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Expand Your Terraria Empire - Pylons, Town Building, and NPC Happiness

Kebab

Terrarian
This is not obligatory. They're not limiting you.

This is being repeated over and over but it's simply not true. Making you spend more time grinding gold is a very tangible penalty, gold is already tight in the early game and in the late game, items like the clentaminator and solutions are already expensive. Making you have to grind more gold just because you wanted to have a different design for a build is a very real limitation. Why penalise creativity at all?
 

Code Talker

Terrarian
If we were to see a Pylon IRL, how would it work to teleport? Would you just simply put your hand on it, close your eyes, think of the Pylon you want to go to, and then open your eyes, boom, magic?

Also, AWESOME UPDATE!!!!! Thank you Re-Logic for posting these spoilers as we grow nearer to Launch Day!
 

Ivar

Terrarian
I think I can build houses for the NPC according to this new system. However, I’m not going to just quit building my oil rig for a mechanic, even if she doesn’t like the ocean in the new system. I hope that a penalty for overcrowded town is what makes the final blow from the status quo to raising prices.
 

Wridian

Official Terrarian
Pretty much everyone does the same thing when base building right? A big central area right at the initial spawn point... crammed with NPCs and crafting stations and storage and more.

Regarding that part about storage, if Re-Logic is tired of every base being built around a chest warehouse, cool. SO AM I. I really really wish bases didn't need huge walls of chests to hold everything, it really drives a wedge between practical functionality and aesthetics. And on that note, if treasure chests could hold more - ideally by having more slots per chest, but bigger max stack sizes would also help - that'd make the storage part of said cramming a lot better right there.
 

Quetchi

Terrarian
It feels like this encourages shabby 3 bedroom apartments in all the biomes rather than more creative/strategic/ less empty designs for areas much too large for people that seem to want to be left alone. What are the crowded requirements in case I misinterpreted something? Can you possibly space out npcs within an area enough to still gain happiness? Like within the same biome area maybe beset by how npcs would decrease mob spawns previously but then hitting a cap where then the npcs could feel claustrophobic with, again, only 4 people?

Seems like a break in the flow of the game just to add teleports to these places for 2 or 3 npcs, not that I'm complaining about a convenient prehardmode, wireless fast travel; but to have npcs give these benifits under the condition of less fluid gameplay to get to them, it falls short.

That said, I'll probably be pulling a strategy of multiple empty rooms in areas just to move npcs out and respawning them as much of a pain as that could be if i can't fit at least 6 into a fairly spacious arrangement for some convenience.

I would be hard pressed to call a 3 person place a town anyway. That's just a nitpick though.

EDIT: I keep seeing typos cuz my thumbs are fat.
 
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rubeszilla

Terrarian
Very cool idea.

I like the RPG aspects of the relationships and personalities of the NPCs. And I think free wireless teleportation to any biome will be well worth it.

Question: If there are only 2 pylons (1 possible direction) then what's the point in the map opening up so you can select your destination? Wouldn't this just be instant travel if there's only one possible destination?

EDIT: ohhh...So you can go from a snow pylon to a forest pylon?
 
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JWBstuhr

Terrarian
I do like the update and all, there's just one thing:

Personally I'd like the ability to go back to previous versions, or maybe make the prices at least stay normal with this kind of set up:
Capture 2020-04-30 22_40_39.png
 
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majora_787

Duke Fishron
Reading input on this, this sounds like a really cool level of depth to help with things through the game. I'm definitely going to have to echo that concern though of entering hardmode--those big strips of hallow and corruption/crimson could throw things right in the trash if you put in a lot of work into this system before entering hardmode. But if you wait too long to do it in the first place, you lose out on a bit of the appeal of getting this teleporter pylon system way before you could ever buy an actual teleporter. Is there going to be anything insurance-wise against that with towns, or will it just be something you'll have to be ready for when going into hardmode--that stuff in certain places might just become either uninhabitable or an entirely different biome until you can get a Clentaminator?
 

Melster

Official Terrarian
Very cool idea.

