Class Ranking

[SOUR LEMON]

Pre EoC/ Goblin Army:

1. Summoner - This Class takes the number one spot because every aspect of the Class has been buffed. You now have the ability to summon up to three [3] Sentries pre-Hardmode [for 10 minutes], and four [4] Minions pre-Boss, depending on World Seed and difficulty setting.

Summoner is not that good pre boss, at least compared to the other classes, except maybe mage. Seeing as ranger and melee can get really good weapons in the first 15 minutes of the game (if they tried) while summoner needs flinx/finch, fur coat, and maybe a whip to be offensively viable at all.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Summoner is not that good pre boss, at least compared to the other classes, except maybe mage. Seeing as ranger and melee can get really good weapons in the first 15 minutes of the game (if they tried) while summoner needs flinx/finch, fur coat, and maybe a whip to be offensively viable at all.

...and what if Summoner Class decided to just use a Gun? You'd just be a better version of Ranger~ with Minions at that point.

...also, the proper order is to get Summoner Potions first [and build up your Fishing Power], before ever obtaining Flinx Gear. I know the updates have everyone confused about the Class as of late, but if you're not prepared to go after Vampire Frogs immediately after EoC [or 120 HP], you're doing it wrong.

...also, also~ a 15-minute time limit doesn't tell the whole story, because a Player can decide to work on building a Township for 60-minutes in the current State of the Game, and make more progress than a Player who jumps into the first Cave they find [Pylons]. If you're basing your opinions about Terraria on the prevailing narratives in these Forums, I'd recommend going elsewhere, the sources here aren't very reliable.

 

[SOUR LEMON]

...and what if Summoner Class decided to just use a Gun? You'd just be a better version of Ranger~ with Minions at that point.

...also, the proper order is to get Summoner Potions first [and build up your Fishing Power], before ever obtaining Flinx Gear. I know the updates have everyone confused about the Class as of late, but if you're not prepared to go after Vampire Frogs immediately after EoC [or 120 HP], you're doing it wrong.

...also, also~ a 15-minute time limit doesn't tell the whole story, because a Player can decide to work on building a Township for 60-minutes in the current State of the Game, and make more progress than a Player who jumps into the first Cave they find [Pylons]. If you're basing your opinions about Terraria on the prevailing narratives in these Forums, I'd recommend going elsewhere, the sources here aren't very reliable.

I was assuming we were doing just pure class, as these were segregated (lol), not mixed, rankings

I was saying that summoner takes a little bit of time to get to the point where they can compete with the other classes, and imo the pre-boss phase is about getting out of pre-boss phase itself completely so you can actually progress, as a dash and reliable evil ore\money source is probably what you want to get further into the game (I also don't like mining).

Also, what "prevailing narratives" are you talking about? Most of the things I see in the forums are questions and suggestions.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Also, what "prevailing narratives" are you talking about? Most of the things I see in the forums are questions and suggestions.

The concept of a "Pure Class" for example.

In a standard/ normal playthrough [especially with newer Players], nobody should be concerned with a "Pure" anything, because it's not in their best interest. There are clearly Weapons, Armors and Methods/ strategies to defeating certain Bosses and Events, that are much more effective than others, in that sense, a Player should be using whatever is the most effective strategy, not limiting themselves to any specific Weapon or Armor-set because "Prevailing Narrative" says so.

According to "Prevailing Narrative", Summoner Class has gaps in progression, because the distance between Class Specific upgrades is said to be farther than other Classes, but that simply isn't the case. There's no rulebook that says that Melee Class can't have a Bow, or that Mage can't use a Gun [both Classes should have a side-Weapon, like any other videogame, even Link has Bombs and a Bow]. Every Class should be using Minions, Mounts and Sentries, especially if we're trying to measure each Class by potential.

So again, if we're considering threat-level and potency, Summoner Class will likely-always have 1-2 more Minions than any others [pre-Boss]. Just that alone puts the Class a cut-above the rest.

 

[SOUR LEMON]

The concept of a "Pure Class" for example.

