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cheese

SaltyBeggar

Skeletron
there are multiple ways to cheese in this game, so there's a list of cheeses I want to the developers to somehow get rid of them:
nurse cheese - you can kill every boss in the game without difficulty with this cheese. Maybe 7 minutes of a debuff which makes nurse healing impossible, to avoid noob people doing this cheese. "everyone must to be able to finish this game!", with some ppl finishing without deserving, without using skill.
martian saucer cheese - martian saucer's attacks need to pierce as many blocks as they need to reach the player, to avoid this cheese.
slime mount cheese - this is a game design failure which makes you invincible, it just doesn't make you invincible with Wall Of Flesh and Moon Lord. Doing the slime mount has no invincibility frames after jumping above an enemy fix this cheese.
tell below in the replies about other cheeses that exist in this game
 

Sora_92

Terrarian
I think they said something about the Nurse will be changed some way in the update, but
to be honest, I don't find it a bad thing to be able to use her to save you. I think the game is meant to be fun, and not everyone is that super skillful. I don't think there's need of elitism or anything based on whether you can defeat moon lord (or any other bosses) without using the nurse or anything. No one is obliged to use her, but why take the possiblity from people who are less skillful fighting bosses?

As for the saucer, I think it's fine that its deathray can't pass through solid blocks (same goes for the Moon Lord). saucers are super annoying already anyway. they spawn very early in martian madness, it takes lots of time to kill them - while they're doing very high dmg if they hit you, and as soon as you kill one, a new one will emerge in like 5 seconds. you can't even really fight the martians walking around the place, because you just have to focus on fighting a new saucer all the time. Of course, saucers have cool drops, it's okay that the fight is difficult, but that they're so common and so tough the same time, makes martian madness a serious pain, especially in situations when you don't wanted to fight them. I was building something in the outer 1/3 of a world post-golem, and a random martian probe appeared and ran away before I could do anything, it took me more than an hour to get rid of the annoying aliens and be able to continue building the thing I was building.
 

>>Terrarian<<

Terrarian
😠Honestly, I must say here that this is the first suggestion that made me angry. Because there is no reason to take away from people the possibilities that the game gives.
If you think the game is better without it, then don't use it! But let the people who like it have a way to fight bosses or whatever else counting on these bugs.
 

Omega Derpling

Plantera
😠Honestly, I must say here that this is the first suggestion that made me angry. Because there is no reason to take away from people the possibilities that the game gives.
If you think the game is better without it, then don't use it! But let the people who like it have a way to fight bosses or whatever else counting on these bugs.
"Hey uh, we added a buffed last prism that deals seventy billion damage and costs no mana. "
"You can craft it from one dirt block by hand, so have fun!"

"If you don't like it, don't use it" has NEVER been a valid argument, and it's extremely easy to prove why.
Anyway, here's my opinion on the actual suggestion.
there are multiple ways to cheese in this game, so there's a list of cheeses I want to the developers to somehow get rid of them:
nurse cheese - you can kill every boss in the game without difficulty with this cheese. Maybe 7 minutes of a debuff which makes nurse healing impossible, to avoid noob people doing this cheese. "everyone must to be able to finish this game!", with some ppl finishing without deserving, without using skill.
martian saucer cheese - martian saucer's attacks need to pierce as many blocks as they need to reach the player, to avoid this cheese.
slime mount cheese - this is a game design failure which makes you invincible, it just doesn't make you invincible with Wall Of Flesh and Moon Lord. Doing the slime mount has no invincibility frames after jumping above an enemy fix this cheese.
tell below in the replies about other cheeses that exist in this game
Nurse Cheese: They're making the nurse useless against moon lord, so if you cheese any boss up to that point you likely won't have the skills necessary to defeat him.

Martian Saucer Cheese: I actually really want this to be fixed. The Martian Saucer is one of those bosses who has their difficulty bloated out of proportion, and it's entirely because people simply have cheesed it for so long that they just don't know how to fight it. Also fix the hitbox in the second phase because that thing is super annoying to hit.

Slime Mount Cheese: See Nurse Cheese.

Edit: Actually, they should just make the nurse unable to heal you with potion sickness, and also apply potion sickness for 1 minute. If you need the nurse multiple times in one minute it's pretty obvious what you're doing anyway.
 
