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Console 1.3 - An Update on Timing

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aydon

Terrarian
okay so i've recently started playing terraria on my ps4 again. it's been fun, until i beat every boss. now it's boring. so i'm glad that you're tryin to polish the update and make it work. but please hurry up, i love this game and i don't want to ever get bored of it. please hurry
 

YinaniY

Skeletron Prime
okay so i've recently started playing terraria on my ps4 again. it's been fun, until i beat every boss. now it's boring. so i'm glad that you're tryin to polish the update and make it work. but please hurry up, i love this game and i don't want to ever get bored of it. please hurry


You should mine away a whole world or something. The Missus and I have done two worlds. It's a good way to get resources and it is fun too, trust me.:pirateindifferent:
 
In any case, I'm quite excited for this rebuild myself, in addition to my excitement for 505's replacement. To not speak of them too harshly, I believe that any console dev who sees a need to change a game's experience when porting from PC to consoles (such as limiting control layouts, limiting character creation options, or redesigning the HUD beyond dilation and translation of its elements) has a perspective of console users that is 15 years out-of-date. That said, I am very excited to see Pipeworks making a port that seeks to treat all platforms equally.

505 is still publishing the ports of the PC version to all platforms, the developer Engine was just replaced by Pipeworks. As to how much blame for the changes can be laid at 505's feet, I can't say. I can understand the original motivations though. The PC user interface is not controller friendly, no matter how much work they've put into managing it. From the perspective of a controller user there are things I like about the current console ports that I wish were being kept. The tabbed organization of the crafting system was especially useful in my opinion. I'm all for a unified experience across every platform, but not every idea Engine had was a bad one.
 

Spectra

Skeletron Prime
505 is still publishing the ports of the PC version to all platforms, the developer Engine was just replaced by Pipeworks. As to how much blame for the changes can be laid at 505's feet, I can't say. I can understand the original motivations though. The PC user interface is not controller friendly, no matter how much work they've put into managing it. From the perspective of a controller user there are things I like about the current console ports that I wish were being kept. The tabbed organization of the crafting system was especially useful in my opinion. I'm all for a unified experience across every platform, but not every idea Engine had was a bad one.
Yes, I suppose the reasoning I gave associated what I disliked about the decisions of Engine to the publisher 505 themselves, which is hardly fair. Additionally, I mistakenly believed that 505 would no longer be publishing the game on consoles. Though as long as Engine is not developing it, then it doesn't really matter to me either way.

As to Engine's take on the crafting system, I will concede that the organization their solution provided did serve to organize crafting, which I do see as a plus, though its removal (which is, of course, an assumption I make based on what evidence I have seen so far of the update) isn't super problematic in my eyes, though I suppose time will tell.

I suppose in my criticism of 505, which should have been and will now be properly directed at Engine and Codeglue, were arbitrary changes made that did not serve any purpose in adjusting the experience to best suit controllers, nor were they made to accomodate their technical limitations. Such things as removal of custom input configuration or limiting character creation colors to a small fraction of what is available using the PC version's RGB slider. But, as you stated, not every idea that Engine had was bad, and I shouldn't be acting as such. It just baffles me that modern porting teams still see a need to arbitrarily remove customization features from games. Cutting down complexity for console ports has never been justifiable as far as I'm concerned, and yet even today, where the difference in the demographics between PC and console has never been as marginal as it is now, this archaic development practice is still being applied.
 
Yes, I suppose the reasoning I gave associated what I disliked about the decisions of Engine to the publisher 505 themselves, which is hardly fair. Additionally, I mistakenly believed that 505 would no longer be publishing the game on consoles. Though as long as Engine is not developing it, then it doesn't really matter to me either way.

As to Engine's take on the crafting system, I will concede that the organization their solution provided did serve to organize crafting, which I do see as a plus, though its removal (which is, of course, an assumption I make based on what evidence I have seen so far of the update) isn't super problematic in my eyes, though I suppose time will tell.

