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1.4 Summoner Minion, Whip & Armor In-Depth Tier List

Vikilum

Terrarian
Flinx Coat: A
Flinx Coat should be F or something because there is only 1 accessible minion before the Evil Boss (Flinx, which does next to nothing compared to whips at that stage vs multiple-target bosses) and after you defeated the Evil Boss you can go straight for Obsidian armor. It literally does not make a single difference in the Eater/Brain fight.
It also costs 10 Gold Bars.
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
Flinx Coat should be F or something because there is only 1 accessible minion before the Evil Boss (Flinx, which does next to nothing compared to whips at that stage vs multiple-target bosses) and after you defeated the Evil Boss you can go straight for Obsidian armor. It literally does not make a single difference in the Eater/Brain fight.
It also costs 10 Gold Bars.
I disagree and don't see any reasonable counterargumens to my opinion here.
2nd flinx + Snapthorn + Leather whip make a huge difference in EoW fight, and deals with creepers much better than only 1 does.
Every other single - target boss (King Slime, EoC) also benefits from the 2nd/3rd flinx (with potion), as their attack rate increases proportionally up to 3.
With leggings and head slots being free to use, you can even go mixed class, e. g summon-magic (demon scythe pre-boss) , with wizard hat and jungle leggings, not even mentioning potential defense boost.

Extra minions also greatly speed up Vampire Frogs farm/ make general mobbing way easier

Only if you are speedrunning, you can ignore fur coat, kill creepers as early as possible (snapthorn) and rush for obsidian
 
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Vikilum

Terrarian
Yeah but in MMFTW there are too many creepers for a mere 2 flinxes anyway so your point is kinda moot

Only if you are speedrunning, you can ignore fur coat, kill creepers as early as possible (snapthorn) and rush for obsidian
Why would you not do that every game? It gets the game into the finally-decent part where you can finally move without being hindered by a million-HP mobs.
The longer you stay at the pre-Obsidian phase, the more likely you are to tilt from the sheer monotony of grinding while low dps

Flinx Fur Coat is basically the Platinum Armor of summoners. It drags the worst phase of the game out for way too long, and relies on a rare mob and the rarest ore in the biome which tilts you with freezing things every time you take damage.
 
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AngryNimbus

Terrarian
Yeah but in MMFTW there are too many creepers for a mere 2 flinxes anyway so your point is kinda moot


Why would you not do that every game? It gets the game into the finally-decent part where you can finally move without being hindered by a million-HP mobs.
The longer you stay at the pre-Obsidian phase, the more likely you are to tilt from the sheer monotony of grinding while low dps

Flinx Fur Coat is basically the Platinum Armor of summoners. It drags the worst phase of the game out for way too long, and relies on a rare mob and the rarest ore in the biome which tilts you with freezing things every time you take damage.
Platinum armor and flinx fur coat are not the same in terms of grinding required. (8 bars vs 75 (?) bars)
8 bars mean only a couple of decently sized ore veins and 5-6 sticky bombs.

As for pre-HM movement, everything (significant: 1st wings, horseshoe baloons, frostspark boots, shield of cthulhu) can be obtained at pre-evil boss stage. So there is no major differences from this point up until Hardmode. Terraspark boots features can be provided by obsidian skin & water walking potions, everything is accessible at pre-evil stage. So, in this context, obsidian stage = flinx fur coat stage

If the initial point of wiew is to skip pre-HM ASAP, go for mage and demon scythe and full jungle set
No need to kill evil boss for armor at all, and only 1 weapon is needed. Works in MMFTW.

Speaking of Master FTW, it is a unique case that requires a thorough revision of pre-HM pregression, being basically an exception.
It is not intended to be your primary experience. Speaking of that, examples of differences from my playthrough: only the Demon Scythe (in summon-magic set with frogs+ Snapthorn) can kill BoC reasonably quick, and in HM (summon-melee combined), the Scourge of the Corruptor + Blade/Sanguine is arguably better then Vampire Knives + same minions + whips (unless DH + Kalei, but these obtained later). Clearing out mobs from insane distance & homing > healing ~400 health back from 1 hit.
Due to heavily buffed contact damage, Terra blade + Harvest + Durendal facetanking is also not possible. These are clearly not common cases. ML is legitimately easier than in regular Master, less projectile damage
 

Mathbrush1

Terrarian
Yeah but in MMFTW there are too many creepers for a mere 2 flinxes anyway so your point is kinda moot


Why would you not do that every game? It gets the game into the finally-decent part where you can finally move without being hindered by a million-HP mobs.
The longer you stay at the pre-Obsidian phase, the more likely you are to tilt from the sheer monotony of grinding while low dps

Flinx Fur Coat is basically the Platinum Armor of summoners. It drags the worst phase of the game out for way too long, and relies on a rare mob and the rarest ore in the biome which tilts you with freezing things every time you take damage.
It's all subjective! I actually prefer the first phase of the game the most (and early hard-mode), since it has real exploration and challenges. And skipping progression always feels boring to me; it's like trying to play less game.

