1.4.4 Summoner Minion, Whip & Armor In-Depth Tier List

Nimta said:
Fishing is booooooring to a lot of us. Some people don't even take the time to learn it properly. I don't know where SGM is in this cycle.
Click to expand...
Outside of his bizarre experiences with Armored Cavefish, he doesn't seem to have many issues with fishing

Nimta said:
Well, it really does become about using the ranged weapon moreso than the summons the way you implemented it. The whole point of this is how good summoner can be on its own; including a bunch of optimizations for side-arming with other classes doesn't really make sense in this context. He's not attacking directly with the sunfury, just using it as a shield and for the classless bone cross projectiles, letting the summons do the job. Since it's about optimizing the summon damage, he's not going to go super aggro either as that's actively detrimental to his own survival as well as the minion's efficiency.
Click to expand...
That's exactly what he said yes, and why I didn't continue the argument past that point.
 
Shyguymask said:
The only thing I'm getting from the "sidearm" debate is that at this point the whole "meta" of the game is centered around Summoner, and that almost any character/playstyle not dedicating at least half of their grinding & gears to Summoner stuff is crippling themselves and missing out.
Click to expand...
Yeah, there’s honestly no reason *not* to have minions on a build except for time. It’s a consequence of Summoner being designed in 1.2 onward as a support class, meant to assist and be held up by other classes, then the ‘pure class’ obsession caused 1.4 to add whips for pure summoner, so now it’s both a universal support *and* an effective pure class.

I’d say throwing three minions onto a Ranged build with Bewitching and Summoner Potions just for extra damage is a pretty different setup from having a dedicated Summon setup with whips and flasks, one is just Ranged with optimal output and one is actually Summoner. I also wouldn’t say you should dedicate half your gears to Summoner, past the first three minions you need to give up armor and accessories for more and start to subtract from other weapons, and minions are quite a bit weaker without tag support.

Otherwise, yeah I’d agree that summon minions do have a pretty major role in the meta, and you should really use 1-3 at all times.
 
Last edited:
Sanguine Staff should be S rather than S+. Yes it has a very high damage output and the best AI of any minion in the game, but getting it is a pain and is very time-consuming.

First you have to wait for a Blood Moon, which could take hours and hours of continuous sleeping. Then you have to fish up the Dreadnautilus, which could take a while because of all the other fish and enemies that could be fished up. Then you have to kill it, which is way easier said then done. If you move around too much, it'll hit you over and over again with its circling attack and if you move around too little you'll probably get hit by its blood projectiles or by its Blood Squids.

And if you don't manage to kill it before dawn, or you die, you'll have to wait for a natural Blood Moon again if you didn't get any Bloody Tears. Furthermore, there's only a 50% chance of Dreadnautilus dropping the Sanguine Staff on Classic worlds, so you might not get it if you're unlucky.

This is a pretty ironic post, isn't it (since my username is Dreadnautilus5000).
 
Dreadnautilus5000 said:
Sanguine Staff should be S rather than S+. Yes it has a very high damage output and the best AI of any minion in the game, but getting it is a pain and is very time-consuming.

First you have to wait for a Blood Moon, which could take hours and hours of continuous sleeping. Then you have to fish up the Dreadnautilus, which could take a while because of all the other fish and enemies that could be fished up. Then you have to kill it, which is way easier said then done. If you move around too much, it'll hit you over and over again with its circling attack and if you move around too little you'll probably get hit by its blood projectiles or by its Blood Squids.

And if you don't manage to kill it before dawn, or you die, you'll have to wait for a natural Blood Moon again if you didn't get any Bloody Tears. Furthermore, there's only a 50% chance of Dreadnautilus dropping the Sanguine Staff on Classic worlds, so you might not get it if you're unlucky.

