Game Mechanics Changes and Buffs to DoT Debuffs

[SilverHexxitFights]

Actually, no, that's what Silver is referencing: they don't say so, but the DoT debuffs, as they are now, reduce non-natural regeneration (e.g. Band of Regen, Celestial Stone, Regen potion etc.) to 0 before applying their reduction to that non-natural regeneration (that's how DoT debuffs deal their damage ─ they reduce your health regeneration to negative).
So, basically, Bleeding in itself is one of the weakest Debuffs in the game. I'm not sure if it disables natural regeneration too though, but even if it does, it won't make it much more powerful due to how short these debuffs usually last ─ while still in combat, you don't have time to build up natural regeneration anyways.

EDIT: Upon checking, I found out that apparently, Bleeding only cancels natural regeneration, and not non-natural regeneration. Also, it is possible to increase non-natural regeneration after it's been set to 0 by a DoT debuff, however, you can only get slightly more than required to balance out Poisoned (Honey and Heart Lantern).

Would Palladium Armor's set bonus have an effect too? I believe the Werewolf buff also increases life regen.

 

[Niranufoti]

Would Palladium Armor's set bonus have an effect too? I believe the Werewolf buff also increases life regen.

Right, Palladium armor is applied last, so that could cancel out something too. I can't recall seeing anything about Werewolf when checking the Health regeneration function yesterday, so I'd assume the werewolf buff applies its bonus beforehand, thus being nullified by any DoT debuffs.

 

[TMB50]

That DPS increase wouldn´t likely be enough to keep DOT debuffs able to be truly considered to be a factor in overall DPS, specially in Hardmode, due to the high health.
Another problem is that Venom and Poisoned´s crit nullifying property only works on players.
The former could be fixed by making them work on a percentage of the player´s damage, meaning that DoT would be more powerful if used with weapons that deal a high damage per hit, which would both make Cursed Flames work the opposite of Ichor in that it would work better with weapons that shoot slowly, but deal a lot of damage per hit instead of working better with weapons that fire quickly, which tend to deal a relatively low amount of damage per hit, would allow them to scale with the player and would compensate for debuff-inflicting weapons´ general slowness, wit the only real problem I can find being debuff-inflicting ammo.

 

[SzGamer227]

That DPS increase wouldn´t likely be enough to keep DOT debuffs able to be truly considered to be a factor in overall DPS, specially in Hardmode, due to the high health.

Probably, but what can you do? :l I don't think the devs are going to add a complicated balancing mechanic for something as basic as a DoT effect.

Another problem is that Venom and Poisoned´s crit nullifying property only works on players.

A few possible extra effects inflicted on players who have these DoT debuffs.

They deal extra damage to enemies, but provide debilitating effects to players to balance it out.

 

[Nobody Important]

Finally, DoT effects that would be viable later in the game.

 

[aldgjjdbg]

This is just a new rearrangement of the amount of DPS that various damage-over-time debuffs deal. I invented it in about 5 seconds, so it essentially came straight out of my crapper, but it doesn't seem to have anything wrong with it that I can see. It's all buffs for the most part, but it also gives different amounts of DPS when inflicted on players and enemies. Why? Because even 6 DPS is not getting you anywhere fast when enemies all have over 200 health in Hardmode.



Anyways, here it is:

Bleeding
Cancels healing.
2 DPS vs. enemies.
* This is so it can be used as a PvE debuff.

Spoiler: Items which might be able to inflict a PvE Bleeding Debuff:

These are what I've decided to be the best candidates:

Bloody Machete

Katana

Vilethorn

Ball O' Hurt

War Axe of the Night

The Rotted Fork

Blood Lust Cluster

The Meatball

Muramasa

Blue Mooon

Dao of Pow

Nettle Burst

Moon Charm (Werewolf Buff) - Melee attacks would inflict Bleeding.

Poisoned
2 DPS vs. player.
4 DPS vs. enemies.
* Same DPS vs player, but it's now more effective against enemies.

On Fire!
4 DPS vs. player.
6 DPS vs. enemy.
* Same DPS vs player, but it's now more effective against enemies.

Frostburn
5 DPS vs. player.
8 DPS vs. enemy.
* More effective against enemies. Less damaging vs player.

Cursed Inferno
5 DPS vs. player.
10 DPS vs. enemy.
* It really needs a major buff to put it on par with Ichor.

Venom
6 DPS vs. player.
12 DPS vs. enemy.
* This could also use a buff. 6 DPS is hardly useful since everything is immune to Venom. Same DPS vs player.


Possible Bonus Effects

A few possible extra effects inflicted on players who have these DoT debuffs.

Bleeding
-5% Melee and movement speed.

Poisoned
*Reduces base critical strike change to 0%.

On Fire!
+10% movement speed.
*Player speeds up faster and slows down more slowly.

Frostburn
-10% movement speed.
*Player speeds up more slowly and slows down faster.

Cursed Inferno
+10% movement speed.
*Player speeds up faster and slows down more slowly.

