Best Mixed Builds?

[SolaR]

What do you think would be the best endgame build for a player who uses magic AND melee weapons, or any mix of the melee, ranged, magic, and summoner classes? I'd like to know about the one I mentioned though, melee/magic.

 

[DicemanX]

Best is most likely a summoner hybrid. For instance, 3 of the 5 accessory slots can be reserved for Necromantic Scroll, Papyrus Scarab, and Pygmy Necklace. If you start with the ideal summoner set-up you can summon 4 sharknados that deal 150 damage each, or 4 ravens that deal 112 damage each, and then switch into beetle armor for melee or spectre armor for magic. Simply put, if you go summoner then each summoner accessory counts for 150 or 112 damage per hit. A single accessory is not capable of such a massive damage boost for any of the pure classes.

 

[Khaelis]

In terms of damage, all four can be amazingly good.

I personally enjoy Ranged the best with Melee being in second place. I hardly ever touch Magic and Summon stuff, especially Magic. I don't find it very enjoyable.

 

[360NOSCOPE]

I do an all out hybrid. I have one of each classes weapons (sometimes more) in my hot bar at once. This can make for some great dps. Example, waterbolt and megashark.

 

[SolaR]

So anyone know a good endgame melee/magic armor build?

 

[Eanator]

If you want a magic/melee hybrid I recommend a Golden Shower and a Terra Blade. Use Either beetle or spectral armor depending on how good you are at dodging. Whatever accessories you have, make sure you are buffing your attack speed. Attack Speed + Crits + Terra blade + Golden shower debuff = Carnage. Cheers!

 

[FlakMaster]

Best is most likely a summoner hybrid. For instance, 3 of the 5 accessory slots can be reserved for Necromantic Scroll, Papyrus Scarab, and Pygmy Necklace. If you start with the ideal summoner set-up you can summon 4 sharknados that deal 150 damage each, or 4 ravens that deal 112 damage each, and then switch into beetle armor for melee or spectre armor for magic. Simply put, if you go summoner then each summoner accessory counts for 150 or 112 damage per hit. A single accessory is not capable of such a massive damage boost for any of the pure classes.

Where are you getting such figures from? Tempest Staff's base is only 50, I don't know how you're increasing it by 200%. Even if it were true, summons can be pretty unreliable, slow, inaccurate and you can't control their targeting.

My simply recommendation for 'mixed builds' is pretty much having the Avenger Emblem, Destroyer Emblem and Celestial Emblem. All of those boosts are universal and makes any weapon viable. Nimbus Rod, Rainbow Gun, Vampire Knives and Terra Blade are examples this universal boost benefits from a lot. You can then select the armour of your choice afterwards.

Edit: To be honest, I don't know why Celestial Stone doesn't give you a +1 summon.

 

[DicemanX]

Where are you getting such figures from? Tempest Staff's base is only 50, I don't know how you're increasing it by 200%. Even if it were true, summons can be pretty unreliable, slow, inaccurate and you can't control their targeting.

I have plenty of threads and videos explaining how to reach the maximum damage for minions. For instance:

http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...inal-wave-at-10-30pm-42-platinum-night.17682/

The minions provide a pretty significant boost to overall DPS, and they are certainly not slow or inaccurate or unreliable. As I said, the cost of having an extra 2 or 3 minions is fairly minimal - those 2-3 accessories that would normally boost DPS of a weapon would not boost the damage close to the extra damage gained from the minions.

 

[FlakMaster]

I have plenty of threads and videos explaining how to reach the maximum damage for minions. For instance:

http://forums.terraria.org/index.ph...inal-wave-at-10-30pm-42-platinum-night.17682/

The minions provide a pretty significant boost to overall DPS, and they are certainly not slow or inaccurate or unreliable. As I said, the cost of having an extra 2 or 3 minions is fairly minimal - those 2-3 accessories that would normally boost DPS of a weapon would not boost the damage close to the extra damage gained from the minions.

I still don't see where that 200% comes from.

That, and the whole game doesn't revolve around one event of which you prepare for in extreme measures. Exploring the HM Dungeon, Jungle or whatnot? The summons can often get caught on random obstacles and the ones that shoot projectiles always fire at where their target is at the current time, not where they will be, so they often miss against mobs such as the Moss Hornets.