In a standard/ normal playthrough [especially with newer Players], nobody should be concerned with a "Pure" anything, because it's not in their best interest. There are clearly Weapons, Armors and Methods/ strategies to defeating certain Bosses and Events, that are much more effective than others, in that sense, a Player should be using whatever is the most effective strategy, not limiting themselves to any specific Weapon or Armor-set because "Prevailing Narrative" says so.

According to "Prevailing Narrative", Summoner Class has gaps in progression, because the distance between Class Specific upgrades is said to be farther than other Classes, but that simply isn't the case. There's no rulebook that says that Melee Class can't have a Bow, or that Mage can't use a Gun [both Classes should have a side-Weapon, like any other videogame, even Link has Bombs and a Bow]. Every Class should be using Minions, Mounts and Sentries, especially if we're trying to measure each Class by potential.

So again, if we're considering threat-level and potency, Summoner Class will likely-always have 1-2 more Minions than any others [pre-Boss]. Just that alone puts the Class a cut-above the rest.

But then that's not summoner anymore, it would be a hybrid between classes ! This is clearly meant to be separate class, not hybrid class, ranking ! Sheep mindset ! If you care so much about hybriding, then rank all of the hybrids with the regular pure classes ! It's like saying intelligence (the stat) is best because it pairs well with strength (the stat) when pure intelligence isn't as good, you are simply saying str\int is good, not pure intelligence in of itself!

Tl;dr: I TRIPLE DOG DARE you to rank the hybrids with the regular classes (not really I'm just ranting)

 

[DiamondFire🪓]

1: Summoner. Dps is absolutley insane and is just generally fun to play.
2: Mage. Can be pretty fun, and mana isn’t much of a problem, but weapons can be repetitive.
3: Ranged. I mean, kinda overrated. Hardest class IMO, and weapons can be boring.
4: Melee. Sitting in one place holding down attack should not be a class.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

But then that's not summoner anymore, it would be a hybrid between classes...I TRIPLE DOG DARE you to rank the hybrids with the regular classes (not really I'm just ranting)

There's a few problems with your assumptions~ that'll always bring the "Prevailing Narrative" into question.

1. If what you say is true, what exactly was Summoner Class [1.3.5] before the 1.4.1+ updates? The only Weapons Summoner specific then were Minions and Sentries.
   • I'm asking you this, because what I was describing to you earlier~ is nothing more than 1.3.5 Summoner Class, which was just considered "Summoner Class".
2. Is the Classic, Expert and Master Mode Starter Characters a different "Class" than Journey Mode Characters, that start with a Finch Staff?
   • What Class is the Player exactly when you first start the game?
   • Once I obtain a Summoner's Potion, and gain the ability to Summon two [2] Minions, am I Summoner Class now?
   • What if I obtain the Leather Whip in addition to having two [2] active Minions?
   • What if I defeat Queen Bee and use only her items, Bee Armor, Beenades, Bee Keeper, Bee's Knees, Hive pack, Hornet Staff?
3. Exactly how many pieces of Class specific equipment must one wear to officially be considered "Pure"?
   • Do the Class specific Emblems count toward being "Pure"?
   • What about Accessories? Does using an Accessory from a different Class make you a Hybrid?
   • Does using a Shield of Cthulhu or Squire's Shield make you a Hybrid?
   • What about a Ranger that has three [3] active Minions?
   • What about the DD2 Armor Sets, what are those considered?

The issue here is that the game itself never suggests or incentivizes the Player to develop any kind of "Pure" Class, what you're describing is "Player taste" and Player preference, which has to do with "playstyle". The reason this is bad and worth criticizing, is that Player taste~ has been trying to work itself into the game, and this does nothing but end up confusing newer Players [1.4.1+ Summoner Class], because the "Prevailing Narrative" isn't organic, it's a learned behavior.