That doesn't mean you're wrong, it means that there's not one answer to how to play the game. For many play styles (including mine), the Flinx Fur Coat is great summoner equipment, especially if you have only the leather whip.

the rarest ore in the biome which tilts you with freezing things every time you take damage.

The flinx doesn't freeze you, right? Or is that a For the Worthy thing?
 

Vikilum

Terrarian
As for pre-HM movement, everything (significant: 1st wings, horseshoe baloons, frostspark boots, shield of cthulhu) can be obtained at pre-evil boss stage. So there is no major differences from this point up until Hardmode.
The thing that kills you while exploring is not being able to kill a bat in 3-5 seconds in MMFTW, not your movement abilities. If you take 6+ seconds to kill a bat it adds too much variance to the RNG (have to dodge) and basically screws you over royally in the long run. Basically, you absolutely need short Bat-killing times ASAP.
Speaking of Master FTW, it is a unique case that requires a thorough revision of pre-HM pregression, being basically an exception.
It is not intended to be your primary experience.
Tier lists are completely useless outside of MMFTW. You can build Platinum Broadswords and use them against Eater of Worlds in Normal if you like if it's about "fun". Similarly, at Expert or below, the importance of rushing good weapons reduces drastically since you can kill a bat in a short period of time with garbage-tier gear anyway.
The flinx doesn't freeze you, right? Or is that a For the Worthy thing?
The bats are literally run-ending if you manfight them, and if you don't manfight them you will have to tunnel so much that you will tilt anyway.
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
The thing that kills you while exploring is not being able to kill a bat in 3-5 seconds in MMFTW, not your movement abilities. If you take 6+ seconds to kill a bat it adds too much variance to the RNG (have to dodge) and basically screws you over royally in the long run. Basically, you absolutely need short Bat-killing times ASAP.

Tier lists are completely useless outside of MMFTW. You can build Platinum Broadswords and use them against Eater of Worlds in Normal if you like if it's about "fun". Similarly, at Expert or below, the importance of rushing good weapons reduces drastically since you can kill a bat in a short period of time with garbage-tier gear anyway.

The bats are literally run-ending if you manfight them, and if you don't manfight them you will have to tunnel so much that you will tilt anyway.
Everything comes down to the personal preference, really. For you bats are pain, for me this role is played by jungle enemies (spiked slimes & tortoises), and angry nimbuses. Based on this, tier lists would be way too subjective, rather than objective.
As far as I learned, based on Shyguymask's and Baconfry's lists, they should be either focused on most frequently played modes (Classic, Expert, Master) and possibly reveal full weapon potential, even if this requires some skill (e. g. Whipstacked Stardust Cells vs ML).

Now I believe that focusing on special, secret, mechanics-changing*** seeds + personal preference rather than regular modes will corrupt results.
Look at my personal preference at MMFTW: Scourge is more useful than Vampire Knives. But:
a) in every other mode it is not better (not as useful as item)
b) it is just me (most likely)
So, based on this info we'll make a wrong decision.
Balance of accessibility to the audience (regular modes/mechanics) + unleashing full weapon potential in all cases (not a particular enemy, because its personal) is where things acually at.

In our case, you'll find weapons effective vs bats excellent, I will do so with spiked slimes.
The Platinum broadsword + feral claws is good against bats in MMFTW. Is it an A tier weapon? Not really...

If bats were just an example, then still, the issue of mechanics compared to regular modes is still to be adressed


***way more contact damage, less projectile damage from bosses, drasically increased regular mob damage, limited accessibility of some weapons (starfury, requires a dungeon golden key; post-Skeletron rather than pre-Boss)
 
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Shyguymask

Terrarian
This Tier List is based on Expert/Master. But For The Worthy in particular is not taken into account and generally shouldn't be taken seriously for anything.

