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Discussion about classes and their design and gameplay

Do you agree that classes have weapons that can be confusing to players?

  • Yes, I agree, and I also agree with your opinion!

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • Yes, but I have my own opinion on how they should sorted!

    Votes: 1 14.3%
  • No, but your opinion is fair enough to me!

    Votes: 3 42.9%
  • No, weapons are placed in their classes as intended!/but I have my own opinion!

    Votes: 2 28.6%

  • Total voters
    7

Firch

Official Terrarian
(I'm not sure if this is right place to post stuff like this.)
(I'll hope you'll understand what I mean in this post. Feel free to ask questions or discuss!)
(Also, I can miss something, please tell me if you find something weird or missing in my post)

Terraria has CLASSES. Each class has individual type of damage - Melee, Ranged, Magic and Summon. I want to give my opinions about good and bad sides of classes.

In my opinion, each class must be individual not only in terms of gameplay. They must be individual also in terms of design. I'll show you what I mean by "design": Melee weapons must be things that player hold and they can't be released from player's hands; They do damage with themselves and they require player's force (However, melee weapons can send projectiles if they are "enchanted", I'll talk about enchanted weapons later). Ranged weapons - also can't released from player's hands; ranged weapons are things that supposed to help player shoot physical projectiles (bullets) without the physical force of player; player just need to push trigger to shoot. Magic weapons - no matter if this weapon is staff or some kind of pistol, it should require magic forces (mana) from player and they can't shoot or require physical projectiles like bullets or swords, projectiles must be pure magical, not enchanted! And the summoner weapons are tricky ones and I think they are VERY similar to magic (Staves that require mana, magically-created creatures), so they need a redesign.

What is enchanted weapon? Enchanted weapon - weapon that works as intended by a class, but with a use of weapon's magic (not player's). Easiest examples are Terra Blade, Star Wrath, Daedalus Stormbow, etc. Every magic weapon can't be enchanted because they already use magic, but pure (without anything else).

The table of classes has awoken!
ClassIn terms of designIn terms of gameplayFitting weapons that may confuse youUnfitting weapons that must move into different class
Melee weaponsThings that player hold and they can't be released from player's hands; They do damage with themselves and they require player's forceNo ammunitionTerra Blade, Star Wrath (They are just enchanted), Flails (To move a flail you need to always hold it's handle, and you aren't supposed to hold and release the flail's morning star (that spiky thing))All boomerangs and yo-yos (They should be throwing weapons, because they released from player's hands), KO Cannon, Golem Fist
Ranged weaponsThings that player hold and they can't be released from player's hands; They are supposed to help player shoot physical projectiles (bullets) without the physical force of player; player just need to push trigger to shootMust require ammunition - Items (bullets, darts, coins, etc. - depends on subclass), Can't require other types of ammunition (Like mana)?Piranha gun, Toxikarp (Not fitting because of gameplay)
Magic weaponsThings that player hold and they can't be released from player's hands; Things should require magic forces (mana) from player (not weapon) and they can't shoot or require physical projectiles like enchanted bullets or enchanted swords, projectiles must be pure magicalMust require ammunition - Mana, Can't require other types of ammunition (Like items)Space gun (It doesn't shoot bullets, why this gun often confuses everyone?)Toxic Flask, Magic Dagger (Not fitting because they are released form hands, they can be moved into throwing weapons)
Summon weapons? (Too magical)? (Too magical)Every weapon can be identified as magical, so there is no fitting weapons in Terraria currently!Every weapon.
So, here are the problems. The solution to KO Cannon, Golem Fist, Piranha gun is moving into ranged weapons and adding one type of ammunition, something like power-storing batteries. Toxikarp can stay as ranged weapon if it will get ammunition like existing water bottles (I think that's a cool idea because you can refill them at any moment!). Or Toxikarp can also move into magic weapons (with adding need for mana).


How I think summoner weapons must be in terms of design and gameplay (You can think of your own design and gameplay!):
Summon weaponsThings that attract animals or creatures, they are just "consumed" by player, for example like boss summonsNo ammunition; You can choose the aim--
Summon weapons (But sentry subclass)Things that you built and they damage enemies without your help at allRequires Ammunition - Building Time--
 
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Firch

Official Terrarian
Noticed that I mentioned thrower class in table of classes? In my opinion, the thrower was very good by design, just lacked amount of weapons. I mean why not to move boomerangs and yo-yos to thrower class? Players use boomerangs and yo-yos very rarely when they are playing by melee class.

What the point of this post?

To show that classes should be unique not only in terms of gameplay, but also in terms of logic to not confuse players. When 1.4 come to life, I was really confused because of whips (And even before 1.4 I was confused by summoner that looked VERY VERY similar to mage. When they made whips for summoner, they make him even worse imo).

Okay, you can say that the changing classes of weapons will broke all balance. Yes I agree, but this is a different problem that can be easily solved, for example, with adding new weapons.

Hidden point of the post that I didn't talk about: Classes from mods should be unique too. I like Thorium's Bard class by design, I hate it because Bard using inspiration that looks almost the same as existing vanilla mana. I don't like classes like Druid or Shaman because they looking like existing vanilla mages.
 
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Omega Derpling

Plantera
Melee is attacks which consume nothing at all and tend to become more powerful the closer you are to the enemy, which boomerangs and the Fist Guns do fit. I can't make an excuse for the Piranha Gun and Toxikarp though.

Ranger is defined by attacks with limited uses, be it through ammo or the weapon itself (which is why thrower style weapons became ranged and not melee).

Magic simply uses mana, which is distinct from ammo in that it requires no resources to recharge, but you can use resources to recharge it faster.