This is a pretty ironic post, isn't it (since my username is Dreadnautilus5000).
Click to expand...
Getting Sanguine Staff is all about planning ahead and also a bit of luck. Get Bloody Tear in Pre-Hardmode. Then once the time comes get Sonar Potion, build a box with regen stuff in it then of course get a fishing pole & baits. As I said you can't get unlucky, but it's not so bad from my experience. Box strat is very easy and efficient, both for avoiding regular enemies and to cheese Dreadnautilus. Also, I pretty much ain't taking Classic mode into account with this tier list, but even then Sanguine Staff in Classic is twice as likely to drop than Blade Staff.
 
Shyguymask said:
Getting Sanguine Staff is all about planning ahead and also a bit of luck. Get Bloody Tear in Pre-Hardmode. Then once the time comes get Sonar Potion, build a box with regen stuff in it then of course get a fishing pole & baits. As I said you can't get unlucky, but it's not so bad from my experience. Box strat is very easy and efficient, both for avoiding regular enemies and to cheese Dreadnautilus. Also, I pretty much ain't taking Classic mode into account with this tier list, but even then Sanguine Staff in Classic is twice as likely to drop than Blade Staff.
Click to expand...
I guess it’s not that bad, but it’s still more annoying to get than the Blade Staff or Spider Staff.
 
Shyguymask said:
Raised Optic Staff to B- to take this thread into account.


I'll be able to shift my focus into completing this list in a few days.
Click to expand...
Based on that thread, Cool Whip should be lowered. It was outperformed by both Firecracker and Durendal with basically every minion and armour set, and apparently released a lot of Probes. Spinal Tap even got slightly faster kill times with Spider armour!
 
Dreadnautilus5000 said:
Based on that thread, Cool Whip should be lowered. It was outperformed by both Firecracker and Durendal with basically every minion and armour set, and apparently released a lot of Probes. Spinal Tap even got slightly faster kill times with Spider armour!
Click to expand...
The only test that actually matters in the context of Cool Whip is Obsidian Armor/Blade Staff. Cool Whip outperformed Firecracker there. Even then I show doubt with the Spider armor results, Summon Tag isn't a thing against Destroyer and Cool Whip has higher damage & range, the snowflake and also slightly less drop off when hitting multiple segments. Dealing with numerous probes isn't really a concerns, no matter how many there are they get melted by Obsidian Armor, and they drop a lot of hearts.
 
Note also that Cool Whip will do slightly less DPS against the Destroyer than it otherwise would, since the Destroyer is immune to frostburn. Against single targets this wouldn't make much difference anyway, but the damage does add up when used against crowds.
 
CellarDoor96 said:
Note also that Cool Whip will do slightly less DPS against the Destroyer than it otherwise would, since the Destroyer is immune to frostburn. Against single targets this wouldn't make much difference anyway, but the damage does add up when used against crowds.
Click to expand...
oh no! 8 dps!
 
Shyguymask said:
I still don't fully understand the way it attacks enemies to this day, but what I do know is that for some reasons the cells seem to attack significantly faster when hitting enemies with another weapon, including whips.
Click to expand...
The cells fire extra shots at enemies you are attacking with another weapon. That's what you see here, it's intentional behavior. Besides that, I think it's just Xeno Staff AI.

Shyguymask said:
Deadly_Sphere_Staff.png
Deadly Sphere Staff: C (Confidence: 1/5): If a few are combined with Sanguine Staff, you MIGHT be able to get barely higher DPS against bosses... that's the closest it has to having a use. As far as I'm aware this is just another staff that is immediately outclassed and has no real uses.
Click to expand...

Ok so its only use is being slightly stronger than an Early Hardmode minion (a busted one, but early hardmode nonetheless) except that it doesn't matter that much because Iframes and worse AI mess it up.

Yeah no this honestly deserves D as well. Availability is another thing against it, Deadly Spheres are relatively uncommon and the time spending farming Solar Eclipses could just be spent AFKing in a desert killing Mummies for the Tiger.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom