qwerty3.14
Terrarian
Tried obsidian armor, beat moonlord first try.
Remember when they nerfed this set? I don't either.Tried obsidian armor, beat moonlord first try.
It only brings back the discussion about if we should only rank weapons at their max potential even if the skill ceiling is relatively very high.You might be someone who's capable of doing that, but I'm pretty sure that 99.9% of players can't do it. I have never seen or heard about anyone aggressively whipping Moon Lord at close range other than you.
I JUST pointed out that you can simply switch back to main summoner gear during the fight though?you lose a significant amount of minion slots, and if you replace summoner accessories with ranger ones you'll also lose minion slots and summon damage.
Fair, but you will still regardless deal a bunch of damage at the start of the fight, probably cutting the top eye's HP down to 1/3 or something around that. It'll save a significant amount of time, letting Summoner kill the top eye right at around the time ML fires the first Deathray laser.And as I said before, this strategy specifically uses Shroomite armour's stealth, which makes a huge damage difference, but which summoners can't use without becoming entirely ranger.
Yeah that's why I said "almost" forced. There are options to outpace him, but for standard loadouts with dashes and no mounts you are not going to outrun Saucer. Maybe have it next to you consistently if you spam dash in the same direction fast, but I find going left and right the easier and more consistent option. Either way the Saucer will be in whip range in those cases.Actually this is incorrect. If you're using hover wings or an infinite flight mount you can outpace the Saucer and its laser.
I've been really inattentive with typos lately. I meant to say Kaleidoscope.How does Terraprisma provide thousands of single target DPS to Blade Staff?
Pray tell, how does one fly upwards again if they're already in space?
The True Eyes shoot them too, and also like to do it right in front of your face, which happens a ton within whip range
No, that isn't a good mindset. One of the points of a tier list like this is to tell more inexperienced players whether to get they should get these weapons and use them, or if it's not worth it. If the creator of a tier list ranks a certain weapon high, then newer players who see it might specifically try to get that weapon and use it. If said weapon is extremely difficult to use effectively, then people wouldn't want to use the tier list because to them the weapon wouldn't perform well while the tier list creator said it was good.It only brings back the discussion about if we should only rank weapons at their max potential even if the skill ceiling is relatively very high.
What I'm trying to say is that rangers can just summon some minions before the fight for free extra damage without losing out on anything, whereas in order for summoners to use the Chlorophyte Arrow strat they must switch their armour and accessories before and after.I JUST pointed out that you can simply switch back to main summoner gear during the fight though?
In Expert Mode, you've got access to the Witch's Broom and Shrimpy Truffle before Martian Madness, and it makes perfect sense for a casual player to have one of those. And even without infinite flight mounts, I think that you could use Asphalt or a Blessed Apple.Yeah that's why I said "almost" forced. There are options to outpace him, but for standard loadouts with dashes and no mounts you are not going to outrun Saucer. Maybe have it next to you consistently if you spam dash in the same direction fast, but I find going left and right the easier and more consistent option. Either way the Saucer will be in whip range in those cases.
In that case, how does Kaleidoscope "delete crowds nearly instantly"? Especially when compared to weapons like Staff of Earth, Stake Launcher, Dark Harvest, Razorblade Typhoon, Eventide, Stellar Tune, and Charged Blaster Cannon, it doesn't have the best crowd control.I've been really inattentive with typos lately. I meant to say Kaleidoscope.
Tell that to tier lists in 99% of video games in general. Even on games like Kingdom Rush for example, a hero like Durax is ranked & considered S tier despite being abnormally micro-heavy.No, that isn't a good mindset.
Yet nobody is having issues with Blade Staff being ranked S+ despite being one of the most complicated weapons in the game, requiring whip stacking to be on par or outperform other "Meta" weapons.If said weapon is extremely difficult to use effectively, then people wouldn't want to use the tier list because to them the weapon wouldn't perform well while the tier list creator said it was good.
No problem about that. Just spend a couple of seconds right clicking several times and then some left click to max out minion count again.whereas in order for summoners to use the Chlorophyte Arrow strat they must switch their armour and accessories before and after.
I can acknowledge that, but my point stands that Martian Saucer comes toward you and becomes a simple target for whipping.In Expert Mode, you've got access to the Witch's Broom and Shrimpy Truffle before Martian Madness, and it makes perfect sense for a casual player to have one of those. And even without infinite flight mounts, I think that you could use Asphalt or a Blessed Apple.
Pre-Hardmode whips do stuff like this when coupled with Blade Staff. But if I need to record one or two short Kaleidoscope clips to make it convincing, I guess I'll have no other choice. But you look at these gifs, and you remember the fact Kaleidoscope has nearly double the range of Spinal Tap, attacks faster with Dark Harvest in mind, has way stronger Summon tag effects and has around 6x the base damage.In that case, how does Kaleidoscope "delete crowds nearly instantly"? Especially when compared to weapons like Staff of Earth, Stake Launcher, Dark Harvest, Razorblade Typhoon, Eventide, Stellar Tune, and Charged Blaster Cannon, it doesn't have the best crowd control.
