![Toxophilite [East]](/data/avatars/m/166/166394.jpg?1584244058){kind=avatar}
Here's the thing, many of the newer additions were brilliant, so there's no way I could think that. In fact, the devs took a brilliant idea that qwerty3.14 had, but made it 100x better; making pre-Molten Tier comparable to Bee Gear for Summoner Class. The problem is trying to balance that idea, when you have 47 other brilliant things you need to iron out right beside it. It's called overload. The gais at Relogic are brilliant, but they're also human. Me recognizing that they are humans beings with limitations, isn't a suggestion that I know better, it's called empathy, you should try it some time.
*sips*There's no cycle here, you're just drawing shortsighted conclusions to fit some narrative you've drawn up about me. As you can see above, I've just made you privy to new information.
I mean, that's obvious. I don't have an issue with you or anyone inserting themselves into a discussion, but doing so & then asking the person entertaining your curiosity "what are you on about?" is just silly. You asked a question, that I didn't have to answer, but I actually over-answered. We've had enough exchanges to where I'm still unsure why you're trying to insult my intelligence, but if it continues, I'll just move on to something more worth my time.
I mean, congratulations? I never claimed to be perfect, so kudos to you, figuring out situational awareness? Thank goodness for our differences, right?
Are you using the "majority belief system" argument again? Do I have to retort with the slavery, or holocaust defense, or are we good here?
Not really, I've learned to divorce myself from products or I.P.s that don't align with my tastes. Terraria is a great game with great people, but that doesn't mean that this can't change. It'd be unfortunate, because it'd be a rare, special relationship between the fans & creators, that ended up being destroyed by the actual fans & not the developers. I'm hoping that doesn't happen, because Terraria can be a shining example of this relationship done right.
I trust the devs immensely, but people make terrible choices when they're stressed, overworked & exhausted. A LOT of the stuff in 1.4.1 were bad calls & from what I've seen, most of those changes were from fan suggestions, which I've warned the entire forums was dangerous from the beginning, when they stopped realizing we had an actual deadline.
Out of context, yeah, I do. How about this though... do you realize how many pages the Terraria Wiki is & how complex? Terraria has enough content in it to fill three Encyclopedias, but no tutorial. If that doesn't explain to you why that's a failure in design, I don't know what will convince you.
Thanks for that deep history lesson professor...
This isn't about personal taste, it's about good general game design. The amount of information you can gather in 1.4 in comparison to 1.3.5 in the Bestiary alone, attests to the vacuum that was left, considering the sheer amount of content the game offered. This is just content, we haven't even touched on the rules of how to build valid housing, or how a player should gather information on what they should be doing next. This isn't really even a real discussion, because we even have tooltips on the loading screens. The lacking of teaching a player fundmentals was very apparent, there's nothing to discuss here.
Normally I'd agree, but some of the 1.4.1 changes were pretty questionable, which leads to believe it might've been rushed. Keep in mind, we have a deadline this time around, it's not like how things used to be.
True, but there are several issues with this incident that lead me to believe these are spoiled, unchecked complaints.
That's great, but most rudimentary builders won't have an issue with NPC Happiness, because it doesn't conflict with basic housing structures.
Well, when Leinfors, for example implemented several things I repeatedly warned against, issues arised. I don't have any magic powers or abilities to make things others suggest go wrong, I just know enough about the game to understand when something will cause conflict. These guys are making big-brain plays with this game, but we can't possibly expect every choice to be brilliant, when you have a deadline. At a certain point, some things are just to risky too mess around with when you have 47 other tasks to complete. I shouldn't have to explain this to another intelligent person, but here we are.
may I say 3 things:Here's the thing, many of the newer additions were brilliant, so there's no way I could think that. In fact, the devs took a brilliant idea that qwerty3.14 had, but made it 100x better; making pre-Molten Tier comparable to Bee Gear for Summoner Class. The problem is trying to balance that idea, when you have 47 other brilliant things you need to iron out right beside it. It's called overload. The gais at Relogic are brilliant, but they're also human. Me recognizing that they are humans beings with limitations, isn't a suggestion that I know better, it's called empathy, you should try it some time.
There's no cycle here, you're just drawing shortsighted conclusions to fit some narrative you've drawn up about me. As you can see above, I've just made you privy to new information.
