ayo? over prepared or just weak boss?
- Thread starter Yande
- Start date
Dreadnautilus5000🌳
Plantera
Personally, I think that all the bosses in Pre-Hardmode are easy, except for the WoF if you're playing melee.
ol' drippy
Queen Bee
I think you should try master mode ftw. When you get hit by a boss it's very punishing so there's a lot more incentive to get good at movement. I did a ftw master mode playthrough with bros and had a blast. We tried doing a drunk playthrough after and being able to tank pre hardmode bosses as a mage felt like a joke. When we fought eoc instead of us moving around like crazy there was a lot more standing around.
There were definitely some frusterating moments and I wouldn't say it's for everyone but the added challenge definitely made bosses more engaging for us. Rather than just steam rolling everything we put more thought into how we approached fighting bosses.
There were definitely some frusterating moments and I wouldn't say it's for everyone but the added challenge definitely made bosses more engaging for us. Rather than just steam rolling everything we put more thought into how we approached fighting bosses.
Last edited:
![Toxophilite [East]](/data/avatars/m/166/166394.jpg?1584244058){kind=avatar}
Toxophilite [East]
Terrarian
It's funny you say this, because there was a previous post suggesting that certain aspect of Terraria were "poorly designed", namely many of the Boss fights. What you've experienced, is how the game feels to play when a person decides to invest in movement. Though I personally believe it trivializes many aspect of the game, there are still a number of Terrarians that struggle with just Expert Mode.
Still, I also believe that the greater difficulty options off-set the power creep in many ways, so even if the game is somewhat easier, there's still a challenge to be found for those seeking it; but at this point, seeking a greater difficulty is becoming some kind of Victory Trope & less a celebration of Terraria being a sandbox.
I like this perspective, because there was a time where Skeletron was one of the most notorious pre-Hardmode Bosses in the game for me. I actually found him, along with Queen Bee, to be some of the most difficult Boss battles in the entire game. However, with the vast amount of powerful items & accessories the player is awarded, many of the things that made Skeletron scary are easily neutralized. Though I'm extremely happy with the state of the game currently, this summarizes a LOT of the reason why I was eager to push-back on the many cries for powerful "early-game" Class kits.
Just the Fledgling Wings themselves, when paired with many kinds of Boot Accessories is a bit much, but I'd always choose "fun" over balance if it makes enough sense.
Dapling
Duke Fishron
"poorly designed" doesn't instantly mean difficult, to be fair. It can just mean something that's potentially unfair due to something like RNG or something else beyond the player's control (see: plantera second phase, the entirety of the moon lord fight), or even just tries to be difficult a certain way but can be cheesed without even the intention of cheesing it.
Toxophilite [East]
Terrarian
Well, as a person who tends to enjoy more difficult games, the person insinuating "poor design" would have to be a lil' more specific about what they're addressing. For example, Dark Souls is considered a classic & also a masterpiece in game design, with many of the Bosses being comparable to Terraria in "difficulty", but also able to be exploited & trivialized in extremely similar manners, though "poorly designed" would never be used there, because it'd simply be out of place.
In addition, with the short time I've been on this particular forum & a much longer period on the Steam forums, normally the common critiques I'd often see could be easily refuted, & were typically players lashing out-out of frustration, with complaints that weren't the least-bit accurate. The large number of times I've had to correct player's assessment about this game on this forum alone, oftentimes being alone in my position, should give some perspective about how frequently it happens.
Sure, many of Terraria's Bosses have gimmicks... that's understood. However, at the same time, many of Terraria's strategies are funneled, because it is & was a community-driven game; again, much like Dark Souls. So my question would be, "what does a player mean when they say poorly designed Bosses?", especially in a community driven game where a large majority of it's audience were taught how to play by a very small group?
I can go on & on about how I've literally had to discuss Terraria with other veterans like the game was politics, just to show them that many of their preconceived notions were false, but that's not what this was about. I just think it'd be helpful if Terrarians were more specific with their complaints, because "poorly written, poorly made & poorly executed" can literally means anything without context; it's not a proper critique.