This is why you'll have veterans complaining about getting Spawn Camped by the Solar Eclipse, but instead of using the tools already available to them [Knockback], they'd rather blame the Devs [artificial difficulty] or suggest that the game get some kind of major, mechanical/ system overhaul. The "Prevailing Narrative" warps Player's perspective of the game in a negative way, causing them to endure unnecessary hardships and self-inflicted difficulty, for no good reason.

 

[Stellar Mastodon 267]

Probably Melee, Summoner, Mage, Ranger because melee just has to coolest weapons, Valhalla Knight armor and rainbow staff is cracked, mage has the best visuals, and ranger has explosives.

 

[SOUR LEMON]

There's a few problems with your assumptions~ that'll always bring the "Prevailing Narrative" into question.

1. If what you say is true, what exactly was Summoner Class [1.3.5] before the 1.4.1+ updates? The only Weapons Summoner specific then were Minions and Sentries.
   • I'm asking you this, because what I was describing to you earlier~ is nothing more than 1.3.5 Summoner Class, which was just considered "Summoner Class".
2. Is the Classic, Expert and Master Mode Starter Characters a different "Class" than Journey Mode Characters, that start with a Finch Staff?
   • What Class is the Player exactly when you first start the game?
   • Once I obtain a Summoner's Potion, and gain the ability to Summon two [2] Minions, am I Summoner Class now?
   • What if I obtain the Leather Whip in addition to having two [2] active Minions?
   • What if I defeat Queen Bee and use only her items, Bee Armor, Beenades, Bee Keeper, Bee's Knees, Hive pack, Hornet Staff?
3. Exactly how many pieces of Class specific equipment must one wear to officially be considered "Pure"?
   • Do the Class specific Emblems count toward being "Pure"?
   • What about Accessories? Does using an Accessory from a different Class make you a Hybrid?
   • Does using a Shield of Cthulhu or Squire's Shield make you a Hybrid?
   • What about a Ranger that has three [3] active Minions?
   • What about the DD2 Armor Sets, what are those considered?

The issue here is that the game itself never suggests or incentivizes the Player to develop any kind of "Pure" Class, what you're describing is "Player taste" and Player preference, which has to do with "playstyle". The reason this is bad and worth criticizing, is that Player taste~ has been trying to work itself into the game, and this does nothing but end up confusing newer Players [1.4.1+ Summoner Class], because the "Prevailing Narrative" isn't organic, it's a learned behavior.

This is why you'll have veterans complaining about getting Spawn Camped by the Solar Eclipse, but instead of using the tools already available to them [Knockback], they'd rather blame the Devs [artificial difficulty] or suggest that the game get some kind of major, mechanical/ system overhaul. The "Prevailing Narrative" warps Player's perspective of the game in a negative way, causing them to endure unnecessary hardships and self-inflicted difficulty, for no good reason.

You talk as if you can't just switch classes. In the cases where being your pure class is inoptimal, instead of taking the advanced big brain move of mixing classes you could just switch classes entirely, which brings up the beginning question: which class should you switch to?

Also, the question is probably takes the "prevailing narrative" into account.

My definition of "pure class" is what your damage type is. For example, if you were using terra blade with spooky armor, you'd just be melee, but if you were using terra blade with raven staff and spooky armor, you'd be melee/summoner. Your entire build is based upon what kind of damage you output, after all.

Okay, so your first points are about why summoner are not bad. But summoner is not the best class for pre-boss. Ranger would be the best, as they get very powerful early game options that can breeze through eoc: the musket, the platinum/ gold/ demonite/ crimtane bow, the undertaker, poison darts, the list goes on. Journey summoners may start with finch, but do not even try to tell me that finch is better than musket. Sure, if your skilled enough, you could snapthorn and flinx, but that takes some dedication to do and rangers can be set for half phm with the same amount of skill. Sure, mixing in pre-boss is the most optimal, but most will probably end up leaning more towards ranger for pre-boss. Overall, the summoner class is not the best class for pre-boss, but it's not like it matters because the pre-boss phase is so short.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

You talk as if you can't just switch classes. In the cases where being your pure class is inoptimal, instead of taking the advanced big brain move of mixing classes you could just switch classes entirely, which brings up the beginning question: which class should you switch to?