I mean, that's obvious. I don't have an issue with you or anyone inserting themselves into a discussion, but doing so & then asking the person entertaining your curiosity "what are you on about?" is just silly. You asked a question, that I didn't have to answer, but I actually over-answered. We've had enough exchanges to where I'm still unsure why you're trying to insult my intelligence, but if it continues, I'll just move on to something more worth my time.
I mean, congratulations? I never claimed to be perfect, so kudos to you, figuring out situational awareness? Thank goodness for our differences, right?
Are you using the "majority belief system" argument again? Do I have to retort with the slavery, or holocaust defense, or are we good here?
Not really, I've learned to divorce myself from products or I.P.s that don't align with my tastes. Terraria is a great game with great people, but that doesn't mean that this can't change. It'd be unfortunate, because it'd be a rare, special relationship between the fans & creators, that ended up being destroyed by the actual fans & not the developers. I'm hoping that doesn't happen, because Terraria can be a shining example of this relationship done right.
However, if we show that it doesn't matter who has the wheel, the fans or the developers, it'll prove that the abuse will be there no matter who has a say in the matter & we'll miss a very limited & important window. I understand the weight of that opportunity, but I don't think anyone else does & just have to accept that. Terraria is amazing, but so are other games out there.
I trust the devs immensely, but people make terrible choices when they're stressed, overworked & exhausted. A LOT of the stuff in 1.4.1 were bad calls & from what I've seen, most of those changes were from fan suggestions, which I've warned the entire forums was dangerous from the beginning, when they stopped realizing we had an actual deadline.
Out of context, yeah, I do. How about this though... do you realize how many pages the Terraria Wiki is & how complex? Terraria has enough content in it to fill three Encyclopedias, but no tutorial. If that doesn't explain to you why that's a failure in design, I don't know what will convince you.
Thanks for that deep history lesson professor...
This isn't about personal taste, it's about good general game design. The amount of information you can gather in 1.4 in comparison to 1.3.5 in the Bestiary alone, attests to the vacuum that was left, considering the sheer amount of content the game offered. This is just content, we haven't even touched on the rules of how to build valid housing, or how a player should gather information on what they should be doing next. This isn't really even a real discussion, because we even have tooltips on the loading screens. The lacking of teaching a player fundmentals was very apparent, there's nothing to discuss here.
Normally I'd agree, but some of the 1.4.1 changes were pretty questionable, which leads to believe it might've been rushed. Keep in mind, we have a deadline this time around, it's not like how things used to be.
True, but there are several issues with this incident that lead me to believe these are spoiled, unchecked complaints.
The developers had to know this stuff, but it's a possibility they don't, or have too much on their plate to overthink it. It's a false claim is what I'm saying, no matter how you look at it. The only reason I didn't challenge the BS the first time, is that I thought a more complex NPC happiness system might arise from it, but of course, that didn't happen, because the people who wanted it changed wanted it changed for the worst.
- Elaborate builds are extremely resource heavy & a TON of fundamental blocks for building are locked behind Hardmode. This means that a player who plans to build is gonna be wealthy, because you kinda have to be, and is gonna have a lot of farms & engines running to speed up progression. In no way, shape or form does NPC happiness interfere with this, even if a person was to try & take prices into account, because the number of resources an elaborate builder has is worth 70+ platinum - over; not including what can be sold using kill-engines.
- Most elaborate builders don't have any issue world hopping or transferring items, because certain resources aren't available on every world that get used often; Dungeon Brick & free Sandstone Brick from Pyramids are a few examples. Building beautiful structures & normal game progression will often clash & are normally two separate metagames.
That's great, but most rudimentary builders won't have an issue with NPC Happiness, because it doesn't conflict with basic housing structures.
View attachment 295120 View attachment 295121
See, I know this from hours & hours of building. I speak up because I know better, not because I know better than the devs.
Well, when Leinfors, for example implemented several things I repeatedly warned against, issues arised. I don't have any magic powers or abilities to make things others suggest go wrong, I just know enough about the game to understand when something will cause conflict. These guys are making big-brain plays with this game, but we can't possibly expect every choice to be brilliant, when you have a deadline. At a certain point, some things are just to risky too mess around with when you have 47 other tasks to complete. I shouldn't have to explain this to another intelligent person, but here we are.