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Omega Derpling

Plantera
As for the saucer, I think it's fine that its deathray can't pass through solid blocks (same goes for the Moon Lord). saucers are super annoying already anyway. they spawn very early in martian madness, it takes lots of time to kill them - while they're doing very high dmg if they hit you, and as soon as you kill one, a new one will emerge in like 5 seconds. you can't even really fight the martians walking around the place, because you just have to focus on fighting a new saucer all the time. Of course, saucers have cool drops, it's okay that the fight is difficult, but that they're so common and so tough the same time, makes martian madness a serious pain, especially in situations when you don't wanted to fight them. I was building something in the outer 1/3 of a world post-golem, and a random martian probe appeared and ran away before I could do anything, it took me more than an hour to get rid of the annoying aliens and be able to continue building the thing I was building.
The Deathray pattern is actually extremely easy to predict. He literally just goes to your right and sweeps left, then goes to your left and sweeps right, repeats until he's dead. The only actually difficult thing about this boss is that his hitbox is about the size of a demon eye for no apparent reason.
 

Pmuuhzedci Sycdan

Official Terrarian
The Deathray pattern is actually extremely easy to predict. He literally just goes to your right and sweeps left, then goes to your left and sweeps right, repeats until he's dead. The only actually difficult thing about this boss is that his hitbox is about the size of a demon eye for no apparent reason.
Whiiich Makes Fighting Him With A Solar Eruption Impossible If You're Cheesing Him. Oh The Irony. I'd Have To Concur That Martian Saucer Is Extremely Predictable.
slime mount cheese - this is a game design failure which makes you invincible, it just doesn't make you invincible with Wall Of Flesh and Moon Lord. Doing the slime mount has no invincibility frames after jumping above an enemy fix this cheese.
tell below in the replies about other cheeses that exist in this game
Actually, I Believe That The Slime Mount Invincibilty Window Exists So You Don't Take Damage From The Enemy You Just Pancaked. I Feel Like This One Is Like Target Dummies Being Teleportable And The Old Ones Army Ai Being So Stupid With Their Ghost Form That It's Basically Useless.
 

Omega Derpling

Plantera
So, explain it for me!
"Hey uh, we added a buffed last prism that deals seventy billion damage and costs no mana. "
"You can craft it from one dirt block by hand, so have fun!"
That should make it pretty clear. If you don't like the item you can get from the beginning of the game that lets you oneshot the dungeon guardian, then don't use it! Why worry about multiplayer or balance in the slightest?
 

Omega Derpling

Plantera
This is NOT an explanation.
My point is: Just because you don't have to use something doesn't mean balance should be completely disregarded. That's just silly and would give developers literally no reason to make games challenging. (like "You have 30,000 health at the start of the game and there are full restore health pickups every single two feet, every enemy does 1 damage. If you don't like it, just get hit over 25,000 times to make it harder! Why should I do my job?")

If you didn't get that explanation or the one before that, you probably aren't to be trusted when it comes to what's balanced.
 

>>Terrarian<<

Terrarian
My point is: Just because you don't have to use something doesn't mean balance should be completely disregarded. That's just silly and would give developers literally no reason to make games challenging. (like "You have 30,000 health at the start of the game and there are full restore health pickups every single two feet, every enemy does 1 damage. If you don't like it, just get hit over 25,000 times to make it harder! Why should I do my job?")

If you didn't get that explanation or the one before that, you probably aren't to be trusted when it comes to what's balanced.

I even understand your point of view but things are not quite as you say, you, for example, know that there is a bug in which you use platforms to enter the temple even before you have killed Plantera, but you can choose not to do that, to be honest and not unfair, and kill Plantera to get the key and open the temple, and then, even though you know the bug exists, it doesn't bother you or affect you, but instead at the same time it helps those who want to use it.

What happens is that you should be aware that this item, bug or whatever it is not used, will not cause problems, and besides, this is not a competition game.
 

Storm Diver

Skeletron Prime
and it's entirely because people simply have cheesed it for so long that they just don't know how to fight it. Also fix the hitbox in the second phase because that thing is super annoying to hit.
I am guilty of this, I cheesed it for so long that when I tried to fight it normally its deathray almost killed me. :dryadcry:
I would be fine if the beserked death ray passed through blocks as long as its damage was nerfed to say 180/250~ Because currently it does the same amount of damage on normal that the Moon Lord's deathray does on Expert.
 

Omega Derpling

Plantera
I even understand your point of view but things are not quite as you say, you, for example, know that there is a bug in which you use platforms to enter the temple even before you have killed Plantera, but you can choose not to do that, to be honest and not unfair, and kill Plantera to get the key and open the temple, and then, even though you know the bug exists, it doesn't bother you or affect you, but instead at the same time it helps those who want to use it.

What happens is that you should be aware that this item, bug or whatever it is not used, will not cause problems, and besides, this is not a competition game.
Temple cheese is not the same thing. You can't do anything with the loot found there except traps (which are in short supply anyways) until mid-hardmode, and even if you get in you have to avoid enemies that are far too strong to kill.

