Weapons & Equip The grand design needs to be nerfed or made into a hardmode item

[Hie the Badger]

Lets be honest the GD itself really doesn't get you much in terms of power. You can just now wire up buildings without having to bounce off the walls like a spastic beach ball.

 

[ManaUser]

Mechanics lens can be bought in hardmode, or maybe after 1 mech boss.

Giving it to the Steampunker seems like a logical way to achieve that.
And personally, I would move the logic gates to the cyborg, just to space things out, plus it makes more sense for him to have them.

 

[Mr. Mastodon Farm]

Giving it to the Steampunker seems like a logical way to achieve that.
And personally, I would move the logic gates to the cyborg, just to space things out, plus it makes more sense for him to have them.

that could work, but I think the and, or, etc. logic gates could go to the regular mechanic, and the more specialized ones (liquid sensor, night/day sensor, etc.) could be bought from the cyborg. Maybe even give the cyborg timers? why not? (not as a replacement for crafting them, more as a convenience. I feel like the cyborg deserves more stuff).


to be more on topic though, traps are only really troubling up to, and during the pre-hardmode dungeon. After the dungeon, you're geared up enough that they don't deal enough damage to cause any real trouble, and even before the grand design, you could just go around snipping wires and it was no big deal. Nerfing it wouldn't really fix much, what needs to be fixed is the traps themselves.

 

[AlecHero]

Just stop this nonsense its a wiring item it isnt op you can see traps? you could do that before. Does that change anything being able to see traps? no. I play expert, traps makes no difference. Except if you cant see for and get hit by all traps.
If it is "too op" stop using it. it isnt like every thing in the game has to be made for YOU. i like it and i dont "exploit it" and iam pretty sure speedrunners and letsplayers never will use these "tecniques"

is this Reddit?

 

[Hie the Badger]

Since the OP isn't defending his idea, I don't think it's a serious idea. Or it's an idea bomb. But either way if the grand design gets nerfed like this I will just use my main to piece together grand designs and either give them away or sell them for a competitive price.

 

[SpectreFKD]

The fact is not that you can merely see traps - what a couple of us have outlined is that it makes the Lihzard temple a joke since all of the traps can be easily destroyed. The whole point of that dungeon is for the traps to actually be a threat. Yes - you could just "not use it" - but it is an issue that needed to be addressed.

 

[Hie the Badger]

The whole point is for you to not use it if you are offended by it's function. In the name of constructive criticism you should be making the jungle temple unbreakable by early game tools instead of the other way around. Thats one good way to look at it. But everyone seems to hiss at the item.

Temple wires. Make it happen.

 

[Mr. Mastodon Farm]

I don't think anyone is "offended" by it. frankly it's just a very powerful tool, and while it's not totally breaking anything, it has highlighted one of the problems with traps.

frankly, traps in general are bad. either they're ineffective by mid-late game, like dart traps, or they're overly effective, like explosive traps. they're kind of a mess...

I haven't encountered the new trap type yet, since I haven't made any new worlds lately, but here's hoping it works a bit differently.

 

[darthmorf]

@Agastya Not sure about that (the logic weirds me), but I guess there could be something like a "Lizhard Circuit Breaker" generated with the temple that takes a Picksaw level tool to smash, and you can't cut (maybe even see) wires in the temple until it's broken. That would eliminate my biggest complaint.

this is a way better idea, yeah. i mean, even the golem's altar could be the circuit breaker if you didn't want to add another block or anything. as long as the altar is in the temple, you can't see the wires in the temple. that way you can just go in and smash the altar and then harvest a bunch of wire and traps and the like

i'm okay with a lot of things as long as we don't have to defeat golem on every new world just to harvest a few traps.

To me this seems like the right solution.
IMO you shouldn't even be able to place blocks in the temple until the altar has been broken.

 

[SpectreFKD]

The whole point is for you to not use it if you are offended by it's function. In the name of constructive criticism you should be making the jungle temple unbreakable by early game tools instead of the other way around. Thats one good way to look at it. But everyone seems to hiss at the item.

Temple wires. Make it happen.

I don't have a problem with the item at all; I love it! I'm just a little concerned, as you've rightly outlined about how pathetic the Jungle temple is - the traps are the main danger. I totally agree - Temple wires seem viable, or as previously outlined - making it so the altar prevents anything being placed/broken inside it until the altar breaks (which is after Golem is defeated) which could be possible, since you can't teleport in there until the door is open.

I don't know if you'd agree, but I included it in my suggestion - make the traps activated by player sensors?

 

[Hie the Badger]

They had it right with how they locked up the dungeon. The skeleton heads appearing to one hit you. With the temple it could be voodoo heads or something. That will fix this issue straight away. No more need for nerf knights to flail around.

