1.4.4 Summoner Minion, Whip & Armor In-Depth Tier List

[AngryNimbus]

Great job, as always. I want to add some facts about Finch Staff. It can be used on Skeletron with good effectiveness, slightly outperforming Flinxes. When you have 5 or more minion slots (post-Skeletron & Obsidian or pre-Skeletron & Bee) Finches have CC capable of rivalling Imps.

Early game, the combo of 1 Vampire Frog, 1 Flinx and 1 Finch (Leather + Snapthorn) has the second fastest EoC killtime, beaten only by Boomstick.

Finches have their niche way later than their stage of obtaining). Speaking of that,

Abigail's recommended rank is A or A+.
Can be used at pre-flinx stage, and she is better than Finch when you have only 1 minion slot.
Little fact: with 2 minion slots, she has 1-2 more base damage than Flinxes have, and when I explored UD (no sharpened and whips, but with fur coat), she slightly outperormed flinxed on highly armored enemies.
Honestly, I was not impressed with her for the rest of pre-HM, even during BoC fight.
As soon as HM is activated, she becomes really good on mobs with Firecracker. You only need to farm Spiders for armor and you are ready to fight QS and Dread! Not an ideal solution on bosses, because on QS you *must* have 7 minion slots, which is impossible with Obsidian. So living with weaker whips seems to be inevitable.
On Mechanical bosses, except Destroyer she showas herself not well. ~~come on, you have Sanguine/Blade~~
So, A- in early game (as opposed to B+ for Finches for this particular stage)
S- for mobs in early-HM
B+ for bosses in early-HM

 

[Shyguymask]

Great job, as always. I want to add some facts about Finch Staff. It can be used on Skeletron with good effectiveness, slightly outperforming Flinxes. When you have 5 or more minion slots (post-Skeletron & Obsidian or pre-Skeletron & Bee) Finches have CC capable of rivalling Imps.

Early game, the combo of 1 Vampire Frog, 1 Flinx and 1 Finch (Leather + Snapthorn) has the second fastest EoC killtime, beaten only by Boomstick.

Finches have their niche way later than their stage of obtaining). Speaking of that,

Abigail's recommended rank is A or A+.
Can be used at pre-flinx stage, and she is better than Finch when you have only 1 minion slot.
Little fact: with 2 minion slots, she has 1-2 more base damage than Flinxes have, and when I explored UD (no sharpened and whips, but with fur coat), she slightly outperormed flinxed on highly armored enemies.
Honestly, I was not impressed with her for the teest of pre-HM, even during BoC fight.
As soon as HM is activated, she becomes really good on mobs with Firecracker. You only need to farm Spiders for armor and you are ready to fight QS and Dread! Not an ideal solution on bosses, because on QS you *must* have 7 minion slots, which is impossible with Obsidian. So living with weaker whips seems to be inevitable.
On Mechanical bosses, except Destroyer she showas herself not well. ~~come on, you have Sanguine/Blade~~
So, A- in early game (as opposed to B+ for Finches for this particular stage)
S- for mobs in early-HM
B+ for bosses in early-HM

Thanks for the input. Besides Abigail I will also give Finch Staff a bigger try when I record a quick playthrough for a certain Terraria video I'm making then update the list again. Most likely A+ for abi.

 

[Shyguymask]

Hornet Staff raised from C to B-, description updated.

Deerclops, being a large & grounded boss, enables Hornet Staff to comfortably land its projectiles consistently and finally put its decent firepower to use. A full Hornet Staff setup with whips (especially if you have Spinal Tap) should be able to outperform full Imp Staff thanks to not having to worry about i-frames. When mixing minions I also find myself using 2 or more Hornet minions because of its relatively good base damage combined with the fact it cannot interrupt itself.

It's still crappy everywhere else, but it finally has a niche now.

Finch Staff raised from B+ to A- as well since it has been seeing more and more usage throughout pre-hm including full Finch performing better against Skeletron than full Flinx and full Frog. Description updated.

haven't gotten to Abigail yet but will soon-ish.

 

[Shyguymask]

Abigail added, ranked A.

Imp Staff dropped from A to A- as a result of its competition getting fiercer, including Vampire Frog strategies on WoF getting more optimized and viable.

Pirate Staff would have dropped, but the Labor of Love update will make it extremely more common to obtain, so I'll give it mercy for now.

Snapthorn raised from S- to S because it's just that good and I've been liking it even more now for early game mobbing. It's also established now that it's well worth using with Obsidian Armor to boost Firecracker.