Summoner is defined by attacking indirectly or helping said indirect attacks (which can be done using whips). The thing about this is that these indirect attacks don't stop you from also using direct attacks, making summoner mixed with other classes ("Impure" Summoner) the most powerful class in the game.
 

Firch

Official Terrarian
Melee is attacks which consume nothing at all and tend to become more powerful the closer you are to the enemy, which boomerangs and the Fist Guns do fit. I can't make an excuse for the Piranha Gun and Toxikarp though.

Ranger is defined by attacks with limited uses, be it through ammo or the weapon itself (which is why thrower style weapons became ranged and not melee).

Magic simply uses mana, which is distinct from ammo in that it requires no resources to recharge, but you can use resources to recharge it faster.

Summoner is defined by attacking indirectly or helping said indirect attacks (which can be done using whips). The thing about this is that these indirect attacks don't stop you from also using direct attacks, making summoner mixed with other classes ("Impure" Summoner) the most powerful class in the game.
You missed the whole point why I created this post! I talking about that classes must be sorted not only by gameplay, but also by logic! For example, why whips is summoner and not melee?
 

whoneedsnamestbh

Eater of Worlds
You missed the whole point why I created this post! I talking about that classes must be sorted not only by gameplay, but also by logic! For example, why whips is summoner and not melee?

The idea is that whips are traditionally used to train beasts, or create a loud noise to direct attention. That’s why they are summon weapons, and why they buff minions.
 

Firch

Official Terrarian
The idea is that whips are traditionally used to train beasts, or create a loud noise to direct attention. That’s why they are summon weapons, and why they buff minions.
The idea itself that whips used to train beasts is fine, but it's strange imo that they make summon damage instead of melee. You hold them, you deal damage with them.
In terms in gameplay, yeah, they are okay, but in terms of design they are fitting to melee damage, not summon
 

whoneedsnamestbh

Eater of Worlds
I think you’re overinterpreting the damage class boundaries.

As far as game design goes, it’s actually pretty simple. Melee is weapons that are free of material limits, ranged is stuff with limited capacity (either ammo or thrown), mage is stuff with continuous mana usage and summons is stuff that either creates minions that fight independently or boosts them. As the devs designed it, it’s not a hyper specific deviance between classes, just a few categories separated as core mechanics between them.
 

Firch

Official Terrarian
I think you’re overinterpreting the damage class boundaries.

As far as game design goes, it’s actually pretty simple. Melee is weapons that are free of material limits, ranged is stuff with limited capacity (either ammo or thrown), mage is stuff with continuous mana usage and summons is stuff that either creates minions that fight independently or boosts them. As the devs designed it, it’s not a hyper specific deviance between classes, just a few categories separated as core mechanics between them.
That's what I calling the gameplay features, not design, you a bit misunderstood me. By design I mean actions that terraria's character making for weapon to deal damage. For example if character holds this weapon without releasing and beat monsters with it, it is a melee weapon. If character holds weapon that can't do damage on it's own but can launch/throw something at monsters, then it is a ranged weapon
 

whoneedsnamestbh

Eater of Worlds
That's what I calling the gameplay features, not design, you a bit misunderstood me. By design I mean actions that terraria's character making for weapon to deal damage. For example if character holds this weapon without releasing and beat monsters with it, it is a melee weapon. If character holds weapon that can't do damage on it's own but can launch/throw something at monsters, then it is a ranged weapon

I honestly don’t think that much depth was supposed to go into class designs. I see what you’re saying, but with how Terraria works, having such specific design features per class would really limit how creative the weapon designs could get.

For example, I’m pretty sure Melee wasn’t supposed to be specifically held by the player even though it’s how most games define melee. Boomerangs have been a part of Melee since 1.0, and thrown weapons like Vampire Knives or Daybreak have also always been a huge part of the class. I don’t think melee should be defined as strictly hand wielded weapons, because then that limits what the devs can do with the class.

Another example summoner is defined simply as either summoning or boosting minions. Whips are technically wielded by hand, but it just makes more sense gameplay wise to have them as summoner weapons because they boost minions. It’d actually be pretty convoluted if summoners had to borrow weapons from melee just to buff their own class.

By separating classes by no more than core mechanics, it opens up what the devs are really able to do with each class without either having to follow overly strict guidelines or having to make a thousand different classes.

I see what you’re trying to suggest. There’s merit behind it for most games - it’s basically how you would usually define the classes - but with the way Terraria’s classes have been so specifically built, it just doesn’t work for Terraria.
 

Nemo

Terrarian
Come to think of it, frankly, I feel classes might just be something created by the player base.

Terraria's combat design is clearly inspired by games like Castlevania:SotN. There aren't really any classes. Just items that anyone can use. Some items synergize well with each other - some don't.

While Re-Logic frequently entertain requests for more powerful weapons of a specific type, to increase viability of specific playstyles (thus variety of playstyles available), but I don't think they really cared about "classes".
 

Firch

Official Terrarian
Come to think of it, frankly, I feel classes might just be something created by the player base.

Terraria's combat design is clearly inspired by games like Castlevania:SotN. There aren't really any classes. Just items that anyone can use. Some items synergize well with each other - some don't.

While Re-Logic frequently entertain requests for more powerful weapons of a specific type, to increase viability of specific playstyles (thus variety of playstyles available), but I don't think they really cared about "classes".
In my post I mean "Class = Type of damage", not the playstyles. This post not about how you should play with them, you can really play as you want, the point of this post to show that weapons are sorted in a strange way
 

Terrariamsrs

Terrarian
boomerangs should be ranged but yoyos are connected by string and KO cannon/golem fist should stay melee and once again connected by something
 
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