I like the RPG aspects of the relationships and personalities of the NPCs. And I think free wireless teleportation to any biome will be well worth it.

Question: If there are only 2 pylons (1 possible direction) then what's the point in the map opening up so you can select your destination? Wouldn't this just be instant travel if there's only one possible destination?

EDIT: ohhh...So you can go from a snow pylon to a forest pylon?
What? There are more than two pylons. It's one pylon per biome per world.
 

Bangg

Steampunker
I am kinda iffy about these changes, and I have a few questions.

Usually in a play through, Ill make a fancy house for myself and a few crucial npcs, and then I'll build an arena with the Dryad and Nurse. Now im sure that the Nurse wont be cranking up the prices like mad and the Dryad will suddenly stop using her AoE, but for other npcs that would prefer to be around them, to what degree are they affected, and how many requirements need to be met so that I ensure I`m at least getting the pylons and good enough prices? What constitutes a crowded space, one that is small in terms of blocks, or one where many houses are close next to each other? I`m also confused as to whether sell prices, buy prices or both are being affected by an npc's happiness. If buy prices are to be affected, then how will we know what their base prices are, as these are important for documentation purposes.

Additionally, I`m concerned as to the nature of this system. It would seem as though that the main goal of this mechanic is to thwart those tiny prison houses built out of platforms that you'll see some people build. Although I personally do not like these, I can understand their appeal (especially for the fact that they look kinda funny) and I find them a quite creative solution to needing housing for npcs within a short time frame (though this creativity has been worn away by mass use).

I am confident that however this mechanic ends up, that it will be an enjoyable one. I am only concerned that it could potentially penalize creativity.


Also, the pylons are looking gorgeous. I love the look of them.
 

Nicol Bolas

Terrarian
There are no newly imposed hard limits on NPC assignment here. But some previously optimal things will no longer be optimal.

OK, sure. But should they? Why should the new "optimal" now become quite inconvenient for the player?

NPCs are a game mechanic; they're a mechanism that allows the player access to certain vital goods. You can hang whatever face you like off of them, but at the end of the day, they exist to give the player the ability to get stuff. Indeed, if you took NPCs out, money would basically be worthless.

It is most convenient for me as a player to be able to easily access NPCs to acquire those vital goods. Being able to recall home to a base and quickly reach the 4-6 important NPCs is incredibly convenient as a player.

So... why am I being inconvenienced by this game mechanic? What do I gain as a player by having a choice between making my access to a specific NPC much less convenient and making my money much less efficient?

Yes, the Pylon system makes this tolerable, but it's still a two-stage teleport. I recall back to base, then pick the town I really meant to go to. And I hope I remember which NPCs are in which towns.

The mechanic just seems so confused. NPCs exist to allow you to get stuff, but spreading them out makes getting stuff harder. That just doesn't make sense from a game design perspective.

I just don't understand what players gain by having this mechanic in the game. I mean yes, the game does offer rewards for following the rules, but the rewards are mainly an excuse to justify the rules. This feature seems completely backwards.

It's not encouraging players to play in a fun way; it's encouraging players to play in an inconvenient way.

So I don't buy the notion that this is like removing other forms of "optimization". Item duplication, for example, devalues collecting items, so removing it restores the value of finding more of a thing. These rules devalue player convenience... for what? A bunch of features you could have given us anyway?
 
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majora_787

Duke Fishron
I am kinda iffy about these changes, and I have a few questions.

Usually in a play through, Ill make a fancy house for myself and a few crucial npcs, and then I'll build an arena with the Dryad and Nurse. Now im sure that the Nurse wont be cranking up the prices like mad and the Dryad will suddenly stop using her AoE, but for other npcs that would prefer to be around them, to what degree are they affected, and how many requirements need to be met so that I ensure I`m at least getting the pylons and good enough prices? What constitutes a crowded space, one that is small in terms of blocks, or one where many houses are close next to each other? I`m also confused as to whether sell prices, buy prices or both are being affected by an npc's happiness. If buy prices are to be affected, then how will we know what their base prices are, as these are important for documentation purposes.

