I can understand that. I just don't feel like it's... agreeable.
It would be one thing if the Expert Mode rewards were mere trophies. But they are functioning items and weapons. It's hard to deny that people would feel left out. I certainly felt left out and I did not enjoy slogging through Expert Mode to obtain them at all. In fact, I would go as far as to say the rewards were pitiful compared to what I put up with to get them, which is only further reason to include them in normal mode
(Except the Demon Heart. That item is 10 kinds of amazing).
While I disagree on whether or not it would "fix" anything, I want to point out that I didn't (or at least didn't MEAN to) call YOU an elitist or hardcore gamer, specifically.
I was simply stating that my point was directed towards such people. I apologize if it sounded like I was accusing you of anything.
Admittedly I somehow managed to skim that very last part. I read every single bit of the rest of your post but skimmed the apology (which is literally the last line. If I was reading the whole post anyway, how did I miss that? I blame my ADHD). I do accept it, by the way.
A valid opinion.they certainly would feel left out, but simply giving a trophy and calling it compensation would most likely upset more people than it would please. the only expert mode rewards that i really liked were the shield (because i like the tabi a lot) and the scarf (because it is really cute). the gravity globe is sort of entertaining but very underwhelming. the only time i have used it was when my friend and i attempted an entirely upside down playthrough, which was ... interesting.
with that in mind, however, it seems like there is really no way to win - on one hand, the expert mode rewards are very underwhelming, so it would be beneficial to properly scale them to feel like rewards. on the other hand, if the rewards are too good, they become something of a necessity, which means that expert mode is no longer additional difficulty for better rewards but additional difficulty that is required for a playthrough.
i am of the opinion that the rewards, while somewhat underwhelming, are fine as they are now. they are not necessary to progression, are tradeable and usable in normal mode (except for the demon heart), and not having them does not put the player at any real disadvantage. being tradeable and usable in normal mode allows collectors to fully enjoy them, while being not entirely overwhelming (unlike the biome weapons on release) means that players should not feel like they are playing inefficiently when they are not using them.
Yes, exactly.i can understand taking pride in being able to complete expert mode, but i would say that if someone is going around telling players that they are bad because they cannot beat expert mode, the issue is not with the mode but with the player who is actively being a jerk.
I don't mind if someone thinks you can accomplish something with some additional effort.This thread is an example of one person's rant that:
"No content, no matter how much, or how important, must ever be gated behind difficulty, ever." [followed by, "Because I'm a completionist and I should get to do everything without being challenged."]
And a bunch of people trying to explain why (s)he's wrong.
"I just want people to stop having this attitude that only hardcore gamers should even be bothering to play Expert Mode, because that's what all this "git gud" talk sounds like."
As the sort of person that thinks/says "get good", I will insist to you that it means precisely "Anyone can do this, all he/she needs to do is put in a bit of time and effort. You'll get there." That's why it's "git gud" and not "u suck"
I'm sorry but I can't allow you to defend that.
For a completionist, this is tantamount to torture.
and it certainly caters to their masochistic desires
Shield of Cthulhu is actually a damn GOOD earlygame accessory. You must not like dodging very much or you'd know that. lol
a scarf that's really not that amazing in practice (unless you tie it together with a bunch of other tank stuff and your purpose is to be a tank in multiplayer),
But now people who DON'T want such a brutal challenge are still feeling "forced" to play anyway, because they are LEGITIMATELY MISSING OUT on a large chunk of new content otherwise.
Really? Wiki says it's factored after defense calculation. http://terraria.wiki.gg/Worm_Scarf "(damage reduction calculated after defense: Damage(taken) = Damage(base) - Defense(1/2(normal) or 2/3(expert) - 17%)"Worm scarf is much better than most would expect judging from the tooltip. It actually takes away 17% before defence is factored, so the practical percentage reduction can be much higher.
I'd love to explain how you can be better at posting in a community where ideas are meant to be shared and discussed but I just don't see the point. You're clearly never improving as a human being because human beings are not meant to be social creatures and interact with each other or seek help from each other. If you can't pull yourself up by your own bootstraps and do the work necessary to survive on your own you just don't have any reason to be here.So, not only it is inappropriate to tell someone "improve yourself" without telling them how (God forbid they do the work to figure out how to improve!), but it is so wrong that you cannot allow my opinion, that it is so morally and logically bankrupt that it cannot stand?
Git gud at something besides being a pompous windbag.
Lock this puppie up, mods. Never going to go anywhere.
I respect that opinion.I'd rather this game was designed for hardcore players than completionists.
There's really not much "skill" involved in terraria. I find that most of the difficulty simply stems from either not having enough HP or not having enough damage. You don't have enough movement control in Terraria for battles to be based on skill, I personally find, meaning that most of the time you're simply forced to take hits.Revise the definition of masochism.
That's not what the majority of these players want. They want a challenge to be able to conquer through skills and strategy and thus feel pride for that. 'Pain' is a side-product when people get frustrated that they aren't making any progress with a certain part of the game.
I've never really had that problem with it, but I can't argue it because I do have friends who HAVE.Uh...actually, it's the opposite of that for me. I don't use it for dodging because it can often be counter-productive. Especially against skeletron, where you could accidentally dash against one of the hands and end up being launched the other way straight into the skull. Tabi is different because it simply ignores enemies.
Oh, snap. Okay that is pretty nice.Worm scarf is much better than most would expect judging from the tooltip. It actually takes away 17% before defence is factored, so the practical percentage reduction can be much higher.
