*DEVS* Did you even playtest 1.4 master mode??? #OVERTUNED

Brixtan

Brixtan

Terrarian
Hey -

Most of master mode feels hard, challenging, which is great considering expert mode was pretty much a breeze.

...however...

Did you all even thoroughly playtest the lunar events in master mode? I have 126 defense capped and trash mobs for the pillars still hit for 100 - 200 dmg a click. It's a bit stupid. Honestly, I love playing the game as a hardcore player but I will NEVER run this game on master mode hardcore for the stupidly overtuned pillars alone.

Side-note:

The underground desert is also stupidly over tuned (gee, lets put a million cacti in there that inst-gib players and make the loot underwhelming for the risk/reward). It's pretty much skipped entirely every playthrough.

Slightly triggered/annoyed,

Brixtan

TLDR: your :red: is overtuned on 1.4 master mode - specifically the lunar events and the underground desert.
 
Brixtan said:
Hey -

Most of master mode feels hard, challenging, which is great considering expert mode was pretty much a breeze.

...however...

Did you all even thoroughly playtest the lunar events in master mode? I have 126 defense capped and trash mobs for the pillars still hit for 100 - 200 dmg a click. It's a bit stupid. Honestly, I love playing the game as a hardcore player but I will NEVER run this game on master mode hardcore for the stupidly overtuned pillars alone.

Side-note:

The underground desert is also stupidly over tuned (gee, lets put a million cacti in there that inst-gib players and make the loot underwhelming for the risk/reward). It's pretty much skipped entirely every playthrough.

Slightly triggered/annoyed,

Brixtan

TLDR: your :red: is overtuned on 1.4 master mode - specifically the lunar events and the underground desert.
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I get your upset, but still they made Master Mode a challenge, made the desert a lot harder cause very one would go there for loot, but they also now allow us to get desert fossil with any pickaxe power! Master mode is supposed to be hard, and a challenge, burn for some people it’s just expert mode+(which is exactly what it is) they made enemies stronger and get more health, the enemies are the most abnoying compared to boss bosses, but because you are having trouble with one certain mode probably means that you aren’t ready yet, keep in mind mastermode is supposed to Ben a challenge, a challenge!! Now imagine playing master mode for the worthy seed, yikes.
 
The entirety of master mode is stupid. They said it would be for the tryhards, when the tryhards get absolutely ZERO new content out of it. If you can nohit a boss for 90 seconds, you can nohit a boss for 110. That changes literally nothing. They should have not touched numbers at all and just given new attack patterns. In it's current state, it's not difficult and entirely just tedious. I am not hyperbolizing when I say this is the worst feature in the entirety of 1.4 by far.
 
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Derpling Ω said:
The entirety of master mode is stupid. They said it would be for the tryhards, when the tryhards get abslutely ZERO new content out of it. If you can nohit a boss for 90 seconds, you can nohit a boss for 110. That changes literally nothing.
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I wish there were at least a little change in some AI’s I would have liked if they changed the eye of chu chu’s Dash to be why closer to you even with Hermès boots on, and many other AI tweaks
 
Derpling Ω said:
The entirety of master mode is stupid. They said it would be for the tryhards, when the tryhards get abslutely ZERO new content out of it. If you can nohit a boss for 90 seconds, you can nohit a boss for 110. That changes literally nothing. They should have not touched numbers at all and just given new attack patterns. In it's current state, it's not difficult and entirely just tedious. I am not hyperbolizing when I say this is the worst feature in the entirety of 1.4 by far.
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They pretty much #JayWilsoned master mode - took the monster HP and dmg and then 'doubled them'. The epitome of lazy game design.
 
I've noticed that some projectile-using enemies seem to be doing more damage than the Bestiary and Wiki suggests. Enemies like the Angry Dandelion (Hardmode), Rock Golem, and Nailhead have all done over 300 damage to me with their projectiles for seemingly no reason, and their projectiles are pretty fast too. Why is this the case? Is this working as intended?
 
Derpling Ω said:
The entirety of master mode is stupid. They said it would be for the tryhards, when the tryhards get absolutely ZERO new content out of it. If you can nohit a boss for 90 seconds, you can nohit a boss for 110. That changes literally nothing. They should have not touched numbers at all and just given new attack patterns. In it's current state, it's not difficult and entirely just tedious. I am not hyperbolizing when I say this is the worst feature in the entirety of 1.4 by far.
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I couldn't agree more, this mode had so much potential to give as a fun, new way to play the game but all we got are some lazy stat changes. Honestly I find it sad that an easter egg seed does more to change the game than an entire mode. As much as I wanted to give this mode a chance hardmode and the lunar events were the final nails in the coffin for this mode IMO.

I get that master mode was made for " Tryhards " but when some one like Leviathan doesn't like the mode, then you know its bad.
 
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For the comment on some creatures projectile damage, I believe it does a sort of generic damage rating, and the Wiki tries to utilize ranged damage which makes the math funky. One of the mods explained this.

As far as Master mode, I do agree in that the flat HP bonus to all creatures is just plain silly in some cases. Some creatures have way too much HP to begin with in Expert mode and adding more just makes things drag on.

However, I do like Master Mode overall. It had made me rework the way I go about certain things. Dodging and strategically attacking things has more emphasis as opposed to the old 'charge in like Rambo' and just kill everything. Some of the one-hit complaints I have read about I haven't had any issues with, especially the cactus boulders. They are very easy to deal with and even when I've slipped up (Master Mode is less forgiving with mistakes) and had one hit me I wasn't one-hit killed. Maybe all those anti-Warding people should rethink some things.

And my opinion still remains the same, if you don't like Master mode don't play it. No one is forcing you. You made that choice.

