Items Enchanted Boomerang Should be a Gold-Chest-Exclusive Item Again

[Dapling]

That's not a chance, that requires pixel perfect spacing so that the boomerang reverses right as it's about to hit something. Plus multihits have to fight enemy defense twice, and you aren't going to use the enchanted boomerang against wall of flesh.

And rangers do amazingly well against wall of flesh. You forgot that that example I gave was not even the strongest option. They have the Minishark, Quad Barrel Shotgun, Hellfire Arrows, Jester's Arrows, Crimtane Bow...

Oh, by the way, the Quad Barrel Shotgun:

This is also pre-boss, and it hits four times, without even needing pixel perfect spacing.

 

[Magician]

That's not a chance, that requires pixel perfect spacing so that the boomerang reverses right as it's about to hit something. Plus multihits have to fight enemy defense twice, and you aren't going to use the enchanted boomerang against wall of flesh.

And rangers do amazingly well against wall of flesh. They have Beenades, the Minishark, Quad Barrel Shotgun, Bees Knees, Hellwing Bow, Molten Fury...

Oh, by the way, the Quad Barrel Shotgun:

This is also pre-boss, and it hits four times.

If we're talking about WoF, what about Night's Edge, Terragrim, Sunfury, Flamarang and even Starfury? They also do a lot of damage.

By the way, the point about the Enchanted Boomerang is that it's OP the point you get it, not agaisnt WoF.

 

[Dapling]

If we're talking about WoF, what about Night's Edge, Terragrim, Sunfury, Flamarang and even Starfury? They also do a lot of damage.

Sunfury is the only one there that actually does any exceptional amount of damage. All of the other ones are outclassed by the Flamelash which does 36 damage and always hits twice, unlike boomerangs. And that's not even a ranger weapon.

 

[Magician]

Sunfury is the only one there that actually does any exceptional amount of damage. All of the other ones are outclassed by the Flamelash which does 36 damage and always hits twice, unlike boomerangs. And that's not even a ranger weapon.

And then we go again to the point that melee has more defense in return of doing a little less damage. Mages need mana potions and get the mana sickness debuff which decreases their damage by quite a bunch for quite a bunch of time, unlike melee. Sunfury is not the only one that does a lot of damage if you use the others properly.

 

[Dapling]

And then we go again to the point that melee has more defense in return of doing a little less damage. ]

which would be fine, if you didn't have to get extremely close to your enemy compared to literally every other class and nullify that defense entirely.

Mages need mana potions and get the mana sickness debuff which decreases their damage by quite a bunch for quite a bunch of time, unlike melee.

I'm going to stop you right there. Had you ever actually played a mage run, you would know that Mana Regeneration Potions exist, which can actually completely replace mana potions in slower weapon's like the Flamelash's case and do not decrease damage. The regeneration they give is that strong, and they don't even require any rare materials or fishing to craft in bulk.

Sunfury is not the only one that does a lot of damage if you use the others properly.

Night's edge has comparatively tiny range with only infinitesimally less use time, and it doesn't even hit twice.
Terragrim would if it didn't have low base damage which is easily countered by enemy defense, and if it didn't have under 2 blocks of range (so literally the entire weapon's gimmick),
Flamarang has half the use time with less than half the total damage unless you perfectly space, in which case it still has less total damage and you now have to wait for it to come back,
Starfury is prone to miss it's star projectile, and even if you hit it you still do less damage unless you also hit with the blade, and then we have the tiny range issue again.

 

[Sora_92]

And then we go again to the point that melee has more defense in return of doing a little less damage. Mages need mana potions and get the mana sickness debuff which decreases their damage by quite a bunch for quite a bunch of time, unlike melee. Sunfury is not the only one that does a lot of damage if you use the others properly.

When thinking about mages, you could just use mana regen potion instead. and there's magic cuffs too, if you're playing normal, where you can afford to get hit somewhat often...