Also, just because it's not a competitive game...
"Hey uh, we added a buffed last prism that deals seventy billion damage and costs no mana. "
"You can craft it from one dirt block by hand, so have fun!"
^...doesn't mean THIS would be ok.^

Which is EXACTLY what your logic says, by the way.
 
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>>Terrarian<<

Terrarian
The temple was only an EXAMPLE.

And I'm pretty sure the Devs think like me and won't even waste time looking at this mediocre suggestion. They will not add or remove anything that has to do with these bugs because they are cool and even the game's creators must be enjoying the bugs.
 

Omega Derpling

Plantera
The temple was only an EXAMPLE.

And I'm pretty sure the Devs think like me and won't even waste time looking at this mediocre suggestion. They will not add or remove anything that has to do with these bugs because they are cool and even the game's creators must be enjoying the bugs.
Too bad Red himself already said that you won't be able to use the nurse during moon lord in 1.4 :naughty:

You really wish you hadn't said that now, huh?
Also, in case you don't believe me:
1576534058986.png
 
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Sora_92

Terrarian
Of course, multiplayer is different than single player, since some might want to use certain things while other won't, and thus some will gain access to certain things and defeat certain bosses easier.
My point of "if you don't like it, don't use it" is mostly for singleplayer.

But in multiplaer too, maybe it would be better to have some options like being able to disable using the nurse at certain times, etc. and the host can set those things at the start. Instead of entirelly removing something from the game.

On a side note, as for the Jungle temple, I never tried to hoik into there before, but one of my worlds generated with a temple without a door XD lol so I went there and looted the place right after Eoc (actually intended go in before, but EoC attacked me right after I got the full jungle armor XD). I had water bolt (lucky finding it around the dungeon's entrance) and a grappling hook, and lizhards aren't very impossible to fight even that early. they can't climb, so you can just shoot them from the celining XD lol, but flying snakes can be dangerous XD but there's really nothing valuable there for pre-hardmode (you couldn't use the traps either pre-skeletron). You can use solar tablets and fragments though to summon an eclipse really early in hardmode and might get some nice loot, like a moon stone. And you can summon an eclipse right after all 3 mech bosses down, to farm mothrons. that's a bit cheaty, but eclipses could happen anytime in hardmode anyway... so I dunno if it's that big of a cheat... XD
 

Omega Derpling

Plantera
Of course, multiplayer is different than single player, since some might want to use certain things while other won't, and thus some will gain access to certain things and defeat certain bosses easier.
My point of "if you don't like it, don't use it" is mostly for singleplayer.

But in multiplaer too, maybe it would be better to have some options like being able to disable using the nurse at certain times, etc. and the host can set those things at the start. Instead of entirelly removing something from the game.

On a side note, as for the Jungle temple, I never tried to hoik into there before, but one of my worlds generated with a temple without a door XD lol so I went there and looted the place right after Eoc (actually intended go in before, but EoC attacked me right after I got the full jungle armor XD). I had water bolt (lucky finding it around the dungeon's entrance) and a grappling hook, and lizhards aren't very impossible to fight even that early. they can't climb, so you can just shoot them from the celining XD lol, but flying snakes can be dangerous XD but there's really nothing valuable there for pre-hardmode (you couldn't use the traps either pre-skeletron). You can use solar tablets and fragments though to summon an eclipse really early in hardmode and might get some nice loot, like a moon stone. And you can summon an eclipse right after all 3 mech bosses down, to farm mothrons. that's a bit cheaty, but eclipses could happen anytime in hardmode anyway... so I dunno if it's that big of a cheat... XD
The temple being "only an example" was invalidated by them trying to use it to help their argument. Why would they bring it up if it wasn't meant to get a point across?
 

Gotcha!

Pumpking
"If you don't like it, don't use it" has NEVER been a valid argument, and it's extremely easy to prove why.
Nonsense.

Too bad Red himself already said that you won't be able to use the nurse during moon lord in 1.4 :naughty:
The only thing he said, to my knowledge, is what you quoted right there in that image. Which could just as well mean the Moon Lord will do more damage to the nurse, teleport her away, or something like that. I'd wait with jumping to conclusions before we know what the exact change will be.



Anyway, I'd have more to say, but I find the tone of the topic starter quite egotistical and rude, and it's not the first time either.
It's a shame you can't bring your point across in a more mature way. :indifferent:
 

Omega Derpling

Plantera
Nonsense.
Then why would anyone bother trying to balance things? I have never seen anyone who shares your opinion successfully answer this question.

Honestly, I think the best solution would be to make moon lord's attacks (honestly, the true eyes of cthulhu are the only ones who need this) just do less damage, while also just making the nurse completely unable to heal you while fighting him.
No one would be unhappy with that, right?
 
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