Additionally, I`m concerned as to the nature of this system. It would seem as though that the main goal of this mechanic is to thwart those tiny prison houses built out of platforms that you'll see some people build. Although I personally do not like these, I can understand their appeal (especially for the fact that they look kinda funny) and I find them a quite creative solution to needing housing for npcs within a short time frame (though this creativity has been worn away by mass use).

I am confident that however this mechanic ends up, that it will be an enjoyable one. I am only concerned that it could potentially penalize creativity.


Also, the pylons are looking gorgeous. I love the look of them.
As far as I can tell, nothing about what is considered a valid house is changing. NPCs seem to just be responding to what other NPCs live within a certain radius, and also to how many NPCs live in that radius. I don't think the goal is to thwart the hotel / prison building style, but more to incentivize building across the world in exchange for price cuts and very early teleporters.

As for buy/sell price, I assume it works the same way the Discount Card does, only affecting the buy price of the services but NOT the sell price.
 

Derunih

Steampunker
Now that I have seen that there is a price penalty for "unhappiness", I think I'm against this too... Unless it caps really low, like 1.5x the price. Rewarding diverse gameplay is good: Punishing gameplay people find better is never good. Spreading the NPCs out to 7+ biomes to get 7+ pylons should be incentive enough. I burn through far to much platinum on the goblin as it is.

Also, I actually liked having a large town of npcs in one fortress. It made it feel like a large, social community. Now I have to exile poor NPCs. If NPCs can use the pylons too during the day, to make it actually feel like they aren't banished, I'd reconsider.

Last nitpick: I hated having to find ways to keep enemies from teleporting in, or from just phasing/digging through the walls. If we can protect the towns more reliably, and actually make safe havens, that would be welcome. The wall-defying enemies is usually only an issue during events though, but I can imagine a pigron just ducking in to my underground town and murdering everyone.

THAT SAID: I like the basic idea. Pylons are cool. NPC happiness is cool. Most of my nitpicks are a matter of preference... Aside from the price hike, since I felt they were high already, unless you set up an automated farm of some variety.
 

majora_787

Duke Fishron
Now that I have seen that there is a price penalty for "unhappiness", I think I'm against this too... Unless it caps really low, like 1.5x the price. Rewarding diverse gameplay is good: Punishing gameplay people find better is never good. Spreading the NPCs out to 7+ biomes to get 7+ pylons should be incentive enough. I burn through far to much platinum on the goblin as it is.

Also, I actually liked having a large town of npcs in one fortress. It made it feel like a large, social community. Now I have to exile poor NPCs. If NPCs can use the pylons too during the day, to make it actually feel like they aren't banished, I'd reconsider.

Last nitpick: I hated having to find ways to keep enemies from teleporting in, or from just phasing/digging through the walls. If we can protect the towns more reliably, and actually make safe havens, that would be welcome. The wall-defying enemies is usually only an issue during events though, but I can imagine a pigron just ducking in to my underground town and murdering everyone.

THAT SAID: I like the basic idea. Pylons are cool. NPC happiness is cool. Most of my nitpicks are a matter of preference... Aside from the price hike, since I felt they were high already, unless you set up an automated farm of some variety.

Admittedly I feel like letting NPCs use pylons would be way more of a mistake than it sounds like. With enough pylons (like half a dozen), you'd have no idea where anyone is at any given time. The Guide would probably end up in hell and summon the wall of flesh on his own and shut the pylons down for a week.
 

Gragma

Terrarian
Please at least give us the option to enable/disable this in a given world. I make nice, cozy houses for my NPCs, I like having them all in one central base. I don't do it because it's convenient, I do it because I feel a sense of progression as my base grows larger and larger. I do not want to create a series of outposts around the world. I do not understand why developers cant be content with people enjoying their game unless they are playing it a specific way. This change just seems stupid, If I wanted to do stupid bull:red: like this I would load up Stardew Valley instead of Terraria.
Well to be fair its not a requirement to be able use NPCs, its just an option if you want to get lower prices and pylons.
 
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