Venom
-5% damage.
*Reduces base critical strike change to 0%.

I like this idea! Adding it to my 1.4 wishlist.
Although Shadowflame should have its DPS changed to -9 on enemies.

I hope you don't mind Sz, but I've brought back this formula from the original thread, albeit a few balancing changes. Put simply. I think this is too small of a buff.

What if enemy health influenced how much damage DoT does? I was thinking, as a quick example, that a formula could be:

[x^4 + 30x] (x) is the additional DPS, whereas the summary of the formula is the minimum health required for the additional DPS to take place. So, to list out what it would mean:

Using the [x^4 + 30x] and using values 1 - 18 for (x).

31hp = +1 DPS
76hp = +2
171hp = +3
376hp = +4
775hp = +5
1506hp = +6
2611hp = +7
4336hp = +8
6831hp = +9
10300hp = +10
14971hp = +11
21096hp = +12
28951hp = +13
38836hp = +14 (The current highest health is Duke Fishron, with 50000 health.)
51075hp = +15
66016hp = +16 (The Destroyer is unaffected by DoT)
84031hp = +17
105516hp = +18

Now to make tiered DoT's differ from each other, additional DPS for poison would be [0.5x], On Fire! would simply be [1], FrostBurn would be [1.5], Cursed flames would be [2.5] and Venom would be [2]. Reason why cursed flames is better than Venom is because I want it to be a fierce competitor with Ichor, and green flames are cool.

Then we can use the simple formula of xy + z to get the total DPS of a DoT. (x) is the multiplier displayed for each DoT on the above paragraph, (y) is the additional DPS and (z) is the base DPS.

To bring in a few examples, I'll list out a pre-HM enemy (Demon @ 120 health), a pre-HM boss (Queen bee @ 3400) and a HM enemy (Giant tortoise @ 400) and boss (Duke Fishron @ 50000).

Demon: 5 DPS (poison), 8 DPS (fire) and 11 DPS (frostburn)
Queen bee: 7.5 DPS (poison), 13 DPS (fire) and 18.5 DPS (frost)
Giant tortoise: 6 DPS (poison), 10DPS (fire), 14 DPS (frost), 20 DPS (venom) and 20 DPS (cursed)
Duke Fishron: 11 DPS (poison), 20DPS (fire), 29 DPS (frost), 40 DPS (venom) and 45 DPS (cursed)

I find these values appropriate because they give the possibility of hit-and-run (not cheesy, it's a valid tactic) as well as maintaining a use against bosses, where DPS usually sky-rockets because of how much times you are hitting. The anomaly, however, would be venom vs cursed. I think their base DPS should be switched around (cursed has 12, venom has 10), because cursed flame is a unique thing in a world whereas all worlds have access to venom.

Nice, but we could change the formula:
h = 2(2x^2.5) + 50 (rounded)
wheras h = hp of enemy and x = the extra DPS. Plugging in the numbers:
x = 1: 61
x = 2: 114
x = 3: 226
x = 4: 412
x = 5: 682
x = 6: 1047
x = 7: 2017
x = 8: 3098
x = 9: 3799
x = 10: 4628
I added 500 to 7 and 1000 to 8-10 for balance. It only goes up to 10.

The tiered DoTs now go as follows:
Bleeding: *0.5 if the bleeding changes are added
Poison: *0.8
On Fire!: *0.95
Frostburn: *1.4
Shadowflame: *1.5
Venom: *1.75
Cursed Inferno: *2.2
The additional DPS is multiplied by 1.25 in Hardmode.
Bleeding: *0.625 if the bleeding changes are added
Poison: *1
On Fire!: *1.1875
Frostburn: *1.75
Shadowflame: *1.875
Venom: *2.1875
Cursded Inferno: *2.75

The same examples:
Demon: 3 DPS (bleeding), 5.6 DPS (poison), 7.9 DPS (On Fire!), 10.8 DPS (Frostburn), 12 DPS (Shadowflame), 15.5 DPS (Venom), and 14.4 DPS (Cursed Inferno)
Queen Bee: 6 DPS (bleeding), 10.4 DPS (poison), 13.6 DPS (On Fire!), 19.2 DPS (Frostburn), 21 DPS (Shadowflame), 26 DPS (Venom), and 27.6 DPS (Cursed Inferno)
Giant Tortoise: 4.5 DPS (bleeding), 8 DPS (poison), 10.75 DPS (On Fire!), 15 DPS (Frostburn), 16.5 DPS (Shadowflame), 20.75 DPS (Venom), and 21 DPS (Cursed Inferno)
Duke Fishron: 8.25 DPS (bleeding), 14 DPS (poison), 17.875 DPS (On Fire!), 25.5 DPS (Frostburn), 27.75 DPS (Shadowflame), 33.875 DPS (Venom), and 37.5 DPS (Cursed Inferno)

Keep in mind that Demon and Queen Bee are using Pre-HM numbers and Tortoise and Fishron are using HM.