Console 1.3: A Progress Update on the Road to Certification

[ReusableLime20]

So we're about to start Q4 week 2.
Who knows how long cert will take.
Few usually refers to 3.
With a good chance it'll take longer.
How about we start a 1.3 pool to see who bets closest to the actual release?

I'm still going with spring 2018
Gotta bet long term

I'm betting within this quarter, aka Q4.

 

[Delete This Account]

So we're about to start Q4 week 2.
Who knows how long cert will take.
Few usually refers to 3.
With a good chance it'll take longer.
How about we start a 1.3 pool to see who bets closest to the actual release?

I'm still going with spring 2018
Gotta bet long term

Q4 2019
If you're gonna bet long term, you gotta actually go long.

 

[MBraderz]

The assertion is that by not saying ETA or any other wording of estimated it stopped being an estimate and became a promise of release.

There's no logic in that though, we can't assume that because a statement lacks a terminology it therefore becomes factual evidence of something else

Either way a delay is a delay, PW wouldn't delay without justifiable reason, at least they kept us informed rather than leaving it 12 months with no info at all

 

[Octaverei]

Who knows how long cert will take.

Cert should (I said should) take 3-4 weeks at most five. The question is when is it going to cert?

How about we start a 1.3 pool to see who bets closest to the actual release?

The pool would be more appropriate if it were directed as too when pipeworks submits it to cert. Anyways I'm betting late October 2017 for cert and mid November 2017 for release. If you saw pipework's gameplay of 1.3 you can see that the patch is basically done. The only thing that's really missing is splitscreen, which shouldn't take too long.

 

[Khaosbringer]

Going to try arguing both ways. Whether or not you feel this is directed at you is up to your own respective discretions.

People are going to disappointed when a delay is announced, of course they are. What's more, they have every reason to. Because disappointment is a neutral emotion: it's a response to a desire not being fulfilled. You can be disappointed when it rains on a field trip, when you miss your bus, or when a Terraria update is delayed. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with being disappointed, so telling people that "if they're disappointed, they're being entitled" is hogwash.

What is not a neutral emotion is indignation, and it depends on the context whether or not it's justified. Is it justified when it rains during a field trip? No, of course not, you can't blame the weather gods for that, because you don't have a right to good weather. Is it justified when your train arrives half an hour late? Yes, because you have a right to your train arriving on time and departing on time, as that's part of the service you are paying for. Is it justified when a release estimate isn't met? No, because you don't have a right to game developers correctly estimating when development is finished, the same way you don't have a right to meteorologists correctly predicting the weather or a company correctly estimating their annual profit (beforehand, of course): not just because you're not paying for them (that is not at all the argument I'm trying to make here), but because none of these three are in any way goals to be met, they're assumptions based on the current situation and what is still to happen.

The point is, indignation is justified when you are being treated unjustly. In the case of a release estimate being wrong, it isn't. Telling people that "if they're indignant, they're being entitled" does hold more value, but it's not the same thing as being disappointed. So don't be pissy at people for being disappointed. There's nothing wrong with that.

On the flip side of the coin, nobody here is being singled out for their stance towards Pipeworks. They're being singled out because their argumentation for their stance is being disagreed with. That literally is what civilised discussion is all about. Saying "People who are against Pipeworks are being run off" is simply twisting the reality, which is "People who are against Pipeworks, who are the minority, are providing arguments that the people who are in favour of Pipeworks, who are in the majority, are disagreeing with", in your favour. If you are not prepared to be disagreed with, then an internet forum is not the best place to hang around.

Finally, the "that is just your opinion" defence doesn't fly. Essentially what you're saying with that "you see it this way, I see it that way, and my way of seeing things is better than yours". If you're not open to other people's opinions, and dismiss arguments or facts as such, you literally can't be argued with. So don't do that.

This is the catch though isn't it. Your speech is bases on the original forum posts which give estimates, ignoring the fact that after these posts are released, the team moves to answering questions on social media. You dismiss hard statements in favor original posts, despite the social media statements being the only information people recieved for months. So, it does come down to opinion. Your opinion ignores the direct responses on social media for months, and only considers the forum posts to be an accurate source of information, while in my opinion the fact that the team was only answering questions on these alternate platforms for months after the forum posts, and answering in definitive states regarding time should not be ignored. As for folks not getting run off, there are several instances on this thread alone of folks telling people to leave if they don't agree with their opinions. One memorable one was "take moe, who i can only assume is your brother, and go home."

