Muteness
Terrarian
- Important Notice -
- Please Read 'Before voting'! -
- Please Read 'Before voting'! -
The following is subject to change. The main point of this thread is to discuess an alternative weapon choice to help prevent melee from feeling the same as those who are ranged. Nothing in this thread is final until it's locked.
If you hate that flails were added to the game, this isn't for you. If you hate yoyo were added, you may want to leave. If you never want to see new weapon choices/content in addition to what we currently have but won't provide a defence for your views - DON'T BOTHER VOTING!
This thread is for those with open minds that are interested in possible new weapons/items and mechanics. It is pointless to vote if you have no intention to evaluate arguments on merit.
CONTEXT OF THREAD
Before you go on to read the following it's important you know the context behind it. This thread's primary intention is not to change the existing weapons/mechanics that players currently have as they may enjoy the things currently in the game. This thread was inspired to question if those who aren't satisfied with status quo choice of melee weapons currently available in-game if they'd approve of recommendations of potential weapons in this thread.
THE OBJECTIVE
The aim is to create and collect concept ideas people have or had and list them for approval by others on the forum to reflect how well received they could be as furture content. This is looking into what new content for melee weapons should behave like if we took the feedback of people who want something different into account.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT "NERFING MELEE"
Animated sprites wantedIf you hate that flails were added to the game, this isn't for you. If you hate yoyo were added, you may want to leave. If you never want to see new weapon choices/content in addition to what we currently have but won't provide a defence for your views - DON'T BOTHER VOTING!
This thread is for those with open minds that are interested in possible new weapons/items and mechanics. It is pointless to vote if you have no intention to evaluate arguments on merit.
CONTEXT OF THREAD
Before you go on to read the following it's important you know the context behind it. This thread's primary intention is not to change the existing weapons/mechanics that players currently have as they may enjoy the things currently in the game. This thread was inspired to question if those who aren't satisfied with status quo choice of melee weapons currently available in-game if they'd approve of recommendations of potential weapons in this thread.
THE OBJECTIVE
The aim is to create and collect concept ideas people have or had and list them for approval by others on the forum to reflect how well received they could be as furture content. This is looking into what new content for melee weapons should behave like if we took the feedback of people who want something different into account.
THIS IS NOT ABOUT "NERFING MELEE"
The problem with close quarters combat is people clearly don't use it often, myself included. This is because you put yourself through difficulty compared to melee weapons with greater range but for no pay-off and probably a longer time to kill things for your troubles. Even if you had higher damage on such weapons the fact is you can't continuously hit enemies as fast on account of having to dodge and etc. That's why I suggested an additional mechanic for a new weapon set to reward the players for putting themselves through inconveniace whilst hopefully maintaining balance and a more intresting form of combat.
This isn't and doesn't need to be an in-depth list to convey the point across. Should you be left doubful/uncertain what the following is about please ask questions, not give opinions.
To Top
This isn't and doesn't need to be an in-depth list to convey the point across. Should you be left doubful/uncertain what the following is about please ask questions, not give opinions.
- Point blank Weapons; you can't avoid damage easily whilst attacking, it limits you to have at least - or more than - a minimal amount of armour due to risks and in some cases unavoidable damage.
- Flails/yoyos; easier to use and don't have the problem but at that point your attacks become more ranged than melee. Why bother hitting them with anything but you maximum range on said weapon?
- The complicated stuff; Terrablade, Meowmare, Star Wrath and other such weapons are classified under melee damage, as are a veriaty of thrown animations. To avoid making an obnoxiously longer list I'm simply going to classify all these here; the melee weapons with the most range. There are no downsides to using these compared to anyother weapons. Even if we pretend that all melee weapons had identical damage/attack speed in their tier group - could you come up with an objective reason to not use the most ranged melee weaponry?
To Top
POST AND TELL ME!
What I'd like to suggest is an alternative for melee, something where you don't feel like you're sitting back/running away whilst you shoot. That doesn't feel like I'm using melee, now does it? It almost feels like the only differences are in the menu, I open my inventory to read the tag "melee damage" and the fact that I don't consume ammo or mana when I fire. So how about we spice the combat up? What if we put those with the most armour front and centre! .... please?
For this we need a whole new range of weapons spanning somewhere from 'end game' backwards. I think it's important that they don't drop too low in tiers that they become first/fifth item choices because one; your armour is going to be rubbish at early stages of the game and two; it's meant to fulfil satisfying combat through mobility and that could get messy for balancing at early tiers.
