Blue_M4ge🌳
Moon Lord
Tbf leaf wings needed to be nerfed, they were too good for how easy they were to get
Waaaah, devs don't let me exploit oversights anymore!
I never actually used the reaver shark, tbh. I fish for the Angler and that's about it. Why stand with a fishing rod when you could be killing things for their drops instead?
That being said, it was a nice little quirk you know? Something cool you could find if you knew how. A little speedrunning trick, a skip for the seasoned veteran. Because having to hack down the BoC and EoW every single world you start, assuming you were the kind of person who made lots of worlds? It was harmless. Why not just make it harder to obtain, require specific bait? Chum shows that that kind of tomfoolery is possible. Having a way to skip bosses isn't a bad thing in of itself, and sticking to a dev vision of how a sandbox game is meant to be played... doesn't... really jive all that well with the idea of a sandbox game in the first place.
To put it another way, why shouldn't creative workarounds to game challenges be allowed to exist?
Not only the shark. Stuff like lasers not passing trough blocks. The shark was just bad design. Imo they should've made it a hardmode drop instead. It makes no sense to have a second Gold pick. Instead make it a hardmode pre-altar pick.While I always thought the Reaver Shark was a bad idea and I think it's the developer's right to change it, you can't call something an "oversight" when it passed through seven different revisions of the game unchanged.
This isn't correcting an "oversight;" this is saying, "that exploit we deliberately added to the game that people exploited for half a decade? Yeah, we really shouldn't have done that."
Not only the shark. Stuff like lasers not passing trough blocks. The shark was just bad design. Imo they should've made it a hardmode drop instead. It makes no sense to have a second Gold pick. Instead make it a hardmode pre-altar pick.
Because it's not especially creative.
This isn't like hoiking, which was a "mechanic" created by an arbitrary interaction of probably disparate pieces of code that has tons of varied uses. It's not like building an arena for a boss, which often involves understanding the boss's behavior and devising clever solutions to take advantage of their movement patterns. This isn't even like using explosives to quickly get to Shadow Orbs/Crimson Hearts without the appropriate pickaxe.
You do the thing, you get to skip to Hardmode. "The thing" isn't even hard to do: you get a rod, you get some bait, you go to a place, and stand there, waiting for the right thing to appear. There's nothing clever or creative about it. It may take a while, but it's not intellectually challenging or physically demanding.
Veterans already have a way to skip to Hardmode: bring a Nightmare Pickaxe from another world. It's simple and effective, and it is no less clever than "go fishing in the ocean". The only difference between that and the old Reaver Shark is that some people have defined this as "cheating." Even though it doesn't involve any manipulation of the game itself.
As for requiring a specific bait, well... how do you get that bait? Where would it be located, or what would drop it? The principle reason why people want the thing is to avoid playing pre-Hardmode. So if this bait is at all intensive to find (a rare item in the Cavern layer, for example), then you may as well just play pre-Hardmode normally.
And TBH if I'm just going to bring stuff from an existing world, why not just bring some endgame gear and a guide voodoo doll, drill down and kill the WoF for instant hardmode world?
the idea of there being ways to skip bosses if you know how is one that should be encouraged for the reasons discussed.
Because you want to experience pre-Hardmode play? Because you want to get to know your world before the infections start setting in? Because you want to harvest things from the pre-Hardmode worlds before Hardmode enemies take over everywhere?
Before Journey Mode, when I started a new world, I always gave myself a Gold Pickaxe and Axe, so I wouldn't have to deal with ultra-slow mining speeds. But I didn't give myself a Nightmare Pickaxe, because that breaks progression. I gave myself a Mirror because seriously, how can you play Terraria without one. But I didn't give myself even a basic grappling hook, because I felt that this was part of game progression.
It's not hard to decide for yourself what parts of the game you want to experience and what parts you don't. And there is a tool for doing that: dropping off higher-tier stuff in a virgin world. There does not need to be a mechanic in a virgin world to skip a single part of progression.
