tModLoader Calamity Mod

[General Milky]

Yeah, that's one of Calamity's biggest flaws. It's schitzo in the power curve. I think pretty much everyone knows this by now, but Calamity gear tends to outshine other mods' stuff, ESPECIALLY on the offensive front.

Defensively, however, the crown goes to Thorium. Before it capped DR at 35% it was possible to get 90-ish% DR in between Thorium and vanilla ALONE, and pretty much everything in it jacks regen up. Even in just vanilla, a setup can be achieved where you just can't really die unless something sets you on fire, so while Calamity shoulders some blame for making the player too strong, the problem itself has been around forever.

 

[xJake]

This is kind of the point that I was trying to make earlier. Calamity itself created the problem that Drew is now trying to rectify by nerfing base mechanics.

I'm pretty convinced though that this attempt at nerfing "broken" mechanics isn't necessarily aimed at balancing Calamity/vanilla, but rather aimed at other mods that increase the power of the character even further. Namely Fargo's. I just don't think it's worth considering however. The game with just the vanilla/Calamity experience is perfectly well balanced from what I have experienced so far. Trying to compensate for the power creep of other mods just reduces the quality of the experience for people who aren't using those mods, and almost makes those other mods now a requirement to be able to fully enjoy the experience.. which is quite counter intuitive IMO.

To your other point.. I suspect the idea was that the Calamity devs initially wanted to make extremely challenging boss encounters, and were forced to make incredibly powerful gear in order to make those challenges beatable.

from what I gather in this thread, all of the issues that this mod faces are self-inflicted. I REALLY want to support Drew and back him up, but he is unwilling accept criticism that would genuinely help improve the mod. I am for some new additions and changes to certain things, but nothing that nerfs and/or punishes the player for becoming stronger.

I will come to an agreement that even vanilla has its faults even in expert, but as someone who has put 100s-1000s of hours into the game, I adapted to the higher difficulty; however, Calamity pushes for the exact opposite in terms of adapting to difficulty. It's an entirely new type of game play that FORCES you to play a certain way otherwise you're SOL, and things are nigh unbeatable. I've been hearing that even popular Terraria youtubers were describing boss fights as "going through hell" or even "taking too long."

Calamity introduces a process that is tedious at its core as you progress into the post-ML phase. This where ALL of my glaring issues with the mod take place. Negative regen that makes it so you lose HP unless you have the well-fed buff (noticed that this doesn't even work at times), to DoG being nigh unbeatable not just in revengeance -- but also in expert.

Let me make one thing clear though:

I DO NOT HATE THIS MOD. I just have serious issues with some of the design choices and mechanics post-ML. Bosses become chores to fight/farm for godly gear, certain things become boring/tedious to handle (acid rain much?), negative health regen, etc.

I LOVE this mod, I LOVE the content. Just rollback some of the design flaws that nerf the player rather than provide good, fun challenge. I don't like having to play the way the mod wants me to play. I want to play MY way. Just add in newer enemies or biome(s) that provide these debuffs and new obstacles to overcome (which is why I have fun with the game itself to begin with).

Modifying the vanilla game's mechanics to suit YOUR wants/needs is an insult to the game developers themselves. THEY will fix what needs to be fixed (some others at the request of the community). This is THE core contrast between other mod devs and game devs themselves, and Drew.

If the criticism is too much for you to handle, take it with a grain of salt.
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Can someone explain to me the deal behind the Doggo balancing? Why is it so bad for people to ask for a nerf let alone get one? They're basically mocked considering how you can't even butcher him and he's constantly getting buffed for no legit reason.

Drew doesn't like it when other people (mods) beat his bosses. He doesn't like it when his bosses are exploited and destroyed in less than 10 minutes. Before DoG received the buffs that turned him into the beast that he is now, it still took me 4hrs to beat him using mounts, RoD, and other weapons and accessories, and that was after dying 10 different times and proper preparations. I had to exploit an item that revived me every minute from another mod. The accessory was from Thorium to be exact and is dropped by Coznix.

 

[orangepecan]

Yeah, that's one of Calamity's biggest flaws. It's schitzo in the power curve. I think pretty much everyone knows this by now, but Calamity gear tends to outshine other mods' stuff, ESPECIALLY on the offensive front.

I have found this as well. I have run this mod along with Thorium and Spirit and found the absurd power level of the Calamity gear really cheapens the experience with the other mods because I barely use anything from the other mods. The Calamity items are just objectively superior for most of the game, and all of post-ML (mainly because those two mods don't have much to do post-ML).