I have tried summons extensively before, so I do know how they work. Maybe not at their pinnacle in moon events when you're controlling spawning and whatnot tightly, but in the more common scenario where you aren't in your controlled environment.

 

[W1K]

Nimbus Rod and Rainbow Gun are pretty great DPS mixing material for magic as you don't exactly need to keep shooting them to constantly deal dps. Of course, to go along with them decently, you'd need a weapon that does not deal piercing damage, so that Nimbus Rod or Rainbow Gun are not going to prevent you from hitting with any other weapon. Death Sickle can help you to achieve a similar result, but with much more weapon swapping.

In terms of armor, I'd go for Beetle primarily if your mix involves melee as all classes benefit from defense, or Spectre if your mix involves magic but NOT melee as all classes benefit from Nimbus Rod/Rainbow Gun's life steal.

Weapon-wise, any gun with Crystal Bullets can output crazy dps without the need of any damage boost and every bullet plus shard is going to be non-piercing. Explosives are rather out of the question if you intend to mix over-time piercing weapons with direct DPS as most of them deal AoE piercing and direct damage. Tsunami with Holy Arrow is also pretty crazy but rather situational, while the arrows are not going to pierce, the stars will, which can potentially reduce dps when used in conjunction with any other piercing weapon. Flairon currently holds the title of overall highest dps melee weapon and it's an all-around versatile weapon that can output a great amount of dps and all its projectiles are non-piercing and homing, which means they will always hit. Terra Blade currently holds the highest dps of all the swords and of course, its ease to use and high dps make it a good choice, however its beams do pierce and that can harm dps when mixing weapons. Paladin's Hammer dps is also decent but its essentially piercing fest so it might end up hitting nothing if used in conjunction with Nimbus Rod/Rainbow Gun.
Also don't forget to always have a summon out as it's going to improve dps regardless of whether you are focusing on summoning or not. Tempest is the best summon there is. Pygmy is the second best DPS summon if you are going to be standing on a surface most of the time, otherwise, go Raven.

For accessories, go overall damage and critical chance.
Celestial Stone is a MUST. Moon and Sun stones are also great and probably better than any other alternative but you might need to constantly switch between them, and yes, they do stack with Celestial. Note that they don't only improve generic damage, but they also provide slight defense boost, slight crit boost, minions knockback, digging speed and 2hp/s life regen, every effect doubled if two stones are equipped.
Of course, Avenger Emblem, Destroyer Emblem and Eye of the Golem are going to help your dps greatly.

 

[DicemanX]

I still don't see where that 200% comes from.

Well, then I guess you will remain in the dark if you're not able to do the calculations or verify for yourself in-game. Interesting that you claim that you have "tried summons extensively before" and yet are unaware of how to summon them properly. This means your experiences are pretty much moot, given that you weren't playing with minions at their maximum power.

We're also discussing a summoner hybrid here (not a full-on summoner), which uses a powerful weapon and strong armor in conjunction with 3 or 4 minions. For the hybrid summoner the weapon damage is not too far off from maximum, and yet you're accompanied by minions that basically add an extra 450 to 600 damage per hit.

That, and the whole game doesn't revolve around one event of which you prepare for in extreme measures.

Yes, of course the game doesn't revolve around one event. I never claimed that the set-up was for one purpose only. I provided the link for the protocol to maximize minion damage.

Exploring the HM Dungeon, Jungle or whatnot? The summons can often get caught on random obstacles and the ones that shoot projectiles always fire at where their target is at the current time, not where they will be, so they often miss against mobs such as the Moss Hornets.

We're talking about endgame set-ups, and you're worried about moss hornets? Trash mobs are not exactly relevant to the discussion here because they can be crushed by pretty much any endgame weapon (and again I remind you we're discussing a hybrid with a powerful weapon, NOT a full summoner). Of much greater importance is how the set-up fares against bosses and events.

I have tried summons extensively before, so I do know how they work. Maybe not at their pinnacle in moon events when you're controlling spawning and whatnot tightly, but in the more common scenario where you aren't in your controlled environment.

Well, I'm claiming that the summoner hybrid is by far the strongest in common scenarios, not just in "controlled environments", based on both play experience and DPS calculations. You're getting too hung up on situations where some minions might get temporarily stuck in walls when fighting mobs you can obliterate in seconds anyways. Every boss fight or moon event will not cause these problems because they are fights in open spaces.