Tier lists are completely useless outside of MMFTW. You can build Platinum Broadswords and use them against Eater of Worlds in Normal if you like if it's about "fun". Similarly, at Expert or below, the importance of rushing good weapons reduces drastically since you can kill a bat in a short period of time with garbage-tier gear anyway.
Bad take. Thinking that tier lists should revolve around a secret seed that makes everything bloated to the max (including 3x contact damage) to the point of making the game unenjoyable is not how things should be.

Since Platinum Broadswords is a Melee weapon that means it's also useable in Master Mode because Tank Melee will just take single digit (if not 1) damage from stuff anyway.

Also by your logic in general Crystal Serpent, Spirit Flame, Rainbow Rod and so on are useless because you can "just" beat Duke pre-mech and have him drop Razorblade. Onyx Blaster, Dart Pistol/Rifle, Megashark and more are useless because you can "just" get Tsunami from Duke pre-mech. That's not how it works.
 

Vikilum

Terrarian
Everything comes down to the personal preference, really. For you bats are pain, for me this role is played by jungle enemies (spiked slimes & tortoises), and angry nimbuses. Based on this, tier lists would be way too subjective, rather than objective.
Bats are everywhere. Spiked Slimes are in one biome.
Look at my personal preference at MMFTW: Scourge is more useful than Vampire Knives.
Vampire Knives are literally a crutch weapon that gets better the lower the difficulty is. Facetank and/or healing are like this in general. Higher difficulties prioritize weapon range much more.
The Platinum broadsword + feral claws is good against bats in MMFTW.
No it isn't. It has a way too long frontswing and requires too short a range, and it cannot hit below you (where bats are, because you expose yourself to much more dangerous threats if you don't hug ceiling). Mace is far better as an anti-bat weapon. Ball o' Hurt is pretty much the only viable thing though.
limited accessibility of some weapons (starfury, requires a dungeon golden key; post-Skeletron rather than pre-Boss)
Too lazy to fish?
Since Platinum Broadswords is a Melee weapon that means it's also useable in Master Mode because Tank Melee will just take single digit (if not 1) damage from stuff anyway.
Platinum Broadswords has direction and range issues. If you take 1 damage anyway you negate the need for a weapon, since they are primarily for keeping you from dying to a bat who hits you for 3/4 of your 250 HP pool in 3 hits in 2 seconds or something.

Also by your logic in general Crystal Serpent, Spirit Flame, Rainbow Rod and so on are useless because you can "just" beat Duke pre-mech
Difference being that you are no longer in the garbage phase of the game. You can get Cursed Flames and become god on the map, which moves the probabilistic effective timer on your gameplay to corruption spread since you can destroy mobs instantly.

Though I agree - Spirit Flame is garbage. It requires you to go to the Desert, a biome which ends runs in Hardmode, when stuff like Crystal Storm/Serpent and Rainbow Rod exists.

Fishron has problems. It requires you to either make a farm (bad) or endure one of the most dangerous mobs in the game (even worse) even before the boss fight. Fishron is pretty much only better than normal progression if you get an early Truffle Worm. There are better ways to use your time if you don't get lucky Truffle Worm spawns. If you farm for Crystal Storm, you will be farming for Twins spawn anyway.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
Since Platinum Broadswords is a Melee weapon that means it's also useable in Master Mode because Tank Melee will just take single digit (if not 1) damage from stuff anyway.
None of the high defese pre boss armor's give melee dps bonuses, so melee is not any tankier than the other classes at that point. By the time you get molten armor you're not swinging that platinum sword around anymore.

Also you aren't getting single digit damage with pre boss gear, master mode man eaters have 108 base damage and hornets are doing at least 66 vs platinum + ironskin potions 28 defense, by the time you get the goblin tinkerer for warding you've found a better weapon.
 

Shyguymask

Terrarian
None of the high defese pre boss armor's give melee dps bonuses, so melee is not any tankier than the other classes at that point. By the time you get molten armor you're not swinging that platinum sword around anymore.

