Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

[Mental Mouse]

The Summoner Accessories seem to need to be reworked as most improve damage as well as other things on top of that.

Ogre Accessory (+10 Summon Damage, +1 Sentry)
Summoner Emblem (+15 Summon Damage)
Hercules Beetle(+15 Summon Damage, +2 Minion Knockback)
Necromantic Scroll (+10 Summon Damage, +1 Minion)
Papyrus Scarab (+15 Summon Damage, +2 Minion Knockback, +1 Minion)
Pygmy Necklace (+1 Minion)

This adds up to +65% Minion Damage, +4 Minion Knockback, +3 Minions, and +1 Sentry.
Make those all menacing and thats an addition 28%. And with the damage boost from armor you can easily do more then double damage and greatly increases their knockback beyond to more then 200% for most minions and can even reach insane knockback on some sentries.

As I’ve said in other contexts, if you’re going to sink five (or more) accessory slots into one role, you deserve to get serious power in that role.

A separate suggestion for summoners: I’ve seen a lot of complaints about their slow startup — the slime staff has a .01% drop rate, and the Finch staff is only found in 1/3 Living Tree chests (so, maybe you get one in a world, maybe not).

How about adding the Finch Staff to the Sky Chest and Sky Crate loot pools? That would make them much more reliably available —somewhat later in the early game, but potentially well before a player can fight for a Vampire Frog.

 

[Leinfors]

It's good. Thank you very much.

To tell you the truth, my screen size is 60 blocks on one side, so I want you to recover to 60 blocks.
But I can't complain. Because it is certain that you will cure The Scutlix's eyes.
Good luck with that.
I'm also looking forward to implementing damage buffs.

But if it's really possible, I'd like to see A Scutlix who can aim 60 blocks ahead.
If it's not too late, could you set the Scutlix attack distance to 60 blocks?
Of course, if it is not possible, there is no problem in 50 or 51 blocks.

Its physically possible, but it was reduced for a reason. The higher its set, the more performance impact it has. The reduction was probably too significant, so we are compromising, but I'm not comfortable setting it back to 60. This isn't a balance issue, and I think performance issues take precedent over balance.

 

[Milotic609]

Hi, I only wanted to say one thing, ive been enjoying journeys end and have completed 99% of the bestiary the only problem is that i am playing on a for the worthy seed and as you know every bunny is an exploding bunny but that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to get a corrupt/vicious bunny counterpart, if you choose crimson there is no way of fighting a corrupt bunny, I selected crimson and I found that xmas bunnies on blood moon can be converted to vicious bunnies but corrupt ones are unavailable, If only exploding bunnies can be converted thru the evil powders or make birthday bunnies affected by powders, that would make the for the worthy bestiary possible, if someone knows a way to do it please message me

 

[Dragrath]

Hi, I only wanted to say one thing, ive been enjoying journeys end and have completed 99% of the bestiary the only problem is that i am playing on a for the worthy seed and as you know every bunny is an exploding bunny but that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to get a corrupt/vicious bunny counterpart, if you choose crimson there is no way of fighting a corrupt bunny, I selected crimson and I found that xmas bunnies on blood moon can be converted to vicious bunnies but corrupt ones are unavailable, If only exploding bunnies can be converted thru the evil powders or make birthday bunnies affected by powders, that would make the for the worthy bestiary possible, if someone knows a way to do it please message me

What about statues and or an imported stack of bunnies do they get similarly replaced? If not that might be a place for compromise so the bestiary is completeable

 

[JohannSimm]

Hi, I only wanted to say one thing, ive been enjoying journeys end and have completed 99% of the bestiary the only problem is that i am playing on a for the worthy seed and as you know every bunny is an exploding bunny but that makes it IMPOSSIBLE to get a corrupt/vicious bunny counterpart, if you choose crimson there is no way of fighting a corrupt bunny, I selected crimson and I found that xmas bunnies on blood moon can be converted to vicious bunnies but corrupt ones are unavailable, If only exploding bunnies can be converted thru the evil powders or make birthday bunnies affected by powders, that would make the for the worthy bestiary possible, if someone knows a way to do it please message me

The same issue also affects Demons in the Underworld, because For the Worthy replaces them all with Voodoo Demons.

This is probably a topic for the bug report forum though.

 

[Milotic609]

What about statues and or an imported stack of bunnies do they get similarly replaced? If not that might be a place for compromise so the bestiary is completeable

The statues and normal bunnies get replaced by explosive bunnies

 

[SapphireSuicune]

Maybe a small thing but I've been trying to get a Zombie Frog summon for a while now, I got over 6 bows and no summons after killing over 20 of them on master mode, at this point we've done EoW which allows you to obtain the Fire Imp staff easily which also probably outclasses it. (Still haven't got it). There seems to be a huge gap between summon weapons early pre-hardmode in that regard. (Since the bee staff is also locked behind queen bee and Queen Bee is mostly fought after EoW)

(I'd consider the Slime Staff but the drop rate is still neglectable) Also the finch staff seems to knock enemies towards the player which has been a nuisance.

That turned out to be a bit more than a small thing.

The same happened to me but I got 5 fishing poles

 

[Turndog]

Its physically possible, but it was reduced for a reason. The higher its set, the more performance impact it has. The reduction was probably too significant, so we are compromising, but I'm not comfortable setting it back to 60. This isn't a balance issue, and I think performance issues take precedent over balance.

I understood the situation.
I'm not going to say anything more about the recovery of the attack distance.
Instead, we look forward to implementing damage buffs that can compensate for losses due to the decrease in attack distance that you mentioned earlier.
Good luck with that.

 

[Dragrath]

The statues and normal bunnies get replaced by explosive bunnies

I had feared as much good luck in hoping they make a way to complete the bestiary in For The Worthy worlds

 

[J Bame]

Random but potentially interesting idea: Replace the Obsidian Skull in Obsidian Water Walking Boots' recipe with an Obsidian Horseshoe.

This would give Terraspark an actual relevant effect in combat that Lightning Boots dont have (remember that Soaring Insignia doesnt prevent fall damage) and it's an easy way to give the Obisidian horseshoe a reason to exist.

 

[Mental Mouse]

Random but potentially interesting idea: Replace the Obsidian Skull in Obsidian Water Walking Boots' recipe with an Obsidian Horseshoe.

This would give Terraspark an actual relevant effect in combat that Lightning Boots dont have (remember that Soaring Insignia doesnt prevent fall damage) and it's an easy way to give the Obisidian horseshoe a reason to exist.

Giving the Terraspark boots fall protection would be a major balance shift. Right now, they give ultimate ground mobility, but you still need to use another slot for fall protection -- a horseshoe balloon or (shortly) wings. If the Terraspark boots provided that, you could mostly just skip the balloon/wings (and use the slot for something else), except where you actually need the air time.

 

[J Bame]

Giving the Terraspark boots fall protection would be a major balance shift. Right now, they give ultimate ground mobility, but you still need to use another slot for fall protection -- a horseshoe balloon or (shortly) wings. If the Terraspark boots provided that, you could mostly just skip the balloon/wings (and use the slot for something else), except where you actually need the air time.

"except where you actually need the air time" So literally always because air mobility is incredibly important and the Rocket Boots are bad at that role so you need something else.

I really can't see how you'd find yourself flying so high up that you'd need to worry about fall damage with just Rocket Boots flight. Really the only time this is relevant is with Bundle of Balloons and the Soaring Insignia, and even then you'd still much rather use Amphibian Boots instead because it turns out that doubling your jump height and making wings ascend 50% faster is that much better than running a little bit faster or getting aerial mobility on the same level as a Cloud in a Bottle.

 

[SsIras]

Random but potentially interesting idea: Replace the Obsidian Skull in Obsidian Water Walking Boots' recipe with an Obsidian Horseshoe.

This would give Terraspark an actual relevant effect in combat that Lightning Boots don't have (remember that Soaring Insignia doesn't prevent fall damage) and it's an easy way to give the Obisidian horseshoe a reason to exist.

I agree with this, but I still think the added effects of Terraspark are still very underrated, lava damage is still a nuisance at any point of the game, sparing time and inventory space to carry potions to counter this effect isn't very resourceful. You could say that Terraspark isn't worth the time of getting all the components, but same could be said about a lot of other items, including Frostspark Boots.
Regardless that does seem like an interesting solution for Obsidian Horseshoe, the only real problem is that it would make obtaining Terraspark even more complicated, you often don't find many horseshoes laying around for you to spend freely.

 

[J Bame]

I agree with this, but I still think the added effects of Terraspark are still very underrated, lava damage is still a nuisance at any point of the game, sparing time and inventory space to carry potions to counter this effect isn't very resourceful.

It's less resourceful to spend a long time getting the obscenely rare Lava Waders, an item that is easily replaced by two very common potions that will last for longer than you will need them and do their job better. Now with Void bag and the greatly increased potion duration we have more space than ever for just two potions you will sometimes need.

Regardless that does seem like an interesting solution for Obsidian Horseshoe, the only real problem is that it would make obtaining Terraspark even more complicated, you often don't find many horseshoes laying around for you to spend freely.

Doesn't really matter. Almost all the time that goes into getting Terraspark is spent on the Water Walking Boots and the Lava Charm. Worst case scenario you just make a new world, drink a gravity potion, and pick another one up from an island.

 

[SsIras]

It's less resourceful to spend a long time getting the obscenely rare Lava Waders, an item that is easily replaced by two very common potions that will last for longer than you will need them and do their job better. Now with Void bag and the greatly increased potion duration we have more space than ever for just two potions you will sometimes need.



Doesn't really matter. Almost all the time that goes into getting Terraspark is spent on the Water Walking Boots and the Lava Charm. Worst case scenario you just make a new world, drink a gravity potion, and pick another one up from an island.

Yeah, that's fair. I don't think this brings much impact to balance, it will buff Terraspark boots some, but probably won't break the game even if that means freeing an accessory slot.

 

[Mental Mouse]

"except where you actually need the air time" So literally always because air mobility is incredibly important and the Rocket Boots are bad at that role so you need something else.

I really can't see how you'd find yourself flying so high up that you'd need to worry about fall damage with just Rocket Boots flight. Really the only time this is relevant is with Bundle of Balloons and the Soaring Insignia, and even then you'd still much rather use Amphibian Boots instead because it turns out that doubling your jump height and making wings ascend 50% faster is that much better than running a little bit faster or getting aerial mobility on the same level as a Cloud in a Bottle.

Going downward, or when clambering around with hooks... the Terraspark boots themselves do have fair range, to the point where you can indeed get some air mobility out of them, especially when combined with hooks -- until you misjudge a fall. Yes, there are other ways to counter fall damage, but the problem is when you get into one of Those Situations, where you're out of jumps, missed the grapple, or just didn't react in time. The range from "took some fall damage" to "<you> didn't bounce" is always unexpectedly small.... Not needing to worry about it at all, that's significant, and the TSB's already provide "don't need to worry" for lava, along with "water (and lava/honey) is a platform".

Doesn't really matter. Almost all the time that goes into getting Terraspark is spent on the Water Walking Boots and the Lava Charm. Worst case scenario you just make a new world, drink a gravity potion, and pick another one up from an island.

No argument where the time is, but both of those can be had by grinding fishing, and Horseshoes even more easily.

Yeah, that's fair. I don't think this brings much impact to balance, it will buff Terraspark boots some, but probably won't break the game even if that means freeing an accessory slot.

Freeing an accessory slot is fairly big -- not game-breaking, but definitely a shift to balance.

 

[Pigman Δ]

Going downward, or when clambering around with hooks... the Terraspark boots themselves do have fair range, to the point where you can indeed get some air mobility out of them, especially when combined with hooks -- until you misjudge a fall. Yes, there are other ways to counter fall damage, but the problem is when you get into one of Those Situations, where you're out of jumps, missed the grapple, or just didn't react in time. The range from "took some fall damage" to "<you> didn't bounce" is always unexpectedly small.... Not needing to worry about it at all, that's significant, and the TSB's already provide "don't need to worry" for lava, along with "water (and lava/honey) is a platform".

No argument where the time is, but both of those can be had by grinding fishing, and Horseshoes even more easily.

Freeing an accessory slot is fairly big -- not game-breaking, but definitely a shift to balance.

Ok, so, this is a Terraspark Boots debate, I'm going to add a little to it.
@Jota Bame I think Terrasparks are already incredibly useful, especially during the WoF fight, where you need both Frostspark speed to run away from the rapidly advancing Wall and Wader's ability to walk on lava so that you don't get singed. HOWEVER I do agree with you on the front that they are FAR too hard to get, to the point where I used Terraria Tweaker 2 to add a recipe for both Water Walking and Lava Charm. Those two certainly need to be easier to get. (I do like the Obsidian Horseshoe idea, who doesn't like an obscenely OP accessory? )

 

[qwerty3.14]

It's a lot easier to just grab a water walking potion and an obsidian skin potion than it is get the lava waders, and those two potions combined do everything the lava waders do just as well if not better.

 

[Human]

I apologize if this has been discussed before, but I think that all whips should autoswing by default. Their timings are extraordinarily annoying, unintuitive and inconsistent, causing their swing rate to spontaneously decrease for no apparent reason, plus it doesn't make sense for the player to have to equip a glove to swing them automatically, as it is a melee-oriented accessory and doesn't even give whips a damage boost, which makes gloves an even less sensible pick for a summoner. This is the one area where whips should move away from true melee weapons, in my opinion.

Besides, summoners could really use some QoL improvements.

 

[Mail]

I apologize if this has been discussed before, but I think that all whips should autoswing by default. Their timings are extraordinarily annoying, unintuitive and inconsistent, causing their swing rate to spontaneously decrease for no apparent reason...

The devs have already stated that they don't like solving this type of problem by giving a bunch of weapons autoswing.

...Now, if the question is "autofire for everything", that is a hard no because this is how Red made it. We might not have designed the game around lack of autoswing in the first place, knowing what we know, but its too ingrained in the current balance of the game and how much of it was designed to just be arbitrarily changed right now. ...

If this is a serious problem for you, I suggest using my mod, since this problem has an low chance of being addressed.