- Mechanics & Various Details -
This genre of weapons (yes I'm substituting the word genre because I wasn't happy with what to name this yet, you'll cope) could use mechanics similar to the Rod of Discord: You teleport (or at least move very fast) in a direction you click, BUT for a limited distance AND you can't go through foreground blocks except platforms. All enemies you move pass are pieced for your weapon's damage as you move invulnerably passed them. I'm also debating a block feature in which you press right mouse button for a damage reducing block - an armour buff appears only when held. Blocking isn't a mechanic we really see from anything player related, it might be cool to see it in action with multiplayer against mobs, and whilst typing this I'm imagining that balancing for PVP would be intriguing. An alternative is to hold the left mouse button rather than have an auto swing. This is one of the very, very few cases that having a auto swing on a weapon could potentially be a bad thing. Limitation are important, such as you aren't allowed to move any higher than 90° sideways in mid-air unless you have equipped wings or are on a flying mount (this shouldn't be some weird form of flying).
Blocking could perhaps reduce knock back or have it so you're knocked in the direction you're already moving. It could even do something similar to the Cross Necklace and/or Panic Necklace to allow you to distance yourself before you're ready to launch your next attack.
Here's what I'm thinking.
Weapons should all be swords (for now).
Melee damage/critical chance could be higher than most weapons as a risk/reward balance.
Velocity is a kink, unsure about this.
Knock back to enemies is also something I'm unsure of, maybe they could be knocked towards your original position? Hmm...
Use time should probably best as very fast ~8 or so frames but have a cooldown between swings, like on the other swords and their projectile abilities, but it was be awesome to have one or two that charges up for its attack?
Mutiple attacks on the same mobs stack a buff on the player using this type of weapon simular to the effects of Beetle Armour whereby damage and maybe crit too are buffed per landing consecutive attacks on the same target
Rarities blue or upwards most likely.
Prices may vary.
- Bad but valid example -
Name - Scripple (...... shut-up)
Type - Weapon (swords are the default for now)
Damage - 85 / melee
Knock Back - Some or none... (to be determined)
Velocity - (should this even be here?)(this'd be how fast you the player moves)
Distance - 10 feet / 5 blocks (open to editing)
Critical Chance - 15% / 20% / (less? more?)
Rarity - Lime
Use time - 5 / insanely fast (this could have a recharge time similar to things like Starfury)
Tooltip - Hold left mouse button (or right) to block. Uses mana. (THIS IS WHERE WARRIORS COULD HAVE A USE FOR MANA?!?!)(per hit? per second? per level of your excitement?! Wait...)
Sell - 8 gold
In-game effect - Mutiple hits against the same enemy benifets the player over time (PENDING)
Now here comes the part where I admit I'm L-uh... loving fun times ahead?! Yeah, because here's where you can join in, the fun that is, by thinking up what you'd like to see out of this collection... yay!
But seriously, this isn't just about me and what I'd like to see, it's about what all of you think about this little pitch of mine. If this was to be done what would you like to see out of it? How could it be balanced? Have you felt similar in the past? Have you never really thought about melee's range before this thread?
To Top
For this we need a whole new range of weapons spanning somewhere from 'end game' backwards. I think it's important that they don't drop too low in tiers that they become first/fifth item choices because one; your armour is going to be rubbish at early stages of the game and two; it's meant to fulfil satisfying combat through mobility and that could get messy for balancing at early tiers.
- Mechanics & Various Details -
This genre of weapons (yes I'm substituting the word genre because I wasn't happy with what to name this yet, you'll cope) could use mechanics similar to the Rod of Discord: You teleport (or at least move very fast) in a direction you click, BUT for a limited distance AND you can't go through foreground blocks except platforms. All enemies you move pass are pieced for your weapon's damage as you move invulnerably passed them. I'm also debating a block feature in which you press right mouse button for a damage reducing block - an armour buff appears only when held. Blocking isn't a mechanic we really see from anything player related, it might be cool to see it in action with multiplayer against mobs, and whilst typing this I'm imagining that balancing for PVP would be intriguing. An alternative is to hold the left mouse button rather than have an auto swing. This is one of the very, very few cases that having a auto swing on a weapon could potentially be a bad thing. Limitation are important, such as you aren't allowed to move any higher than 90° sideways in mid-air unless you have equipped wings or are on a flying mount (this shouldn't be some weird form of flying).
Blocking could perhaps reduce knock back or have it so you're knocked in the direction you're already moving. It could even do something similar to the Cross Necklace and/or Panic Necklace to allow you to distance yourself before you're ready to launch your next attack.
Here's what I'm thinking.
Weapons should all be swords (for now).
Melee damage/critical chance could be higher than most weapons as a risk/reward balance.
Velocity is a kink, unsure about this.
Knock back to enemies is also something I'm unsure of, maybe they could be knocked towards your original position? Hmm...
Use time should probably best as very fast ~8 or so frames but have a cooldown between swings, like on the other swords and their projectile abilities, but it was be awesome to have one or two that charges up for its attack?