In general the mech bosses (excluding Destroyer) and Plantera aren't much harder to dodge at close range and usually move toward you, so I don't think that stacking Durendal and Spinal Tap on them is that difficult. Plus you can use Shark Tooth and/or Stinger Necklace to increase Blade Staff's damage per hit by a reasonable amount without requiring any whipping.Yet nobody is having issues with Blade Staff being ranked S+ despite being one of the most complicated weapons in the game, requiring whip stacking to be on par or outperform other "Meta" weapons.
It's not just right clicking several times, as combat accessories can't go in vanity slots, so you have to manually move them over, while fighting ML.No problem about that. Just spend a couple of seconds right clicking several times and then some left click to max out minion count again.
You didn't show Kaleidoscope outperforming the weapons I mentioned, and those were pretty random enemies, some of which were on low health already.Pre-Hardmode whips do stuff like this when coupled with Blade Staff. But if I need to record one or two short Kaleidoscope clips to make it convincing, I guess I'll have no other choice. But you look at these gifs, and you remember the fact Kaleidoscope has nearly double the range of Spinal Tap, attacks faster with Dark Harvest in mind, has way stronger Summon tag effects and has around 6x the base damage.
Just fly away for a bit. If you can whip stack, then you can more than manage a bit of accessory management at the start of the ML fight.It's not just right clicking several times, as combat accessories can't go in vanity slots, so you have to manually move them over, while fighting ML.
I think it's pretty clear that the gifs show groups of mostly fully healthy enemies being annihilated by a Pre-Hardmode whip that only a small fraction of the power of Kaleidoscope.You didn't show Kaleidoscope outperforming the weapons I mentioned, and those were pretty random enemies, some of which were on low health already.
Not a very fair comparison, the only reason Kaleidoscope would struggle is not because of damage or pierce or range, but because it's not a projectile and it doesn't let you stay at the crystal. Razorblade Typhoon and such are undoubtedly better there, but anywhere else Kaleidoscope is just as good if not better at piercing clumps of enemies (Martians and Pillars)I bet if you test Kaleidoscope + a Pre-Cultist minion (Dark Harvest is NOT ALLOWED TO BE USED WHATSOEVER) and some of weapons I mentioned against tier 3 OOA, you'd find that the other weapons would do better.
You don't need to stay at the crystal. The only things that could easily ambush the crystal while you're on the opposite side are Etherian Wyverns, Kobold Gliders and Etherian Lightning Bugs, but if you're using Clinger Staff and an Asphalt runway you should be able to eliminate them quick enough. But yes, the weapons I mentioned have a clear advantage against OOA.Not a very fair comparison, the only reason Kaleidoscope would struggle is not because of damage or pierce or range, but because it's not a projectile and it doesn't let you stay at the crystal. Razorblade Typhoon and such are undoubtedly better there, but anywhere else Kaleidoscope is just as good if not better at piercing clumps of enemies (Martians and Pillars)
"Especially outperforming Razorblade typhoon". Sure? Sometimes, not especially. Razorpine has a 1 second edge over summoner. Oh, such an inconvenience.BTW, another reason to rank Kaleidoscope S or (just do it) S+: Since once again availability isn't taken into account, this means Kaleidoscope is a Pre-Golem weapon. It provides thousands of single target DPS combined with Blade Staff and beyond, being on par or outperforming other S+ weapons like Tsunami & especially Razorblade Typhoon. It obliterates Golem, it obliterates Pumpkin Moon and delete crowds nearly instantly, it can attack Cursed Skulls through walls in the Hardmode Dungeon, it speeds up Martian invasions a lot and can burn through Martian Saucer's first phase faster than almost if not all other weapons. Just rise it.
OK. And you admit that summoner is 2x inferior to HB + statues and does not require super elite skills. I said why these are comparable. We are talking about the fastest ML kill, after all.Please stop blaming your inability to dodge ML at close-range on the Hallowed armor.
Whipstacking = Statue trick in my understanding, in the sense that it is not widely known and was not designed to be primarily used
Typhoon is comparable to Xeno. Obviously, Blade staff cannot compete with them both. Even with 768 whips, and -347894 def- worth debuffs.Kaleidoscope setups against EoL have stable and easy 2500+ DPS with Blade Staff with Hallowed Armor. With Spooky Armor and Xeno Staff, I'm pretty sure it's stable 3500+ if not 4000+.
Agreeable, considering perfect dodges.Yes. I'd literally prefer Hallowed armor even more for oneshotting ML than Daytime Empress.