...I assure you, I'm the last person who'd ever assert such a rigid opinion on the game, that's not at all supported by evidence. The new Load Out system is proof of that, where the Devs are practically telling you that it's okay to swap tactics and strategies, so I'd never claim such a thing.

Also, in my experience, switching Classes isn't always necessary [that's an overreaction to the point], oftentimes it's best to just have some of the features of a specific Class available to you in certain circumstances. For example:

• A Summoner should always have some kind of Knockback and 'Crit' option, as these are some of its glaring weaknesses.
• A Mage should always have a Projectile/ Ranged option~ that doesn't require any Mana to use, as running out of Mana is a glaring weakness.
• Melee Class should always have a Ranged option, as range is where this Class often struggles.
• Ranger is probably the most "complete" Class in the game [it doesn't lack anything], the only weakness is running out of ammunition [which will probably never happen].
• Every Class will benefit from using Minions and Sentries.

None of the above suggests a Hybrid Build or requires the Player to switch Classes.

My definition of "pure class" is what your damage type is. For example, if you were using terra blade with spooky armor, you'd just be melee, but if you were using terra blade with raven staff and spooky armor, you'd be melee/summoner. Your entire build is based upon what kind of damage you output, after all.

That's a good measuring stick [and likely the best defense I've heard], but I still have to ask, what would you consider 1.3.5 Summoner Class to be?

The point is, no matter how good of a case you make, Summoner Class was still simply considered 'Summoner Class', even when it only had mixed damage-types. You'd have to explain what exactly happened between 1.3.5 and 1.4.4.9, that justifies a definition change on how a Player's Class is decided, and why anyone should accept it as standard. In fact, I'd argue that anyone attempting to play as a "Pure Summoner" that doesn't have a good understanding of the game as a whole, is asking for trouble.

Okay, so your first points are about why summoner are not bad. But summoner is not the best class for pre-boss. Ranger would be the best, as they get very powerful early game options that can breeze through eoc: the musket, the platinum/ gold/ demonite/ crimtane bow, the undertaker, poison darts, the list goes on. Journey summoners may start with finch, but do not even try to tell me that finch is better than musket. Sure, if your skilled enough, you could snapthorn and flinx, but that takes some dedication to do and rangers can be set for half phm with the same amount of skill. Sure, mixing in pre-boss is the most optimal, but most will probably end up leaning more towards ranger for pre-boss. Overall, the summoner class is not the best class for pre-boss, but it's not like it matters because the pre-boss phase is so short.

So, you're not wrong, but... if you're playing Summoner properly, you'll be the more powerful Class by "occupational proxy".

• Better Fishing Gear and Tools [+Ocean Gear].
• Likely better NPC Happiness and Pylon Network.
• Rapid access to both Ocean Biomes.
• One [1] to two [2] more Minions than any other Class.
• Access to more Food, Buffs and Potions than other Classes.
• More completed side content [Sentries, Classless DPS Items].
• Extremely high survivability and Gold [Money].

...point is, if you're progressing properly, and not skipping any steps, the other Classes don't even come close. They'd literally have to copy your slower, but intentional progression path just to keep up, because the game doesn't really encourage the other Classes to engage in Township, you'll find drops and upgrades by simply exploring and killing Bosses; two different playstyles.

 

[SOUR LEMON]

...I assure you, I'm the last person who'd ever assert such a rigid opinion on the game, that's not at all supported by evidence. The new Load Out system is proof of that, where the Devs are practically telling you that it's okay to swap tactics and strategies, so I'd never claim such a thing.

Also, in my experience, switching Classes isn't always necessary [that's an overreaction to the point], oftentimes it's best to just have some of the features of a specific Class available to you in certain circumstances. For example:

• A Summoner should always have some kind of Knockback and 'Crit' option, as these are some of its glaring weaknesses.
• A Mage should always have a Projectile/ Ranged option~ that doesn't require any Mana to use, as running out of Mana is a glaring weakness.
• Melee Class should always have a Ranged option, as range is where this Class often struggles.
• Ranger is probably the most "complete" Class in the game [it doesn't lack anything], the only weakness is running out of ammunition [which will probably never happen].
• Every Class will benefit from using Minions and Sentries.

