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Degradation of "Terraria" combat: Homing weapons

Vazilin

Terrarian
As the title suggests, in this thread im going to talk about homing weapons and how they changed the face of Terraria combat. Suggestions, that don`t involve simplifying the game proccess are not popular here, unfortunately, but i can`t keep it in myself anymore.
I felt like the suggestion thread is the most appropriate place to post this, even though i don`t consider my post as the "classic" suggestion. Stop beating around the bush, let`s get straight to the topic.

P.S I apologise for spelling mistakes


Homing weapons - hugest downgrade in combat system "Terraria" have ever experienced since release. Fighting in Terraria never was a complex process, but homing weapons became the last nail in the coffin. You might like them or not, but you can`t deny this fact: They are too lazy, they change the gaming skills involved and most of them are incredebly overpowered.

Video

To try to convey to you the idea of what i mean, i made a video, demonstrating the whole power of homing weapons. It is maybe a little bit overdramatized, but this is basicaly how current situation with homing weapons looks like. Even, if some points aren't valid, i still tried to make video as entertaining, as possible.

Sorry for spelling mistakes




It doesn`t matter, how hardly i`m trying to convince you, there is still one undenieble argument, that i can`t counter -
"If you don`t like homing weapons - don`t use them"

You can use whatever you want, as long as it entertains you, im absolutely alright with that. What i don`t like, is the developers decision to add more and more game breaking homing weapons into the game. It seems for me, that most of their attention and efforts are directed towards homing weapons. And that scares me.

Don`t get me wrong, i`m not against homing weapons in general, i`m against overpowered homing wepons. Bee Gun, Spectre Staff, Possesed Hatched are the perfect examples of balanced homing weapons. Homing feature is already an adventage and should be prioritized over damage, fire rate etc.

Suggestions

1) Nerfing current homing weapons.

The most obvious and easiest way to balance out the homing weapons. It`s not necessarily needed to nerf damage or fire rate of the weapon to make it more balanced. Let`s take Typhoon for instance. Just triple the mana usage and BAM - it is not that attractive anymore, even though it`s still incredebly strong. Snowman Cannon - just make rockets more dangerous. If rockets would damage the player, the incredible versatility of cannon will be gone, but it still will be. That`s just a few examples.

2) Adding more one-sided weapons.

Current examples: Bubble Gun, Heat Ray, Rocket Launcher, Cursed Flames, Magical Harp, Shadowbeam Staff.

What i mean under "one-sided" weapons? Weapons, that aren´t good overall, but incredebly good for certain tasks/situations. Some of you may say - "This will just bring more useless weapons into the game, that noone will use". I will say - "It will force the players to extend their arsenal and choose certain weapons for different situations.".

3) Adding more weapons demanding skill/practice.

Current examples: Rainbow Rod (Magic Missle, Flame Lash), Sniper Riffle (with high velocity bullets).

This is kind of weapon, that feels "rough" at the beginning, but after some practice it`s very fun to use it. On my opinion, this is the key for a perfect weapon - practice. Practice should be rewarded. The more time player practice a certain weapon, the better his skills and damage output gets. It's always great for the more serious players, if they can get an extra edge out of being good, beyond grind. How i imagine/see weapons like this? One of the examples - weapons like Rainbow Rod, when efficiency depends on precise cursor movements: "Cutting" enemies with fast cursor twitching (Fruit Ninja), locking cursor on enemy to accumulate damage, drawing a beam, that does piercing damage to enemies (like beam from Rainbow Gun) etc. Or just a buffed version of Sniper Rifle, that uses an expensive ammunition and requires a long time to charge, but shoots a straight powerfull beam, that does incredible damage.




Very risky topic for the first suggestion, but this problem torture me since the last 1.2.4 update and now i`m very happy, that i finally shared my thoughts with community. Maybe i`m not alone, who feel the same? We will see..


Thanks for reading.
 

TheBeardedBastard

Official Terrarian
As the title suggests, in this thread im going to talk about homing weapons and how they changed the face of Terraria combat. Suggestions, that don`t involve simplifying the game proccess are not popular here, unfortunately, but i can`t keep it in myself anymore.
I felt like the suggestion thread is the most appropriate place to post this, even though i don`t consider my post as the "classic" suggestion. Stop beating around the bush, let`s get straight to the topic.

P.S I apologise for spelling mistakes


Homing weapons - hugest downgrade in combat system "Terraria" have ever experienced since release. Fighting in Terraria never was a complex process, but homing weapons became the last nail in the coffin. You might like them or not, but you can`t deny this fact: They are too lazy, they change the gaming skills involved and most of them are incredebly overpowered.

