Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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Dunno about expert or master, but in normal rushing golem->martian->pillars works fine, and it is less work than doing the optional events. A slight buff to golem and cultist would work. Buffing pillars or normalmode martians would be a worse alternative, as it would make them grindier.
 
I am convinced that Turtle armor needs further buffs. Right now the issue is that you never want to take damage to benefit from its thorns effect; it's still too costly. Reducing damage taken was a good start, but the set bonus still isn't enough to make it worth it. If a small amount of life regeneration were added to its set bonus, such as 2 per second like Squire's Great Helm, you could actually afford to take damage and benefit from the thorns effect, and there would be more incentive to wear the whole set.

Shroomite armor could also use a stealth buff. Maybe it could be upgraded to be toggleable like Vortex armor's stealth is, instead of having to stand still. Right now, a lot of people think that the set bonus is useless (or even a detriment) outside PvP and multiplayer. Having it be toggleable would fix this issue. If necessary, its stealth damage bonuses could be rebalanced; also its movement speed while stealthed should be slower than Vortex armor's.

There could also be more transparency about how Shroomite headgear bonuses are applied. Something like "Multiplies arrow/rocket/bullet damage by 115%" would better indicate that the helmets multiply damage after other bonuses, rather than stacking with them.

Furthermore, the Shroomite Breastplate increases ranged damage by 13%, which is not mentioned by the tooltip. It only mentions the 13% increase of critical strike chance.
 
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Shroomite armor could also use a stealth buff. Maybe it could be upgraded to be toggleable like Vortex armor's stealth is, instead of having to stand still. Right now, a lot of people think that the set bonus is useless (or even a detriment) outside PvP and multiplayer. Having it be toggleable would fix this issue. If necessary, its stealth damage bonuses could be rebalanced; also its movement speed while stealthed should be slower than Vortex armor's.
I think the reason shroomite's setbonus is weak is because it has good raw stats, the shroomite breastplate by itself yields more cumulative damage and crit chance to ranged than the whole offensive beetle set does for melee. The offensive spectre set has less offense for magic than just the plate and legs of shroomite for ranged attacks.
 
I have been using Snowman Cannon as a ranger and I honestly think that this weapon is borderline broken. It deals insane DPS, homes on enemies so you barely need to aim, has great AoE with mini nukes, and it can't harm you. I see no reason to use any other weapon now since this weapon destroys everything with little effort, with absolutely no drawbacks.
 
Dunno about expert or master, but in normal rushing golem->martian->pillars works fine, and it is less work than doing the optional events. A slight buff to golem and cultist would work. Buffing pillars or normalmode martians would be a worse alternative, as it would make them grindier.
Pillars and Martians are defintelly strong enough as they are. Golem and Lunatic are way weaker then most of the other bosses though
 
A wild idea
Out of all these, I'm actually in favor of the Pygmy Necklace being a pre-hardmode accessory.
In 1.2, when I was a young Summoner, I was ecstatic at the huge boost in power the Pygmy items provided; so much in fact that I even replaced my Frostspark Boots with the Pygmy Necklace. It sounds stupid, but Expert mode didn't exist back then, so I could afford to sacrifice my mobility for more minion power.

Fast forward to today, imagine sacrificing one of the things that keeps you alive for a very measly boost of one minion. On Master mode.
Even with the new Master accessory slot, you're gonna want to use that for one of the new accessories like the Frog Gear (or even the Soaring Insignia if you're post-Empress), while the Demon Heart acts like a dedicated Emblem slot (or in this case, Papyrus Scarab slot). That, and the Tiki/Spooky sets, plus the Bewitching Table and even the Summoning Potion give you plenty of minions to work with.
Some time ago I was thinking of the possibility of a pre-hardmode Summoner accessory. There's not much you can do outside of minion count and minion damage, and the Pygmy Necklace already exists in the latter half of hardmode.
So if it won't be used too much on higher difficulties, why not just move it down to pre-hardmode? In the form of a craftable item or even something found in shrines or Jungle Crates.
I was about to suggest making it always available from the Witch Doctor but then that would gate it behind Queen Bee which kinda defeats the point, lol.
 
Chlorophyte armor should receive some buffs to make it a solid alternative to Hallowed armor.

Apprentice armor could also use some raw stats buffs. Its damage bonus (10%) is currently the lowest among the level 1 tavernkeep armors, and its -10% mana usage is also quite low. If both were increased to 15%, it would be a good improvement.
 