Defense is cool and all, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matters that much on higher difficulties, when you will try to dodge attacks as much as you can. yes, sometimes you get hit, and defense matters those times, but the more range you have, the less close you have to be, so, maybe that means getting hit less.

And I would still choose mandible blade over the enchanted boomerang as secondary weapon (or to be more precise, something against mobs usually), and neither as main against bosses.

Point being, enchanted boomerang seems to be strong if you get it on the first day, but otherwise you can get much better weapons, still pre-bosses. also... even if it would be in gold chests, you still could get it the first day, like if you explored a natural cave that lead just deep enough and there was a gold chest.

 

[Magician]

which would be fine, if you didn't have to get extremely close to your enemy compared to literally every other class and nullify that defense entirely.

Which would be fair, if that wasn't the main point of the melee class.

I'm going to stop you right there. Had you ever actually played a mage run, you would know that Mana Regeneration Potions exist, which can actually completely replace mana potions in slower weapon's like the Flamelash's case and do not decrease damage. The regeneration they give is that strong, and they don't even require any rare materials or fishing to craft in bulk.

If that's the case melee can also use Ironskin, Inferno, Rage/Wrath, Thorns and others.

Night's edge has comparatively tiny range with only infinitesimally less use time, and it doesn't even hit twice.

If Night's Edge has tiny range, I don't know what has big range. You can't expect every sword to be like Breaker Blade.

Terragrim would if it didn't have low base damage which is easily countered by enemy defense, and if it didn't have under 2 blocks of range (so literally the entire weapon's gimmick),

You can just use armor and acessories to increase it's damage though.

Flamarang has half the use time with less than half the total damage unless you perfectly space, in which case it still has less total damage and you now have to wait for it to come back,

The thing about waiting for it to come back is the price to pay because melee isn't supposed to have long range

Starfury is prone to miss it's star projectile, and even if you hit it you still do less damage unless you also hit with the blade, and then we have the tiny range issue again.

The star literally does 44 damage.

Defense is cool and all, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matters that much on higher difficulties, when you will try to dodge attacks as much as you can. yes, sometimes you get hit, and defense matters those times, but the more range you have, the less close you have to be, so, maybe that means getting hit less.

I agree about the higher difficulty thing and all but again, one of melee's biggest characteristics is the defense, if you're looking purely for damage, you should probably play another class instead.

Point being, enchanted boomerang seems to be strong if you get it on the first day, but otherwise you can get much better weapons, still pre-bosses. also... even if it would be in gold chests, you still could get it the first day, like if you explored a natural cave that lead just deep enough and there was a gold chest.

The better weapons would be things like Ice Blade which are harder to get. The thing about it being on gold chests is that, even if you can still get it on the first day, you would actually need to explore and look for it instead of just waiting for night and collecting one fallen star.

 

[Dapling]

I apologize if you don't play on expert mode, most of my experience is from there and taking any damage at all in it is a horrible mistake. Enemies do so much that defense doesn't even help too much anymore.

If Night's Edge has tiny range, I don't know what has big range. You can't expect every sword to be like Breaker Blade.

The Flamelash has big range. It can accurately hit things that aren't even on the screen multiple times. And it does more damage than most swords. Plus you can just mindlessly spam it into the abyss and it still will hit things.

You can just use armor and acessories to increase it's damage though.

Why would I build around a weapon when there's another perfectly viable option that does not require I endanger my character to use?

The thing about waiting for it to come back is the price to pay because melee isn't supposed to have long range

Mhm, I keep stating that would be fine if your damage was actually high enough to compensate. Range should be the penalty, not damage. Two penalties for one benefit is not a good thing, especially when they're both very large penalties for one benefit that's only decent.

The star literally does 44 damage.

The Flamelash literally fires a homing projectile that does 72 damage.

 

[Dapling]

If that's the case melee can also use Ironskin, Inferno, Rage/Wrath, Thorns and others.

Also, Thorns and Inferno are the only ones that are even class exclusive there, Thorns has a ridiculous and expensive recipe, so it's automatically disqualified (plus thorns isn't strong in this game anyways), and Inferno also has a complex recipe that gives you a ring of a whopping 5 dps (woooooooow).