Yeah, that's one of Calamity's biggest flaws. It's schitzo in the power curve. I think pretty much everyone knows this by now, but Calamity gear tends to outshine other mods' stuff, ESPECIALLY on the offensive front.

Defensively, however, the crown goes to Thorium. Before it capped DR at 35% it was possible to get 90-ish% DR in between Thorium and vanilla ALONE, and pretty much everything in it jacks regen up. Even in just vanilla, a setup can be achieved where you just can't really die unless something sets you on fire, so while Calamity shoulders some blame for making the player too strong, the problem itself has been around forever.

I am still waiting for precisely what from vanilla causes these issues.

Again, the closest I have ever come to invincibility, ASIDE from abusing 1 damage immunity frames, is sitting in honey with the Solar Flare Armor surrounded by 10 heart statues.

How exactly does one achieve face tanking immunity simply from gear alone in vanilla?

Drew doesn't like it when other people (mods) beat his bosses.

No offense to anyone, especially Drew, but I think this is exactly what is at the core of this whole situation: Drew's pride. I'm fairly certain that's the only reason we're seeing all these debuffs and balance changes, etc.

I'm with you.. I love the mod, I don't love some of the design decisions that do nothing but punish the player for making progress.

 

[General Milky]

I am still waiting for precisely what from vanilla causes these issues.

Again, the closest I have ever come to invincibility, ASIDE from abusing 1 damage immunity frames, is sitting in honey with the Solar Flare Armor surrounded by 10 heart statues.

How exactly does one achieve face tanking immunity simply from gear alone in vanilla?

It's as easy as stacking as many sources of regen and DR as possible. Worm scarf, endurance potion, frozen turtle shell, beetle shell (optional, most classes obviously will not use it) as much DR as you can get, and then you start stacking regen. Celestial stone, moon/sun stone, all the potions, campfire/heart lantern, charm of myths, cross necklace if you can fit it. A small puddle of honey, Life force potion for more max HP. All of this together makes your HP regen so fast that you can recover about 50 health before your iframes wear off, and all the DR/health potion use increase the range of what damage you take that counts as "safe." With this setup, you are practically invincible, only the hardest hitting things will threaten you, and even then only if they hit you just all the time. Add in vampire knives and not even those can do too terribly much to you, but why even bother?

 

[orangepecan]

It's as easy as stacking as many sources of regen and DR as possible. Worm scarf, endurance potion, frozen turtle shell, beetle shell (optional, most classes obviously will not use it) as much DR as you can get, and then you start stacking regen. Celestial stone, moon/sun stone, all the potions, campfire/heart lantern, charm of myths, cross necklace if you can fit it. A small puddle of honey, Life force potion for more max HP. All of this together makes your HP regen so fast that you can recover about 50 health before your iframes wear off, and all the DR/health potion use increase the range of what damage you take that counts as "safe." With this setup, you are practically invincible, only the hardest hitting things will threaten you, and even then only if they hit you just all the time. Add in vampire knives and not even those can do too terribly much to you, but why even bother?

Pretty close to the set up I used to use in vanilla for farming Moon Lord I guess. It was mostly the heart statues that kept me alive. I guess that little bit of extra DR/regen provided by those accessories I never bothered using (Sun/Moon Stone separately, etc.) make a big difference.

 

[xJake]

I have found this as well. I have run this mod along with Thorium and Spirit and found the absurd power level of the Calamity gear really cheapens the experience with the other mods because I barely use anything from the other mods. The Calamity items are just objectively superior for most of the game, and all of post-ML (mainly because those two mods don't have much to do post-ML).



I am still waiting for precisely what from vanilla causes these issues.

Again, the closest I have ever come to invincibility, ASIDE from abusing 1 damage immunity frames, is sitting in honey with the Solar Flare Armor surrounded by 10 heart statues.

How exactly does one achieve face tanking immunity simply from gear alone in vanilla?



No offense to anyone, especially Drew, but I think this is exactly what is at the core of this whole situation: Drew's pride. I'm fairly certain that's the only reason we're seeing all these debuffs and balance changes, etc.

I'm with you.. I love the mod, I don't love some of the design decisions that do nothing but punish the player for making progress.

Some things to address here:

1. One doesn't simply achieve face tanking in vanilla (at least not anymore since Spec Hood nerf). Face Tanking argument doesn't work here for those who would make it.

2. Nothing from vanilla really causes much issue except for maybe a handful of cheap deaths from traps or certain mobs (reeeeeeeeeeee boulders!)

3. Calamity mod accessories are objectively superior in every way, though the only thing from Calamity I use on my mage build is the Sigil. Other key components are unobtainable unless I beat DoG -- in which case melee tends to become the more clearer choice.