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Apprentice armor could also use some raw stats buffs. Its damage bonus (10%) is currently the lowest among the level 1 tavernkeep armors, and its -10% mana usage is also quite low. If both were increased to 15%, it would be a good improvement.
the legs have 20% magic crit on them, it wasn't stated in the tooltip before journey's end though
 
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Can't you just select a different item? Unless you're actively holding it, wires won't be visible (unless you turned on wire perma-visibility).
Sorry, I'm an idiot. There was a button I misses, that is automatically on, and all I had to do was click it. I am so blind. If it is on, you can see the wires as long as the Grand Design is in your inventory.
 
the legs have 20% magic crit on them, it wasn't stated in the tooltip before journey's end though
They do. Unfortunately, it still isn't enough. I'll quote Jota's post again: "The 3 sentry slots and 30% Minion damage are still amazing, but the rest of this armor is not. Those stats are simply too low to be good. I don't know and I don't care about how much the Set Bonus improves Flameburst sentries because they are still worse than the Queen Spider and range is nothing significant when you use them again in Tier 3."

I've decided to go over all the Tavernkeep armors and propose changes to them.

Level 1 Armors

The current bonuses of the level 1 armors are as follows:
– All: +30% minion damage, +2 sentry slots, +20% movement speed
– Squire armor: +58 defense, +15% melee damage, +20% melee crit chance, +2 HP/sec
– Monk armor: +46 defense, +20% melee damage, +10% melee crit chance, +20% melee attack speed
– Huntress armor: +36 defense, +20% ranged damage, +10% ranged crit chance
– Apprentice armor: +32 defense, +10% magic damage, +20% magic crit chance, -10% mana usage

Apprentice armor's bonuses are rather low compared to the others, and it also has the lowest defence. I propose that it receive +10% magic damage in addition to its current bonuses (to have symmetry with the Dark Artist set).

I think Huntress armor could also use a buff, as it has no unique bonus like the others – perhaps a 20% chance not to consume ammo.

The Monk armor also has 12 less defense than the Squire armor, 10% less crit chance, and loses out on the Squire armor's health regen, in return for +5% damage and +20% attack speed. The Squire armor probably needs a minor stats nerf (such as reversing its 1.4 defence buff), and the Monk armor should get a moderate stats buff to make them equal alternatives.

Level 2 Armors

The level 2 armors:
– All: +60% minion damage, +3 sentry slots
– Valhalla Knight armor: +68 defence, +20% melee crit chance, +4 HP/sec, +30% movement speed
– Shinobi Infiltrator armor: +54 defence, +20% melee damage, +20% melee crit chance, +20% movement and melee attack speed
– Red Riding armor: +48 defence, +25% ranged damage, +10% ranged crit chance, +20% movement speed
– Dark Artist armor: +42 defence, +25% magic damage, +25% magic crit chance

For some reason, the Valhalla Knight set completely loses the Squire armor's boost to melee damage. It should have at least +15% melee damage, the amount granted by the Squire armor. I suggest moving 10% of the breastplate's minion damage to the helm, and having the helm provide +20% melee damage. To compensate, its 1.4 defence buff should be reversed, and its movement speed bonus should be reduced to 20% to match the other Tavernkeep armors.

If the Valhalla Knight set gains a damage bonus, the Shinobi Infiltrator set should also receive buffs to ensure it doesn't become outclassed. I suggest +5% melee damage and +5% movement and melee attack speed.

The Red Riding armor is a marginal upgrade over the Huntress armor. While it provides 8 more defence and +5% ranged damage, it's not powerful enough for where it sits in the progression, and it pales in comparison to Shroomite armor. I propose that it receive +10% crit chance, +10% movement speed, and a +25% chance not to consume ammo. Also, Explosive Traps really need to be made viable so that the armor can actually benefit from its set bonus.

Dark Artist armor is in a good place, but has no discount to mana usage like Apprentice armor, and is the only Tavernkeep armor not to have a movement speed boost. This seems like an oversight. I propose that +20% movement speed boost be added to the leggings, and that -10% mana usage be added to the hat.

Tavernkeep Sentries

All the Tavernkeep sentries could use buffs to increase their viability. I've already mentioned Explosive Traps. Lightning Aura is in need of it the least, but Ballistas and Flameburst sentries are currently mediocre and could both use some love.
 
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So I just finished my summoner playthrough I thought I would give feedback on the new stuff i managed to get.

Finch Staff: & Leather Whip: Good starting weapons for summoner.
Snap Thorn: Seems to be a bit underwhelming as its the last whip you get until you defeat the wall of flesh.
Dark Harvest: This made post-plantera much easier. -_-
Kaliedoscope: I actually do not like this item, for one reason. It's too OP, once you get it your can rip just about anything apart. Needs a nerf.
Terraprism: I would say this is OP, but this is literately the hardest item to obtain right now even more so then the bone key from the dungeon guardian lol.
Berserker Glove: Autoswing + Whip = ownage. I love it!
 
So I just finished my summoner playthrough I thought I would give feedback on the new stuff i managed to get.

Finch Staff: & Leather Whip: Good starting weapons for summoner.

How did you get your finch staff to hit anything instead of flying around it in circles?
 
So I just finished my summoner playthrough I thought I would give feedback on the new stuff i managed to get.
Snap Thorn: Seems to be a bit underwhelming as its the last whip you get until you defeat the wall of flesh.
I think the problem isn't that Snapthorn is bad, it's just that there are no other Whips between Snapthorn and Firecracker. Hopefully 1.4.1 adds a few more.
 