 

[Magician]

I apologize if you don't play on expert mode, most of my experience is from there and taking any damage at all in it is a horrible mistake. Enemies do so much that defense doesn't even help too much anymore.

Before you assume anything, my second playthrough was already expert just so you know, so I do play expert. Don't need to be sarcastic or anything, this is a friendly debate = )

Also, as I previously said, one of melees biggest characteristics is the defense. If you're only looking for damage, you should probably play another class.

The Flamelash has big range. It can accurately hit things that aren't even on the screen multiple times. And it does more damage than most swords.

Yes, but the Night's Edge is a sword. You don't throw swords, and as I said, melee has more defense and doesn't have the mana penalty so it does have an advantage.

Why would I build around a weapon when there's another perfectly viable option that does not require I endanger my character to use?

Maybe because you are playing as melee and Terragrim can do a lot of damage?

Mhm, I keep stating that would be fine if your damage was actually high enough to compensate. Range should be the penalty, not damage.

Kinda fair point, but again, Molten Armor has 25 defense while Wizard Set has like 6. The damage isn't really a penalty since the mage class is supposed to have a lot of damage in exchange for defense and the mana penalty.

The Flamelash literally fires a homing projectile that does 72 damage.

As said above.

 

[Sora_92]

It really doesn't matters, and it's going off topic somewhat arguing about range and defense, and maybe borderline getting heated too, risking mods would just shut down the thread.

High defense might be part of the stuff about melee class, but in many fights on higher difficulties, you can't really afford yourself the "luxury" of getting hit too much... and if we take away that, then you just have a class with mostly short range weapons. Melee is the first choice of most newbies, and it's awesome against mobs through most of the game - where defense also can matter - but it's not a really good choice against bosses, until much later in the game where you can get "melee" weapons with quite good range.

Also, saying "ironskin potion" and stuff doesn't really matters, because any class can utilise those.

As far as I'm concerned, I often play melee/mage hybrid, and I definitelly would use stuff like mandible blade or katana early game against mobs, but would go for gem staves and the like for early game boss fight. not a boomerang. even if I would get it, I would switch it to something like an emerald/sapphire staff as soon as I can. or just a wand of sparkling, if find one. It really can matter a lot that you can't attack with it, until your boomerang returns...

boomerangs are quite odd weapons... and being able to turn a wooden one into an enchanted one might can make players actually use them for a bit and not just throw them in a chest or sell or trash.

kinda sad too, because boomerangs could have potencial with unique stuff, like retrieving items lying on the ground. that way, players might would use them as tools, instead of weapons, because they're outclassed as weapons even inside melee class by the slightly more versatile yo-yos, I think. (they still have low range, but you won't be defenseless until the weapon returns)

 

[Magician]

Also, Thorns and Inferno are the only ones that are even class exclusive there, Thorns has a ridiculous and expensive recipe, so it's automatically disqualified (plus thorns isn't strong in this game anyways), and Inferno also has a complex recipe that gives you a ring of a whopping 5 dps (woooooooow).

Again, by your logic melee could use these to increase their damage since mage can use the magic power potion.

 

[Magician]

High defense might be part of the stuff about melee class, but in many fights on higher difficulties, you can't really afford yourself the "luxury" of getting hit too much... and if we take away that, then you just have a class with mostly short range weapons. Melee is the first choice of most newbies, and it's awesome against mobs through most of the game - where defense also can matter - but it's not a really good choice against bosses, until much later in the game where you can get "melee" weapons with quite good range.

I'll just repeat myself again, if you only care about damage, you should probably play another class, since defense is a huge part of the melee class.

It really doesn't matters, and it's going off topic somewhat arguing about range and defense, and maybe borderline getting heated too, risking mods would just shut down the thread.

I realise that, we are going a bit off-topic arguing about WoF and stuff, which I did kinda point out, but I also don't mean to offend anyone and "heat up" this thread.