I personally couldn't care less what YouTube commenters think. A lack of moderation has made it one of the worst cesspools on the internet. I'd rather post videos with comments disabled and a link to a community forum than let people discuss things there.

Also, I really doubt you'll be done with the game or this forum after you get what you "paid for." I predict we'll be seeing you again when the next delayed update is announced. Not sure if I'm the one being referred to as running people off. If so I take it back, feel free to stick around. Just don't expect me to be open minded about your side of the issue when it's based on what I see as baseless entitlement.

That quote wasn't in the context of Terraria pushing out 1.3 early. It was about bigger developers under pressure from big publishers. Sometimes a dev studio has no choice about when the game is ready. When the publisher says you're out of time, produce something well, you do it.

This has been my stance at least.

@Khaosbringer has posted his evidence before where devs on twitter were asked when the update was coming and received a flat "Q2" as an answer. Other answers on social media were phrased the same. The assertion is that by not saying ETA or any other wording of estimated it stopped being an estimate and became a promise of release.

Simply pointing out that while i am one of the more vocal here on the forums, i am by no means the only one angry, or even the most angry. As for whether or not i will be purchasing more products from these teams.Guess you'll just have to wait and see then.

There's no logic in that though, we can't assume that because a statement lacks a terminology it therefore becomes factual evidence of something else

Either way a delay is a delay, PW wouldn't delay without justifiable reason, at least they kept us informed rather than leaving it 12 months with no info at all

It isn't based on lack of terminology. For several months we only recieved new information through social media. In many, many posts, right up till right before the first delay, people asked direct questions. When asked "when will it be released" The response was almost universally "q2" with no other timeing given or any delay expectations set. Folks are dismisive of these posts, despite the fact they are the only direct information recieved for months.

 

[Kazzymodus]

This is the catch though isn't it. Your speech is bases on the original forum posts which give estimates, ignoring the fact that after these posts are released, the team moves to answering questions on social media. You dismiss hard statements in favor original posts, despite the social media statements being the only information people recieved for months. So, it does come down to opinion. Your opinion ignores the direct responses on social media for months, and only considers the forum posts to be an accurate source of information, while in my opinion the fact that the team was only answering questions on these alternate platforms for months after the forum posts, and answering in definitive states regarding time should not be ignored. As for folks not getting run off, there are several instances on this thread alone of folks telling people to leave if they don't agree with their opinions. One memorable one was "take moe, who i can only assume is your brother, and go home."

I'm not ignoring them in the slightest, I'm merely taking the context that they were made in into account. As for people being run off, 'several instances' (only once in this thread, by my count, which also was addressed by the staff) is not a lot next to the amount of replies that were respectful, or the amount of 'negative' posts that weren't answered at all (in this 485 post counting thread), so I'll argue that once again this is a case of selection bias.

I don't own a console, so when Console 1.3 comes out doesn't affect me in the slightest. What I'm trying to do is clear up misconceptions about how the game development industry works, because if I don't, I have a strong feeling these past few months are going to rinse and repeat when the next estimate pops along and gets 'delayed' (as an example of such a misconception). Like I said, being disappointed is completely fine, and I have no illusion I can, or in any way or form should, stop people from feeling that way. What I do believe I can do is stop people from feeling 'cheated' in the future because they misapprehended something in the present. I most certainly do not think you (or anyone else) are against Pipeworks for the sake of being against Pipeworks, so if I can help you understand why Pipeworks does what they do (and why they're not doing what you think they're doing), then that'd be my pleasure.

 

[Tunnel King]

I'm just going to throw this out, it's not directed at any specific person:

The thread is sort of being dominated by a relatively few people repeatedly arguing over the same points, on all sides. I'm sensing some growing frustration from some of you.

People with strongly-held opinions are unlikely to be swayed by reason or rationale. Where I come from, people might say it's "like arguing with a fence post." This applies to all sides of this 'discussion'. There's a lot of effort being expended in this with no apparent end or resolution in sight.

Perhaps it's better if some of you would just 'agree to disagree' and move on. Just a suggestion.

 

[Khaosbringer]

I'm not ignoring them in the slightest, I'm merely taking the context that they were made in into account. As for people being run off, 'several instances' (only once in this thread, by my count, which also was addressed by the staff) is not a lot next to the amount of replies that were respectful, or the amount of 'negative' posts that weren't answered at all (in this 485 post counting thread), so I'll argue that once again this is a case of selection bias.