Imagine there was a Terraria 1.2.4 without the Reaver Shark. Now imagine that 1.4.0 added the Reaver Shark as it currently exists.
Can you honestly say you would be making the same argument? That this newly added item should be buffed to the point where you can mine Hellstone?
After all, this entire discussion is really, really specific. I don't see posts saying that the developers should encourage players to have alternate ways to enter Hardmode without killing the WoF. I don't see posts saying that the developers should add ways to summon Plantera without killing the Mech bosses. I don't see posts saying that the developers should add a way to summon the Moon Lord without even once having killed the Lunatic Cultist.
The only reason we're having this discussion at all is that it's a thing we used to be able to do.
1) The Reaver Shark change was excessive, and it is now essentially useless. Not the first useless item in Terraria, probably won't be the last even at this late stage in development. But it'd be nice if it did have a usable niche - just not the one it originally had. Mining "soft" blocks with two hits per swing was mentioned somewhere...
2) That, however, isn't as important as what the change represents. There is such a thing as someone opening a brand new world and seeing how fast they can hit Hardmode, without bringing anything in to help. From speedrunners, to people simply looking to challenge themselves, etc. Niche yes, but it's a way to play the game that the Reaver Shark exemplified. All of these are being removed or nerfed so that the game is played the way it was "meant" to be played.
3) There's always room to explore in not only the world itself, but the items you find and the ways to do something. It's always a good moment in a game when you figure out how to do something more efficiently than the "intended way", and outsmarting the game in the process - the beauty of this is that the game may not even necessarily be outsmarted! The entire eventuality could have been foreseen during development and an alternate way added to solve the problem.
That's the thing though; there isn't really room for a pickaxe that can't mine Infected blocks or Hellstone, yet is somehow better than the Gold pickaxe. I mean, would you fish up the Reaver Shark just to mine slightly faster?
Thanks DEVS for splitting the community. These changes wer not needed after 5 YEARS. Your pushing the older players away(whitch i feel is intended to get more sales since otherworld failed) all because we wer not playing by YOUR RULES. This game is dead to many of us now. GOOD JOB.
That's the thing though; there isn't really room for a pickaxe that can't mine Infected blocks or Hellstone, yet is somehow better than the Gold pickaxe. I mean, would you fish up the Reaver Shark just to mine slightly faster?
You seem to be ignoring half of the post you quoted. If the Reaver Shark never existed, would you be saying that it should exist? And if so, why aren't you saying that we shouldn't have other alternative progression methods? Nobody's saying that we should have an alternate way to activate Plantera spawning, or to activate the Hardmode dungeon or the Lunear Events.
It's only a "problem" to be "solved" because we used to be able to do it.
But fishing was the one that hit me!
I always used that in hardmode because finding the ores takes WAY TO LONG with a Crimson world! The altars spawn weirdly for me and before, they spawned all the way down the shaft! So when hardmode came, I smashed the alters and found enough Palladium/Cobalt ore for about 15 bars and I couldn't find anymore! I even went to the Jungle to search for a bunch but that didn't work! So I always used fishing in a Crimson world all the time.
However, taken in its totality with all the other nerfs, it more or less amounts to a strict enforcement of dev-intended progression, which goes against the spirit of a sandbox game
Oh...Fishing still works. What doesn't work is stockpiling a bunch of crates pre-Hardmode, then openning them all up during Hardmode. You simply have to do the stockpiling in Hardmode itself.
Seriously, gimme a break. Stop crying so dramatically. Seriously, what is wrong with people who cry about those things? "Pushing older players away? Seriously?Thanks DEVS for splitting the community. These changes wer not needed after 5 YEARS. Your pushing the older players away(whitch i feel is intended to get more sales since otherworld failed) all because we wer not playing by YOUR RULES. This game is dead to many of us now. GOOD JOB.