Also you aren't getting single digit damage with pre boss gear, master mode man eaters have 108 base damage and hornets are doing at least 66 vs platinum + ironskin potions 28 defense, by the time you get the goblin tinkerer for warding you've found a better weapon.
The thing is that while you are true in the surface, in the grand scheme of things Gold/Platinum armor leans toward being a Melee armor in practical gameplay. Mage, Ranger and Summoner all get armor dedicated to their class pre-Boss. But not Melee. Additionally, short-range weapons like Platinum/Gold Short/Broad sword, Starfury's Blade, Sawtooth Shark, Flaming Mace and more demand higher defense to minimize the risk of being used. Well, there's Ancient Shadow Armor, but we don't talk about it for good reasons.

No it isn't. It has a way too long frontswing and requires too short a range, and it cannot hit below you (where bats are, because you expose yourself to much more dangerous threats if you don't hug ceiling). Mace is far better as an anti-bat weapon. Ball o' Hurt is pretty much the only viable thing though.
Unlike later maces, the "spinning" phase of Mace & Flaming Mace's attack is actually kind of garbo and does almost nothing to stop enemies, not even bats. Also, if you miss the bat while attacking with the mace, you're gonna be stuck in "return mode" with the mace for what feels like an eternity. Broadswords, especially platinum + feral claw is great against bats because it forms a large barrier in front of you. Bat above you? Jump. Bat below you? Move to the left or right slightly and let it come to you.

Platinum Broadswords has direction and range issues.
Notice how I said "useable" and not anything resembling "top tier" or "one of the best". The point I'm making is that you're came off as if you believe defense is useless outside of Normal mode.

Too lazy to fish?
You keep going about "speedrunning" this game and wanting to rush past the "garbage phase of the game" by going straight for evil boss for the materials... and now you're suggesting to spend time gathering bait & even more time grinding crates?

Difference being that you are no longer in the garbage phase of the game.
So what? How does that affect my point? In Pre-boss not only do I want to take A SMALL BIT OF TIME to learn & appreciate my world and the resources & weapons I manage to find, not only do I actually want to play the game instead of sequence breaking half of Pre-hardmode, but there are plenty of moderately strong pre-boss weapons that enables you to fend off mobs consistently in general.

You can get Cursed Flames and become god on the map
Uh not really. Cursed Flames is good, but is very far from making you "god of the map". Against regular enemies you still need to hit said enemy to inflict the buff, you still need to SURVIVE said enemy, and even on a Frost Armor-Cursed Flames-Magma Stone/Fire Gauntlet setup you need to hit the same enemy multiple times (either re-applying the debuffs or hitting them leaving them at low hp) in most cases.

which moves the probabilistic effective timer on your gameplay to corruption spread since you can destroy mobs instantly.
Cursed Flames literally does the opposite of destroying mobs "instantly". It slowly depletes their health over time. That's an antonym to "instantly".

Though I agree - Spirit Flame is garbage.
How so? The one time I used it it was the best mage weapon for taking out Twins, and mage players trying to kill Duke pre-Mech often use Spirit Flame from what I saw.

a biome which ends runs in Hardmode
"runs"?... Are you treating this as a literal speedrun? Or a Hardcore character? Because neither of these are taken into account here.

Fishron has problems. It requires you to either make a farm (bad) or endure one of the most dangerous mobs in the game (even worse) even before the boss fight.
1.4 Mushroom worldgen is very favorable for truffle worm farming and you don't need to make any farms now. One of the most dangerous mobs in the game? I assume you mean the thing that spams spores at you, while it can be annoying it's nothing compared to Dune Splicers, Moss Hornets, Ice Golems, Illuminant Bats and more.
 

Vikilum

Terrarian
You keep going about "speedrunning" this game and wanting to rush past the "garbage phase of the game" by going straight for evil boss for the materials... and now you're suggesting to spend time gathering bait & even more time grinding crates?
You rush through the pre-Boss phase because the player character is ludicrously weak in comparison with his environment in the pre-Boss phase of the game. You have no armor, you have no damage, you will get chainstunned by a bat who confuses first strike and hits you 2 more times.
If it's an actual speedrun just go straight for Featherfall Potion and leapfrog the skull.
Because neither of these are taken into account here.
If you don't take Hardcore into account, the strength of a weapon basically revolves around how good the weapon is at destroying bosses. Opportunity cost of the weapon would go straight out of the window, allowing stupid things like Sanguine-farming RNG instagib to drop a so-called "S" staff despite it only being moderately better than the far more consistently-farmed Blade Staff.

Which is probably why you rated Optic, Pirate, the best staves to deal with invasions, and Deadly Sphere and Tempest staves, the best staves for long-ranged combat, lowly.