I don't own a console, so when Console 1.3 comes out doesn't affect me in the slightest. What I'm trying to do is clear up misconceptions about how the game development industry works, because if I don't, I have a strong feeling these past few months are going to rinse and repeat when the next estimate pops along and gets 'delayed' (as an example of such a misconception). Like I said, being disappointed is completely fine, and I have no illusion I can, or in any way or form should, stop people from feeling that way. What I do believe I can do is stop people from feeling 'cheated' in the future because they misapprehended something in the present. I most certainly do not think you (or anyone else) are against Pipeworks for the sake of being against Pipeworks, so if I can help you understand why Pipeworks does what they do (and why they're not doing what you think they're doing), then that'd be my pleasure.

But your argument is based on the theory that forum posts trump community interaction through other media, regardless of when statements are made or in what context. Dismissing the concrete comments based on what you feel is the more valid statement. Thats when it moves from fact into opinion. As people not trying belittle or run others of, i provided a fee more examples. This is by no means a complete list. Got bored halfway through.

as to be expected, people come here to whine and complain...

boo, how dare you guys make sure the game is functioning properly before releasing this update!

obviously, the best choice is to release a broken mess, so these same people can complain that you should've delayed it to make sure it was working properly!

on a serious note, thanks for the news, it's nice to know the wait is almost over, atleast.

seeing these people so immensely upset over a relatively small delay to make sure a massive update and rebuilt-from-the-ground-up version of the game is working as smoothly as possible... it must be nice to have such a comfortable, problem-free life that your biggest complaint is that a game update isn't coming out fast enough.

calling me blind is like calling yourself reasonable.

it's a lie and a half.

if you hate them so much, leave... simple as that.

i suggest you put your big boy pants on and calm down.

Correct, we don't know what it's going to be like, HOW ABOUT YOU WAIT AND SEE? By the way, this is getting far out of hand, and I refuse to allow this thread to be filled with negative comments over positive ones, the poor COMMUNITY MANAGER put time into this thread that you're now ruining.

Take who I assume is your brother MoeHolyGhost with you.

Thank you for this post. It made me reassess what I've been doing. I thought I was better than this, but I've obviously been feeding the trolls a bit myself.


This response saddens me a bit. It's rather clear to me that some posters are here just to be a negative element. This community has always been free of the whiny entitlement I see in almost every other forum on the internet. To endorse the posting of such material just sets a bad precedent.

Since using the ignore function seems to be the only recourse left, I urge everyone to use it. Don't message or quote these posters any further. Don't message other posters to ignore them either, I'm worried the mods would claim we're witch hunting. I'm sure the mods can see how many people have put a user on ignore. Maybe if enough of us ignore them the mods can reassess what the community actually wants. If nothing else we can enact a sort of shadow ban and lessen their impact on this community by not engaging them.

EDIT: I've had some time to mull things over and calm down, and this part was uncalled for. I've since removed the people I was arguing with from my ignore list.

Here proto is literally telling the devs he doesn't feel folks should be allowed to express negative opinions.

To all the people bellyaching about the delays

Quit whining, these delays happen because the people at Re-Logic and Pipeworks Studio want to create a game that we all enjoy. They are doing it so we can be happy with their product. And don't say I don't get the frustration. I want the update to come out too, but I also want it to be amazing. In order to make it amazing, they have to work on it thoroughly. So give them some time to perfect it. Anybody with me on this one?

dude, they aren't being paid for this first of all,and second of all stop acting like a spoiled toddler, some of us actually respect that the devs take so long to make this big update, so if they put a lot of delays to make it just about perfect just so we don't have to deal with a terribly glitchy update.But just a normal update with hard to find (or encounter) bugs and glitches, you can wait another month, because almost all of us can.

 

[InstaFiz]

But your argument is based on the theory that forum posts trump community interaction through other media, regardless of when statements are made or in what context. Dismissing the concrete comments based on what you feel is the more valid statement. Thats when it moves from fact into opinion. As people not trying belittle or run others of, i provided a fee more examples. This is by no means a complete list. Got bored halfway through.









Here proto is literally telling the devs he doesn't feel folks should be allowed to express negative opinions.

Dude
The post above yours

 

[Kazzymodus]

But your argument is based on the theory that forum posts trump community interaction through other media, regardless of when statements are made or in what context. Dismissing the concrete comments based on what you feel is the more valid statement. Thats when it moves from fact into opinion. As people not trying belittle or run others of, i provided a fee more examples. This is by no means a complete list. Got bored halfway through.









Here proto is literally telling the devs he doesn't feel folks should be allowed to express negative opinions.

