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Expand Your Terraria Empire - Pylons, Town Building, and NPC Happiness

Wintar

Duke Fishron
I feel like the main root of the discourse here is the increase in prices. Which, again, we don't know. So how can we possibly judge it without knowing?
Of course, it's the only negative change in the whole post. I would say everything related to "make NPC's happy to lower prices and get pylons" is 100% 'good'.

And I also would love to hear any info on the price changes (even if it's just "less than x%" or "not much"), but we haven't gotten that, and I don't expect to hear anything, either.

As of now, the potential price increase is between 101% and ∞%, so I'm not considering it in my current thoughts, yet.
 

Enix

Official Terrarian
I feel like the main root of the discourse here is the increase in prices. Which, again, we don't know. So how can we possibly judge it without knowing?
Of course, it's the only negative change in the whole post. I would say everything related to "make NPC's happy to lower prices and get pylons" is 100% 'good'.

And I also would love to hear any info on the price changes (even if it's just "less than x%" or "not much"), but we haven't gotten that, and I don't expect to hear anything, either.

As of now, the potential price increase is between 101% and ∞%, so I'm not considering it in my current thoughts, yet.
AcKsHuAlLy
the potential price increase is technically between 100.000...001% and ∞%
 

Wintar

Duke Fishron
AcKsHuAlLy
the potential price increase is technically between 100.000...001% and ∞%
I know you're joking here, but I did consider adding the technically correct way of saying ">100%" but I was lazy. (Apparently not lazy enough to skip using the proper infinity symbol...)


NPCs getting unhappy, huh? Well, there's always lava... :merchantgrin:
Ah, yes. The final solution to the NPC's unhappiness.
 

Derunih

Steampunker
I finally checked Steam as to when I started playing: Dec 2, 2011. The day after 1.1 first launched. I thought I was way later than that, so count me pleasantly nostalgic from 8.5 years of memories!

The reason I'm so against the unhappiness mechanic is because I have been developing my way of digging for that time, my way of fighting, and my way of building. It's not the best, but it's mine. Having more creative ways of doing it getting a reward is fine, welcome even. Getting even a 1% penalty for "playing the game wrong" after 8 years... It's a sandbox game. How you build is up to you, by definition.

If I can keep my un-creative 250-block tall monolithic tower, just by changing who is in what room, I'll be happy. I'm not particularly attached to the order of the bedrooms, after all. But I have 8 years of memories with the layout, so punishing that would feel like they are telling me to grow artistic sense, or leave.
 

HuwuM

Terrarian
There are some things i was hoping they change in 1.4, AI mechanics and usable furniture's.

I want the npc to be able to go up and down on a platform so they can walk around on their house, (like come on it's your house)
1. the npc gets stuck above the platform because they went up the stairs and cant go down
2. the npc cant jump up on a platform
3. some furniture are useless like bathtub, bench, piano, sofa, bed

like maybe let the npc to use those furniture or something
Our builds just looks kinda boring without these feature and the npc can only stays on the first floor or second floor:sigh::sigh:
 

Carisei

Official Terrarian
I wanted to continue with my earlier feedback, particular to add an example of the type of build I'm concerned will be effected by this, as I've used it as a reference in a couple post.
The left of the image is a desert outpost I've built, the right is a skeleton of just the npc houses. Both of them are 2 3x10 and 2 10x3 minimum houses arranged together to make a larger building.
buildexample.png

The right is what many would refer to as NPC prisons, among other terms. Basic boxes you slap together in a few minutes so NPCs have somewhere to move into.
The left is something that took me time to build, testing and trying various blocks, furniture, paint, ect. It's something I'm still actively working on as part of my basing world that's full of similar types of builds. I prefer to work with these smaller houses, and I like to combine multiple NPC homes to make facilities and outpost through my worlds.

It's this that has me concerned about the unhappiness, particularly the "overcrowding" thing sounds like something this might end up impacting, that I'll no longer be able to do what I enjoy to do without having the game penalize me for it.
I can hope the Devs have already taken into consideration when making this feature that people do build creatively like this and not only use it to box NPCs away. And if not that mine, and countless other's feedback about this doesn't fall on deaf ears.

I do look forward to the new stuff, NPC towns, not having enemies swarms killing me and the NPCs constantly, and Pylons to connect my outpost assuming my builds are capable of getting the NPCs happy enough for that. So thank you for those.
 

Pokenar

Official Terrarian
I finally checked Steam as to when I started playing: Dec 2, 2011. The day after 1.1 first launched. I thought I was way later than that, so count me pleasantly nostalgic from 8.5 years of memories!

The reason I'm so against the unhappiness mechanic is because I have been developing my way of digging for that time, my way of fighting, and my way of building. It's not the best, but it's mine. Having more creative ways of doing it getting a reward is fine, welcome even. Getting even a 1% penalty for "playing the game wrong" after 8 years... It's a sandbox game. How you build is up to you, by definition.