I suppose in my criticism of 505, which should have been and will now be properly directed at Engine and Codeglue, were arbitrary changes made that did not serve any purpose in adjusting the experience to best suit controllers, nor were they made to accomodate their technical limitations. Such things as removal of custom input configuration or limiting character creation colors to a small fraction of what is available using the PC version's RGB slider. But, as you stated, not every idea that Engine had was bad, and I shouldn't be acting as such. It just baffles me that modern porting teams still see a need to arbitrarily remove customization features from games. Cutting down complexity for console ports has never been justifiable as far as I'm concerned, and yet even today, where the difference in the demographics between PC and console has never been as marginal as it is now, this archaic development practice is still being applied.
I can tell you one very good reason to remove things, lack of RAM. Color customization is relatively minor, but full RGB does take more room than a limited color palette. The consoles being ported to were already years old with tiny amounts of ram. Playstation went from 512 MB in the PS3 to 8 GB in the PS4. That is 16 times the amount they had to work with in the original port. Terraria was already completely maxing out the available RAM space on the PS3/360 with the simplifications chosen. The decisions made by game developers are never malicious or meant to make people mad. Compromises have to be made, only question is what makes the least people mad.
 

MoeHolyGhost

Terrarian
This thread has more replies than every thread after it on the home page.

They know 1.3 on console is the most important topic on this site yet they actually wasted time updating a poker game.

Buckle up for a spring 2018 release guys, it's bound to be delayed in the next 6 weeks
 
This thread has more replies than every thread after it on the home page.

They know 1.3 on console is the most important topic on this site yet they actually wasted time updating a poker game.

Buckle up for a spring 2018 release guys, it's bound to be delayed in the next 6 weeks
This is gonna sound crazy, but are you aware companies can have enough people to work on more than a single thing at a time?
 

MoeHolyGhost

Terrarian
This is gonna sound crazy, but are you aware companies can have enough people to work on more than a single thing at a time?
Do you parrots really have nothing better to do than regurgitate the same :red: everytime your precious porters get called out?

The point still stands, it's the single most important thing people care about and we're getting little to no info on it. Hell the last video they put out was about yo-yo's, seriously?

Either give us a release date or give us any kind of progress update. We're in the middle of Q3 and the front is just cc and 1.3.6 spoilers? That's messed up no matter how you look at it.
 
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Do you parrots really have nothing better to do than regurgitate the same :red: everytime your precious porters get called out?

The point still stands, it's the single most important thing people care about and we're getting little to no info on it. Hell the last video they put out was about yo-yo's, seriously?

Either give us a release date or give us any kind of progress update. We're in the middle of Q3 and the front is just cc and 1.3.6 spoilers? That's messed up no matter how you look at it.
The single most important thing? This website isn't the Terraria Console Community. There's more than just consoles, regardless of the numbers. Most of those numbers have more to do with the reasons for loss of the older generation of consoles than any actual talk about the update. That's like saying the PC audience the console players owe everything to doesn't matter.

What more do you want? Week after week about how they are still polishing off bugs and getting it ready for submission to the platform holders? Maybe a detailed explanation of what programmatic errors they are working on so everyone can armchair quarterback their efforts to fix them? Making creative endeavors is a really complex process. The complexity is amplified with every other person added to the process.

We were told that it would come in Q3 which still has more than a month to go. It's not ready yet, and nothing has changed from the last time it was delayed that would do us any good to be told. You're not talking to a 2 man indie dev in his garage here that can say whatever they want on social media. Pipeworks is a large company made up of multiple teams. That makes doing public releases of information difficult and not worth doing over short periods of time. They do a livestream every week, and they tell us all the information they can that actually matters. You're expecting more involvement in the design process than you're entitled to.
 

