Weapons & Equip Balance and Weapon rework suggestions

I wouldn’t say Flinxes are the best prehardmode minion, if that’s what you’re getting at. Vampire Frogs’ combined body and tongue have easily more DPS by a big enough margin to make up for the difference in AI, which isn’t even that severe, and Frogs can jump through multiple targets at once. Vampires do have iframe clashes though, so it doesn’t hurt to run another minion with them.
I'd say flinxes and vampire frogs are sidegrades to each other, flinxes seem to perfom better against flying bosses and vampire frogs everything else.

But you know what's even better? Both at once! They both have around the same max attack speed however due to the way static immunity works you can reach a much higher attack rate of you split your slots between the two minions, and with how few minion slots you have in pre hardmode those two minion don't leave any room for others.
 
Flinxes and Frogs are the best – out of question. Both pre-Boss ans viable up until farming Spiders in HM. (Combined tag dmg fron Snapthorn+ Spinal tap). S or S+ tier I'd say.
Imps still have way less longevity, but can assist extremely well in OOA, Skeletron, Queen Bee fights, so they are now just "good". In between B+ And A-.
And conceptually it is something new – a ranged piercing minion

Speaking of longevity: would Imps perform well vs Black Reckluses with Firecracker?
Havent done the testing yet.

I'm having a really hard time comtemplating about the Hornet staff. It's flawed. I mean really. DPS is crappy – about twice as low as frogs (of flinxes if tagged) and misses every single time
Buff its velocity? No damage...
Buff its damage? Missed shots, poor with whips...
Buff shooting speed? Misses again
Buff them all? Still bad against crowds
Is it not designed for crowds? Wrong design. Every other pre-HM minion is good here (yes, the Slime Staff too if you are the luckiest person in the universe)
Its like a pre-HM Tempest staff
Flinx and Frogs leave it in the dust in any situation and even Imps have better single(!) DPS, while infinitely piercing and better velocity

Flinxes+Frogs simultaneously sound interesting, worth a try. Maybe even 2 of each with Imps for 6 slot

Wait! The best is to heavily nerf Slimes, Flinxes, Frogs, Imps. And what a magic! Hornets are in line with them
 
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The problem I have with the imp staff is that the flinx staff seems to out perform it... a weapon you get at the beginning of the game.
Even though its base damage is lower it attacks much faster and its much better at distrubing enemies, and if you bring whips into the equiation there is no competition.

Sure once you get 3 flinxes they'll attack so fast that you'll want to use another minion... the vampire frog, imp gets the honor of being your 6th minion and at that point I'd ask... why are you using bee armor?
Bee armor? An old habit, really like 6 minions
With Obsidian its obvious that Imps are worse
Here it is about tag dmg and speed
And no extra slots at all
 
I can't be the only person bothered by the relative power of the flinx, imp and hornet.
Like flinx staff is gold tier, while imps are molten and hornet is from queen bee.

Just imagine if there was a consensus that the gold bow and blood rain bow are the best bows pre hardmode, and we were trying to find a niche where the molten fury was better, and everyone gave up on the bee's knees.
 
I can't be the only person bothered by the relative power of the flinx, imp and hornet.
Like flinx staff is gold tier, while imps are molten and hornet is from queen bee.

Just imagine if there was a consensus that the gold bow and blood rain bow are the best bows pre hardmode, and we were trying to find a niche where the molten fury was better, and everyone gave up on the bee's knees.
Nah, disagree. Ranger has a ton of powerful weapons even without bows.
Imps are okay, because there is only 5 minions Pre-HM. 1 is super rare and 1 is super poor. Tier gradaton is blurred due to this.
For the sake of new experience, Imps are fine. Generally a bit worse, but sometimes better.
When you have only 3 viable weapons for almost a half of the game, every single one is precious.


Added recommenadion to the Horsemans Blade
 
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Nah, disagree. Ranger has a ton of powerful weapons even without bows.
Imps are okay, because there is only 5 minions Pre-HM. 1 is super rare and 1 is super poor. Tier gradaton is blurred due to this.
For the sake of new experience, Imps are fine. Generally a bit worse, but sometimes better.
The imp staff should be the one that's better overall, if flinx can squeeze out a niche over it to make up for the low number of minions that's fine.

But right now we're dealing with the reverse where the flinx staff is the better one and we're trying to find a niche for imp.
 
The imp staff should be the one that's better overall, if flinx can squeeze out a niche over it to make up for the low number of minions that's fine.

But right now we're dealing with the reverse where the flinx staff is the better one and we're trying to find a niche for imp.
Imps themselves are better vs Skeletron and OOA, exactly where they need to be (even with spinal tap). Okay otherwise
Skeletron: flinx and frogs cannot catch arms fast enough. DPS is the same

We cant agree about definition of each weapon
Flinx/Frog = outstanding (S) , Imp = fine (A/B) even bearing in mind their tier in progression.
Fine =/= the necessity to be buffed.
It is more safe to beg the developers to buff Hornets, they really do need it. But idk what to suggest here
 
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There's no way imps out perform flinxes in the skeletron fight, skeletron has low defense, and flinxes have a higher base dps even without whips, once you bring whips into the equation there's no competition.
 
There's no way imps out perform flinxes in the skeletron fight, skeletron has low defense, and flinxes have a higher base dps even without whips, once you bring whips into the equation there's no competition.
About 160-180 DPS vs head (arms dead), they are equal. Tagged by snapthorn, 5 minions
More consistent dmg for imps against arms while moving
 
About 160-180 DPS vs head (arms dead), they are equal. Tagged by snapthorn, 5 minions
More consistent dmg for imps against arms while moving
'5 minions' that's where the difference is, once you have 3 flinxes they get thier max hitrate, you'll want to fill the rest of your slots with something else... ideally a vamp frog. Also how are you getting 5 slots pre skeltron? you don't have a bewitching table... oh yeah bee armor.

I usually only have 3 slots by skeletron since I fight him before queen bee.
 
'5 minions' that's where the difference is, once you have 3 flinxes they get thier max hitrate, you'll want to fill the rest of your slots with something else... ideally a vamp frog. Also how are you getting 5 slots pre skeltron? you don't have a bewitching table... oh yeah bee armor.

I usually only have 3 slots by skeletron since I fight him before queen bee.
3 flinx + 2 imps = 3 flinx + 2 frogs
local immunity or attack variety
It case of Skeletron – DPS (not by much) or kill hands more precisely

Imps dont scale very well above 3 slots, so in this case it should be no difference with 3 flinx
 
If you can show that imps have a faster kill time than flinxes against skeletron with pre queen bee gear I'll believe you.

Like... think about what sort of situation you'd have to be in to use 5 imps against skeletron, you have to get shadow scales to make a pick that can mine hellstone, you have to get a hellforge, and you have to mine obsidian, everything you need for obsidian armor, but instead of making obsidian armor you go and kill queen bee so you can get bee armor and a pygmy necklace.
I'd argue that you should fight skeltron first since 1 free minion from the bewithcing table is more useful than having to spend an acceosry slot for one with the pygmy necklace, also being able to stack tags with the spinal tap is more useful than be armor, also if you plan on using that pygmy necklace for an imp... look at the bone glove.
 
4 imps + snapthorn = 1.08
3 flinxes 1 frog + snapthorn = 1.19
3 frogs 1 flinx + snapthorn = 1.16

Set is pre-Skeletron. All fights started at 7.30 PM
Gear
gear.gif


4 imps
4 imps.gif

3 flinxes, 1 frog
3 flinx 1 frog.gif

3 frogs, 1 flinx
3 frog 1 flinx.gif
 
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