If I can keep my un-creative 250-block tall monolithic tower, just by changing who is in what room, I'll be happy. I'm not particularly attached to the order of the bedrooms, after all. But I have 8 years of memories with the layout, so punishing that would feel like they are telling me to grow artistic sense, or leave.
Not sure why you're bringing up start time, I started May 16th, 2011, when the game first (officially) launched, been building the same old apartment-style box for 9 years, but I have no real issue just moving my boxes elsewhere.

This isn't to say you're not allowed your opinion, or you can't feel a certain way, just didn't like how you tried to play the old-player card.
 

Derunih

Steampunker
This isn't to say you're not allowed your opinion, or you can't feel a certain way, just didn't like how you tried to play the old-player card.
That's fair. Just because I have been around for a while, does not make me "more valid" or anything. Players views are equally valid from 8 years playing, 1 year playing, or 1 month playing, after all. The main reason I mentioned how long I have been part of Terraria was to show why I got attached to the layout, to try and explain why I'm being so personally invested in it.
And, most importantly: Just because I'm an old player, that does not make me a good player :p
 

Immrnoob

Terrarian
I think its super cooooooooooooooooooooool and i cant wait for the pylons!!!:naughty::pinky: oh and its almost on my birthday as well!!!



 

Heroman3003

Retinazer
I really like the idea of NPCs finally being actual NPCs and not just exchange counters. Honestly, all those 'horrific downsides' people brought up are barely relevant IMO, since money is not an issue at all except for like few buys, and even then its simple to acquire. It can be tight in early game... But in early game you'd have to try really hard to trigger the UNhappiness conditions from what I could gather, since only thing that makes them unhappy that we know of is 'too many other NPCs'.

I also heavily suspect that the V will not have too much effect unless you're unlucky enough to have it go straight through your jungle house or something. Because in terms of technicalities, as far as I'm aware, altered desert/tundra/underground/beach still do count as desert/tundra/underground/beach, but also double as alteration they were given. So only place where NPC happiness could be affected by that will be the forest biome.

My bigger worry is that most towns regardless of where they are built (except forest/pre-hardmode tundra) are nearly non-viable unless you have enough NPCs to stop the enemy spawning. And what I'm worried about is "will there be at least 3 NPCs per pylon-awarding biome to allow actual town status to each of your bases?". The screenshots clearly show Underground, Forest and Tundra pylons. Ocean one is also mentioned. Two more 'obvious' ones are jungle and desert. But from there I'm getting unsure at what biomes will be relevant and what won't. Amount of NPCs in the game should cover all those biomes, but if there are more obscure pylons, I find it hard to believe we can have all the 'pylon bases' be protected with town status. Though I will give the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe some NPCs will not even have biome preference? Painter seems like obvious one in that regard, if that will be happening, with way he likes to paint every type of landscape.

Overall, I really like this and feel like this is a step in right direction. Will also be extra encouraging in terms of getting biome-exclusive items from NPCs like Witch Doctor. I myself used to put off building anything except the Box Hotel and bridges/arenas mostly because it felt like it would be better saved for later after most of progression of the game is done with, but some actual, yet non-intrusive encouragement to building feels nice. Honestly, so far this feature was one of the most exciting things to be awaiting in the update, on par with total rebalance and bestiary.

EDIT: Additional little thing: Does the "Town" status block all normal enemy spawns INCLUDING the spreading biome spawns? IIRC currently the NPCs ingame don't block those, which is part of why I'm kinda worried about spreading base out. One thing I really want to avoid is NPCs dying for no reason.
 
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Maxxamillion6

Terrarian
I was super worried about this until they mentioned the pylons at the end *phew

I did not fancy walking to all these npc towns
 

Redknight910

Official Terrarian
I like this idea, and it works perfectly with the idea me and some friends had, when the update drops, we're starting a new world and were each gonna claim a biome. This makes this even more viable and interesting. Looking forward to the update more every day.
 

inaire

Terrarian
um Dev's.... you said "Of course you don't HAVE to partake in this new system, " and you also said "
What Happens if my NPCs are Happy/Unhappy? "

  • " NPC Shop prices will adjust based upon how happy each NPC is at the time " Which is it? Can I not participate or will I be punished by higher prices? I would like some clarification.... I hear prices vary when happy or unhappy.. and I hear I dont have to partake in this new system. Um if everything is higher priced... Aren't I already participating whether I want to or not?
 

ShadowTiger

Duke Fishron
It's this that has me concerned about the unhappiness, particularly the "overcrowding" thing sounds like something this might end up impacting, that I'll no longer be able to do what I enjoy to do without having the game penalize me for it.
I can hope the Devs have already taken into consideration when making this feature that people do build creatively like this and not only use it to box NPCs away. And if not that mine, and countless other's feedback about this doesn't fall on deaf ears.
If these empty prison boxes are the main concern, a simple solution to that is to also take into consideration every nearby "decoration" of any variety, or the variety of walls that are taken into account. If the rooms are tiny but look nice, that should offset an unhappiness metric to avoid cramping peoples' style. It's easy to just throw paintings or platforms with books into a tiny, tiny room and then call it a Manhattan studio apartment for $2,600 a month. :-3 Heh.
 