 

[FlakMaster]

Well, then I guess you will remain in the dark if you're not able to do the calculations or verify for yourself in-game.

Yes, because I would totes spend half an hour to back up every single argument I make in TCF. I wasn't fully denying that getting 200% was impossible, rather indirectly asking for a direct source that proves such (mathematically) and am

Interesting that you claim that you have "tried summons extensively before" and yet are unaware of how to summon them properly.

'How to summon them properly'. So it's not proper unless it's the best of the best ways? Interesting, calm down with the elitism there.

Yes, of course the game doesn't revolve around one event. I never claimed that the set-up was for one purpose only. I provided the link for the protocol to maximize minion damage.

And I was trying to say that the PM is not necessarily a good example to choose from if your ravens are very capable of constantly hitting mobs you 'control' the movements of.

We're talking about endgame set-ups, and you're worried about moss hornets? Trash mobs are not exactly relevant to the discussion here because they can be crushed by pretty much any endgame weapon, making the discussion of best class or best hybrid irrelevant. Of much greater importance is how the set-up fares against bosses and events.

Example is an example. I used moss hornet as a baseline for 'something that moves'.

I don't know how else I can explain the inaccuracy of mobs. When you fire at something, but then it moves, it will avoid the shot. Basic evasion. This is what the summons suffer from. Ravens are exempt from this, because they don't shoot projectiles.

Well, I'm claiming that the summoner hybrid is by far the strongest in common scenarios, not just in "controlled environments", based on both play experience and DPS calculations. You're getting too hung up on situations where some minions might get temporarily stuck in walls when fighting mobs you can obliterate in seconds anyways.

So if the only 'valid' examples for this are the Pumpkin, Frost Moon and Duke Fishron, then maybe you should state that it is not solely building up summoning strength maximises its potential, rather utilising the environment to its fullest brings it to a new high.

Compare that to Tsunami + Holy arrows, of which you only need the bare minimum in arena design.

 

[DicemanX]

Yes, because I would totes spend half an hour to back up every single argument I make in TCF. I wasn't fully denying that getting 200% was impossible, rather indirectly asking for a direct source that proves such (mathematically) and am

Simple advice: don't argue or contest something if you're ignorant about it and are unwilling to verify for yourself. The summoning protocol has been presented, and that's that.

'How to summon them properly'. So it's not proper unless it's the best of the best ways? Interesting, calm down with the elitism there.

We're in a thread discussing best class or hybrid, so yes it definitely matters if you use the proper summoning protocol, and no, it isn't elitist to point that out.

And I was trying to say that the PM is not necessarily a good example to choose from if your ravens are very capable of constantly hitting mobs you 'control' the movements of.

I didn't choose a PM example. I provided the link for the summoning protocol. I explained this when I provided the link.

Example is an example. I used moss hornet as a baseline for 'something that moves'.

And I pointed out that whatever trash mob you cite is irrelevant to the dicussion. If it's small enough that the sharknados will miss it, it isn't worthy of discussion.

I don't know how else I can explain the inaccuracy of mobs. When you fire at something, but then it moves, it will avoid the shot. Basic evasion. This is what the summons suffer from. Ravens are exempt from this, because they don't shoot projectiles.

You don't need to explain, because you keep getting hung up on trivial and irrelevant things. Anything small enough to possibly evade a sharknado can be killed quickly by any endgame weapon.

So if the only 'valid' examples for this are the Pumpkin, Frost Moon and Duke Fishron, then maybe you should state that it is not solely building up summoning strength maximises its potential, rather utilising the environment to its fullest brings it to a new high.

The summoner hybrid excels in boss fights (not just Fishron) and moon events. Against trash mobs the comparisons among all the pure classes and hybrid classes are largly moot in the end-game, because mobs can be killed very quickly. Therefore, in the discussion of best class, it would make the most sense to focus on performance against events and bosses when attempting to determine what is the best overall class/hybrid.

Compare that to Tsunami + Holy arrows, of which you only need the bare minimum in arena design.

The summoner hybrid doesn't need *any* arena design. The summoner hybrid can also use the Tsunami and Holy Arrows. It is thus unclear what you're attempting to compare.