Overall, I concur.

 

[Kefke]

So, in regards to the futility of trying to balance for other people's mods, I found this on the mod browser...

Not looking to start more beef, just thought it was hilariously relevant.

 

[Poly]

So, in regards to the futility of trying to balance for other people's mods, I found this on the mod browser...

Not looking to start more beef, just thought it was hilariously relevant.

download that mod and try it out, thats luiafk's correct?

 

[Poly]

from what I gather in this thread, all of the issues that this mod faces are self-inflicted. I REALLY want to support Drew and back him up, but he is unwilling accept criticism that would genuinely help improve the mod. I am for some new additions and changes to certain things, but nothing that nerfs and/or punishes the player for becoming stronger.

I will come to an agreement that even vanilla has its faults even in expert, but as someone who has put 100s-1000s of hours into the game, I adapted to the higher difficulty; however, Calamity pushes for the exact opposite in terms of adapting to difficulty. It's an entirely new type of game play that FORCES you to play a certain way otherwise you're SOL, and things are nigh unbeatable. I've been hearing that even popular Terraria youtubers were describing boss fights as "going through hell" or even "taking too long."

Calamity introduces a process that is tedious at its core as you progress into the post-ML phase. This where ALL of my glaring issues with the mod take place. Negative regen that makes it so you lose HP unless you have the well-fed buff (noticed that this doesn't even work at times), to DoG being nigh unbeatable not just in revengeance -- but also in expert.

Let me make one thing clear though:

I DO NOT HATE THIS MOD. I just have serious issues with some of the design choices and mechanics post-ML. Bosses become chores to fight/farm for godly gear, certain things become boring/tedious to handle (acid rain much?), negative health regen, etc.

I LOVE this mod, I LOVE the content. Just rollback some of the design flaws that nerf the player rather than provide good, fun challenge. I don't like having to play the way the mod wants me to play. I want to play MY way. Just add in newer enemies or biome(s) that provide these debuffs and new obstacles to overcome (which is why I have fun with the game itself to begin with).

Modifying the vanilla game's mechanics to suit YOUR wants/needs is an insult to the game developers themselves. THEY will fix what needs to be fixed (some others at the request of the community). This is THE core contrast between other mod devs and game devs themselves, and Drew.

If the criticism is too much for you to handle, take it with a grain of salt.
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Drew doesn't like it when other people (mods) beat his bosses. He doesn't like it when his bosses are exploited and destroyed in less than 10 minutes. Before DoG received the buffs that turned him into the beast that he is now, it still took me 4hrs to beat him using mounts, RoD, and other weapons and accessories, and that was after dying 10 different times and proper preparations. I had to exploit an item that revived me every minute from another mod. The accessory was from Thorium to be exact and is dropped by Coznix.

few thithings from this I want to address/respond to~
1.just because someone makes videos about terraria doesn't mean they are the best at the game it just means that they enjoy making videos about a game that they enjoy so terraria youtubers complaining about a boss is no different than anyone else finding it difficult, they aren't gods. as for you having difficulties with pre buff DoG-10 tries isn't that much in all honesty
2.there are several items in the game that can be obtained at various times that will shred balance to pieces, the devs clearly aren't going to fix them anytime soon because they've been around for ages such as the daedulus being usable all the way up to ml in vanilla or the reaver shark allowing you to collect molten before any bosses have been downed etc. etc.
3.you yourself call it godly gear, do you expect it to be an easy thing to collect, they're meant to be difficult and grindy-one of the mods key influences/inspirations was avalon which you may know has alot of grinding in it for powerful gear and this reflects that. unless your referring to darksun frags which are actual hell
4. the mod is meant to be a far cry from the standard vanilla experience unlike something like thorium that stays very close to vanilla in terms of boss difficulty and the like, the mod was made by someone who was bored of the vanilla experience and people play mods for the most part are bored of vanilla so why would the mod creator make it to be exactly like it? Imo it can stray a bit too far at times but it rarely ruins the whole experience-I for one agree with you on stuff like acid rain for example it doesn't help that rain for whatever reason happens every 2nd day for whatever dumb reason
5.as for you wanting to play your own way? you actually have the ability as a human being to have free will and pick the mods you like and play to your liking. If the mod isn't for you thats fine, we aren't forcing you to play it. ofc this can be used to deflect literally any criticism imaginable but with such a wide variety of mods not every single one will cater to every persons liking

the responses are a bit out of order and can get rambly but I'm sure you can see what parts refer to which parts of your comment
tl:dr:
youtubers aren't gods they aren't the be all and end all of gaming mastery
vanilla isn't some holy balanced well oiled machine either (doesn't mean we can slack off ofc but you are saying that its an insult to balance stuff for them and the mod)
godly gear should be hard to obtain its like that for a reason except for one exception being darksun frags jesus christ ;-;
the mod is intended to be harder or atleast different to vanilla-people play mods to get away from vanilla why would you want more of what you don't want
not every single mod will cater to every single person in regards to stuff

honestly I feel it'd be best if everyone were to move this to PMs or something, it's kinda flooding the thread with people just repeating the same thing on both sides and its going nowhere

 

[Kefke]

download that mod and try it out, thats luiafk's correct?