Enix

Official Terrarian
I finally checked Steam as to when I started playing: Dec 2, 2011. The day after 1.1 first launched. I thought I was way later than that, so count me pleasantly nostalgic from 8.5 years of memories!

The reason I'm so against the unhappiness mechanic is because I have been developing my way of digging for that time, my way of fighting, and my way of building. It's not the best, but it's mine. Having more creative ways of doing it getting a reward is fine, welcome even. Getting even a 1% penalty for "playing the game wrong" after 8 years... It's a sandbox game. How you build is up to you, by definition.

If I can keep my un-creative 250-block tall monolithic tower, just by changing who is in what room, I'll be happy. I'm not particularly attached to the order of the bedrooms, after all. But I have 8 years of memories with the layout, so punishing that would feel like they are telling me to grow artistic sense, or leave.
I have been playing on Steam since August 27, 2013, and on Console/Mobile for about a year and a half before that. I too have developed my own ways of doing things after playing this game for over four thousand three hundred hours. My ways are not the best either, but they are functionally practical. Getting a 1% (or even 10%) penalty for ""playing the game wrong"" (it's not playing the game wrong, it's mistreating the NPCs inside the game) after 8 years is a wonderful change. Yes, how you build is up to you. You can literally build your NPC towers and be just fine, except you will have unhappy NPCs because you're giving them poor living conditions. If you want to put in the tiniest bit of effort to make your NPCs happier with better living conditions (that, for the thousandth time, have ZERO relation to your artistic capabilities), then you will get lower prices.

The requirements to get happy NPCs are as follows
Do not overcrowd them (we do not know what this means or what it takes to make an NPC unhappy with it)
Do not place them next to NPCs they do not like (we do not know the radius in which an NPC will be unhappy from a disliked neighbor)
Do not place them in a biome which they do not like (we do not know what NPCs will like what biome, nor how many biomes an NPC will like)

There are three basic requirements to getting a maxed out happy NPC.

...

So anyways let's look at housing requirements, yeah?

Must have a light source.
Must have a chair.
Must have a table.
Must have a 2x3 area unobstructed by foreground blocks that may not be directly adjacent to either of the 2 side walls of the house.
Must have one solid, non-platform block for the NPC to stand on at night.
Must have at least one entrance.
Must have background walls.
Must not be too small (over 60 total tiles).
Must not be too large (less than 750 tiles).
Must not be located within a Crimson or Corruption biome.

So if you think having a happy NPC is punishing to those with certain playstyles, what about players who just want to build an NPC prison out of 2x3 houses with no furniture? Is the game punishing certain player's playstyles by having so many housing restrictions? What about players who want to make an absolutely massive room with tons of detail and furniture and things to do for an NPC that's over 750 blocks? Is the game punishing them by not allowing an NPC to reside there? Is the game punishing people who want to have their NPCs live in an Evil Biome? Is this punishing people who want to make a large open cave with no door as a house for their demolitionist? What about people who hate their Angler and want to shove him into a tiny trashcan house? What about people who want to give the Dryad a big open nature reserve house but can't because they have no walls? Is the game actively punishing them for straight up preventing their creation from being titled a house until they fulfill every single requirement of a house?

Of course it isn't punishing them! It's simple game mechanics so that there is balance! Yes, housing requirements makes certain house styles completely impossible, but people like it since it's balanced and makes sense and easy to work around! What's wrong with having a slight increase in price for not fulfilling a single one of the requirements for this new mechanic? It's surely much less of a punishment than "Your NPCs literally cannot live here if a single one of these requirements is not met." There is literally nothing to complain about. You're literally being given TELEPORTERS pre-hardmode without having to do any wiring which takes forever, just for meeting 3 basic requirements. Don't want to meet them? Just enjoy your slightly increased prices and be glad the game still allows you to play just fine with your playstyle, because you literally can do so just fine. You act as if ReLogic just made up this concept with absolutely no planning and no concern for the fact that 30,000,000 people have bought their game. They're going to make it just fine, and if it really truly somehow does end up being unbalanced, the community will tell them "Hey, this is a little unbalanced in our opinions" and they'll be like "Okay, let's ramp it down a little bit" because theyre RELOGIC. And if the community likes it and you do not, you can just get a mod since the game has official tmodloader support from the steam workshop.

You've been able to adapt to having to meet all 10 housing requirements in order to make your houses, I PROMISE you that you'll be able to manage adapting to 3 (not even required) conditions to make an NPC happy.
 
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