Also, saying "ironskin potion" and stuff doesn't really matters, because any class can utilise those.

Thorns and fire is more for melee though.

 

[Sora_92]

Defense is cool, and I often go for armor with high defense, if I'm worrying that a boss can hit hard, but thinking more about it, on higher difficulty, getting hit a few times would kill you even in the best armors, so then defense matters little, so you could trade that off to dmg. or other stats - regen boost is awesome too, but only if you get hit...

Well, I think it is your thread, so if you think these are important to point out, that's probably fine. as long as it indeed not gets very heated. also, I'm not a mod anyway.


inferno potion is mostly useful against certain projectiles that gets destroyed upon hitting them. it's cool against plantera and stuff, but otherwise probably not too important, and like how Derpling said, thorns have a ridicolous recipe and aren't even available to craft in crimson worlds because of that (until corruption isn't introduced artifically) even then, they're not really strong...

melee is a good class later game, because the projectile-melee weapons give them decent range, but also kinda turns them not all that melee anymore.
I like melee class too, but that doesn't really changes that you have many better options than the enchanted boomerang, even if you play purely melee.
A yo-yo, flail, or anything of the sort could be a better choice that doesn't leaves you being a sitting duck until your weapon returns.

not to mention, we're talking about early game, where you likely run around in wooden armor or no armor at all, so the "defense is one of the main point of melee class" doesn't really applies yet.
And by the time it do applies, you will be long time moved on from the enchanted boomerang to stronger weapons. That's what I think.

 

[Dapling]

Also, as I previously said, one of melees biggest characteristics is the defense. If you're only looking for damage, you should probably play another class.

And yet it completely fails to reward you for using that defense. The classes' entire overarching gimmick should reward you for using it, and it. does. not.

Yes, but the Night's Edge is a sword. You don't throw swords, and as I said, melee has more defense and doesn't have the mana penalty so it does have an advantage.

cough enchanted sword, starfury, ice blade, and literally any other projectile sword cough
also:

And yet it completely fails to reward you for using that defense. The classes' entire overarching gimmick should reward you for using it, and it. does. not.

Maybe because you are playing as melee and Terragrim can do a lot of damage?

Fair enough.

Kinda fair point, but again, Molten Armor has 25 defense while Wizard Set has like 6. The damage isn't really a penalty since the mage class is supposed to have a lot of damage in exchange for defense and the mana penalty.

You just compared a set found at the start of prehardmode to one at the very end. Meteor armor (16) is a much more fair comparison and only protects you from 9 less flat damage (and that's in master mode, where the gap is biggest, in expert mode it's 7 damage and in normal it's 5) which can be nullified entirely by equipping the Band of Regeneration that's getting buffed in 1.4.1 and just continuing to fight for 9 seconds, and this is assuming you aren't even using the incredibly cheap Regeneration potions which by themself reduce the wait down to 4.5 seconds.

As said above.

I'm not sure why you mentioned the starfury's damage then.

Again, by your logic melee could use these to increase their damage since mage can use the magic power potion.

10% increased magic damage, in the flamelash's case, would increase your dps from 144 to 158 (14 damage and that increase is further boosted by gear). If you gave the Night's Edge an inferno potion, your dps would increase from 93 to 98 (5% increase which is NOT further boosted by gear, and I even was biased and gave the potion to something with lower DPS as flat damage increases benefit it more, the higher your weapon's damage goes the lower this percentage goes) and you are still endangering your character in the latter example. The Inferno Potion is an uncomparable joke to the Magic Power potion, which is even usable in the endgame instead of "5 extra dps wheee why are you using this again?" and also has a single ingredient that takes zero time to get instead of multiple time consuming ones.

 

[Magician]

Defense is cool, and I often go for armor with high defense, if I'm worrying that a boss can hit hard, but thinking more about it, on higher difficulty, getting hit a few times would kill you even in the best armors, so then defense matters little, so you could trade that off to dmg. or other stats - regen boost is awesome too, but only if you get hit...