Hilarious...

To be honest, I actually figured it was something like that (though I personally feel people who make such mods should be blacklisted), but it still illustrates the concept well enough. Anyone could come along and make a mod specifically to break yours, so why try to balance for it?

 

[Poly]

Hilarious...

To be honest, I actually figured it was something like that (though I personally feel people who make such mods should be blacklisted), but it still illustrates the concept well enough. Anyone could come along and make a mod specifically to break yours, so why try to balance for it?

this is true, drew says that the mod is balanced around itself and is intended to be played alone, with other big content mods I mean yet makes changes to be played around other mods so idk-mind you I think any big content mod should be played on its own, otherwise things get too crowded and balance goes to hell

 

[Omegatron]

Hello mountain drew! U are awesome!um, could u possibly make a op endgame flail that has similar effects to the earth sword but acts similar to the seven seas devastaor please

 

[PowerOfRod]

Uh, hey Mountain Drew, In-case you didn't know, There is a mod, (I forgot the name) that ads a potion that toggles the rain. So we can kinda use it to bypass the acid rain. are you pissed about this?

 

[orangepecan]

Hilarious...

To be honest, I actually figured it was something like that (though I personally feel people who make such mods should be blacklisted), but it still illustrates the concept well enough. Anyone could come along and make a mod specifically to break yours, so why try to balance for it?

Exactly! It really is a futile endeavor unfortunately. Anyone who wants to absolutely break the game can do so quite easily.

Uh, hey Mountain Drew, In-case you didn't know, There is a mod, (I forgot the name) that ads a potion that toggles the rain. So we can kinda use it to bypass the acid rain. are you pissed about this?

This was entirely unnecessary..

 

[Ziggums]

You guys seem to be completely ignoring the fact that the damage calculation nerfs only apply in Revengeance mode, a mode that's completely optional to the full enjoyment of the mod. If you dont want to deal with the nerfs and rebalances, you very well can; drew gave you that option very plainly, so dont call him out for "not budging" when he very clearly made it *optional*. Also, just know we're aware of calamity's "overpowered" nature and are adressing it, thank you.

 

[Burst]

download that mod and try it out, thats luiafk's correct?

It felt like a rain of Devourer of Gods.

 

[orangepecan]

You guys seem to be completely ignoring the fact that the damage calculation nerfs only apply in Revengeance mode, a mode that's completely optional to the full enjoyment of the mod. If you dont want to deal with the nerfs and rebalances, you very well can; drew gave you that option very plainly, so dont call him out for "not budging" when he very clearly made it *optional*. Also, just know we're aware of calamity's "overpowered" nature and are adressing it, thank you.

Well if you ask me, I don't think lowering the power of the currently available gear is the answer. I actually think that's a *positive* aspect of Calamity that sets it apart from other mods - immensely powerful gear to enable the ability to defeat some supremely challenging bosses. Nor do I think you should feel any obligation towards other mods to make them feel more useful by bringing your stuff in line with theirs.

Also, with respect to the rebalances, tweaks, etc. I thought that was applied in expert mode also? I remember Drew mentioning as such, but perhaps I am mistaken. If the changes are, in fact, exclusive to Revengeance mode, I have zero issues with that. You guys can and should do whatever you like with it because it is, as you say, 100% optional. I suppose Expert Mode is as well but.. it's not really quite the same thing.

 

[CrzyJoker]

Sorry for interrupting a valid discussion, I would just like to know if the revengeance mode applies to the world or to the character.

If character X used revengeance item in world x, is the world x in revengeance mode or the character?

 

[orangepecan]

Sorry for interrupting a valid discussion, I would just like to know if the revengeance mode applies to the world or to the character.

If character X used revengeance item in world x, is the world x in revengeance mode or the character?

The world. It requires expert mode.

 

[Luiafk]

Hilarious...

To be honest, I actually figured it was something like that (though I personally feel people who make such mods should be blacklisted)

lol .