Bee Armor raised from B+ to A- as a result of non-whip strategies on WoF getting a lot more optimized and viable, including Frogs + Ballista Rod possibly having the best balance of DPS & safety after doing DPS tests.

Spider Armor raised from A to A+ since it's great on Hybrid builds, specifically Ranger/Summoner hybrid. Also being easy to obtain.

Forbidden armor dropped from A+ / S- to just A- because I just don't see the potential with it, especially since Pre-mech Mage weapons outside of Duke are weak compared to weapons from the other classes. It still has meaty offensive stat boosts making it worth using though.

Many descriptions updated with some being overhauled, including some from items whose rank haven't changed.

 

[FalconO5🌳]

Stardust Cell Staff: S- (Confidence: 4/5): I still don't fully understand the way it attacks enemies to this day,

The way it attacks is actually quite simple (well, it's complicated relative to other minions, but simple in a vacuum). It fires projectiles at any enemy it spots, but it also fires some additional projectiles at an enemy that the player is currently attacking, independent from its normal fire rate (the fire rate against the enemy the player is attacking is also slower than its normal fire rate). This means that if you attack a different enemy to what the cell is currently targetting without a whip, it will fire at two different enemies at once, albiet not dealing as much DPS on either.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Forbidden armor dropped from A+ / S- to just A- because I just don't see the potential with it, especially since Pre-mech Mage weapons outside of Duke are weak compared to weapons from the other classes. It still has meaty offensive stat boosts making it worth using though.

The only thing I'll add here, is don't forget about Clinger Staff and Nimbus Rod, two weapons that synergize well with Ancient Sand Tornado.

It is a loadout that makes you think about the game differently to get the most from it, so I think an A- is a pretty decent rating.

 

[Yreorel]

Finch Staff raised from B+ to A- as well since it has been seeing more and more usage throughout pre-hm including full Finch performing better against Skeletron than full Flinx and full Frog. Description updated.

Finally Finch is given the ranking it deserves. Always thought it performed very comparably to Flinx and was only hindered by RNG. On top of that, Finch ignores iFrames.

The way it attacks is actually quite simple (well, it's complicated relative to other minions, but simple in a vacuum). It fires projectiles at any enemy it spots, but it also fires some additional projectiles at an enemy that the player is currently attacking, independent from its normal fire rate (the fire rate against the enemy the player is attacking is also slower than its normal fire rate). This means that if you attack a different enemy to what the cell is currently targetting without a whip, it will fire at two different enemies at once, albiet not dealing as much DPS on either.

The exact chances are 1/3 per projectile hit

 

[Shyguymask]

I went through the writing of the tier list and made a bunch of changes mainly overhauling the introductory portion of the thread as well as many changes to item descriptions including a few remade from the ground up. I wanted to raise the quality and remove unnecessary parts as much as I can.

Snapthorn raised from S to S+ because I've come to realize how overtuned it is.

Slime Staff raised from C+ to B because I actually got it to drop in TWO recent Summoner playthroughs with one being from modded, and it's actually a lot better than I thought it was.

 

[ScourgeOfCorruptor]

Is summoner a viable class with no summoning based accessories? I’m considering switching to summoner for plantera to try out these new-fangled whips, but I don’t want to give up any accessories. Also I’ll be using the blade staff (cba farming for sanguine) with hallowed armor. Difficulty is MMFTW.

 

[Coleyohley]

Is summoner a viable class with no summoning based accessories? I’m considering switching to summoner for plantera to try out these new-fangled whips, but I don’t want to give up any accessories. Also I’ll be using the blade staff (cba farming for sanguine) with hallowed armor. Difficulty is MMFTW.

Not really. Most of your damage comes from minions and the boosts they get from whips, and accessories and armor are where you get the vast majority of minion slots; whips alone deal comparatively very little DPS. You might be able to make it work with just a summoner armor set but your DPS won’t be anything to write home about.

 

[Shyguymask]

Here's a list of ranking changes I'm currently considering for a massive 1.4.4. update of the tier list (not coming yet, not even soon in fact). Anything not mentioned would not have its ranking changed (yes, Blade is still S+ despite the nerf I'd say). Discuss.