Tunnel King

Terrarian
Administrator
Both Re-Logic and PipeWorks are working hard on the QA stage of Console 1.3 - where they test for, identify, and address bugs. There's very little that can shown for progress on that. PipeWorks has repeated every week during their livestream that they are still focusing on a Q3 release, and Re-Logic has echoed that, both here and on social media. If any of that changes, they will announce that as soon as they know. There's no reason to put on the front page "Still testing, guys!".

'Spring 2018' as a release is a wild and baseless speculation. We understand and share the frustration with the delays, but will not sacrifice the quality of the product you receive based on an arbitrary date or the number of posts on a thread.
 

MoeHolyGhost

Terrarian
'Spring 2018' as a release is a wild and baseless speculation. We understand and share the frustration with the delays, but will not sacrifice the quality of the product you receive based on an arbitrary date or the number of posts on a thread.

Wild and baseless?
What's wild is how :red: the updates end up being. What's baseless is expecting people to believe any amount of qa ever actually goes into these updates before they launch busted and unplayable.

What's the most common post when an update actually comes out?
"Is it playable or should I wait for a patch?" Qa must mean something completely different where I'm from.

But hey, 6 weeks left right?
Prove me wrong, put out the update on time-ish and have it be playable. Oh boy that'd really shut me up huh? I'd be so mad if that happened ;^)
 

Spectra

Skeletron Prime
I can tell you one very good reason to remove things, lack of RAM. Color customization is relatively minor, but full RGB does take more room than a limited color palette. The consoles being ported to were already years old with tiny amounts of ram. Playstation went from 512 MB in the PS3 to 8 GB in the PS4. That is 16 times the amount they had to work with in the original port. Terraria was already completely maxing out the available RAM space on the PS3/360 with the simplifications chosen. The decisions made by game developers are never malicious or meant to make people mad. Compromises have to be made, only question is what makes the least people mad.
You're absolutely right. I feel like a fool to have made statements that required someone to talk about RAM limitations with me. I must be letting my dislike of bad porting practices blind me to the differences between what is frivolous and what is vital.

Wild and baseless?
What's wild is how :red: the updates end up being. What's baseless is expecting people to believe any amount of qa ever actually goes into these updates before they launch busted and unplayable.

What's the most common post when an update actually comes out?
"Is it playable or should I wait for a patch?" Qa must mean something completely different where I'm from.

But hey, 6 weeks left right?
Prove me wrong, put out the update on time-ish and have it be playable. Oh boy that'd really shut me up huh? I'd be so mad if that happened ;^)
I cannot disagree that previous versions of console Terraria have not been the most stable. However, remember that this was the work of Engine. Rather than judging Pipeworks based on the mistakes of their predecessors, how about we first allow them to prove themselves by their own work.

Re-Logic would not have greenlighted a project as ambitious as a full re-write of the game's code if they did not trust that Pipeworks could create a better end result, after all.
 

Loki

Consigliere
Staff member
Re-Logic
Administrator
Given that the development team was changed out for this update... and the entire codebase redone... and that quite a bit of QA has gone on - even involving Re-Logic testers this time - I would say that this would be an example of "hey, maybe the past doesn't predict the future".

You know, because there were probably reasons behind all of those changes. ;)

"On time" is and will be "when it is done". Also worth considering that your primary complaints above have to do with quality and not to do with a launch date. Seems we are on the same page. :)

QA is never going to catch every single bug ever. Not one piece of software has ever launched bug free. Several million people will always find more than a QA team, and any of that will be hotfixed (just as it is on PC - even PC launch wound up at 1.3.0.7 before the team moved on to 1.3.1). That doesn't excuse some of those "issues" in the past, mind you, as some of those went well beyond that line... but as noted above, the past is the past and the present is not that.

All that said, I think everyone would love to see that last bit happen. So, let's just see how it all shakes out - I know we are looking forward to finding people pleasantly surprised. :)
 

MoeHolyGhost

Terrarian
Given that the development team was changed out for this update... and the entire codebase redone... and that quite a bit of QA has gone on - even involving Re-Logic testers this time - I would say that this would be an example of "hey, maybe the past doesn't predict the future".

