue that it´s master mode that need some balacing and not the classes, like mister SsIras said above.

Almost all Ice Chest items are objectively better than those found in Golden Chests, there is Ice everywhere so you have Frostburn arrows super early on, and there is even the chance of getting Ice Cream as an Early Tier 2 well fed item. What else is needed?

Ocean is free chests early on, and is the only way to get the Angler. There is not much more you could add before you start messing with game progression.

Still, with the exception of the ice skates... they are either very early weapons or "ice versions" of golden chest items, go there at the beginning, get a chest, only go back to some meh hardmode loot.

I mean... most of what you get at water chests... would be useful on the ocean biome, but you already did the ocean biome, you have no reason to go back... or at least to go back into water, very early on you already probably have enough mobility upgrades so water is not an issue.

 

[Ilmarinen]

I didn't say anything about the pumpkin moon, I think it's fine. The weapons are decent if faught right after plantera and even if you do it later you can still get some use out of the non weapon drops.

Just because the tsunami is ranged and the razorpine/blizzard staff are magic that doesn't mean they can't be compared, you can completely change your gear in seconds. They all serve the same role as a single target dps boss killer.

The frost moon is definitely harder than martian madness, you have Santa tanks and ice queens with sporadic attack patterns and you can end up fighting more than one. Compare this to the martian saucer which has an extremly predictable attack pattern and you only ever fight one at a time.

Duke fishron is even more predictable than the martian saucers

Again non of these are bad weapons, its just that there are better weapons from other sources that are less annoying to get.

The biggest problem with the frost moon is that its drops aren't as reliable as the drops from the pumpkin moon. PM gives you a ton of spooky wood at early waves and once you make it to the last wave you're guaranteed a good drop per major kill. The FM on the other hand has no spooky wood analogue and drops are still not reliable at the final wave which is already harder to get to.
This was fine back before 1.3 when FM was basically end game. Now... it's pretty east to just ignore it and do something else. Unless you're playing at Christmas then it's practically mandatory for thematic reasons.

 

[qwerty3.14]

Nope. Blade Staff was originally conceptualized, from day 1, as an Enchanted Sword drop.

It'd still make more sense as a hallowed mimic drop even if that wasn't the original intention.

 

[Void-Prime]

The Cosmic Car Key should be changed to a "main drop" to a "side drop" basically that instead of the CCK being dropped instead of another Saucer drop, it has a chance to drop along with it, the Ufo mount feels pretty slow for boss fights so im pretty sure some people are annoyed for getting it over something actually more useful like the Influx Waver

 

[Ilmarinen]

The Cosmic Car Key should be changed to a "main drop" to a "side drop" basically that instead of the CCK being dropped instead of another Saucer drop, it has a chance to drop along with it, the Ufo mount feels pretty slow for boss fights so im pretty sure some people are annoyed for getting it over something actually more useful like the Influx Waver

My favorite Martian drop is the Scutlix mount and it's the one that's the biggest pain to farm. Not as bad as the reindeer bells from the FM though.

 

[MrD108]

Nimbus Rod and Crimson Rod should be Summoner's weapons, namely Sentinels.
World Evil offers nothing useful to summoners, and the Clouds fit perfectly with the role of sentinels.
Additionally, the Nimbus Rod cloud should only use ½ of the sentry slot so that you can still challenge two at a time.

All guards should also have a buff icon, extended standing time and the option to dismiss them yourself.

 

[marulok]

Nimbus Rod and Crimson Rod should be Summoner's weapons, namely Sentinels.
World Evil offers nothing useful to summoners, and the Clouds fit perfectly with the role of sentinels.
Additionally, the Nimbus Rod cloud should only use ½ of the sentry slot so that you can still challenge two at a time.

All guards should also have a buff icon, extended standing time and the option to dismiss them yourself.

Not really, IMO. We already have enough sentries in my opinion and the most important thing to do is fix the existing ones instead of adding more.

 

[The Milkmann]

Nope. Blade Staff was originally conceptualized, from day 1, as an Enchanted Sword drop.

I still find it strange that it shares its color palette and general appearance with the other mimic drops, instead of it being closer in appearance to Excalibur (which is way cooler, might make a texture pack for this)

 

[Leinfors]

I still find it strange that it shares its color palette and general appearance with the other mimic drops, instead of it being closer in appearance to Excalibur (which is way cooler, might make a texture pack for this)

Truly just coincidence. The artists do regularly refer to pre-existing color palettes for new content, but pink/blue is hardly exclusive to the mimic drops, but frequent across much of the Hallow.