Here's the thing, many of the newer additions were brilliant, so there's no way I could think that. In fact, the devs took a brilliant idea that qwerty3.14 had, but made it 100x better; making pre-Molten Tier comparable to Bee Gear for Summoner Class. The problem is trying to balance that idea, when you have 47 other brilliant things you need to iron out right beside it. It's called overload. The gais at Relogic are brilliant, but they're also human. Me recognizing that they are humans beings with limitations, isn't a suggestion that I know better, it's called empathy, you should try it some time.
There's no cycle here, you're just drawing shortsighted conclusions to fit some narrative you've drawn up about me. As you can see above, I've just made you privy to new information.
I mean, that's obvious. I don't have an issue with you or anyone inserting themselves into a discussion, but doing so & then asking the person entertaining your curiosity "what are you on about?" is just silly. You asked a question, that I didn't have to answer, but I actually over-answered. We've had enough exchanges to where I'm still unsure why you're trying to insult my intelligence, but if it continues, I'll just move on to something more worth my time.
I mean, congratulations? I never claimed to be perfect, so kudos to you, figuring out situational awareness? Thank goodness for our differences, right?
Are you using the "majority belief system" argument again? Do I have to retort with the slavery, or holocaust defense, or are we good here?
Not really, I've learned to divorce myself from products or I.P.s that don't align with my tastes. Terraria is a great game with great people, but that doesn't mean that this can't change. It'd be unfortunate, because it'd be a rare, special relationship between the fans & creators, that ended up being destroyed by the actual fans & not the developers. I'm hoping that doesn't happen, because Terraria can be a shining example of this relationship done right.
However, if we show that it doesn't matter who has the wheel, the fans or the developers, it'll prove that the abuse will be there no matter who has a say in the matter & we'll miss a very limited & important window. I understand the weight of that opportunity, but I don't think anyone else does & just have to accept that. Terraria is amazing, but so are other games out there.
I trust the devs immensely, but people make terrible choices when they're stressed, overworked & exhausted. A LOT of the stuff in 1.4.1 were bad calls & from what I've seen, most of those changes were from fan suggestions, which I've warned the entire forums was dangerous from the beginning, when they stopped realizing we had an actual deadline.
Out of context, yeah, I do. How about this though... do you realize how many pages the Terraria Wiki is & how complex? Terraria has enough content in it to fill three Encyclopedias, but no tutorial. If that doesn't explain to you why that's a failure in design, I don't know what will convince you.
Thanks for that deep history lesson professor...
This isn't about personal taste, it's about good general game design. The amount of information you can gather in 1.4 in comparison to 1.3.5 in the Bestiary alone, attests to the vacuum that was left, considering the sheer amount of content the game offered. This is just content, we haven't even touched on the rules of how to build valid housing, or how a player should gather information on what they should be doing next. This isn't really even a real discussion, because we even have tooltips on the loading screens. The lacking of teaching a player fundmentals was very apparent, there's nothing to discuss here.
Normally I'd agree, but some of the 1.4.1 changes were pretty questionable, which leads to believe it might've been rushed. Keep in mind, we have a deadline this time around, it's not like how things used to be.
True, but there are several issues with this incident that lead me to believe these are spoiled, unchecked complaints.
The developers had to know this stuff, but it's a possibility they don't, or have too much on their plate to overthink it. It's a false claim is what I'm saying, no matter how you look at it. The only reason I didn't challenge the BS the first time, is that I thought a more complex NPC happiness system might arise from it, but of course, that didn't happen, because the people who wanted it changed wanted it changed for the worst.
- Elaborate builds are extremely resource heavy & a TON of fundamental blocks for building are locked behind Hardmode. This means that a player who plans to build is gonna be wealthy, because you kinda have to be, and is gonna have a lot of farms & engines running to speed up progression. In no way, shape or form does NPC happiness interfere with this, even if a person was to try & take prices into account, because the number of resources an elaborate builder has is worth 70+ platinum - over; not including what can be sold using kill-engines.
- Most elaborate builders don't have any issue world hopping or transferring items, because certain resources aren't available on every world that get used often; Dungeon Brick & free Sandstone Brick from Pyramids are a few examples. Building beautiful structures & normal game progression will often clash & are normally two separate metagames.
That's great, but most rudimentary builders won't have an issue with NPC Happiness, because it doesn't conflict with basic housing structures.
View attachment 295120 View attachment 295121
See, I know this from hours & hours of building. I speak up because I know better, not because I know better than the devs.