 

[SpectreFKD]

All I'm suggesting is - rather than nerf TGD, buff the Lihzahrd temple - then we please both sides
[doublepost=1465326649,1465326138][/doublepost]

To me this seems like the right solution.
IMO you shouldn't even be able to place blocks in the temple until the altar has been broken.

I like this - I like this a LOT

 

[Mille Marteaux]

To me this seems like the right solution.
IMO you shouldn't even be able to place blocks in the temple until the altar has been broken.

That'd be pretty neat as well, yeah. Golem becomes a fair bit more threatening when it doesn't spawn in a pre-constructed box that traps it. Especially so if there's still traps laying around.

They had it right with how they locked up the dungeon. The skeleton heads appearing to one hit you. With the temple it could be voodoo heads or something. That will fix this issue straight away. No more need for nerf knights to flail around.

You want players to be instantly killed for trying to place/remove blocks in a pre-Golem temple? That sounds terrible.

 

[Hie the Badger]

That'd be pretty neat as well, yeah. Golem becomes a fair bit more threatening when it doesn't spawn in a pre-constructed box that traps it. Especially so if there's still traps laying around. You want players to be instantly killed for trying to place/remove blocks in a pre-Golem temple? That sounds terrible.

Since that's a strawman, I will take the liberty of adding it to my idea.

Entering the temple as well as placing temple blocks/walls should cause voodoo heads to come and one hit you.

That will also keep me from always finding another way to get in dispite the fixes. Theoretically.

 

[Snickerbobble]

Since that's a strawman, I will take the liberty of adding it to my idea.

Entering the temple as well as placing temple blocks/walls should cause voodoo heads to come and one hit you.

That will also keep me from always finding another way to get in dispite the fixes. Theoretically.

Well, if that's not what you meant, then what? Insta killing heads sounds more of a pre-plantera entry solution than a disarming traps solution. So either you listed a solution for the wrong issue, or you wanted insta kill on attempt to disarm, unless I'm missing something?

 

[Warpshard]

Well, if that's not what you meant, then what? Insta killing heads sounds more of a pre-plantera entry solution than a disarming traps solution. So either you listed a solution for the wrong issue, or you wanted insta kill on attempt to disarm, unless I'm missing something?

It is only a way to keep players from entering the Temple Pre-Plantera, which isn't an issue, since you can only get in if you already have the Picksaw or the Temple Key from another world.

I think a good way to fix the Grand Design's power, as a variation of an idea presented earlier in the thread, would be to have wires in the Jungle temple only be made visible after Golem has been defeated once. Golem may be easy, but it took me ten tries before I got my first Picksaw, so I think tying the wires to the Altar still being there is a bit unfair.

 

[ManaUser]

I agree, it probably makes more sense to having defeating Golem do it. Lots of things are tied to defeating bosses after all.

 

[Kefke]

They had it right with how they locked up the dungeon. The skeleton heads appearing to one hit you. With the temple it could be voodoo heads or something. That will fix this issue straight away. No more need for nerf knights to flail around.

Actually, that doesn't address the problem at-all. The temple already quite effectively prevents players from entering early. The issue is that even at the correct level of progression, there are numerous items a player can have that would completely negate a large part of the intended challenge.

...and an anti-build zone isn't a perfect solution either, because the terrain generator is prone to screwing up sometimes. Maybe, though, Lizhard traps could break or otherwise pass through blocks (below a certain strength/range)? That would make it impractical to just bridge past them, and replacing pressure plates with sensors could make "cover the plate" ineffective as well - though that comes with the side effect of preventing players from being able to see and evade triggers, unless they were a special kind of sensor that is a) Lizhard strong, b) close enough to the surface to see, and c) detects not only for the player to be in proximity, but also on the ground (as opposed to in the air or grappling the ceiling)...or else have a much shorter than normal proximity sense (though that would mean they could still be built past).

 

[SpectreFKD]

They easily prevented teleportation into the temple until it's open - so negating block building/breaking things in the temple until golem is defeated at least once sounds viable.
I actually made a suggestion based around this, that I'm looking for feedback on - I may add some of these ideas into it eventually

@Kefke this is the range of a sensor - if you're outside the box it doesn't spot you - so grappling to the ceiling is somewhat viable, except you need to get the chests!

 

[Snickerbobble]

To those saying the temple does a good job at keeping players out..

I disagree

There is also the method of digging a wide hellevator down to the temple, and placing a chest every screen on the surface, to force a meteor to hit the temple, which you can mine through.

The altar is programmed to not function unless Plantera is defeated, though. But this is still a good way to force eclipses pre-Plantera.

Anyway, I quite like the motion detectors and invisible wires pre-Golem idea. Even without the Grand Design the pressure plates are too easy to spot out (and then there are the traps themselves as well). It'll make it a little trickier to get through the temple.