How so? The one time I used it it was the best mage weapon for taking out Twins, and mage players trying to kill Duke pre-Mech often use Spirit Flame from what I saw.
Garbage drop rate and high risk for homing on your weapon. Might as well rate Super Star Shooter very high.
1.4 Mushroom worldgen is very favorable for truffle worm farming and you don't need to make any farms now.
How to tell if someone plays in any difficulty that is not Master FTW 101
Make 1 mistake in that biome and the spawn rate + open space will somehow kill you.
 
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Coleyohley

Terrarian
You rush through the pre-Boss phase because the player character is ludicrously weak in comparison with his environment in the pre-Boss phase of the game. You have no armor, you have no damage, you will get chainstunned by a bat who confuses first strike and hits you 2 more times.
If it's an actual speedrun just go straight for Featherfall Potion and leapfrog the skull.
What if some players (me, for example) prefer to take their time? I personally do not mind being weak at the start. It makes the feeling of progression more solid. I didn't just skip the early weaksauce stage, I experienced it, and now I feel all the more powerful because I clearly remember how weak I used to be. I also think it can be quite interesting to be so heavily outmatched that you need to employ special tactics to win, which is most prominent in the early-game.

Again, subjectivity. Not everyone plays the same way you do.

If you don't take Hardcore into account, the strength of a weapon basically revolves around how good the weapon is at destroying bosses. Opportunity cost of the weapon would go straight out of the window, allowing stupid things like Sanguine-farming RNG instagib to drop a so-called "S" staff despite it only being moderately better than the far more consistently-farmed Blade Staff.
That's why the Rules section exists: It explains what criteria the list is based on. A list focused around hardcore would look drastically different than one more suited for Master Mode. Not everyone plays Hardcore, and expecting everyone to base their lists around it is ridiculous.

Because yes, you are correct. There are many more options available in Master Mode because you don't lose your entire playthrough when you make a mistake. But expecting that everyone should generate their list for the purposes of Hardcore is pretty absurd.

Also nitpick here but "opportunity cost" is not about how hard an option is to access. Opportunity cost is what you miss out on when choosing one option over another (like having 1 accessory slot to spare and choosing between Avenger Emblem or Frog Leg. Equipping one means you cannot receive the benefits of the other).

Garbage drop rate and high risk for homing on your weapon. Might as well rate Super Star Shooter very high.
This weapon is actually pretty damn incredible in Master Mode. It's extremely difficult to craft, but it also has some incredible power and versatility behind it. I actually grinded this thing out in MMFTW and was extremely impressed by its ability to deal with underground enemies. It also worked incredibly well against Queen Slime, Fishron, and Skeletron Prime.

How to tell if someone plays in any difficulty that is not Master FTW 101
Make 1 mistake in that biome and the spawn rate + open space will somehow kill you.
I played Master FTW. I got 10 Truffle worms in about 15 minutes. It wasn't that bad.
 
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Shyguymask

Terrarian
You rush through the pre-Boss phase because[...]
You didn't answer my question. Why did you suggest fishing even though you are all about speedrunning and "rushing through the garbage phase"?
the strength of a weapon basically revolves around how good the weapon is at destroying bosses.
Not necessarily, weapons can be good because they mainly perform really well against regular enemies and for farming in general. Flying Knife is the best example of this, it doesn't perform well in boss fights but it's a fantastic "Melee" weapon against regular mobs & invasions: It's basically a Yoyo with infinite range (based on your monitor/zoom size), infinite pierce and infinite lifespan. With DoTs especially it will shred Pirate Invasion.

Garbage drop rate and high risk for homing on your weapon. Might as well rate Super Star Shooter very high.
There's more to a weapon than it's drop rate dude.

How to tell if someone plays in any difficulty that is not Master FTW 101
Make 1 mistake in that biome and the spawn rate + open space will somehow kill you.
It's weird to brag about having played a garbage gamemode that is not skill based, just tedious and utterly stat-bloated. No Vikilum, beating MMFTW is not a big accomplishment. If you can beat Expert/Master without too much struggle then you can beat MMFTW with some patience. It's not "challenging", just tedious. I've played and beaten Calamity Revengeance mode many times, also beat Death mode once (another time in multiplayer). I also did stuff like beating Master Mode Daytime EoL without WASD keys with pre-Golem gears. FTW is nothing.