Mutiple attacks on the same mobs stack a buff on the player using this type of weapon simular to the effects of Beetle Armour whereby damage and maybe crit too are buffed per landing consecutive attacks on the same target
Rarities blue or upwards most likely.
Prices may vary.
- Bad but valid example -
Name - Scripple (...... shut-up)
Type - Weapon (swords are the default for now)
Damage - 85 / melee
Knock Back - Some or none... (to be determined)
Velocity - (should this even be here?)(this'd be how fast you the player moves)
Distance - 10 feet / 5 blocks (open to editing)
Critical Chance - 15% / 20% / (less? more?)
Rarity - Lime
Use time - 5 / insanely fast (this could have a recharge time similar to things like Starfury)
Tooltip - Hold left mouse button (or right) to block. Uses mana. (THIS IS WHERE WARRIORS COULD HAVE A USE FOR MANA?!?!)(per hit? per second? per level of your excitement?! Wait...)
Sell - 8 gold
In-game effect - Mutiple hits against the same enemy benifets the player over time (PENDING)
Now here comes the part where I admit I'm L-uh... loving fun times ahead?! Yeah, because here's where you can join in, the fun that is, by thinking up what you'd like to see out of this collection... yay!
But seriously, this isn't just about me and what I'd like to see, it's about what all of you think about this little pitch of mine. If this was to be done what would you like to see out of it? How could it be balanced? Have you felt similar in the past? Have you never really thought about melee's range before this thread?
To Top
Weapon type
Polearm (new)
- Mechanics & Various Details -
Like a yoyo this weapon extends from your character as long as you hold down the attack button. It is a long, straight line starting from near the centre of your character, instantly rotating one end towards the cursor. A smaller extension extends the opposite way by about 6 to 8 pixels out, roughly 1~ block.
Polearms are not however flails. The have a maximum and minimum unmodifiable distance they can reach.
All Polearms deal piercing damage and feature increasing the player's defence by an amount equivalent to what tier that Polearm is from. Defence values for tiers white; 2 -3, orange to light purple; 5 - 8, lime to yellow; 10 - 12, and finally for cyan to purple 15.
That's right... 15 defence from just holding a weapon!
- New Mechanics -
Polearms collide with blocks, what does this mean? It means that if you hit the ground or walls around you - you are propelled. An example; you hold the button to attack, you then rotate the weapon clockwise to have your character be flung a short distance to the right quickly depending on how fast you moved your cursor. Think pole jumping.
All Polearms of tier lime or higher have a 60% chance to inflict a new debuff "Stunned" (bosses are immune to stun time). Stunned prevents mobs from moving temporarily, duration will vary based on knockback resistance, meaning the greater that enemy's resistance is, the shorter the duration will be for it. Mobs can't have Stunned debuff refreshed in the middle of already being Stunned, plus they can't be inflicted by it again for 1.5 seconds, starting from when the debuff ranout on them.
The minimum amount of time an enemy can be Stunned is about 0.2 seconds and the longest is maxed at about 1.2 seconds. Mobs affected by Stunned also have their contact damage halved for twice the stun time they had, in the case of bosses their attack is reduced by 25% for 1.5 seconds
The previous doesn't require the following. This part is an unlikely addition to Polearms:
When hitting an enemy with high tier Polearms, a separate faded animated sprite of the Polearm's end appears emanating from your character to give the look of hitting multiple times rapidly. This occurs every two consecutive hits you land and deals one quarter weapon's damage, it doesn't count as piercing and has zero knockback. Think of something similar to Influx Waver for refrence.
Equipping any Polearm will increase your minimum movement speed in mid air by 10% in all directions unless you're riding a mount. That means any method (wings or not) when ascending, moving horizontal and falling will be 10% faster. The falling speed will not stack with the Portal Gun's.
When hitting an enemy with high tier Polearms, a separate faded animated sprite of the Polearm's end appears emanating from your character to give the look of hitting multiple times rapidly. This occurs every two consecutive hits you land and deals one quarter weapon's damage, it doesn't count as piercing and has zero knockback. Think of something similar to Influx Waver for refrence.
Equipping any Polearm will increase your minimum movement speed in mid air by 10% in all directions unless you're riding a mount. That means any method (wings or not) when ascending, moving horizontal and falling will be 10% faster. The falling speed will not stack with the Portal Gun's.
As far as PVP is concerned there will probably never be an issue on account of this being very short range compared to other weapons. In PVP, damage seems to be superior to building up armour.
