Copied message from In-depth tier list, for some information:
17 damage listed, ichor only, 10 enemy def: 17 + 5 - 0 = 22 damage
17 damage, Ichor, Betsy, Kaleidoscope, 1000 enemy def: 17 + 12.5 - 472.5 + 20 tag
= 1
17 damage, Ichor, Betsy, Kaleidoscope, 200 enemy def: 17 + 12.5 - 72,5 + 20 tag=
1
17 damage, Ichor, Betsy, Kaleidoscope, 100 enemy def: 17 + 12.5 - 22,5 + 20 tag
= 27
17 damage, Ichor, Betsy, Kaleidoscope, 75 enemy def: 17 + 12.5 - 10 + 20
= 39.5
17 damage, Ichor, Betsy, Kaleidoscope, 70 enemy def: 17 + 12.5 - 7.5 + 2
0 = 42
17 damage, Ichor, Betsy, Kaleidoscope, 10 enemy def: 17 + 5 - 0 + 20 =
42
17 damage, Ichor, Betsy, Spinal Tap,100 enemy def: 17 + 12,5 - 22,5 + 7
= 14
17 damage, Ichor, Betsy, Spinal Tap, 75 enemy def: 17 + 12.5 - 10 + 7
= 26.5
17 damage, Ichor, Betsy, Spinal Tap, 70 enemy def: 17 + 12.5 - 7.5 + 7
= 29
17 damage, Ichor, Betsy, Spinal Tap, 10 enemy def: 17 + 5 - 0 + 7
= 29
Seems that 42 dmg with kaleidoscope and 29 with the spinal tap is max for 17 listed
It is effectively capped at +22 damage (ichor and betsy, all def reduction avaliable). If the targets defence is 70 or less.
Real tests:
**Edit:
Shyguymask said: "Out of every "exploit" in mind, Blade Staff's 25 armor penetration bug is the smallest and least noticeable of them. Saying "Exploit" as a reason to indirectly nerf, improperly adjust the Blade Staff is poor reasoning. So many weapons in general including Sanguine Staff benefits from major "exploits" now, not just the Blade staff. None of these weapons were balanced around the "Exploits" given by whips alone. So what to take from this? Should we remove Whip Stacking as well?
No! Whip Stacking is like Wavedashing in Super Smash Bros Melee, it's a technique with a lot of depth that adds to the gameplay experience for experienced players willing to learn it. Blade Staff and Sanguine Staff SHOULD be about as powerful as each other, the entire point of "Balance" in video games including Terraria is to have options be about as powerful as eachother. Nerfing the Blade Staff with no compensations or other nerfs will
hurt the game as a whole, worsening the balance of the game. And the justification by Re-logic for it is disappointing at best. Contrary to what has been claimed, Sanguine Staff is if anything
easier to obtain than Blade Staff, and even though the statement is "Blade Staff was not balanced around exploit" , this can be said for not only Sanguine Staff, not only Summoner weapons as a whole, but weapons from another class (Melee specifically) as well."
And I completely agree. Focusing on exploits is not he best decision, it ruins regular balance. (which still has a number of questions as of 1.4.2)
So, my point is:
90% of players, who have bought Terraria, complete it, enjoy it. They don't even know about whip stacking etc. Like summons, some melee weapons etc. Only remaining 10%, on their 5th to 10th playthrough know about whip stacking or how to owerpower some weapons with that.
Let's imagine different weapons:
"Blade Staff was not balanced around exploit" = base damage reduced from 6 to 2, now recieves only a half of tag damage bonuses.
"Terra Blade was not balanced around exploit" = let's nerf it to oblivion. Use time increased from 14 to 28, damage decreased from 115 to 80. Cool sword. S+ tier sword.
" *every sword dependant on melee speed* was not balanced around exploit" = we introduce that every sword now gains only 10% melee speed bonus. And nothing to compensate that too.
As whip-stacking is also skill-dependant, we can say "Terraprisma was not balanced around exploit". Because there are skilled players who kill daytime EoL after Plantera of around Golem. (assuming it is designed to be at least on par with Stardust items and obtained using lunar items (to be compensated in difficulty and be about on par with ML))
**A secret weapon gets its nerf, damage decreased from 90 to 45**.
Now, 90% of players complete Terraria and question themselves, why all swords are so bad? Terra blade? The most disappointing game-iconic weapon ever. Why do all melee speed increasing accessories even exist with their 1/10 of efficiency? Why do two, (the same progression tier) summon weapons exist, but one is so underpowered? Why I tortured myself to obtain a secret weapon if it is twice as weak as the Dragon ,which I already have?
10% of fan players are confused too, because theit knowledge of the game is unappreciated.
+ There is also the Horsemans Blade. The weapon that relies on "tricks" to be viable at all. With decent statue mechanism it kills ML in 10 sec.
I'm genuinely interested how this weapon would correlate with this statement.
So I dont know if someone agrees, but it is even better to leave it as it is, because skill-dependant, almost unknown in general, feature does not hurt overall impression for the vast majority. Or yes, every "bugfix" (technically Blade Staff nerf/ no more whip stacking = weaker summon class) should be compensated.