Last edited:
Capn Fruit Flakes
Terrarian
I don’t really understand the comparison to dark souls here, especially the argument that dark souls is a masterpiece and calling anything in it poorly designed would be out of place. I love dark souls, but some aspects of it are just poorly designed in the way Buffling described. Bed of Chaos is the most egregious example, which is an RNG fest with bad hitboxes.Well, as a person who tends to enjoy more difficult games, the person insinuating "poor design" would have to be a lil' more specific about what they're addressing. For example, Dark Souls is considered a classic & also a masterpiece in game design, with many of the Bosses being comparable to Terraria in "difficulty", but also able to be exploited & trivialized in extremely similar manners, though "poorly designed" would never be used there, because it'd simply be out of place.
In addition, with the short time I've been on this particular forum & a much longer period on the Steam forums, normally the common critiques I'd often see could be easily refuted, & were typically players lashing out-out of frustration, with complaints that weren't the least-bit accurate. The large number of times I've had to correct player's assessment about this game on this forum alone, oftentimes being alone in my position, should give some perspective about how frequently it happens.
Sure, many of Terraria's Bosses have gimmicks... that's understood. However, at the same time, many of Terraria's strategies are funneled, because it is & was a community-driven game; again, much like Dark Souls. So my question would be, "what does a player mean when they say poorly designed Bosses?", especially in a community driven game where a large majority of it's audience were taught how to play by a very small group?
I can go on & on about how I've literally had to discuss Terraria with other veterans like the game was politics, just to show them that many of their preconceived notions were false, but that's not what this was about. I just think it'd be helpful if Terrarians were more specific with their complaints, because "poorly written, poorly made & poorly executed" can literally means anything without context; it's not a proper critique.
Toxophilite [East]
Terrarian
As a fellow Dark Souls player, I'm surprised at you missing the point. Yes, Bed of Chaos is a terrible Boss, but Bed of Chaos doesn't define the game & the developers of Dark Souls didn't make any effort to go back & improve on their "common mistakes" in Dark Souls, even if a Remastered version exists; yet, the game is still an undisputed masterpiece in game design.
Why compare Terraria to Dark Souls at all? Well, if you were part of the general community early-on, many of the critiques about the game were pretty consistent & most older reviews claimed that the game was "a lesson in terrible game design" (Dark Souls). If you haven't yet, you should check out some of the older reviews about 6 months or so after the games' initial release. Well, if it was generally agreed upon that the game was "terrible", what suddenly changed?
Hindsight is always 2020, & we can say now with confidence that it was just that most players at the time had skewed perspectives. A game is normally supposed to be judged by what it does well, right alongside what it does poorly. That's how a review is supposed to work, especially if you're going for an objective review. When you're saying things that just aren't correct though... at all, it stops being about your opinion, because an opinion is normally up for personal taste, but a false claim is a different subject entirely.
"How exactly does one design a great Boss around a game with nearly limitless player creativity?" One fact I would assume that we can all agree on, is that these Bosses will have to be unconventional. The normal type of Bosses you'd find in other titles just wouldn't work here. In many cases, most of Terraria's Bosses are original concepts, that you won't find anywhere else. How do you measure an original concept beside something else?
A lot of these question a similar for both games, how do you measure an original concept up to something else? Do we measure Terraria to Minecraft? I'd hope not! Do we measure it up to something like Shovel Knight, Hollow Knight or Castlevania? I'd suggest this something appropriate, but then we'd run into similar issues with those games... especially the farther back you go in time. What masterpiece has anyone here played that doesn't have it's obvious flaws?
There's more reasons I compare Terraria to Dark Souls that are a bit more personal, but I'd like to stick to the topic as much as possible. Poorly designed Bosses for Terraria isn't appropriate, for similar reasons to Dark Souls. Are there some bad design choices in Dark Souls? Yes, & we can easily communicate them. Are there some bad design choices in Terraria, of course there are, but I'd argue they're much more nuanced because there's very few restrictions on the Player. You don't have to play by the rules if you don't want to... but you have to know that-that's the case in order to appreciate this fact.