PDD Spooky
Phase 1 I used the phantasm, did so much damage that I one cycled the head! Once phase 2 started I right clicked the core with the stardust dragon staff then switched to the daybreak. This was the highest dps build I found.
- Phantasm, Daybreak, Stardust dragon staff
- Full hallowed(summoner)
- Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Avenger Emblem, Destroyer Emblem.
- All reforged to menacing
I'm pretty sure Kalei/Harvest/Spooky/Xeno can reach over 3500+ DPS. Probably 4000+. I don't remember Razorblade ever dealing that much DPS, even with Spectre armor. You must have done something wrong in the Empress DPS test for Razorblade to somehow kill her 2 seconds faster. In fact I know it because looking at my Expert mode EoL kill times with Hallowed armor & Blade staff, something is off with that Kalei/Harvest/Xeno/Spooky master mode kill time considering the large DPS difference."Especially outperforming Razorblade typhoon". Sure? Sometimes, not especially.
A weapon that specializes in single-target DPS only and doesn't have the destructive piercing the Kaleidoscope has.Razorpine has a 1 second edge over summoner.
There is a reason I think Melee is the best class in generalOK. And you admit that summoner is 2x inferior to HB + statues and does not require super elite skills. I said why these are comparable. We are talking about the fastest ML kill, after all.
How is Typhoon dealing 4000+ DPS, even with Spectre armor?...Typhoon is comparable to Xeno. Obviously, Blade staff cannot compete with them both. Even with 768 whips, and -347894 def- worth debuffs.
Well. Lets draw a conclusion I think. (And if I was rude sometimes I'm sorry, I haven't figured out ways of delivering of politeness in English)I'm pretty sure Kalei/Harvest/Spooky/Xeno can reach over 3500+ DPS. Probably 4000+. I don't remember Razorblade ever dealing that much DPS, even with Spectre armor. You must have done something wrong in the Empress DPS test for Razorblade to somehow kill her 2 seconds faster. In fact I know it because looking at my Expert mode EoL kill times with Hallowed armor & Blade staff, something is off with that Kalei/Harvest/Xeno/Spooky master mode kill time considering the large DPS difference.
A weapon that specializes in single-target DPS only and doesn't have the destructive piercing the Kaleidoscope has.
There is a reason I think Melee is the best class in general
How is Typhoon dealing 4000+ DPS, even with Spectre armor?...
Also, elaborate on Typhoon having "huge advantages" underground.
Kaleidoscope kills stuff faster with minions, while also having the advantage of being able to target Cursed Skulls through walls. Personally I wouldn't rely on Typhoon too much for Hardmode dungeon, the area is so tight that Razorblade projectiles tend to get stuck and feel awkward to use at some places.Does not require direct line of sight, as whips.
I don't actually rely on brief bursts of numbers. If I did, I would have claimed that Post-cultist Summoner can deal 7000+ DPS with either Dragon or Cell. Maybe 8000+ for Cells, actually.As for the rest... maybe I'm just bad with summoner, but please, don't get lured by DPS meter and its brief bursts of numbers.
For dungeon & typhoon, agree, but for the exceptionally narrow passages. Kalei can't hit regular skeletons if there are any sort of obstacles. Typhoon will likely bounce and home in. If there is some space, Razorblade also seems to deal with teleporting enemier a bit better.Kaleidoscope kills stuff faster with minions, while also having the advantage of being able to target Cursed Skulls through walls. Personally I wouldn't rely on Typhoon too much for Hardmode dungeon, the area is so tight that Razorblade projectiles tend to get stuck and feel awkward to use at some places.
I don't actually rely on brief bursts of numbers. If I did, I would have claimed that Post-cultist Summoner can deal 7000+ DPS with either Dragon or Cell. Maybe 8000+ for Cells, actually.
I didn't record time when I played around with Dragon/Cells, but I can try doing that too once I have free time.Good for you, then it should be true that in your hands summon > magic, but for me they are equal. What’s your times though, at least for 1 attempt, if it's not hard to provide these?
Sure. I will also retest Razorblade/Xeno + whips for 10 times, to avoid unreliabilityI didn't record time when I played around with Dragon/Cells, but I can try doing that too once I have free time.
Is that... 30 thousand single target DPS?!Quite comparable to the Zenith...
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This is the only one I'm not buying. Obsidian activates Firecracker explosions more often, and Dragon's damage grows more slower with each additional segment. Everytime I've used Obsidian both for a master mode playthrough and for DPS testing in godmode, spooky did the same or only slightly higher DPS. Of course I'm saying this with the mindset that whipping is done as much as possible, since Spooky has a significant advantage when it comes to "Passive" DPS.Obsidian armor actually got a significantly worse time than spooky almost 50% longer, probably because the dragon itself is much weaker which firecracker's tag scales off of.