Expand Your Terraria Empire - Pylons, Town Building, and NPC Happiness

Heroman3003 said:
Or you can just not see it as "being forced" to do things but rather punishment for not doing things the optimal way. Yes, you can still do things, you just won't be as well off as you would have been if you put in effort into optimizing. Just like some things in game over time get nerfed or buffed over the course of updates, having all your NPCs stacked in two screen's worth of space has now been nerfed. And "builds like that are impossible" is worst argument ever. It IS optional. Just because there is penalty doesn't stop it from being optional. It's as optional as playing Expert mode. You'll have easier time doing whatever you want, but you will overall get worse rates and some content will be forever locked. Plus, once again, there is such a thing as negligible or near-negligible punishments. Honestly, cost increase is good way to do it because it won't actually affect that much at all, unless you just want to complain about the fact that the increase itself is just there, regardless of whether it has ability to actually make noticable impact or not.
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They didn't make normal mode drop rates worse when they added expert mode just to push people to play expert.

How can you say the increase won't be noticeable at all if you don't even know how much it is as the devs have refused to clarify. If they they really intended for an unnoticeable change, they wouldn't have added anything in the first place, it is clearly meant to be noticeable and to push you to build towns "all over the map" as Redigit wants, at the cost of being allowed to build creatively.
 
Heroman3003 said:
having all your NPCs stacked in two screen's worth of space has now been nerfed.
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But why? Why is that a problem and if it's such a problem then why has it taken nearly a decade to fix it?
Heroman3003 said:
Plus, once again, there is such a thing as negligible or near-negligible punishments.
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I think people are assuming that the punishment must be more than just negligible because if the price increase is negligible then why bother having a punishment at all. People will just ignore it and continue how they always have.
 
Kebab said:
They didn't make normal mode drop rates worse when they added expert mode just to push people to play expert.

How can you say the increase won't be noticeable at all if you don't even know how much it is as the devs have refused to clarify. If they they really intended for an unnoticeable change, they wouldn't have added anything in the first place, it is clearly meant to be noticeable and to push you to build towns "all over the map" as Redigit wants, at the cost of being allowed to build creatively.
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This. The same can be said about fishing: although we can still mine all the ore we want, fishing has been used as an alternative to spare the hassle, especially in the hardmode. And they didn't need to make it even worse just to encourage us to try fishing: there are a lot of advantages other than the ore rewards, and neither style of playing had to suffer a penalty.
 
Ok, this is one idea i can 1000% get behind.
Also those gem trees are beautiful. I see a sapling, so that's cool. Are the gems equal to acorns? that's my idea of how it works.
This is by far the best game update i have ever seen. (Mayyyybe the Nether update, but still better.:dryadwink:)
 
Some of y'all really need to tell me your secrets for getting rich in Hard Mode. I'm always poor as hell throughout the entire game. Is it that perhaps you never use the Goblin Tinkerer? Even by selling ores, bars, accessories, and equipment I don't use anymore am I able to reach decent amounts of money. Or rather, I do, but then the damn Goblin ends up eating all of it because he doesn't like giving me good modifiers.

This is exactly why I was complaining about the price increase before; money is always scarce in my playthroughs, and now it's going to be even more. But by now I don't really care; I can't change the developers' mind as I'm a single player lumped into the minority group. I'm just going to wait for a mod that removes the punishment and continue to play as I've always played.
 
Ihus said:
Some of y'all really need to tell me your secrets for getting rich in Hard Mode.
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One way is to farm the Pumpkin Moon. You don't even need to get to the late levels to rake in tons of loot to sell.

Any of the events, really.
 
Ihus said:
Some of y'all really need to tell me your secrets for getting rich in Hard Mode. I'm always poor as hell throughout the entire game. Is it that perhaps you never use the Goblin Tinkerer? Even by selling ores, bars, accessories, and equipment I don't use anymore am I able to reach decent amounts of money. Or rather, I do, but then the damn Goblin ends up eating all of it because he doesn't like giving me good modifiers.

This is exactly why I was complaining about the price increase before; money is always scarce in my playthroughs, and now it's going to be even more. But by now I don't really care; I can't change the developers' mind as I'm a single player lumped into the minority group. I'm just going to wait for a mod that removes the punishment and continue to play as I've always played.
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Consider too using the gold flask or gold bullets and just going to town on a boss. That ring you make from the pirate drops is a big help too. Pre hardmode a good way to make money is to fight the Brain/Eater over and over and sell all the drops. Post WoF up till you defeat planter you can do the same thing with hallowed bars from the mech bosses. After you can make the moon medal you're better off using the hallowed bars like what Tunnel King said.