Video

To try to convey to you the idea of what i mean, i made a video, demonstrating the whole power of homing weapons. It is maybe a little bit overdramatized, but this is basicaly how current situation with homing weapons looks like. Even, if some points aren't valid, i still tried to make video as entertaining, as possible.

Sorry for spelling mistakes




It doesn`t matter, how hardly i`m trying to convince you, there is still one undenieble argument, that i can`t counter -
"If you don`t like homing weapons - don`t use them"

You can use whatever you want, as long as it entertains you, im absolutely alright with that. What i don`t like, is the developers decision to add more and more game breaking homing weapons into the game. It seems for me, that most of their attention and efforts are directed towards homing weapons. And that scares me.

Don`t get me wrong, i`m not against homing weapons in general, i`m against overpowered homing wepons. Bee Gun, Spectre Staff, Possesed Hatched are the perfect examples of balanced homing weapons. Homing feature is already an adventage and should be prioritized over damage, fire rate etc.

Suggestions

1) Nerfing current homing weapons.

The most obvious and easiest way to balance out the homing weapons. It`s not necessarily needed to nerf damage or fire rate of the weapon to make it more balanced. Let`s take Typhoon for instance. Just triple the mana usage and BAM - it is not that attractive anymore, even though it`s still incredebly strong. Snowman Cannon - just make rockets more dangerous. If rockets would damage the player, the incredible versatility of cannon will be gone, but it still will be. That`s just a few examples.

2) Adding more one-sided weapons.

Current examples: Bubble Gun, Heat Ray, Rocket Launcher, Cursed Flames, Magical Harp, Shadowbeam Staff.

What i mean under "one-sided" weapons? Weapons, that aren´t good overall, but incredebly good for certain tasks/situations. Some of you may say - "This will just bring more useless weapons into the game, that noone will use". I will say - "It will force the players to extend their arsenal and choose certain weapons for different situations.".

3) Adding more weapons demanding skill/practice.

Current examples: Rainbow Rod (Magic Missle, Flame Lash), Sniper Riffle (with high velocity bullets).

This is kind of weapon, that feels "rough" at the beginning, but after some practice it`s very fun to use it. On my opinion, this is the key for a perfect weapon - practice. Practice should be rewarded. The more time player practice a certain weapon, the better his skills and damage output gets. It's always great for the more serious players, if they can get an extra edge out of being good, beyond grind. How i imagine/see weapons like this? One of the examples - weapons like Rainbow Rod, when efficiency depends on precise cursor movements: "Cutting" enemies with fast cursor twitching (Fruit Ninja), locking cursor on enemy to accumulate damage, drawing a beam, that does piercing damage to enemies (like beam from Rainbow Gun) etc. Or just a buffed version of Sniper Rifle, that uses an expensive ammunition and requires a long time to charge, but shoots a straight powerfull beam, that does incredible damage.




Very risky topic for the first suggestion, but this problem torture me since the last 1.2.4 update and now i`m very happy, that i finally shared my thoughts with community. Maybe i`m not alone, who feel the same? We will see..


Thanks for reading.
[DOUBLEPOST=1425949257][/DOUBLEPOST]i liked the Scourge of the Corruptor when i first got it. 2 hours later i realized it eliminated all competiton from the game. Too easy
 

LoM2

Retinazer
Now the million dollar question:

Can anybody mimic this without homing weapons? Or more specifically, overpowered homing weapons?

Actually, TC, can you give a list of homing weapons that you consider overpowered? This could be an interesting experiment.

(By the way, rainbow rod really doesn't require any skill, it's just guiding a beam around. My five year old brother could do that. If it had a time limit but allowed piercing, that would allow for a bit more skill, although I'm not sure how balanced that would be.)
 

Vazilin

Terrarian
Now the million dollar question:

Can anybody mimic this without homing weapons? Or more specifically, overpowered homing weapons?

I think it would be possible with Terrablade or some other powerfull sword, since they don`t require any aiming.


Actually, TC, can you give a list of homing weapons that you consider overpowered? This could be an interesting experiment.

Almost every op homing weapon was mentioned in the vid: Scourge of Corruptor, Razorblade Typhoon, Chlorophyte Bullets, Flarion, Magnet Sphere, Horsemans Blade, Snowman rocketlauncher. Bat Scepter is doubtfull OP, since it`s almost useless in tight space like dungeon, however in open space it destroys everything.

(By the way, rainbow rod really doesn't require any skill, it's just guiding a beam around. My five year old brother could do that. If it had a time limit but allowed piercing, that would allow for a bit more skill, although I'm not sure how balanced that would be.)