As for "make 1 mistake", that can apply to all biomes. Make one damage and you will instantly die, mainly from contact damage. On regular Master Mode you already die from 1-2 hits from Hardmode enemies in most cases.
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
This weapon is actually pretty damn incredible in Master Mode. It's extremely difficult to craft, but it also has some incredible power and versatility behind it. I actually grinded this thing out in MMFTW and was extremely impressed by its ability to deal with underground enemies. It also worked incredibly well against Queen Slime, Fishron, and Skeletron Prime.
I allow myself to express some thoughts about the Spirit flame (and defend it too) . It is the best weapon for summoner-magic combo (Forbidden Armor) to cheese Dreadnautilus. You lock yourself in a super-small box and spam it. All projectiles spawn outside the box and home in on Dread. Later it makes a very versatile combo with Sanguine Staff, being fully homing, reliable and with good to excellent DPS.


If you can beat Expert/Master without too much struggle then you can beat MMFTW with some patience. It's not "challenging", just tedious.
And irritating. And wastes a lot common strategies of farming, cheesing etc. Absolutely true.

One funny fact: there is a chance of the angel statue being instead of the main chest loot. That happened to me with the Frozen chest... Funny... Imagine that with the crimson one

There are a few good things to be included into regular Master however, like Empress' faster switches from one attack to another
 
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Vikilum

Terrarian
"rushing through the garbage phase"
because there are only 2 garbage phases in the game: pre-evil boss where your damage is trash, and early hardmode pre-spider, where your damage is also trash. game is simply extremely tedious during those 2 phases. if i were to give an advice to a new player it would be "go craft some armor, get a mace, and kill Eater of Worlds ASAP so you can finally play the game without tilting every second"
the longer you spend in pre-evil boss the more likely you are to tilt due to low player damage and lack of a summon who 3-shots common enemies
There's more to a weapon than it's drop rate dude.
drop rate pretty much defines opportunity cost, esp. if it's in a biome that is prone to tilting the player. terraria is all about managing player motivation and not getting a fever because you are stuck in a horrid tunnel or having your full concentration devoted to dodging every single desert mob or something. it's literally the hardest part of the game.

you can memorize the perfect pattern to no hit every boss with far more relative ease than, say, Rabi-Ribi or Touhou. you can't change the fact that the bat will tilt you if you don't have enough damage.

i would honestly go all the way and claim that the player should spend as little time underground as possible, mainly because that environment is designed to absolutely tilt the player with its cabin-fever environment, traps, random enclosed spaces, random lava that you fell into because you were trying to go through a 1 block hole, the general excruciating experience of digging a tunnel, etc. You will run out of patience eventually and will decide to rush through the entire biome without regards to any caution, then you will die to the absolutely stupidest bat nonsense, then you will tilt even more. hence anything which involves moving around the underground should be kept at an absolute minimum (use hell to make easy hallow/corruption farms, collect only 3 screens' worth of crystals and tp out of there, etc.

jungle is honestly the only tolerable biome (once you get post-evil boss items), because at least it's made of mud so you can just dig through everything, and also no worms and little in the way of traps.

It's weird to brag about having played a garbage gamemode that is not skill based, just tedious and utterly stat-bloated. No Vikilum, beating MMFTW is not a big accomplishment. If you can beat Expert/Master without too much struggle then you can beat MMFTW with some patience
MMFTW is less tedious than normal MM. I already know that you never played MMFTW because you don't understand that Terraria is basically just a series of stat checks since you can dodge basically everything anyway.
I've played and beaten Calamity Revengeance mode many times
No, Shyguymask, playing a garbage mod where the devs are too bad at programming to allow you to reposition the Squirrel Squire by reusing the staff is not a big accomplishment. It's called being good at tapping the space bar.
Also, play with Armageddon and Defiled Rune on. Mod is no challenge without it. Literally just play Calamity like Rabi-Ribi instead of Terraria and it becomes piss-easy.
I also did stuff like beating Master Mode Daytime EoL without WASD keys with pre-Golem gears.
No, Shyguymask, beating Daytime EoL without using the 30x30 or what have you square array of platforms that span 4 screens wide or something is NOT an achievement. It's just a testament to your commitment of building 4 screens' worth of 30x30 platforms.....but you probably TEdited it in anyway. Also, Rod of Discord.
 
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Shyguymask

Terrarian
and early hardmode pre-spider, where your damage is also trash.
Kill a few Ichor Stickers. Craft Ichor Flask. Go to Spider Nest. Kill Spiders. Craft Spider Staff & Spider Armor.

If it's a "garbage phase" then it's an extremely short one.

if i were to give an advice to a new player it would be "go craft some armor, get a mace, and kill Eater of Worlds ASAP so you can finally play the game without tilting every second"
Or they could build NPC houses and buy a bunch of Grenades from Demolitionist. Or they could rush Sky Island and get Starfury. Or they could fish at the Ocean for general equipment. There are multiple ways to solve early pre-Boss. Yours is not the only way.

terraria is all about managing player motivation and not getting a fever because you are stuck in a horrid tunnel or having your full concentration devoted to dodging every single desert mob or something. it's literally the hardest part of the game.
Are you just trolling? Or are you incapable of realizing that not everybody shares your mindset (far from it), and that there is nothing decisive that indicates or validate your mindset? It's like you want to sound tough and intelligent but really you are trying way too hard to be deep.

MMFTW is less tedious than normal MM.
That's quite the absurd claim. The ONLY possible case for this argument is that blocks take less hits to mine with pickaxes, and that's pretty much made irrelevant in Hardmode onwards because you will be one-shotting Stone & pre-hm ore blocks like you did in non-FTW anyway. Either way enemies & bosses having significantly higher stats and yourself getting one-shot even more often is the definition of tediousness over challenge. "MMFTW is less tedious than normal MM" is a troll argument.

No, Shyguymask, playing a garbage mod where the devs are too bad at programming to allow you to reposition the Squirrel Squire by reusing the staff is not a big accomplishment. It's called being good at tapping the space bar.
Calamity has its issues (most of which are getting fixed in the upcoming major update including the Squirrel Squire) but Revengeance & Death modes are far, FAR better than Master Mode and especially For The Worthy. Bosses are significantly overhauled instead of just bloating them with stats and making them kill you in 1-2 hits, and the game/progression as a whole feels different and overhauled. The positives far outweigh the negatives and trying to compare Master Mode and especially For The Worthy to Calamity is another troll argument.

Also, play with Armageddon and Defiled Rune on. Mod is no challenge without it. Literally just play Calamity like Rabi-Ribi instead of Terraria and it becomes piss-easy.
It's not binary my guy. DAD mode is extremely challenging, normal Rev/Death Modes are pretty challenging, Expert mode in vanilla is decently challenging. Master is when tediousness starts to get in the way and doesn't make the game's obstacles actually more challenging in a way where someone who beat Expert wouldn't be able to beat it. For The Worthy is just tedious crap and unfun.

No, Shyguymask, beating Daytime EoL without using the 30x30 or what have you square array of platforms that span 4 screens wide or something is NOT an achievement. It's just a testament to your commitment of building 4 screens' worth of 30x30 platforms.....but you probably TEdited it in anyway.
What are you even talking about?

Also, Rod of Discord.
It's really not a win button. I tried for a triple digit amount of attempts to beat the second phase without RoD, I don't know how to explain it but simply put with telefragging in mind it's nearly impossible to dodge EoL's attacks and reposition in time before either getting hit by telefrag or getting hit by the next attack immediately. Without the WASD keys.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
The thing is that while you are true in the surface, in the grand scheme of things Gold/Platinum armor leans toward being a Melee armor in practical gameplay. Mage, Ranger and Summoner all get armor dedicated to their class pre-Boss. But not Melee. Additionally, short-range weapons like Platinum/Gold Short/Broad sword, Starfury's Blade, Sawtooth Shark, Flaming Mace and more demand higher defense to minimize the risk of being used. Well, there's Ancient Shadow Armor, but we don't talk about it for good reasons.
From my practical gameplay this just doesn't happen.
Regardless of what primary weapon you want to use flinx coat's +1 flinx will do more damage than any tiny % damage bonus to weak early game weapons. (throw out the gem robes once you've consumed your mana crystals)
Fossil armor just isn't practical. UD is there hardest prehardmode biome and if I do decide to go there I'd much rather have an extra 1,800 bone throwing knives (only weapon worth rushing UD for).
I rush the jungle quite often and when I do I'll often make jungle armor pieces just for the defense, I almost never have good magic weapon when I do this since jungle has no magic weapons.

Usually in earlygame I may use the flinx coat, head and legs I only think about the defense stat.