Speaking of gold bullets and flasks, why aren't there gold stealing options for summoning and magic as well?
 
Okay so I wanted to ask a question and made an account for this sole purpose, namely, while a lot of people are concerned about pricing, how exactly do you acquire pylons? Are you just given them the second you have three happy npcs? Are they bought? Do they require crafting? How hard are they to craft? I don't want it put in a ton of effort only for it to turn out to be really hard or late game to craft this. I can live with a price increase, but a lack of access to my npcs for say early game would be really really hard to deal with on a large world if pylons are difficult to acquire.

Edit: To clarify my opinion further, it's not that I am 'willing to put up with the price increase' I actually like this price change a lot. I've wanted NPC happiness and while I wish there was bonuses like 'preferred furniture set' and 'has comfort items' in their rooms, this is a good way to handle it.
 
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Gem trees, diamond bunnies, 2 new modes, chronomancy, new biomes and music, npcs acquiring feelings, base to base teleporting without relying on steampunker and a boatload of time consuming wire placement, e-sports in bed, furniture with function that aren't crafting stations, tmod loader support so my friends can't complain about trying to set it up, block swapping, kite flying, skyware trees, pink trees... :dryadgrin:

only things I can think to ask for is one type of main pylon that can be placed at spawn rather than at a biome with npcs, to act as a hub teleporter for players new to the server and/or not using beds to change the spawns, and a way to convert certain biomes to a more benign but still aesthetically pleasing variant like how mushroom grass will make some really powerful enemies even when there are 20+ npcs and peace candles all over, or like how corruption blocks has its own fanbase but some don't want the enemies to annoy them... praise be the purple cubes. :dryadnaughty: Like how in the Calamity mod there are lore items that have passive effects while being in your inventory, what if there was an item that made mobs of a biome ignore you (but still be present) by sitting in your inventory, or like a stationary buff, or special clentaminator solution or something. please not like the royal jelly because as much as I'd like to hug the local slime population it takes an accessory slot and that basically prevents me from using it. :dryadcry:

also, being so close to release i suspect this won't see any attention but... multi-biomes that aren't underground infection biomes? like, crimson ocean having elements of both biomes in the background and possibly music, or when you find gravel and marble biomes right next to eachother, or when you find the jungle biome just above the lava of the underworld. If I had a hybrid biome of mushroom grass and corruption, I'd probably get so hyped I'd die. :dryadnaughty: :dryadpassionate: Might have to make my own mod for that one if I can teach myself how.

<3 amazing work
 
The tears are so delicious!
I kinda hope the price penalty is like 5000%

Devs, its your game, do what you want with it to make it suit your vision. You guys (and gal) know best.

Apparently your vision was to incentivize people to make several fun builds using different materials in many biomes! It sounds much more awesome than a crappy box hotel in the intro spawn point.

And @Redigit. Your price hike joke was hilarious. Don't go all PC for the leg-shaving dudes that complain. Seeing them get their panties twisted cracks me up.
The internet isn't the glorious place it used to be. Folks nowadays have the emotional fortitude of a sheet of wet toilet paper.
 
It seems the most common issue people have is "punishment" for building any different way. I would assume that "NPC Shop prices will adjust based upon how happy each NPC is at the time" means the old/current prices are the base and it only gets better from there. Depending on your point of view that is still "punishment for playing suboptimally" but I personally don't mind it that much, as long as it only affects prices and not actual items in stock (already not really a fan of how leaf wings and blue solution works but you don't need to buy those that often). Mostly because I way prefer to have a nice hotel-like-complex with everything I need in actual reach.
What I do find odd though: the term Towns? I thought the idea would be to build a nice "town". You know, multiple houses, many people and such. Not spreading diverse couples all across the map :D
I really do like the idea of pylons though. I don't know that I would use them towards endgame, since I like to build a big central teleporter hub connected to all places across the world but for pre-hard mode it surely helps.

Also:
shamurai7 said:
The tears are so delicious!
I kinda hope the price penalty is like 5000%

Devs, its your game, do what you want with it to make it suit your vision. You guys (and gal) know best.

Apparently your vision was to incentivize people to make several fun builds using different materials in many biomes! It sounds much more awesome than a crappy box hotel in the intro spawn point.