What I'm suggesting here is... if there is a Boss as terrible in Terraria as Bed of Chaos is in Dark Souls (a classic game), then details on how & why would be extremely informative, but I just haven't seen it yet in over 5+ years.
Dreadnautilus5000🌳
Plantera
@BuffIing was not suggesting that the Pre-Hardmode bosses are poorly designed, he was just saying that most of them were easy. As he's already said, poorly designed doesn't have to mean easy, it can just mean that elements of the fight don't work together or that player skill and preparation don't play much of a part in beating it. Skeletron isn't an example of a poorly designed boss, he can be a challenge to newer players and he doesn't have any unfair attacks.It's funny you say this, because there was a previous post suggesting that certain aspect of Terraria were "poorly designed", namely many of the Boss fights. What you've experienced, is how the game feels to play when a person decides to invest in movement. Though I personally believe it trivializes many aspect of the game, there are still a number of Terrarians that struggle with just Expert Mode.
Still, I also believe that the greater difficulty options off-set the power creep in many ways, so even if the game is somewhat easier, there's still a challenge to be found for those seeking it; but at this point, seeking a greater difficulty is becoming some kind of Victory Trope & less a celebration of Terraria being a sandbox.
I like this perspective, because there was a time where Skeletron was one of the most notorious pre-Hardmode Bosses in the game for me. I actually found him, along with Queen Bee, to be some of the most difficult Boss battles in the entire game. However, with the vast amount of powerful items & accessories the player is awarded, many of the things that made Skeletron scary are easily neutralized. Though I'm extremely happy with the state of the game currently, this summarizes a LOT of the reason why I was eager to push-back on the many cries for powerful "early-game" Class kits.
Just the Fledgling Wings themselves, when paired with many kinds of Boot Accessories is a bit much, but I'd always choose "fun" over balance if it makes enough sense.
Toxophilite [East]
Terrarian
I trust that this isn't what it seemed I was implying, I was just using certain posts that had high traffic before, in addition to some rather newer ones, that made similar claims about "terrible" or "boring" Bosses in Terraria. If I recall, one of the most recent was about defeating the WoF, mostly about how time-consuming it was just to prepare for the fight. Luckily, myself & several other veterans corrected some misconceptions, among other things.
Just to be clear, I'm fully aware at just how much easier pre-Hardmode/ early-Hardmode is now, compared to 1.3.5, but I can't necessarily say that I fully disagree with the changes. What we got in the end, was totally worth making the game easier; as I said earlier, it's always the better design choice to choose "fun" over balance or even over "difficulty".
WillowTehKitsune
The Destroyer
WoF is super easy with Cascade, Water Walking Potion and Inferno Potion to keep The Hungry down.
Dreadnautilus5000🌳
Plantera
What difficulty are you talking about?
Even if you’re talking about Master Mode, ranged and mage has easier-to-use options with much more range and summoner has extraordinary whip DPS thanks to Obsidian armour.
WillowTehKitsune
The Destroyer
i only play normal mode honestly but with the yoyo's range it would probs apply to this too
also inferno potion always applies
The Hungry are the only Underworld enemies that can be set on fire
also inferno potion always applies
The Hungry are the only Underworld enemies that can be set on fire
Dapling
Duke Fishron
In normal mode you can make literally anything work against everything.
WillowTehKitsune
The Destroyer
i have never gotten melee to work for plantera
then again ive never gotten there except on 3ds and a really old version of mobile
then again ive never gotten there except on 3ds and a really old version of mobile
Dapling
Duke Fishron
People have been facetanking her and taking her out with Fetid Baghnakhs while not moving for years.
WillowTehKitsune
The Destroyer
neither of those versions had biome mimics
Dapling
Duke Fishron
Those versions also had drax in prehardmode and Death Sickle, sooooo... Melee was pretty strong against plantera off of those two things alone.