To Top
Here is the best example of visual representations of what it might look like, though obviously you need a little imagination to see this in Terraria:
At 37 seconds in we see a lunge forward by the player (playing as Sephiroth) where they pass their opponent to deal damage. This is what Concept One is based upon, though without as multiple hits or as lasting stun time/knockback. If we watch 46 seconds in, we see the player deal very rapid hits that are added onto their normal attacks, this is idea of how the Polearm (Concept Two) could work; hitting a mob by hovering the weapon over them has additional damage dealt by sprite if held continuously.
These idea weren't meant to be taken from Dissidia, it just so happened I remembered my experience playing the game and realised it showcased pretty great examples by my favourite character to play as.
Cliff notes of discussions so far
Exicuting attacks at specific points in time will cancel or medigate damage to your character
Reason for dismissal
Concept doesn't currently take into account how to deal with multiple instances of damage or being attacked from multiple angles.
Doesn't mention how to make timing clear to players, i.e. giving visal cues.
No comparison to elements in the game this could be conpaired to of make use of.
Reason for dismissal
Concept doesn't currently take into account how to deal with multiple instances of damage or being attacked from multiple angles.
Doesn't mention how to make timing clear to players, i.e. giving visal cues.
No comparison to elements in the game this could be conpaired to of make use of.
1 - comment #1 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-634417
2 - comment #2 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-634427
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-634417
2 - comment #2 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-634427
Give melee weapons a secondary attack animation when players press left click with mouse
during the swing animation, providing a secondary attack option.
Reason for dismissal
Concept currently lacks depth and doesn't give details of functionality in different situations.
Doesn't currently give means of damage medigation via blocking, dodging or reduction.
Feature could be added on top of a seperate, more complete idea.
during the swing animation, providing a secondary attack option.
Reason for dismissal
Concept currently lacks depth and doesn't give details of functionality in different situations.
Doesn't currently give means of damage medigation via blocking, dodging or reduction.
Feature could be added on top of a seperate, more complete idea.
1 - comment #50 / Page 3
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-659233
2 - comment #51 / Page 3
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-659500
3 - comment #52 / Page 3
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-659517
4 - comment #53 / Page 3
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-659552
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-659233
2 - comment #51 / Page 3
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-659500
3 - comment #52 / Page 3
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-659517
4 - comment #53 / Page 3
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-659552
Give melee weapons and potentially other types a limitation of use before needing repairs or other forms of renewal
to use them or their special combat effects.
Reason for dismissal
Is complected without an appropriately good reason for implementing into the game.
Has a high chance of upsetting the player base.
to use them or their special combat effects.
Reason for dismissal
Is complected without an appropriately good reason for implementing into the game.
Has a high chance of upsetting the player base.
1 - comment #77 / Page 4
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-4#post-752949
2 - comment #78 / Page 4
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-4#post-754156
3 - comment #79 / Page 4
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-4#post-754164
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-4#post-752949
2 - comment #78 / Page 4
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-4#post-754156
3 - comment #79 / Page 4
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-4#post-754164
1 - comment #10 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-643082
2 - comment #11 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-643180
3 - comment #12 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-643804
4 - comment #13 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-643945
5 - comment #14 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-643988
6 - comment #15 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-644040
7 - comment #16 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-644062
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-643082
2 - comment #11 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-643180
3 - comment #12 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-643804
4 - comment #13 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-643945
5 - comment #14 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-643988
6 - comment #15 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-644040
7 - comment #16 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-644062
Notes:
Comment #19 a users expresses they do not wish to see changes and doesn't want projectiles from melee weapons to cost mana.
Comment #19 a users expresses they do not wish to see changes and doesn't want projectiles from melee weapons to cost mana.
1 - comment #17 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-644085
2 - comment #18 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-644110
3 - comment #19 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-644125
4 - comment #20 / Page 1
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...under-revisionary-scrutiny.27193/#post-644146
5 - comment #23 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-644173
6 - comment #24 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-644194
1 - comment #28 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-644218
2 - comment #29 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-644227
3 - comment #31 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-644292
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-644218
2 - comment #29 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-644227
3 - comment #31 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-644292
1 - comment #37 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-646736
2 - comment #38 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-646762
3 - comment #39 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-646771
4 - comment #40 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-646796
5 - comment #42 / Page 3
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-646844
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-652600
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-646736
2 - comment #38 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-646762
3 - comment #39 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-646771
4 - comment #40 / Page 2
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-2#post-646796
5 - comment #42 / Page 3
http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-646844
Seperate instance
1 - comment #47 / Page 3http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...revisionary-scrutiny.27193/page-3#post-652600
Thank you list for contributions through disccuion that convinced me to make changes
@Rough Draft
@Daminus
Please do not vote if you have a problem or suggestion and don't post it first. I (or someone else) could answer any questions and help make sure you've avoided misunderstanding. I'm currently giving feedback daily so it shouldn't take more than twenty four hours for a reply.
Last edited: