Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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By the way, this isn't necessarily a balance thing, but it is something that I'm really hoping to see addressed in 1.4.1, and I'm not sure where else to ask.
Will there ever be a solution to the way wings and shields cause capes to disappear? It's especially weird how something like the Hoverboard will do this, even though it doesn't look like it should at all. I understand that the idea is for the capes to not get in the way of the wings, but it's very strange that shields make them disappear, and that there's no possible way to have a cape visible if you have Wings in a vanity slot, with the one singular solution in the game to fly without your cape disappearing is to use Yoraiz0r's Spell, which is a pretty rare thing to find.
 
Mental Mouse said:
you'd need to just lose the Obsidian Skull effect, to avoid randomly powering up (or multiplying) the horseshoe balloons.
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That's exactly what I mean.

Also for the step stool, I think that making the stool part of player's hit box doesn't make sense, how you can be hurt by spikes when there is a stool between you and the spikes? And how you get damaged and poisoned when a dart hitting your stool you standing on?
 
CrabBar said:
Gravitation Potion is a droplet (albeit the most reliable one) in the cup of possibilities. Straightforward building ropes/sky bridges; simple snake charmer's flute; classy golf ball; 200iq ricochet shots/fallen stars; and even seeing some in plain sight in Small worlds.
Let alone the fact that Gravitation Potion itself has more sources than cavern chests/pots. You can obtain it by fishing, and Herb Bags can drop the required Fireblossom sometimes.

If something, sky loot most likely may require a locked chest system (like in FTW seed). However, post-Skeletron is as radical as pre-boss for the Sky items tier. Maybe post-EoC could suffice, but that would require new content, at very least locked chest sprites and a way to obtain key(s).

(and, well, taking away player's agency over gear choice isn't what I'd personally like to see, at least in pre-HM. There are worse offenders like Tinkerer's Workshop crafts including Spectre Boots being pre-boss post-goblin army, and even then it takes quite a dedication and knowledge to obtain so it's not entirely free)
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Yikes. If fledgling wings start warranting sky island attainability nerfs I'd rather they not be added outside of journey at all. Pre-HM already has plenty of decent mobility options, anyway.
 
Derpling Ω said:
... The +50% ascent speed to all wings the amphibian boots have makes for a massive spike to aerial mobility, which is probably the most important stat for hardmode boss fights. ...
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It shouldn't be impossible to change frog leg ascent speed to not be active when using wings. It feels wrong that it has become an item essential for midair mobility. It is currently an item that buffs wing effectiveness when it should have been an item that enabled an alternative play-style focused on using jumps effectively.
 
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CrabBar said:
Actually, there was one idea by Syed Zarrar Bokhari (they don't use forums but I'd like to credit them anyway) that Travelling Merchant could be possible source for the Pygmy Necklace.
It does make sense thematically, since, well, the necklace is quite an artifact to find in far lands.
The free tiering of Travelling Merchant's shop will allow for exact position of the item in terms of power scaling.
The only trouble is how random that source will end up to be (and Summoner already has quite a grim history of random to get items), but it may be fair to assume that this accessory is reliable enough to get in Summoner playthroughs that are naturally much slower anyway.

Other than that yes, due to specific jungle themed design of the item it is very hard to find a suitable spot for it that isn't Witch Doctor.
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Thanks for the mention, Crabbar! :)

I didn't actually think of the randomized effect, but it's as good a solution as any.

I also had the idea of moving the Pygmy Necklace to any of the Jungle chests like shrines or Living Mahogany, jungle fishing, golden chests because, as you said, diluting the loot pool would be great, or something similar. Honestly, anything that will help out Summoner in the early game.

I also have a couple non-balance related questions, Leinfors. I do have some ideas but I think it's too late (wish I had popped in earlier -_-) and not having played 1.4 personally (console gamers unite) I feel I'm not the best person to really put my own thoughts forward. If I think of something, I'll let you know:

1: After you guys retire from Terraria, if some sort of game-breaking bug (like the duck glitch) appears that won't necessarily break the game by crashing it or whatever, but is pretty wacky like the duck glitch, will you guys come back to fix said glitch? I assume you would if it's just after a couple of weeks, but what about a couple months or more?

2: Will you guys still be hanging out in the forums and Discord with the community after Terraria is finished?

Love what you guys have done, and cheers to the future! <3
 
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Mail said:
One thing that wasn't clearly pointed out is that the amphibian boots also increase falling speed. No other accessories increase falling speed. With late game wings the player falls much slower than they can ascend to the point where the player is much more likely to be hit by an attack while falling compared to ascending.

It shouldn't be impossible to change frog leg ascent speed to not be active when using wings. It feels wrong that it has become an item essential for midair mobility. It is currently an item that buffs wing effectiveness when it should have been an item that enabled an alternative play-style focused on using jumps effectively.
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None of the frog leg accesories seem to increase falling speed. Also late game wings don't increase falling speed I've tested all the late game wings and they all have a falling speed of 51 mph, which is the same as demon wings and other early hardmode wings.
 
CrabBar said:
Actually, there was one idea by Syed Zarrar Bokhari (they don't use forums but I'd like to credit them anyway) that Travelling Merchant could be possible source for the Pygmy Necklace.
It does make sense thematically, since, well, the necklace is quite an artifact to find in far lands.
The free tiering of Travelling Merchant's shop will allow for exact position of the item in terms of power scaling.
The only trouble is how random that source will end up to be (and Summoner already has quite a grim history of random to get items), but it may be fair to assume that this accessory is reliable enough to get in Summoner playthroughs that are naturally much slower anyway.

Other than that yes, due to specific jungle themed design of the item it is very hard to find a suitable spot for it that isn't Witch Doctor.
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Or it could be both? What if it were available pre-Queen Bee with the Traveling Merchant, but is a guaranteed item to get post-Queen Bee from the Witch Doctor? I dunno.
 
Mail said:
One thing that wasn't clearly pointed out is that the amphibian boots also increase falling speed. No other accessories increase falling speed. With late game wings the player falls much slower than they can ascend to the point where the player is much more likely to be hit by an attack while falling compared to ascending.

It shouldn't be impossible to change frog leg ascent speed to not be active when using wings. It feels wrong that it has become an item essential for midair mobility. It is currently an item that buffs wing effectiveness when it should have been an item that enabled an alternative play-style focused on using jumps effectively.
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The amph boots feel like quite a secret item, I've seen so many people say "terraspark boots betta cos lava munity and walky on likwid and i doo fliyng and stuffffff" and it takes a while to figure out that actually, the Amphibian Boots are better. I don't really think they need a massive nerf.
 
BlakeRossTheRabbit said:
Or it could be both? What if it were available pre-Queen Bee with the Traveling Merchant, but is a guaranteed item to get post-Queen Bee from the Witch Doctor? I dunno.
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I thought of something similar, but I couldn't justify the argument because I can't think of any unique item or weapon that comes from two completely different, unique sources. RoD will always come from Elementals, Slime Staff always from slimey bois, and one unique vendor item will always come from the same NPC.

How about giving the necklace to some kind of jungle enemy, that's kind of rare like the Bezoar but not Slime Staff rare? Any jungle enemy would fit to be honest, but the viney bois (Snatchers or Man Eaters?) would fit because you could make the argument that the 'necklace' part of it is made from vines. Idk, just throwing any ideas here that will make Summoner more viable, although I think you guys are doing more to help it out behind-the-scenes than you guys are letting on. ;):naughty:
 
The2ndComing said:
How about giving the necklace to some kind of jungle enemy, that's kind of rare like the Bezoar but not Slime Staff rare? Any jungle enemy would fit to be honest, but the viney bois (Snatchers or Man Eaters?) would fit because you could make the argument that the 'necklace' part of it is made from vines. Idk, just throwing any ideas here that will make Summoner more viable, although I think you guys are doing more to help it out behind-the-scenes than you guys are letting on. ;):naughty:
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This could work, but summoner is already notorious for getting much of their loot from rare enemy drops. Like a few other people suggested, Ivy Chest loot would be similar in that you need to venture into the jungle to get it and it would stick to theme, while also not making players grind enemies to get it.

Tbh, considering the fact that Leinfors already pushed through his changes, we might not get anything else done to the Pygmy Necklace, but it can’t hurt to give ideas and suggestions otherwise I wouldn’t be here either
 
Not sure whether this was mentioned, but the bestiary in the secret world seed Not the Bees! and For the Worthy are impossible to complete, the former missing black recluse and Stylist (other entry is possible by statues or artificial biomes) and latter missing normal bunny and demon. Also, maps created before 1.4 (or even earlier) could miss some bestiary entries.

Possible solutions: All player crafted spider walls to spawn spiders (and bound stylists). Allow normal bunny to spawning from statues not converted to explosive one, and allow normal demon to rarely spawn (revert normal and voodoo demon's rate instead of replace, or make this reversion happen only in hardmode) Also, allow the antlion eggs re-spawn in underground desert, also make it so that more than 1500 sand blocks underground will be considered this biome and spawn all related mobs (rather than using the background walls, or make player crafted walls count towards this biome)
 
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felis said:
Not sure whether this was mentioned, but the bestiary in the secret world seed Not the Bees! and For the Worthy are impossible to complete, the former missing black recluse and Stylist (other entry is possible by statues or artificial biomes) and latter missing normal bunny and demon.

Possible solutions: All player crafted spider walls to spawn spiders. Allow normal bunny to spawning from statues not converted to explosive one, and allow normal demon to rarely spawn (revert normal and voodoo demon's rate instead of replace, or make this reversion happen only in hardmode)
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Normal bunny spawns on a party, there is no party NPCs in the bestiary, so that’s McEnroe at least.
 
whoneedsnamestbh said:
This could work, but summoner is already notorious for getting much of their loot from rare enemy drops. Like a few other people suggested, Ivy Chest loot would be similar in that you need to venture into the jungle to get it and it would stick to theme, while also not making players grind enemies to get it.

Tbh, considering the fact that Leinfors already pushed through his changes, we might not get anything else done to the Pygmy Necklace, but it can’t hurt to give ideas and suggestions otherwise I wouldn’t be here either
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Yeah, but for lack of a better option, I chose that. Ivy Chest would be the easiest and best solution. And yeah, that's why I'm pretty mad I waited a little too long to join the thread.

felis said:
Not sure whether this was mentioned, but the bestiary in the secret world seed Not the Bees! and For the Worthy are impossible to complete, the former missing black recluse and Stylist (other entry is possible by statues or artificial biomes) and latter missing normal bunny and demon. Also, maps created before 1.4 (or even earlier) could miss some bestiary entries.

Possible solutions: All player crafted spider walls to spawn spiders (and bound stylists). Allow normal bunny to spawning from statues not converted to explosive one, and allow normal demon to rarely spawn (revert normal and voodoo demon's rate instead of replace, or make this reversion happen only in hardmode) Also, allow the antlion eggs re-spawn in underground desert, also make it so that more than 1500 sand blocks underground will be considered this biome and spawn all related mobs (rather than using the background walls)
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This has been addressed, I'm sure. :)

I'm not sure supporting maps before 1.4 is one their biggest priority list, tbh.
 
The2ndComing said:
I thought of something similar, but I couldn't justify the argument because I can't think of any unique item or weapon that comes from two completely different, unique sources. RoD will always come from Elementals, Slime Staff always from slimey bois, and one unique vendor item will always come from the same NPC.
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Hunter cloak —Traveling Merchant, or Clothier+golf score. ETA: AIUI, for a while they were apparently getting purchased for different prices, but I think that's been fixed.
 
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Leinfors said:
I see you identified the same issue I had. It would have been great to put it elsewhere. The Dungeon would have been a perfect location, and its even "almost" there (a little skull), but wasn't quite. I didn't want to stick it behind Queen Bee, but it was the only spot that worked, thematically.
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I have to agree with others here saying that the necklace could be added to Ivy Chests. I mean, other class specific accessories like the Feral Claws, the Band of Starpower and a Mana Flower can all be acquired without defeating a single boss as well.
If it still should require a boss to be defeated, the Dryad could sell it instead when she's located in the jungle. The jungle is her favorite location and the Witch Doctor her favorite neighbor after all, so I don't see why a jungle themed accessory wouldn't fit her inventory.
 
I have small but interesting idea for 1.4.1: new buff icons for some debuffs. If I remember correctly all debuffs caused by old one's army weapons ( for example " oiled" or betsys wrath ) have the most basic icon: blue and white background of buffs. Second is daybroken debuff, it's buff icon from stardust dragon summon. I know that they probably can't be applied to players but: 1) there are some mods that have mobs that are immune to those debuffs and they look really bad on the wiki page 2) it kinda just bothers me. It isn't that hard to do and I would be really happy about it
 
Kovex Play said:
I have small but interesting idea for 1.4.1: new buff icons for some debuffs. If I remember correctly all debuffs caused by old one's army weapons ( for example " oiled" or betsys wrath ) have the most basic icon: blue and white background of buffs. Second is daybroken debuff, it's buff icon from stardust dragon summon. I know that they probably can't be applied to players but: 1) there are some mods that have mobs that are immune to those debuffs and they look really bad on the wiki page 2) it kinda just bothers me. It isn't that hard to do and I would be really happy about it
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It isn't that hard to do but they have stated multiple times that they are beyond new sprites especially and when they can't be applied to players, unless you're on the wiki, you're not going to see them so what's the point? Besides, it's not their job to provide support for mods. :)
 
I just had an idea for buffing the ice skates without directly buffing the ice skates: making frozen platforms have ice physics.
It makes perfect sense thematically and gives you the ability to actually use them in boss arenas and benefit from their incredibly high acceleration and turning speed that’s normally limited to ice there.
 
Derpling Ω said:
I just had an idea for buffing the ice skates without directly buffing the ice skates: making frozen platforms have ice physics.
It makes perfect sense thematically and gives you the ability to actually use them in boss arenas and benefit from their incredibly high acceleration and turning speed that’s normally limited to ice there.
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Yes this would be great because well, I use ice platforms for my arena because well, i don’t really want to waste wood a lot, and it saves me from having to wait for trees to grow, this would be wonderful, and actually makes sense
 
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