Well, when Leinfors, for example implemented several things I repeatedly warned against, issues arised. I don't have any magic powers or abilities to make things others suggest go wrong, I just know enough about the game to understand when something will cause conflict. These guys are making big-brain plays with this game, but we can't possibly expect every choice to be brilliant, when you have a deadline. At a certain point, some things are just to risky too mess around with when you have 47 other tasks to complete. I shouldn't have to explain this to another intelligent person, but here we are.
the 1.4.1 update won't be with the mobile 1.4, but it should come later (I heard this somewhere)
If you guys over at Relogic aren't crunching to get this game as polished as humanly possibly, I applaud you. However, I had a few concerns. You guys over there are brilliant, no doubt, but I've been keeping track of the changes you've all been making & the bugs you've been squashing (over 850+ recorded issues). Bug fixing isn't easy, it's basically troubleshooting a problem that can be caused by any number of things, or some odd combination of things no one could've foreseen. If I was to give an average of three hours, per bug fix & change made to the game, from 1.4 to 1.4.1, it clocks in to about over 2550 hours (106 days). Terraria 1.4 has only been out for about five months.
Yeah, as a person who used to work in travel & luxury, I fully understand this. You guys are also a very small development crew, which is comparable to being understaffed; which I also know - what it's like. That's why I was concerned about you gais, as you've been knocking it outta the park lately, but something felt extremely off...
I'm glad to know that you gais over at Relogic are 1000% against crunch culture!Just wanted to make that very clear.
You all are doing an amazing job, so please don't kill yourselves in the process. Terraria is just a videogame, your health is much more important!
What are those? I wasn't around in a last couple of months and now genuinely curious.
There were several things I was extremely vocal about before being banned from two major threads, the other warnings/ suggestions were more toward fans, asking for things that were bad & I debated with them specifically.
Bloodnautilus droping this weapon with 100% certainty is creating the same issue that the devs worked so hard to fix with Duke Fishron. I'm not sure if this is them giving in to audience pressure, or if there's some kind of breakdown going on in testing & reviewing; raising the drop rate of Bloody Tears was enough.
actually, the "bloodnautilus" is the "dreadnautilus"There were several things I was extremely vocal about before being banned from two major threads, the other warnings/ suggestions were more toward fans, asking for things that were bad & I debated with them specifically.
- Summoner Class didn't need any more buffs. Keep in mind that Whips are a different issue entirely, not the same. Summoner had free range to use whatever weapons in the game they wanted, especially moving over to OOA/ DD2 Armor sets, who all specialize in major weapons anyhow.
- No Summoner starting Class, this isn't that bad of an addition, but I have a feeling it's gonna create some unforeseen issues in the future if it isn't nerfed properly. As of now, Flinx Minions arguably rival Hornet Staff & the entire set allows for a total of two Minions; optimized, a player is able to Summon up to four Minions, with a Summoner Potion & Bewitching Table (which can be progression skipped in some cases). Keep in mind that Flinx Gear is only Gold Tier Armor & this is all pre-Boss.
- Lowering the rarity of Sanguine Staff. I really felt like this one was an obvious mistake, but somehow no one seems to agree, yet I'm already seeing players ask for buffs to Twins Staff, Spiders & Blade Staff, which are already powerful.
- I can't pretend that I was very effective in arguing for Minions to be mostly left alone effectively, because I don't know what stuff like Local_Immunity & Global_Immunity means, so I tried to stay away from those kinds of talks, but I did my best to make it clear that most Minions didn't need to be changed much.
- Lastly, I tried my best to remind everyone that this was the last & final update, so if they wanted good changes, they should really put a good amount of thought into their ideas before sharing them with the devs, because any lasting issue created by poor additions was gonna likely be permanent. I still don't think they get it though...
It was called that in the original Journey's End trailer. Everyone who speculated about it referred to it as that for so long that some of us never broke the habit (even I occasionally slip and call it that sometimes.)
oh, ok, I thought that it was bloodnautilus for a while and learned 3 days ago that its not
Interesting debate there - and will not interfere other than to say at no point in time has Re-Logic engaged in or supported anything remotely close to crunch culture. Not during 1.4.1, 1.4 or at any earlier point... and nor will we in the future.
Are there some periods of time where things are more "busy" than others? Absolutely - but that is the ebb and flow of anything.
Just wanted to make that very clear.