You defenetly didn`t PVP`ed on version 1.1. Whoever was the best at guiding Rainbow Rod prejectile trough the tight space, was the king of PVP. Guiding beam around does not req. much skill, guiding beam around very fast trough the tight space req. a lot of practice.
 

LoveSpreader

Terrarian
Scourge of Corruptor
It has poorer DPS than Terra Blade, Far outstripped by North Pole, THB(with statue exploit), Flairon.

Chlorophyte Bullets
It's worse than Crystal and Ichor Bullet with any gun, both available at the start at HM. Not to mention explosive bullet far outstrips its ability in crowd control.

Magnet Sphere
This, like Nimbus Rod, works as additive DPS. They don't work good as primary weapons at all. The homing is necessary to make it useful.

Razorblade Typhoon
Its forte is crowd control. In truth, it's got :red: DPS for single targets because of piercing. Not good at all for specific bosses.

Horsemans Blade
Snowman rocketlauncher
Bat Scepter
These are rewards for tackling the boss with best overall stats and the toughest events in the game. They aren't available from the get-go.

Here's the thing, PVP is an addon without much thought. Nothing in the game is balanced around PVP or multiplayer(though expert mode might change the latter).

Truth be told, I don't see a need to nerf any of them. I think the Razorblade Typhoon's homing could use a bit of a fix even, because right now it homes as soon as it appears, not caring about your aim at all.
 

DestroyerArcher

The Destroyer
Flawed argument.

The video used homing weapons, but most of them are only avaliable after going in the dungeon. 2 of the weapons come from the dungeon itself(Scrouge of the corruptor and Magnet Sphere. There are only 3 weapons from your list that are avaliable pre-dungeon: Flairon, Razorblade Typhoon, and Chlorophyte bullets.

Flairon and Razorblade Typhoon comes from one of the hardest bosses, so if you can beat Fishron that early, it's well deserved due to the strength of Fishron at that stage.

Chlorophyte bullets...weaker than crystal bullets and you'd be better off saving Chlorophyte for post-plantera armor.
 

LoM2

Retinazer
There are only 3 weapons from your list that are avaliable pre-dungeon: Flairon, Razorblade Typhoon, and Chlorophyte bullets.
I think it's fair to note that two of those are drops from what is widely considered the most difficult boss in the game, which while it does not require entering the dungeon, is much harder than the dungeon as a whole, even with full endgame gear.
 

DestroyerArcher

The Destroyer
I think it's fair to note that two of those are drops from what is widely considered the most difficult boss in the game, which while it does not require entering the dungeon, is much harder than the dungeon as a whole, even with full endgame gear.
Flairon and Razorblade Typhoon comes from one of the hardest bosses, so if you can beat Fishron that early, it's well deserved due to the strength of Fishron at that stage.
 

Kyouko Tsukino

Steampunker
Correct use of other weaponry makes these "broken" items not so broken after all. Also, many of the "homing" weapons are from endgame content - or content which requires some actual skill to be tackled before endgame - hence making their supposedly overpowered status not a point at all - they're rewards, not tools.

Let's nerf things because a player - or a group of players - thinks they make the game too easy. That will not affect the "real" players, just those with no skills. Who cares about those guys, right? //Sarcasm.

All in all, I have one single question for you: If you already know "not using them" is a solution to this "problem", then why the heck is this thread even a thing?
 

Dakota Spine

Headless Horseman
Honestly, it isn't needed. It's already been said before, but they are endgame weapons. So of course they are going to be powerful and have powerful abilities. If you ask me, I don't think that they are really OP, and the homing weapons aren't really the best. All of these really seem fine as they are.

I can see where you are getting at with the "Extending the arsenal" thing. But more weapons you need to root through isn't the way to go about fixing the issues you brought up.
 

Vazilin

Terrarian
Well, if surviving in hardmode dungeon for almost 30 minutes without armour and without using mouse isn`t overpowered enough, then i just don`t know what OP is...

You kinda missed the point i`ve tried to bring with this thread (i don`t know, if it`s my fault or yours). I`m not against someone, who uses these weapons and i`m not even too much for nerfing these weapons, since i don`t use them. I`m against adding more homing weapons into the game, when suggestion thread is overflowed with interestning ideas about end-game weapons, beyond "hold the mouse button and watch your enemies die". It`s just feels like a legit cheat code - recieving a huge adventage without ANY kind of efforts, consequnses or costs. If you think, that this is the correct path of development of an action game, then i`m just scared for the future updates..
 