And @Redigit. Your price hike joke was hilarious. Don't go all PC for the leg-shaving dudes that complain. Seeing them get their panties twisted cracks me up.
The internet isn't the glorious place it used to be. Folks nowadays have the emotional fortitude of a sheet of wet toilet paper.
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That comment is just so deliciously wild and overblown it needs to be appreciated :D
 
Y'know, I thought this was a neat new thing at first, but the people raising objections do have a point.

This isn't a lazy block of prison cells:

Terraria - Victory Hall original.png


I put in some effort getting the Steampunker and the Mechanic to be roomies because I thought it was appropriate and cute. The Goblin's across the hall, and below him, the Demolitionist and the Arms Dealer share a firing range. The Nurse is on hand to handle the inevitable emergencies when they blow themselves up. I built accessways specifically so they could all get to each other.

It amuses me to tell these kinds of stories in my head as I build. I'm not sure how spaced-out wooden boxes would be better.

I'm still not opposed to the pylons and NPC happiness, in fact I think they're rather a good addition to the game, and I can certainly come up with new builds to work with the new mechanics, but I don't like the idea of being precluded from a build that might occur to me.

@Kebab, @ShadowTiger, and @Ilmarinen suggested furniture as an additional happiness mechanic to compensate for less than ideal biomes or living space. I like that idea. You could add a number of factors: the Dryad might get a morale boost out of having at some living plants nearby, herbs, an actual tree, or a sunflower, or at least some living wood/leaf blocks. The Goblin and Mechanic and Steampunker would like mechanisms, presumably, especially if they're wired up, and Cog stuff. The Arms Dealer would like guns on weapon display stands. Painter, paintings; the Wizard, magic weapons, especially books; the Cyborg, maybe Martian blocks and weapons; the Merchant and Tax Collector, piles of coins; the Clothier, dressed-up mannequins, and so on. They could have color preferences.

There's no need to discard happiness, or even eliminate the penalty. Just add a few more ways to achieve the same goal, all of which can compensate for each other, so creativity is rewarded rather than inhibited.
 
It all goes back to being able to play how you want to play. Sometimes the tools are in your hands, (The new Journey Mode creative tools.) sometimes the tools are in the developer's hands, (I.e. forcing a price hike in their own game which is perfectly justified.) and sometimes you have to make your own tools to play how you want to play.

The latter includes tModLoader and CheatSheet / HERO's mod, or even a game trainer or some other method of acquiring additional benefits. I personally have about a hundred thousand Platinum coins about two minutes after starting a fresh world and new character with only a single tool. I choose to do that in single player games and not in multiplayer modes because I don't want to be a :red: to people, but I also don't like to grind for money when I'm by myself. It doesn't mean I don't support the developers in deciding things about their own game.

It's still perfectly fine to present an argument in a peaceful, detailed, and optimistic way. Pros and Cons lists usually help give your words credibility because you clearly care enough to think about things from all points of view.

So that's why I'm very much in favor of having additional ways to reduce this price hike if the NPC's guidelines technically become violated even if to a human being like you or I, their homes look utterly beautiful despite being "overcrowded."

But, of course, I'm not a programmer, and I have no idea how difficult such a thing would be to accomplish.

I think all it would take is a Developer to come forward and say "Yeah, that might be difficult. Sorry, but for now, after a tremendous amount of thought, we found this current method to be the most balanced. We'll see how it goes for 1.4's release."
 
I've always wanted to live underground, but it was always more trouble then it was worth trying to deal with the likes of Worms, Bone Serpents, Tim, & other such like that...

Curiosity: Will it be part of the Town System to build a House & hang the Player's Banner in it to flag it as the Players's House?

Also, in 1.4, will it still be a certainty that the Mechanic & the Goblin Tinkerer have the hots for each other, making them very natural choices for 'live together NPCs'? (I really could imagine the Terraria Devs spending part of 1.4 Retconning their Love Relationship into a 'Mortal Nemesis' Relationship, just to ROFL on the Floor at us Players falling into a huge Schmuck Bait Trap of their making for the LULs... if not just plain to Troll us... :p )

Edit: Oh, also, wonder if Meteor Falls will still troll attempts to build anything trying to be habitable in the outer 2/3rds of the Surface Map till a fake Meteor Biome shield is built, or if this will stop being a thing...?

Also, I really can't quit wondering if Journey Worlds will be allowed to have legit access to Cute Fishron...?
 
As I read through these updates (out of order) it occurs to me that Journey mode is probably just the thing for the aesthetic builders who are concerned the new happiness system. Since you'll be able to create items for free, it sounds like any worries about prices will be a thing of the past.
 
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