None of the above suggests a Hybrid Build or requires the Player to switch Classes.


That's a good measuring stick [and likely the best defense I've heard], but I still have to ask, what would you consider 1.3.5 Summoner Class to be?

The point is, no matter how good of a case you make, Summoner Class was still simply considered 'Summoner Class', even when it only had mixed damage-types. You'd have to explain what exactly happened between 1.3.5 and 1.4.4.9, that justifies a definition change on how a Player's Class is decided, and why anyone should accept it as standard. In fact, I'd argue that anyone attempting to play as a "Pure Summoner" that doesn't have a good understanding of the game as a whole, is asking for trouble.


So, you're not wrong, but... if you're playing Summoner properly, you'll be the more powerful Class by "occupational proxy".

• Better Fishing Gear and Tools [+Ocean Gear].
• Likely better NPC Happiness and Pylon Network.
• Rapid access to both Ocean Biomes.
• One [1] to two [2] more Minions than any other Class.
• Access to more Food, Buffs and Potions than other Classes.
• More completed side content [Sentries, Classless DPS Items].
• Extremely high survivability and Gold [Money].

...point is, if you're progressing properly, and not skipping any steps, the other Classes don't even come close. They'd literally have to copy your slower, but intentional progression path just to keep up, because the game doesn't really encourage the other Classes to engage in Township, you'll find drops and upgrades by simply exploring and killing Bosses; two different playstyles.

For me, summoner was always meant to be just a support class in 1.3. I think the devs didn't know whether they should make summoner a viable playstyle, and then they just ended up making the half-baked abomination that is 1.3 summoner.

The last point still stands for the rest of the game, but I'm talking about pre-boss here. In pre-boss, the amount of setup summoner needs to compete is not worth it when you can just switch to a different class, especially since the same amount of setup could get any other class further than summoner could in pre-boss.

 

[chewythebigblackdog]

In terms of the pre-boss discussion, I'd say summoner is quite powerful pre-boss. If you are fully kitted out (flinx coat, flinx staff, snapthorn) you are probably the strongest pre-boss setup (and that's not even including hybrid summoner or minion mixing strats with vampire frog and/or slime, which make the class even better). However, you need to put in a lot of effort to get that setup, so I'd give the edge to ranged which has to put in less effort to get almost as powerful.

My pre-boss (pure) class ranking:
1. Ranged - where do I even start here? Ranged has so many easy to get, powerful options at a stage of the game where other classes are lucky to have one. Gold/Platinum/Demon/Tendon bow (especially w/ jester's arrows), musket/undertaker, boomstick, GRENADES, spiky balls (try these on eater of worlds if you haven't already).
2. Summoner - like I mentioned, snapthorn + flinx staff is really good, and worth the effort it takes to obtain the full setup. Starting out is a little rough though.
3. Melee - Melee has some decent options (starfury, ice blade, blade of grass, thorn chakram, amazon) but has a lower "ceiling" than summoner. If playing on easier difficulties where face tanking things is more effective I could see moving it higher (though since classed armour isn't really a thing pre-boss, why not just be unkillable while fighting at range instead of trying to use a close ranged weapon)
4. Mage - Limited options (gem staff, thunder zapper, wand of sparking/frosting, and vilethorn/crimson rod are the ONLY weapons available), and the options you do have aren't particularly great (plus all of them except vilethorn/crimson rod are super boring to use, which sucks for the class that usually has a ton of interesting weapons). I love playing mage, but pre-boss just doesn't feel great to play. Plus, the start is a bit rough (though not as bad as summoner's)

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

A popularity poll on Player's favorite Classes taken on November 01, 2020.

For me, summoner was always meant to be just a support class in 1.3. I think the devs didn't know whether they should make summoner a viable playstyle, and then they just ended up making the half-baked abomination that is 1.3 summoner.