That is not telling people to run off, that's telling people they're not allowed to be disappointed. The latter is telling someone it's wrong to do a certain thing, the former is actively telling people to leave the forums altogether. I don't agree with either of these opinions, but they're not the same one.

And yes, forum posts do trump community interactions through other media if the community interactions through other media are reiterations of the forum posts. That is exactly the context that I was talking about.

If a part of A is repeated in B, then the information not repeated (or explicitly/implicitly contradicted) doesn't suddenly become incorrect.

 

[ReusableLime20]

Might be time to consider locking this thread.

 

[The Solar God]

This thread was very active while I was gone. I focused on other stuff and forgot to check the forums for a few days. In my personal opinion we are at least 50% entitled to this update. I didn’t pay to get this update. The Xbox one edition is what actually got me into terraria thanks to a friend. I got the Xbox 360 edition free with gold and played that more because most of my friends still didn’t have an Xbox one yet. Pc has got the update which means it’s a very bad move to not give console players the update. Console players will feel left out and if you think about it some of us have waited since 1.3 came out on pc which may sound stupid but we and I really want this update and at this point I’ll take anything for this update. I feel for the people who payed just to get this update and for others who have wanted this from the beginning. It’s not fair at all to leave us out of this update and we definately should have this update.

 

[ReusableLime20]

This thread was very active while I was gone. I focused on other stuff and forgot to check the forums for a few days. In my personal opinion we are at least 50% entitled to this update. I didn’t pay to get this update. The Xbox one edition is what actually got me into terraria thanks to a friend. I got the Xbox 360 edition free with gold and played that more because most of my friends still didn’t have an Xbox one yet. Pc has got the update which means it’s a very bad move to not give console players the update. Console players will feel left out and if you think about it some of us have waited since 1.3 came out on pc which may sound stupid but we and I really want this update and at this point I’ll take anything for this update. I feel for the people who payed just to get this update and for others who have wanted this from the beginning. It’s not fair at all to leave us out of this update and we definately should have this update.

Do you think consoles might not get the update? There has been no mention of such an event.

 

[The Solar God]

Do you think consoles might not get the update? There has been no mention of such an event.

No but some people seem to be implying that we aren’t entitled to the update

 

[ReusableLime20]

No but some people seem to be implying that we aren’t entitled to the update

Technically, we are and we aren't. We are because they promised we would get it, and we aren't because Re-Logic never had to continue updating the game.

 

[Kazzymodus]

No but some people seem to be implying that we aren’t entitled to the update

Technically, you're not, but it would be an incredibly poor move on Re-Logic's side. I'd liken it to corporate suicide, really.

 

[ShadowOfDarkness]

3-4 new pages since yesterday, let's see what we have, oh look, I've been mentioned several times by members of the forum wanting to fight with me, even though they were told not to, let's get this cleared up...

This is the catch though isn't it. Your speech is bases on the original forum posts which give estimates, ignoring the fact that after these posts are released, the team moves to answering questions on social media. You dismiss hard statements in favor original posts, despite the social media statements being the only information people recieved for months. So, it does come down to opinion. Your opinion ignores the direct responses on social media for months, and only considers the forum posts to be an accurate source of information, while in my opinion the fact that the team was only answering questions on these alternate platforms for months after the forum posts, and answering in definitive states regarding time should not be ignored. As for folks not getting run off, there are several instances on this thread alone of folks telling people to leave if they don't agree with their opinions. One memorable one was "take moe, who i can only assume is your brother, and go home."

The Forum is a better source of information than other Social Medias, I doubt this forum has had any Account Hacks, but Twitter and YouTube have, however, YouTube is more secure than Twitter, therefore the chain is Forum>YouTube>Twitter, Although, the YouTube Channel sometimes gives more information, and you can see the people who work on the team, answering the questions. You can't see who's posting a Twitter Post, it will always be less secure than YouTube or The Forums. (The Forum Accounts will not get hacked, Twitter accounts can, and YouTube's is irrelevant, because if you see the people, you know it won't be hacked, because a hacker wouldn't be able to get new footage of these people, and get them to say something that is misleading.)

Yet, the paragraph before that quote is roughly "I will not allow this thread, which the Community Manager put time, effort, and heart into, get overrun by overly negative or hateful comments." We didn't need this.

It isn't based on lack of terminology. For several months we only recieved new information through social media. In many, many posts, right up till right before the first delay, people asked direct questions. When asked "when will it be released" The response was almost universally "q2" with no other timeing given or any delay expectations set. Folks are dismisive of these posts, despite the fact they are the only direct information recieved for months.