Kyouko Tsukino

Steampunker
If you think that weapons which are obtained after the game ends or fighting some side challenges undergeared should be just normal, boring gear, then... I don't know what to say here, really, other than "you're missing the point of post-endgame/side challenge gear."

Also, you're assuming 1.3 mobs and bosses will not be made so these "OP" weapons become weaksauce, everyday white items - comparatively speaking. I'll tell you, before 1.1, the Dark Lance was "OP" too, since the hardest boss was Skeletron, who got skewered fast by it, even before the nerf to pre-hardmode to make hardmode seem harder.

To give you an example on why what I mentioned in the first paragraph doesn't quite work with Terraria: I can get full meteor gear before fighting the Eye of Cthulhu, by sequence breaking the game. Then I can go and kill the EoC several times in one night. "Meteor gear is OP, let's nerf it."

By the way, your video proves nothing. Surviving in the hardmode dungeon for thirty minutes can be done with a lot of gear combinations, provided you have the skill to do so. If you choose to take the "unskilled player" route, then it's not the game's fault. At all. Use gear which matches your skill level if you want a challenge, don't blame the game for the shortcuts you knowingly take.
 

Vazilin

Terrarian
If you think that weapons which are obtained after the game ends or fighting some side challenges undergeared should be just normal, boring gear, then... I don't know what to say here, really, other than "you're missing the point of post-endgame/side challenge gear."

If i understood correctly, you assume, that non-homing weapons are "just normal, boring gear"? Seriously? At this point i might aswell just stop this conversation right here. How holding the mouse button and watching you enemies die is interstning, while other non-homing weaponry is "just normal, boring"? Sorry, i just can`t get it.

Also, you're assuming 1.3 mobs and bosses will not be made so these "OP" weapons become weaksauce, everyday white items - comparatively speaking.

That`s my only hope, really.

I'll tell you, before 1.1, the Dark Lance was "OP" too, since the hardest boss was Skeletron, who got skewered fast by it, even before the nerf to pre-hardmode to make hardmode seem harder.

That`s why it got fixed in v 1.0.6, so you can`t get Dark Lance without killing the Skeletron.

To give you an example on why what I mentioned in the first paragraph doesn't quite work with Terraria: I can get full meteor gear before fighting the Eye of Cthulhu, by sequence breaking the game. Then I can go and kill the EoC several times in one night. "Meteor gear is OP, let's nerf it."

By the way, your video proves nothing. Surviving in the hardmode dungeon for thirty minutes can be done with a lot of gear combinations, provided you have the skill to do so. If you choose to take the "unskilled player" route, then it's not the game's fault. At all. Use gear which matches your skill level if you want a challenge, don't blame the game for the shortcuts you knowingly take.

Not the best example, think again. There is a lot of ways to kill several EOC in one night without too much skill involved (flintlock pistol, grenades, molotov cocktails, gem staves - just some of them), but there is almost no way to survive in Hardmode Dungeon without armour and mouse for 30 minutes without homing weapons (maybe some end-game swords will help, but thats pretty much it).
 

Dakota Spine

Headless Horseman
but there is almost no way to survive in Hardmode Dungeon without armour and mouse for 30 minutes without homing weapons (maybe some end-game swords will help, but thats pretty much it).

It's not too hard to survive there without homing weapons. Really any powerful weapon will suffice.
 

Kyouko Tsukino

Steampunker
You still focus only on homing weapons, then?

Go to the dungeon wearing the spectre healer set and any high-level, non-homing magic, and a few stacks of mana. Achieve immortality.

Heck, really, most Plantera-level weapons (or "moon" weapons) can get you through the hardmode dungeon for as long as you want. Again, if you choose to use those homing weapons, it's not the game's fault. If you think those weapons make the game boring for someone so skilled and badass, then the solution is in your opening post.

Also, you're over-inflating homing weapons' proficiency, making it look like they are all as supposedly overpowered as the Scourge. They're not. There's weapons that can do the same in less time and with much more ease, as long as the player can be arsed to aim and dodge - two basic skills of the game.

And really:

I'm guessing that the entire summoner class is also OP and degrades the game?

This proves how flawed the "OP" argument is.As a summoner, I can just dodge and let my pets murderstomp everything, without needing to use the left mouse button. Summoners are so OP, right?
 

Vazilin

Terrarian
I'm guessing that the entire summoner class is also OP and degrades the game?
Since armour has low defence, this class much more balanced than others and current Yri`s summoner walktrough clearly demonstrates the intensity of this playstyle.
Tiki Armour + Best acces. + Tempest staff is a threatening combination, that`s for sure, but it`s not even close to end-game setups of other classes.
 
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