I mean, that's certainly an opinion you can have, but the evidence just doesn't support it. Keep in mind, the Journey's End update wasn't officially released until May 16th, 2020 [four months prior]. Here's another less popular opinion poll on Player's favorite Classes in January of 2020 that's pretty much evenly split. People have always loved Summoner as thier Main to differing degrees~ throughout its lifetime; the 1.4.1 update was released on October 13th, 2020 [about a month prior] and only added a handful of Summoner-exclusive items [source].

It's important to note though, that Terraria was a somewhat "incomplete videogame overall"~ in many different aspects during 1.3.5, Summoner Class wasn't even close to being the biggest offender. Most would agree that 1.4 to 1.4.1 Summoner Class was likely at its best, especially according to the evidence that exists outside of this newer, "Prevailing Narrative". If anything, the Class just needed to be refined and balanced more, according to the general 1.4.1 opinion.

This new narrative about Summoner needing more help and more stuff is pretty bogus and is an example of the "never-ending cycle of Player greed" that I often bring up.

The last point still stands for the rest of the game, but I'm talking about pre-boss here. In pre-boss, the amount of setup summoner needs to compete is not worth it when you can just switch to a different class, especially since the same amount of setup could get any other class further than summoner could in pre-boss.

I still disagree, time-sink, effort and playstyle, don't account for Class potential [that's a meta discussion]. "I can beat the game faster than you as X-Class" is a preferred style of play, it has no reflection on whether or not said Player enjoyed their experience playing, or if the methods in which they used are universally applicable [i.e. speed-runners]. At its most basic level, Summoner Class will always be on top, because Minions [with improved AI], in 1.4.4.9, Minions are some of the best survivability tools available.

Also, like I said earlier, Township isn't just "Player expression" anymore, it counts toward Player progression now. Any time you take to set-up-shop pre-Hardmode, will pay dividends in early to mid-Hardmode, so it actually does become a "meta discussion" [and we already went over what that means, Food, Potions, Buffs, etc].

 

[SOUR LEMON]

A popularity poll on Player's favorite Classes taken on November 01, 2020.
View attachment 455670


I mean, that's certainly an opinion you can have, but the evidence just doesn't support it. Keep in mind, the Journey's End update wasn't officially released until May 16th, 2020 [four months prior]. Here's another less popular opinion poll on Player's favorite Classes in January of 2020 that's pretty much evenly split. People have always loved Summoner as thier Main to differing degrees~ throughout its lifetime; the 1.4.1 update was released on October 13th, 2020 [about a month prior] and only added a handful of Summoner-exclusive items [source].

It's important to note though, that Terraria was a somewhat "incomplete videogame overall"~ in many different aspects during 1.3.5, Summoner Class wasn't even close to being the biggest offender. Most would agree that 1.4 to 1.4.1 Summoner Class was likely at its best, especially according to the evidence that exists outside of this newer, "Prevailing Narrative". If anything, the Class just needed to be refined and balanced more, according to the general 1.4.1 opinion.

This new narrative about Summoner needing more help and more stuff is pretty bogus and is an example of the "never-ending cycle of Player greed" that I often bring up.


I still disagree, time-sink, effort and playstyle, don't account for Class potential [that's a meta discussion]. "I can beat the game faster than you as X-Class" is a preferred style of play, it has no reflection on whether or not said Player enjoyed their experience playing, or if the methods in which they used are universally applicable [i.e. speed-runners]. At its most basic level, Summoner Class will always be on top, because Minions [with improved AI], in 1.4.4.9, Minions are some of the best survivability tools available.

Also, like I said earlier, Township isn't just "Player expression" anymore, it counts toward Player progression now. Any time you take to set-up-shop pre-Hardmode, will pay dividends in early to mid-Hardmode, so it actually does become a "meta discussion" [and we already went over what that means, Food, Potions, Buffs, etc].

I don’t feel like arguing the same point over and over, so I’m just gonna say we have different standards and move on.