Furthermore, you once posted pictures of your "Proof" that you were "Promised a Q2 Release".... And your statement here is "The Team" posted this, the pictures you linked to showed the "TerrariaOfficial" Twitter Account, which likely a fairly large number of people have access to, and the posts that came from the account did not appear to be as well written as any representitive of these teams would normally write, in official capacity, which leads me to believe that possibly it was mis-worded, someone did not have the right to post it, or it was even possibly hacked.

If you want us to believe you, then please post pictures of an Official PipeWorks Account, or employee, posting what you say they did, an Official Date of Release.

And as for "Running people off of this thread" and "The Difference between dissappointment and other" I haven't seen you simply say "I'm dissappointed that it did not come out in Q2 like expected" You have, since your original post or two, quoted another person, or in some way added a specific person into your post, and direct anger and hate, (not dissappointment) towards another member of the forum, or the Dev Teams, which I cannot stand, I have been a Moderator on a Top Minecraft Server, and an Adminastrator on another Xenforo Forum, I understand how the staff must react to these posts, and I know what is acceptable and what isn't, even if I sometimes cross that line myself, I knew about it, and my anger likely overran my thoughts.

Don't tell me your 30+ posts on this thread of you fully arguing (not disagreeing) with other forum members equates to "Stating Dissappointment"

I'm not stating this to start a fight, I'm stating this to end one, finally. Until now, I was abiding by the request of the staff around 15 pages ago to stop fighting in the capacity I was, however, others have not.

TL;DR, Get real proof before spouting accusations of things, and then show it, that's how you prove things, arguing about it with your own words instead of proving it with evidence is how fights happen, as we've seen.

Actually, it's when people start telling us to leave is when they get "run off"
Take a stroll through the thread again, might jog some memories :^)

I would prefer not to live in the past, thanks for the offer though, but if you want to continue doing so, I believe around 15 pages ago mods told us to stop fighting, and I did, while others did not. Perhaps I do regret saying what I did, but since others clearly do not, by continuing to go on with the same old fighting, I do not feel I need to apologize for reacting to the constant poor behaviour of others.

 

[MoeHolyGhost]

Technically, you're not, but it would be an incredibly poor move on Re-Logic's side. I'd liken it to corporate suicide, really.

We were told, point blank, buy the new version to receive future updates.
We have the new version
We have no future updates
If you wanna be "technical" then "technically" we are entitled to said update. Even more so now that their gutting a huge chunk of the (outdated) console exclusives.

Might be time to consider locking this thread.

Like another one won't pop up?

Dude
The post above yours

..............

Furthermore, you once posted pictures of your "Proof" that you were "Promised a Q2 Release".... And your statement here is "The Team" posted this, the pictures you linked to showed the "TerrariaOfficial" Twitter Account, which likely a fairly large number of people have access to, and the posts that came from the account did not appear to be as well written as any representitive of these teams would normally write, in official capacity, which leads me to believe that possibly it was mis-worded, someone did not have the right to post it, or it was even possibly hacked.

Now that's the kind of mental gymnastics I'm talking about. This is what practice looks like.

or it was even possibly hacked.

Then wouldn't it be their responsibility to announce they were hacked?

 

[ShadowOfDarkness]

We were told, point blank, buy the new version to receive future updates.
We have the new version
We have no future updates
If you wanna be "technical" then "technically" we are entitled to said update. Even more so now that their gutting a huge chunk of the (outdated) console exclusives.

Since you can attest to this, why don't you finish reading what I posted and post some evidence of that, like I requested?

Now that's the kind of mental gymnastics I'm talking about. This is what practice looks like.

..............

Then wouldn't it be their responsibility to announce they were hacked?

Note, I said "Possibly" I'm not saying it's likely, though, more likely than on the forums or YouTube.

And if they're hacked, they don't have access to the account any more, they can't just say that too easily, and as previously mentioned, some people don't see all the different kinds of communication, and sometimes, it just isn't mentioned.

Markiplier got hacked, and when he got it back, he said nothing about it, which, considering the group that hacked him, and the circumstances, I, and many others, believed was the right thing to do, especially since people don't know what true hacking is, no need to concern everyone if only a few people saw it.

 

[MoeHolyGhost]

Since you can attest to this, why don't you finish reading what I posted and post some evidence of that, like I requested?

Literally the first thread introducing pipeworks where they announce they're officially abandoning last gen.