See now that's the most valid argument I've heard in the entire thread.Then go into an Expert Mode world with an end-game character and get the content? There's no argument against this if they aren't seeking a challenge.
I've noticed it too, and that's primarily my problem with it.From what I've experienced with the new difficulty, it isn't as painfully difficult as some claim it to be. Pre-HM bosses got a massive bump in difficulty, which I definitely appreciate. Otherwise, all the normal mobs are still easy as anything. Dungeon is still a walk in the park, the Goblin Invasion is no different other than stats and hell is also still simple to engage in. The Jungle is a little threatening because of the massive times on those poison debuffs though.
Entering HardMode, it's mostly just severely punishing attacks that the player receives. Illuminant bats for example do over 130 damage. The mechanical bosses received little buffs other than stat boosts. Plantera is just more spammy and punishes you more for being in tight spaces. Golem is no different. Duke Fishron has a neat little 'last stand' ability, but apart from that is still the same. Moon events? Yep, you guessed it, no different.
Oh god the Martian Invasion... before they nerfed the probes to, y'know, not show up as much (among other things), I had events running back to back while I was just tryin'a mind my own goddamn business...What's my point? Basically, in Expert Mode, you just need to employ the same tactics that were effective in normal mode in most cases. For experienced players such as myself, doing this made the majority of content feel very 'similar' to playing it before 1.3. If it didn't work in Expert Mode, then it probably didn't work brilliantly in normal mode anyway but it wasn't punishing enough to kill you quickly. The only severely challenging parts of the game is the new stuff, such as the Martian Invasion, Solar Pillars and the Moon lord. But that's because it's new content. It takes time for people to find the right strategies.
There's really not much "skill" involved in terraria. I find that most of the difficulty simply stems from either not having enough HP or not having enough damage. You don't have enough movement control in Terraria for battles to be based on skill, I personally find, meaning that most of the time you're simply forced to take hits.
The only "dodging" in terraria consists of finding a way to keep the boss-off-screen and then shooting backwards, which is sad.
bosses like Plantera can eat you right the hell up unless you do stuff like prepare a huge arena ahead of time, so in the end it's still quite the bruiser.
End-game gear, at least in my experience, doesn't really trivialize ML. What trivializes him is setting up an arena designed for you to be able to sit and just facetank all the damage and get healed by heart statues and attack him through walls with solarThough an exception I guess is the Moon Lord. I don't know how much end-game gear trivialises that boss, though.
Something I can agree with.This is wholly untrue. Abusing boss mechanics by always staying clear of them is something that is often discouraged and regarded as unfair and cheesy by most of the seasoned folk.
Well, okay you've got me there. I fought Duke Fishron and he is a pretty good example of actually using good dodging skills.You won't get anywhere if you don't know how to evade against, for example, Duke Fishron. That boss isn't a simple 'strafe left and right with wings until boss is dead'.
Yeah, I was really just thinking of the movement-based skill. If you're trying to rely on JUST that, you're pretty much just getting squished repeatedly. With Terraria, it's very much LESS that, and MORE the whole preparation and arena building.It definitely takes skill to play this game, though perhaps you're thinking more of the twitchy, reaction kind of skill solely. Whereas actually, it is moreso a combination of that, preparation, wit (for arena builds as an example) and adaptability. Proof that it exists? Just from being in TCF (and TO once upon a time) and observing many people that are incapable of killing post-buff Normal mode Destroyer with Titanium armour and the like...and then other peeps beating it while using only Pre-HM gear.
The height between the skill floor and ceiling in this game is definitely, at the very least, significant.
Like I said, huge arena. Plantera is all about having LOTS of space, which means oftentimes you have to straight-up bulldoze whole sections of the underground jungle.Only if you let them. Some specific weapons can reach over 5000DPS or even in the five-digit figures; Plantera certainly cannot take away 500 health in 4 seconds.
Outside of Last Prism, which I'm told can eat through him in seconds, most end-game gear doesn't really trivialize him by much.Though an exception I guess is the Moon Lord. I don't know how much end-game gear trivialises that boss, though.
I can't think of anyone else that requires it, though.
Expert Mode Eye of Cthulhu WOULD be fun
Oh yeeaaah. Queen Bee's dash thing, the Cursed Flame shots (until second form anyway, then you're back to playing keep-away).Queen Bee, Expert Skeletron, Spazmatism (and Retinazer to an extent), Martian Saucer are further examples.
I prefer the Yellow Horseshoe Balloon, myself.I think an issue is very much so wings, in that as soon as you get them, you have access to super mobility and therefore can avoid a lot of attacks completely. In pre-HM, with Spectre+ Boots, your mobility in air is much more limited and therefore you have to be a lot more cautious and efficient.
The best Terraria can do in that sense is use homing shots that move faster than the player, but can't turn very well. I'd like to see a little more of that, yeah (but not a whole lot), instead of simply "fill the arena with projectiles". That's more of a bullet-hell thing...What I do find odd though is that the game doesn't have that much enemies that lead their shots. To take an example of an enemy from a different game called Serious Sam: BFE. There is an enemy known as the 'Scrapjack Rocketeer' that fires a swarm of deadly rockets with a pair of launchers. He fires each launcher differently though, one shoots at your current location and the other shoots at where you will be if you keep moving in the same linear fashion. This means you have to be wary not to stay still while also to move a bit more cleverly.
In Terraria, most projectiles shot at you are simply avoided by constant mobility.