One exception: I have yet to face the Lunar Events and I know those centipedes will be a major problem. They were the most difficult before on expert.
 
Banmei said:
For the comment on some creatures projectile damage, I believe it does a sort of generic damage rating, and the Wiki tries to utilize ranged damage which makes the math funky. One of the mods explained this.
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Alrighty, but that's still a bit strange. Master Mode promises that enemies do 3x the amount of normal mode, but some of the projectiles seem to stray from that promise. For example, nails from Nailhead do only 30 on normal, meaning they should only do 90 on Master Mode. However, they just end up doing above 250 damage with each hit, making it very annoying to approach them because of how fast and erratic the nails can be. This applies to more projectile-using enemies too, so maybe it can be tweaked to be more accurate to enemy damage multipliers? It's kinda like fighting an enemy and expecting it to have the typical 3x health multiplier, but then it goes off and has 10x health for seemingly no reason.
 
I absolutely agree with all of you, the entirety of master mode is plain outraging. Of course, when we saw 1.4, we thought that master mode was going to add extreme difficulty ai, for example: Eye of Cthulhu but it can teleport, Skeletron but he has 4 hands, or Plantera with a third phase. But all of master mode was just hardcore buffed expert mode, no ai changes, which makes it more frustrating than fun. The main reason I think they did this was because of quarantine time, they rushed to finish 1.4 at May 16, 2020. I hope there can be AI changes in 1.4.1. Because I know there are a lot more features that they are planning to add.

TL;DR: Master mode didn't add new AI. Master mode was rushed, I hope 1.4.1 can change it.
 
As someone who has regularly done Expert Revengeance playthroughs with various self-imposed challenges (including Vanilla-Only up to Moonlord at one point), I just don't find Master Mode fun. While I honestly didn't actually expect it to be anything but an arbitrary increase in numbers, experiencing just how much those numbers were pumped up means I don't have much enthusiasm at all. It feels like Master Mode was designed to be punishing, not difficult. Test my patience, not my skill. If I was good enough to just never get hit in the first place, the increase in numbers wouldn't actually effect me all that much, and as it stood I was already trying to no-hit bosses even without the punishment of overinflated damage. And outside of bosses, regular enemies just become tedious and annoying.

For a while after the release of Expert mode, I didn't like it because it felt too hard. Then I adjusted, and it became my new "normal."
Then I started playing with mods, and thought Revengeance mode was too hard. Then I adjusted, and it became my new "normal."
Now, however, Master Mode feels different and less satisfying than either of those, and I just don't see myself wanting to adjust to it.
 
Shadowaltz said:
As someone who has regularly done Expert Revengeance playthroughs with various self-imposed challenges (including Vanilla-Only up to Moonlord at one point), I just don't find Master Mode fun. While I honestly didn't actually expect it to be anything but an arbitrary increase in numbers, experiencing just how much those numbers were pumped up means I don't have much enthusiasm at all. It feels like Master Mode was designed to be punishing, not difficult. Test my patience, not my skill. If I was good enough to just never get hit in the first place, the increase in numbers wouldn't actually effect me all that much, and as it stood I was already trying to no-hit bosses even without the punishment of overinflated damage. And outside of bosses, regular enemies just become tedious and annoying.

For a while after the release of Expert mode, I didn't like it because it felt too hard. Then I adjusted, and it became my new "normal."
Then I started playing with mods, and thought Revengeance mode was too hard. Then I adjusted, and it became my new "normal."
Now, however, Master Mode feels different and less satisfying than either of those, and I just don't see myself wanting to adjust to it.
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This
 
Maybe the reason why It sucks, is because you guys are playing alone. Ever since I begun playing the new update, I'm only playing Master Mode on multiplayer with friends. On Multiplayer It is quite fine.

Also, some of the bosses unique rewards for the game more are really cool, like mounts and stuff. If you manage to get the pirate ship mount early on hardmode, you can deal with most of the hardmode bosses with ease.
 
Nakano15 said:
Maybe the reason why It sucks, is because you guys are playing alone. Ever since I begun playing the new update, I'm only playing Master Mode on multiplayer with friends. On Multiplayer It is quite fine.

Also, some of the bosses unique rewards for the game more are really cool, like mounts and stuff. If you manage to get the pirate ship mount early on hardmode, you can deal with most of the hardmode bosses with ease.
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The game in general is exponentially more fun with friends, but I agree masters mode is a must with friends. It's 100% harder when you're solo.
 
Shadowaltz said:
Now, however, Master Mode feels different and less satisfying than either of those, and I just don't see myself wanting to adjust to it.
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You nailed that in head, I don't feel like doing more Master mode runs as much as Expert did, if anything I think expert mode+for the worthy seed wound bring more fun, Master+seed if I'm going total tryhard.
 
I agree with pretty much everyone's feedback in this thread.

The lens through which I'm experiencing master mode (as a solo hardcore run experience) may just be a very poor way to experience the mode. Someone said a few posts above that playing multiplayer makes master mode exponentially better and I'm sure that's certainly the case. And for the record, I've beaten the game in expert mode as a solo hardcore run. I don't consider myself easily frustrated at mechanics, but master mode...makes me rage.

As for the gripes on the poor balance, there are handful of examples of seriously spikey, near unmitigable damage that just seem more punishing than challenging:

1. The dandelions during the windy day event
2. The rock golems rock throws (still hit for in excess of 150 dmg with 126 capped defense)
3. Pretty much all the ranged damage on the solar event (nails and eyzor lazers, I'm looking at you)
4. The lunar pillars...don't even get me started.
5. The underground desert - again, others have said it elsewhere but the entire area feels WAY over tuned for the type of gear that you get from that area.
 
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