Pygmy Necklace being made available pre-hardmode would solve most all the early game summoner issues. However it might be too much since summoning potions and the Bewitching Table pre hardmode... 6 minions vs WoF seems pretty busted.
 
All the summon weapons introduced in 1.4, with the apparent exception of the Vampire Frog staff, use the Deadly Sphere Staff use sound effect, which is very metallic and digital-sounding. It doesn't suit many of the new summon weapons well at all, as it was intended to be the unique sound of the Deadly Sphere Staff. It seems almost as if the sound effect just got copied when the new items were created, and was never changed.

Summoner Weapon Sounds
Item_44 – The default summoner weapon sound. A diminutive croak.
Item_76 – The unique sound of the Hornet Staff. A fluttering whoosh.
Item_77 – The unique sound of the Imp Staff. A hollow whoosh.
Item_82 – The unique sound of the Optic Staff. A mechanical whoosh.
Item_83 – The unique sound of the Spider Staff. A chittering whoosh.
Item_113 – Formerly the unique sound of the Deadly Sphere Staff. A robotic/arcane whoosh. Currently used for six staves, five of which are new.

Meanwhile, large numbers of summon weapons introduced in previous updates still use the Item_44 sound effect, including both Stardust staves. The sound is extremely basic, and, in my opinion, ill-suited to the endgame summon staves.

Below are my suggestions for what I think should be changed, along with my reasoning:

Pre-Hardmode Summon Weapons
Finch Staff — Item_113 -> Item_44 (Item_44 is the best fit here, as it sounds like a small animal.)
Slime Staff — Item_44
Hornet Staff — Item_76
Vampire Frog Staff — Item_44
Imp Staff — Item_77

Hardmode Summon Weapons
Spider Staff — Item_83
Blade Staff — Item_113 -> Item_77 (The Imp Staff's sound is the most neutral of the sounds, and I think it suits an arcane dagger.)
Sanguine Staff — Item_113 -> Item_83 (The chittering Spider Staff sound is well-suited to a bat minion.)
Optic Staff — Item_82
Pirate Staff — Item_44
Pygmy Staff — Item_44
Raven Staff — Item_44
Desert Tiger Staff — Item_113 -> Item_77 (The Desert Tiger sound should be more majestic than Item_44, but not robotic like it is now. Once again, the Imp Staff's sound is the best fit.)
Tempest Staff — Item_44 -> Item_77 (The Imp Staff's whoosh is a better fit for an arcane shark-hurling whirlpool than the unassuming Item_44.)
Deadly Sphere Staff — Item_113
Xeno Staff — Item_44 -> Item_82 (The Optic Staff sound fits the flavour of a Martian Saucer better than Item_44.)
Stardust Cell Staff — Item_44 -> Item_113 (Item_113 sounds both technological and arcane, giving the Stardust staves the dramatic sound they deserve.)
Stardust Dragon Staff — Item_44 -> Item_113 (See above.)
Terraprisma — Item_113 (This one can be left as is, as the Deadly Sphere Staff sound already suits it well.)

I also have a suggestion for changes to the Sentry sound effects. For some reason, the Rainbow Crystal Staff and Lunar Portal Staff use the same sound effect as the Queen Spider Staff, which is very chittery and spider-like. It's too specific, and was obviously created for that staff alone. I think the two Moon Lord staves should use the same sounds as the Staff of the Frost Hydra.

(Clarification: The Queen Spider Staff and Staff of the Frost Hydra have both a "Use" sound effect and "Summon" sound effect. The Moon Lord staves only have a "Use" sound effect.)

Hardmode Sentry Staves (Tavernkeep sentries not included, as they have their own set of consistent sound effects.)
Queen Spider Staff — Item_78 + Item_46
Staff of the Frost Hydra — Item_1 + Item_46
Rainbow Crystal Staff — Item_78 -> [Item_1 + Item_46] (Change to same pair of sounds as Staff of the Frost Hydra.)
Lunar Portal Staff — Item_78 -> [Item_1 + Item_46] (Change to same pair of sounds as Staff of the Frost Hydra.)

(Possibly, Item_113 + Item_46 could be used for the Moon Lord staves.)
 
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(This was found in 1.4.0.4, may have been fixed already)

I noticed a probable balance error with Water Chests, though they really aren't items I suppose. I've seen one spawn in one or two blocks of water, and the top was even sticking out. This is the kind of thing that feels... wrong, considering normally Water Chests are found in deep bodies of water, like underground lakes or oceans. Could this be fixed? Maybe an algorithm to determine the depth of the water and then insert the chest depending on its level would work better.

It doesn't really feel like a Water Chest if it's in a puddle.

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Getting the finch to hit things is easy use a whip.
Also I feel I need to mention that the Frost moon lacks any progression for the summoner class builds. I usually skip it since I do that build most the time.
 
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