Yes I agree defense most times is not very useful, but that's not the point. The point is that defense is one of the main characteristics of the melee class, either for the good or for the worse, it is.

inferno potion is mostly useful against certain projectiles that gets destroyed upon hitting them. it's cool against plantera and stuff, but otherwise probably not too important, and like how Derpling said, thorns have a ridicolous recipe and aren't even available to craft in crimson worlds because of that (until corruption isn't introduced artifically) even then, they're not really strong...

Fair I guess

not to mention, we're talking about early game, where you likely run around in wooden armor or no armor at all, so the "defense is one of the main point of melee class" doesn't really applies yet.

Yes, but the thing is that the discussion went out of being early game to Wall of Flesh :/

And yet it completely fails to reward you for using that defense. The classes' entire overarching gimmick should reward you for using it, and it. does. not.

If that's the point the defense should be increased, because as you said it's not that high. The damage is alright considering it is more about defense I guess.

cough enchanted sword, starfury, ice blade, and literally any other projectile sword cough
also:

Honestly I feel like the beam sword thing is more of hardmore, that's why Night's edge and it's components don't have it.

You just compared a set found at the start of prehardmode to one at the very end. Meteor armor (16) is a much more fair comparison and only protects you from 9 less flat damage (and that's in master mode, where the gap is biggest, in expert mode it's 7 damage and in normal it's 5) which can be nullified entirely by equipping the Band of Regeneration that's getting buffed in 1.4.1 and just continuing to fight for 9 seconds , and this is assuming you aren't even using the incredibly cheap Regeneration potions which by themself reduce the wait down to 4.5 seconds.

Idk about you, but I usually use the robe set until after I defeat WoF, and there are people who do the same. The meteor defense is true but it's stats are not better than the robe ones, you're most likely to use it only to pair it with space gun. And as I said, the defense of the melee should be buffed, not really the damage.

I'm not sure why you mentioned the starfury's damage then.

Well,

The damage isn't really a penalty since the mage class is supposed to have a lot of damage in exchange for defense and the mana penalty.

 

[Sora_92]

I dunno about gem robes as armor for late pre-hardmode, you can have jungle armor which is also mage, and it is awesome.

But anyway, defense and range are questionable things, but I still don't think the enchanted boomerang is all that OP for early game. it might be free, might be cheap, but leaves you rather defenseless until it returns, so for that weakness, most players likely will just replace it with another weapons soon anyway.

 

[Magician]

I dunno about gem robes as armor for late pre-hardmode, you can have jungle armor which is also mage, and it is awesome.

I compared the stats before and to me jungle armor just wasn't very worth it since the robe set had higher stats

But anyway, defense and range are questionable things, but I still don't think the enchanted boomerang is all that OP for early game. it might be free, might be cheap, but leaves you rather defenseless until it returns, so for that weakness, most players likely will just replace it with another weapons soon anyway.

The thing about the defenseless thing is that it's the price to pay for it to have high range. Think about throwing it as little bonus and the defenseless thing about a con that only exists when the target is far away. It is true that katana and mandible blade are better but again, the boomerang is way easier to obtain, it can take days to get the blade if you're unlucky and the same with the katana, while the boomerang is guaranteed on your first night.

I don't really wanna argue about WoF melee and whatnot since it's not the main point of the tread though, let's go back to the boomerang.

 

[Dapling]

The thing about the defenseless thing is that it's the price to pay for it to have high range. Think about throwing it as little bonus and the defenseless thing about a con that only exists when the target is far away. It is true that katana and mandible blade are better but again, the boomerang is way easier to obtain, it can take days to get the blade if you're unlucky and the same with the katana, while the boomerang is guaranteed on your first night.

One thing to note here is that the defensive benefit to melee hasn't shown up yet by the point you have the boomerang.

 

[Magician]

One thing to note here is that the defensive benefit to melee hasn't shown up yet by the point you have the boomerang.

The defensive benefit for melee is more for WoF and not early game which is the main point of the tread. It's more about the boomerang's damage compared to other options than melee defense.