You know, because there were probably reasons behind all of those changes. ;)

"On time" is and will be "when it is done". Also worth considering that your primary complaints above have to do with quality and not to do with a launch date. Seems we are on the same page. :)

QA is never going to catch every single bug ever. Not one piece of software has ever launched bug free. Several million people will always find more than a QA team, and any of that will be hotfixed (just as it is on PC - even PC launch wound up at 1.3.0.7 before the team moved on to 1.3.1). That doesn't excuse some of those "issues" in the past, mind you, as some of those went well beyond that line... but as noted above, the past is the past and the present is not that.

All that said, I think everyone would love to see that last bit happen. So, let's just see how it all shakes out - I know we are looking forward to finding people pleasantly surprised. :)
I'm willing to give you most of that. But on the subject of qa not catching every bug ever, it's hard not to catch all your world's being deleted, or the underworld on the surface and all your items in chests being replaced with pickaxes. (I've been lurking for years)

You're right that the past is the past. But hope has a bad habit of biting you in the :red:, so forgive me if I stay skeptical till the end. If it turns out all is well and y2k really doesn't happen, then I'll bake the humble pie myself.
 

Loki

Consigliere
Staff member
Re-Logic
Administrator
I'm willing to give you most of that. But on the subject of qa not catching every bug ever, it's hard not to catch all your world's being deleted, or the underworld on the surface and all your items in chests being replaced with pickaxes. (I've been lurking for years)

All being good reasons that changes needed to be made... and those changes are pretty wide-reaching. As I said in my response above, not excusing those times that it was clearly "over the line" - I vividly remember those same things, having been active in the community before, during, and after all of that.

On the worlds thing, I thought it was pretty cool for Pipeworks to actually ask for player files from the "wild" to test with to help be as sure as anyone can that existing worlds will have no issues. I cannot recall a developer on console doing that. Nothing ever guarantees anything in this crazy world, but it is nice to see that kind of step being undertaken (that and rewriting the entire codebase for an already-successful console game in its entirety).

You're right that the past is the past. But hope has a bad habit of biting you in the :red:, so forgive me if I stay skeptical till the end. If it turns out all is well and y2k really doesn't happen, then I'll bake the humble pie myself.

Totally understandable feelings there that come from the experiences you mentioned. All I can say with confidence is that everyone involved has and is doing all that they can to make this a polar opposite of those past issues - taking the time needed being just one of those. We have tried to be far more involved from our end as well to help catch things. As I said, some bugs always sneak through - but they need to be the "nuisance" category type bugs and not the kind of stuff you mentioned before. 100% with you there.

No humble pie needed - I am just going to hope for you to have an amazing time with the update when it comes and look forward to hearing your feedback. :)
 
I'm willing to give you most of that. But on the subject of qa not catching every bug ever, it's hard not to catch all your world's being deleted, or the underworld on the surface and all your items in chests being replaced with pickaxes. (I've been lurking for years)

The underworld on the surface sounds kinda cool actually.
 

Sherley SP

Terrarian
I stop playing for 10 days now. I finish all about a month ago. I try to keep my hype for 1.3 update by making large world with theme like Game of throne etc etc.. but feel like playing minecraft now lol and it's getting bored. keep spawning hardcode bosses also not helping. without new bosses Terraria only fun for 100 days (my opinion). this up coming 1.3 update will be the last update (if I'm not mistaken) so what next? I hope Terraria otherworld (Beta) will be out for console too.
*Still waiting 1.3
 

shadowwraith

Terrarian
okay so i've recently started playing terraria on my ps4 again. it's been fun, until i beat every boss. now it's boring. so i'm glad that you're tryin to polish the update and make it work. but please hurry up, i love this game and i don't want to ever get bored of it. please hurry

use the time to expand your storage areas (you will need it) and obtain any of the equipment items you've missed.
 
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