 

[FlakMaster]

Simple advice: don't argue or contest something if you're ignorant about it and are unwilling to verify for yourself. The summoning protocol has been presented, and that's that.

Simple advice: If someone claims something and you think it's wrong, shove the proof in their faces. It's on you to prove it, not me. I'd go far enough to say that you should have provided an exact quotation rather than leaving me to explore. And if you're regarding to this:

1) Put on Spooky set, Celestial Stone, Avenger Emblem, Hercules Beetle, Papyrus Scarab, Necromantic Scroll (all Menacing)
2) Drink Summon Potion (+1 minion), Wrath Potion (+10% minion damage), and eat Pumpkin Pie (+5% minion damage)
3) Summon 7 Ravens using a Ruthless Raven Staff
4) Swap in Pygmy Necklace (Menacing) for Celestial Stone and summon 8th minion
5) Swap in Tiki set for Spooky set and summon 9th minion

I just did the maths myself and you are right.

The summoner hybrid can also use the Tsunami and Holy Arrows.

To a greater effect than using Shroomite?

 

[DicemanX]

To a greater effect than using Shroomite?

The hybrid summoner would use shroomite armor when wielding the Tsunami.

The hybrid summoner I'm advocating only sacrifices 2 or 3 accessory slots for the extra 2 or 3 minions. Otherwise, the hybrid is built just like any pure class. So, for instance, the ranger/summoner hybrid would look like this:

Shroomite Armor
Tsunami

Necromantic Scroll
Papyrus Scarab
Destroyer Emblem
Sniper Scope
Fishron Wings


The two summoner accessories would allow for 3 Sharknados at 150 damage per hit. If they are replacing a ranger emblem and avenger emblem used by a pure ranger (and assuming the accessories are reforged to 3x menacing and 2x lucky), then that means losing about 28 damage per Tsunami arrow while gaining 450 damage per 3 sharknado hits. It might even be worth ditching the destroyer emblem for a pygmy necklace.

 

[FlakMaster]

Oh right, I keep forgetting.

I find the way summon damage works really odd. It essentially makes spooky armour and accessories similar to a 'buff' from a potion without a timer. Don't really agree with that, was hoping it'd be fixed in 1.3. Not that it is relevant to this much.

 

[SolaR]

Is it necessary to have a mana flower and/or Arcane accessories when you have a lot of super mana potions?

 

[Mattix]

Is it necessary to have a mana flower and/or Arcane accessories when you have a lot of super mana potions?

It is better to have Celestial Cuffs. And now there's the potion cooldown which lowers your damage, and DPS is important.

 

[W1K]

I wouldn't suggest switching an accessory slot for Celestial Cuffs when you'll be barely running out of mana. If you plan on only using Rainbow Gun/Nimbus Rod to augment dps, you'll essentially never run out of mana. If you plan on using any other magic weapon but are going for a hybrid build, you can simply switch to another damage type when running out of mana. Even then, using Celestial Cuffs in general tends to hurt dps as the dps reduction from mana sickness is only about 15% in 5 seconds (25% the first second of the debuff, 5% on fifth and last second, averaged), not worth it when you can simply either use Sorcerer Emblem to mitigate it entirely or any other emblem to mitigate it almost completely.
Regarding Mana Flower, while the mana efficiency is useful to slightly improve dps and magic weapons versatility, you're not going to be running out of mana as much as a full caster and you'll have an alternative to magic when running out of mana anyway, so it's an almost entirely wasted accessory slot. Of course, you don't need the ability it has to automatically use mana potions as you can simply press a key and use the potion yourself anyway. Arcane does help to improve magic weapons versatility, but again, that's lost dps as mana is not a concern and Menacing or Warding should be the ways to go for virtually every build.

 

[colDelay]

I don't have any HM mixed builds, but I do have an early HM Ranger/Summoner build:

Weapons and armor:
Clockwork Assault Rifle + Crystal Bullets (or Party Bullets outside of boss battles)
Spider Staff
Spider Queen Staff
Spider Armor
Accessories:

Frozen Wings
Spectre Boots
Obsidian Shield
Star Veil
Philosopher's Stone

This loadout can get you past the Mechs and if you're skilled enough, then you can also get past Plantera.