Abigail A > A-
Slime B > B-
Hornet B- > A
Sanguine S+ > S-
Optic B- > A-
Pygmy Staff C- > C+
Desert Tiger A > A-
Deadly Sphere C > A
Xeno A- > S
Tempest ??? (need to test)
Stardust Dragon S > S-
Stardust Cell S- > A

Spinal Tap S- > A
Firecracker S > A+ (unsure, haven't used it yet, but it seems firecracker strats overall fell off pretty hard as far as I can see)
Cool Whip B+ > S-
Durendal S > S-
Morning Star B- > S-
Kaleidoscope S- > A+

Obsidian Armor S+ > A+
Forbidden Armor A- > B+
Hallowed Armor S > S-
Tiki Armor B- > S
Spooky Armor A+ > A

 

[Schparks]

Here's a list of ranking changes I'm currently considering for a massive 1.4.4. update of the tier list (not coming yet, not even soon in fact). Anything not mentioned would not have its ranking changed (yes, Blade is still S+ despite the nerf I'd say). Discuss.

Cool Whip B+ > S-

I'm curious as to hat this jump is about. It seems quite extreme.

 

[Shyguymask]

I'm curious as to hat this jump is about. It seems quite extreme.

Cool Whip has tag damage, stronger & faster snowflake and Frostbite now. The snowflake combined with Frostbite makes Cool Whip shred crowds (even more so with Blade Staff) and the tag damage makes it a viable bossing weapon when coupled with Blade Staff. It also takes priority over Spinal Tap for whip stacking tag damage, so now it has longevity as well instead of being immediately replaced after one mech is killed (if you were even using it in the first place).

Actual good DPS in a setup, some of the best mobbing in the game, actual longevity. That's the extreme jump in viability.

 

[Schparks]

Cool Whip has tag damage, stronger & faster snowflake and Frostbite now. The snowflake combined with Frostbite makes Cool Whip shred crowds (even more so with Blade Staff) and the tag damage makes it a viable bossing weapon when coupled with Blade Staff. It also takes priority over Spinal Tap for whip stacking tag damage, so now it has longevity as well instead of being immediately replaced after one mech is killed (if you were even using it in the first place).

Actual good DPS in a setup, some of the best mobbing in the game, actual longevity. That's the extreme jump in viability.

Awesome/ Thanks for answering my question.

I remember it being quite annoying back in the old days, and I haven't had the time to experiment in the new version. Your work is greatly appreciated.

 

[eardianm]

Was really impressed with deadly sphere in recent getfixedboi run, they are way way more responsive now and were helping more than ravens, so can see the tier jump. Tempest seemed reasonable too as I saw them flying all over the map and sharks had decent projectile speed, although I haven't tested as much (and never bothered using previous version)

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Forbidden Armor A- > B+

I'm curious as to how Forbidden Set got worse, when Minions overall, especially the tier appropriate ones, were all buffed?

Also, so long as you don't die, Bewitching Buff is pretty much "free", did magic get reworked again or something?
EDIT: Oh yeah, and both Nimbus Rod and Clinger's Staff were both buffed.

 

[Shyguymask]

I'm curious as to how Forbidden Set got worse, when Minions overall, especially the tier appropriate ones, were all buffed?

Also, so long as you don't die, Bewitching Buff is pretty much "free", did magic get reworked again or something?
EDIT: Oh yeah, and both Nimbus Rod and Clinger's Staff were both buffed.

Having more & stronger Sanguine bats on an otherwise Mage setup was what made the Forbidden Armor seem strong on paper, but now that Sanguine Staff is nerfed It's harder than ever to justify using it for how rare it is. Maybe a setup that involves whip stacking Blade Staff w/ Cool Whip while waiting for mana to regenerate could be strong, but tests would be needed.

 

[Rocketjay]

Having more & stronger Sanguine bats on an otherwise Mage setup was what made the Forbidden Armor seem strong on paper, but now that Sanguine Staff is nerfed It's harder than ever to justify using it for how rare it is. Maybe a setup that involves whip stacking Blade Staff w/ Cool Whip while waiting for mana to regenerate could be strong, but tests would be needed.

Since sentries are finally viable, are you going to tier them one day?

 

[Shyguymask]

Since sentries are finally viable, are you going to tier them one day?

Unlikely

 

[mathbrush]

These all seem like reasonable changes. I can comment on Tempest staff: because they fire even when trying to catch up to you, they are 'active' a lot more now, and the aiming is better. I didn't feel like I had to upgrade to Xeno staff, which is weird because Tempest staff was so much worse than Xeno before. I wouldn't say they're S but I'd definitely say they're somewhere in B to A+ range.