With no damage bonuses platinum sword is already weaker than the alternatives, so you don't need lower defense higher damage armors to make other weapon compete with it. Even if you only use melee weapon I have a hard time seeing use for the platinum sword.
 

Shyguymask

Terrarian
Fossil armor just isn't practical. UD is there hardest prehardmode biome and if I do decide to go there I'd much rather have an extra 1,800 bone throwing knives (only weapon worth rushing UD for).
Frostburn arrows with a high tier wood bow is enough for UD, especially on Expert. From there you get PLENTY of desert fossil to mine, and they can even be mined with Copper pickaxes (Pots in UD also shower you with Scarab Bombs). You can also get Fossil Pickaxe that way, which is apparently slightly faster than Gold/Platinum Pickaxes while having the same mining power.
 

Vikilum

Terrarian
If it's a "garbage phase" then it's an extremely short one.
Yes it is.
doesn't make the game's obstacles actually more challenging in a way where someone who beat Expert wouldn't be able to beat it.
You do know that half the game is dealing with Wall of Flesh as a boss and the other half is so easy that I have literally beat the entire game with minecart cheese exclusively, right?
Nobody sees dodging bosses in Terraria as "challenging". You memorize the pattern and then you just dodge it.

I don't even know how people die to bosses when blatantly OP items like Shield of Cthulhu, which allows you to change directions instantly with momentum (making a lot of high-speed ramming bosses considerably easier) exist. I personally don't use SoC unless I'm melee.
What are you even talking about?
Imagine doing a vanilla boss battle in an asphalt arena and the grid of minecart rails and platforms and calling it an achievement, movement keys and no

For the record, I beat Moon Lord without pressing any buttons once the boss spawns, or touching the computer. In the 1.4 patch.

Also, next time use Minecart Rails exclusively for your arena. You build the box so you can grapple, not so it can interrupt your entire Y velocity movement when you fall. If you are going to TEdit in an arena, at least do it right.

It's not binary my guy. DAD mode is extremely challenging, normal Rev/Death Modes are pretty challenging, Expert mode in vanilla is decently challenging.
If you find Expert Mode "decently challenging" instead of "oh I have to play the game properly instead of facetanking everything" I don't know what to say

It's really not a win button. I tried for a triple digit amount of attempts to beat the second phase without RoD, I don't know how to explain it but simply put with telefragging in mind it's nearly impossible to dodge EoL's attacks and reposition in time before either getting hit by telefrag or getting hit by the next attack immediately. Without the WASD keys.
You can use a macro to beat EoL. It's how the boss is designed. It's also the only one out of 2 bosses where you can beat her with a macro without an arena.
The other bosses requires too much real space to use macros, unless you are willing to TEdit in more grids.

The fact that you are still thinking about "dodging" EoL's attacks only show how bad you are at the game. The boss will be in the same position every time. It's like Pac-Man where if you press the same buttons EoL will be in the same place. If you have game knowledge you can actually beat the boss with sound queues alone.

For The Worthy is just tedious crap and unfun.
Nobody finds the dodging part of Terraria challenging. The part they find challenging is managing to kill Wall of Flesh before he goes through your entire world. If you play Terraria to dodge bosses there are a million games out there where you need a considerably higher amount of skill to dodge things.

Would honestly consider Calamity as your baseline dodging game (bullet hell for babies), but it does not really account for bullet accuracy because of how accurate weapons are in general in Terraria.
trying to compare Master Mode and especially For The Worthy to Calamity is another troll argument.
Calamity is a completely different game to Terraria. If you want a good bullet hell game where the player is affected by gravity, try Rabi-Ribi or something. Terraria is not a bullet hell - it's only pretending to be one, when in actuality the game is about managing tilt and WoF speed - the two things which all increased difficulty mode increases.

The difficulty of Twins does not increase or decrease if you use Crystal Storm, Crystal Serpent, or Spirit Lamp. It increases if you are so tilted that you don't bother to prepare Grav Potions because you can't bear the thought of brewing another one by moving all around the map because you used your whole supply on Skeletron.

Either way enemies & bosses having significantly higher stats and yourself getting one-shot even more often is the definition of tediousness over challenge
With how mechanically easy Terraria bosses are, if you don't get 1 shot by them it's honestly no challenge.
The real challenge is doing enough DPS to a boss before it day-despawns. Which is more apparent before the Ichor Whip patch, among others, of course.
You are only going to realistically be doing 1 boss per night anyway, so increased boss HP does nothing.
 
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