Game Mechanics Fledgling Wings, a Balanced Proposal.

[Toxophilite [East]]

Before I explain my proposal here, I'd just like to acknowledge that I've already seen the tier placement of the Wings be defended by the Devs on several occasions; that being the case I'd like to draw a comparison to how Power-ups work in the current build of the game, and why the placement tier of Fledgling Wings is so strange, and no-one has quite been able to place a finger on why.

For the sake of time and attention, Fledgling Wings and Flying Carpet (Pyramid Item) are closer in tier than any other comparable item(s), Floating Island vs. Pyramid. Now, for the sake of comparison, I broke the comparable items down in a 1 to 1 format and itemized them as a referance.

• Flying Carpet x Fledgling Wings
• Sandstorm in a Bottle x Shiny Red Balloon
• Pharaoh's Set x Sky Mill
• Snake Banner x Gravity Banner
• Omega Banner x World Banner
• Ankh Banner x Sun Banner
• Lucky Horseshoe Unique furniture and Blocks

As you can see, aside from a few outliers, the two mini-Biomes are very comparable, especially with the tier adjustment to Lucky Horseshoe.

So, what exactly am I getting at here? "Flying Carpet" and "Fledgling Wings" should have the same rarity, meaning, Fledgling Wings shouldn't be a guaranteed 'drop' and at most, should have the rarity of Flying Carpet and/ or Sandstorm in a Bottle. "That's it, that's the proposal".

With this very minor change, "Fledgling Wing's" tier placement will be more reasonable, and much more balanced; which accomplished several things.

1. Lucky Horseshoe retains it's relevancy in the meta.
2. Searching "Sky Islands" remains desirable, but there isn't a default "best possible item".
3. Gravitation Potion + Featherfall Potion combo remains relevant (if the Player is unlucky).
4. Bundle of Balloons retains its 1.3.5 relevancy (if the Player is unlucky), even if it's still a great item in 1.4+.
5. The alternate "Balloon Tree suggestion" via Fishing makes more sense, having it compete directly with Fledgling Wings (time investment/ Fishing vs. RNG/ sky exploration).

I could go on but... I think I've made a pretty good case here.

 

[Sir_Leaf]

I think this would be a pretty fair balance adjustment.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

I think this would be a pretty fair balance adjustment.

One of the few areas I think Terraria would benefit in is "consistency", especially considering that most times, it's examples that can be drawn-up that already exist in-game.

There's certain "gameplay beats" in Terraria that have worked well for over a decade; don't see a reason not to use some of them, changing, at least just enough to make the changes interesting.

 

[Ender_Dragon6969696969]

One of the few areas I think Terraria would benefit in is "consistency", especially considering that most times, it's examples that can be drawn-up that already exist in-game.

There's certain "gameplay beats" in Terraria that have worked well for over a decade; don't see a reason not to use some of them, changing, at least just enough to make the changes interesting.

I think this is fair.

 

[Dapling]

So, what exactly am I getting at here? "Flying Carpet" and "Fledgling Wings" should have the same rarity, meaning, Fledgling Wings shouldn't be a guaranteed 'drop' and at most, should have the rarity of Flying Carpet and/ or Sandstorm in a Bottle. "That's it, that's the proposal".

I'm not even sure what this means? Are you saying that they should just be weighted to be less common compared to the other drops?

A different point, but... why do fledgeling wings need this apparent "nerf" (I think?) in the first place? They cap your midair horizontal speed to the default due to a property called Accrunspeed (effectively rendering all movement speed buffs like Hermes boots, sunflowers, the +40% speed increase from ex. stuffed, etc. completely worthless while you're in the air) so there's actually a pretty big tradeoff for using them to begin with, especially considering how featherfall potions don't have this cap and actually have higher stats in every way (while being ridiculously cheap in comparison and not even costing an accessory slot).

1. Searching "Sky Islands" remains desirable, but there isn't a default "best possible item".

The best item is Shiny Red Balloon imo, their tinkers have a synergy with featherfall potion so powerful that you can actually eliminate the need for wings in the entire first half of hardmode (in fact some people do this, and as someone who's tried it myself I can actually see where they're coming from, all wings have the Accrunspeed property mentioned earlier, after all, and it doesn't really catch up to going wingless until about plantera tier)

Point is, considering that Fledgeling wings are more sidegrade-y in nature to begin with, as most wings are until later in the game where you have access to things like Hovering, I don't feel nerfing them is a necessary change.

 

[Shyguymask]

Starfury and Balloon are better sky island items than Fledging Wings, in general Fledging Wings are really overrated especially pre-tinkerer. It does not remotely need a nerf and it's up to the players if they want one less accessory slot when [x] in a Balloon + Spectre boots already provide more than enough movement.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

I'm not even sure what this means? Are you saying that they should just be weighted to be less common compared to the other drops?

In short, I'm suggesting Players have the same roll-chance of getting "Fledgling Wings" that they do for getting "Magic Carpet". I think I've made a pretty solid case as to why, as far as consistency is concerned; this is totally aside from something obscure in the meta. A player who doesn't know which way is up, should be introduced to both items with the same "dice roll", not discover the Wings each and every time, and realize it's the "best choice"... because currently it is.

A different point, but... why do fledgeling wings need this apparent "nerf" (I think?) in the first place?

I wouldn't call it a 'nerf', because the Wings themselves won't change if/ when you obtain them, just the rarity needs to be adjusted. The easiest way to address the change is by using the example of Magic Carpet, it's always nice to get one early, but it's not 100% guaranteed, which is how and why it retains it's charm. Again, this isn't about veteran number-crunching, consistency, consistency is the main priority here.

They cap your midair horizontal speed to the default due to a property called Accrunspeed (effectively rendering all movement speed buffs like Hermes boots, sunflowers, the +40% speed increase from ex. stuffed, etc. completely worthless while you're in the air) so there's actually a pretty big tradeoff for using them to begin with, especially considering how featherfall potions don't have this cap and actually have higher stats in every way (while being ridiculously cheap in comparison and not even costing an accessory slot).

All that is cool, but considering the current state of the game, being able to tap into Hardmode Movement Speed in pre-Hardmode is a bit much, I think. One of the biggest reasons Skeletron and Queen Bee are considered "skill check Bosses", is because your options for movement were limited, and demanded some kind of pattern recognition, and prefight strategy to overcome. With the mobility afforded to you by Fledgling Wings, or Magic Carpet (though arguably more difficult), these fights a much more 'forgiving', toppled with the fact that movement in general has been greatly improved.

None of these changes are necessarily "bad", but I'm pretty sure a slight nerf to "directional speed" for the benefit of "verticality boost" in pre-Hardmode, is a tradeoff any reasonable person would take (IJS).

The best item is Shiny Red Balloon imo, their tinkers have a synergy with featherfall potion so powerful that you can actually eliminate the need for wings in the entire first half of hardmode (in fact some people do this, and as someone who's tried it myself I can actually see where they're coming from, all wings have the Accrunspeed property mentioned earlier, after all, and it doesn't really catch up to going wingless until about plantera tier)

Perhaps, but the balance you're describing comes from the fact that Featherfall is a limited resource (which requires some planning, in-game knowledge and possibly even 'skill'), whereas Fledgling Wings are a permanent upgrade (if of course you don't trash or lose them) where skill has a very low ceiling.

Point is, considering that Fledgeling wings are more sidegrade-y in nature to begin with, as most wings are until later in the game where you have access to things like Hovering, I don't feel nerfing them is a necessary change.

I would then ask you, how would the game change in a negative way if they were "nerfed"? That's kinda the point, if they're an item you were going to ignore anyway, you're playing a "different game" already, which is in the realm of "skips" and "forced-flags", which isn't really something you consider in a balance patch, unless its "gamebreaking" (i.e. Reaver Shark, Meteorite, Crate Exploit??).

Edit 04/12/2022:

Starfury and Balloon are better sky island items than Fledging Wings, in general Fledging Wings are really overrated especially pre-tinkerer. It does not remotely need a nerf and it's up to the players if they want one less accessory slot when [x] in a Balloon + Spectre boots already provide more than enough movement.

I'd have to disagree, but I think my consistency argument is pretty tough to disagree with. However, for the sake of making a point, here's what happens when to access Fledgling Wings, and let's go as far to say that they're the first item you get...

1. Gravity is no longer a threat.
2. You gain minor access to Featherfall.
3. You get a slight boost in jumping height.
4. You get access to glide.

Sorry but no, Starfury doesn't even come close to this. The most you get is a DPS Boost, easily replaced with something else in less than 15 mins of playtime.

 

[Dreadnautilus5000🌳]

In short, I'm suggesting Players have the same roll-chance of getting "Fledgling Wings" that they do for getting "Magic Carpet". I think I've made a pretty solid case as to why, as far as consistency is concerned; this is totally aside from something obscure in the meta. A player who doesn't know which way is up, should be introduced to both items with the same "dice roll", not discover the Wing each and every time, and realize it's the "best choice"... because currently it is.

But why. Fledgling Wings are not supposed to be any kind of counterpart to Magic Carpet, this just seems like some kind of dumb connection you're making up. Stuff like the Corruption and the Crimson are supposed to be counterparts, considering they are mutually exclusive on world creation (drunk world doesn't count). Pyramids and Floating Islands are not mutually exclusive and function differently in terms of generation (pyramids aren't guaranteed in worlds whereas floating islands are and also cycle through the loot pool). This is clearly a problem with how Pyramids generate and how you are locked out of them on that world, not a problem with floating islands at all.

I wouldn't call it a 'nerf', because they Wings themselves won't change if/ when you obtain them, just the rarity needs to be adjusted. The easiest way to address the change is by using the example of Magic Carpet, it's always nice to get one early, but it's not 100% guaranteed, which is how and why it retains it's charm. Again, this isn't about veteran number-crunching, consistency, consistancy is the main priority here.

Exactly, it's not a nerf, it's just a way to make obtaining the item more time consuming and more annoying for literally no reason. Also, Flying Carpet doesn't have a charm from not being guaranteed, it has a charm from being great for traversing the world early game.

All that is cool, but considering the current state of the game, being able to tap into Hardmode Movement Speed in pre-Hardmode is a bit much, I think. One of the biggest reasons Skeletron and Queen Bee are considered "skill check Bosses", is because your options for movement were limited, and demanded some kind of patter reconition, and prefight stratagy to overcome. With the mobility afforded to you by Fledgling Wings, or Magic Carpet (though arguably more difficult), these fights a much more 'fogiving', toppeld with the fact that movement in general has been greatly improved.

None of these changes are necessarily "bad", but I'm pretty sure a slight nerf to "directional speed" for the benefit of "verticality boost" in pre-Hardmode is a tradeoff any reasonable person would take (IJS).

No your movement options are not limited at QB and Skeletron tier, you have easy access to all Pre-Hardmode mobility items. And how does Fledgling Wings offer too good mobility? It is only 0.4 seconds of flight time and as Omega said earlier, it has AccRunSpeed which means you won't get movement speed boosts in the air. Plus, compared to double jumps, it has rather bad vertical acceleration.

Perhaps, but the balance you're describing comes from the fact that Featherfall is a limited resource (which requires some planning, in-game knowledge and possibly even 'skill'), whereas Fledgling Wings are a permanent upgrade (if of course you don't trash or lose them) where skill has a very low ceiling.

I do agree that Featherfall needs some getting-used-to, but not in the "limited resource" department. You should be already farming lots of herbs for other potions, and Feathers come from the only space enemy is Pre-Hardmode. You shouldn't have trouble getting lots of Featherfall Potions, and even if you can't you should still be able to have enough for boss fights.

I would then ask you, how would the game change in a negative way if they were "nerfed"? That's kinda the point, if they're an item you were going to ignore anyway, you're playing a "different game" already, which is in the realm of "skips" and "forced-flags", which isn't really something you consider in a balance patch, unless its "gamebreaking" (i.e. Reaver Shark, Meteorite, Crate Exploit??).

It would change in a negative way because the people who do like to use Fledgling Wings will have to do lots of world-hopping and it will just be annoying in general.

I'd have to disagree, but I think my consistency argument is pretty tough to disagree with. However, for the sake of making a point, here's what happens when to access Fledgling Wings, and let's go as far to say that they're the first item you get...

1. Gravity is no longer a threat.
2. You gain minor access to Featherfall.
3. You get a slight boost in jumping height.
4. You get access to glide.

Sorry but no, Starfury doesn't even come close to this. The most you get is a DPS Boost, easily replaced with something else in less than 15 mins of playtime.

1. Gravity is barely a threat once you have a grappling hook, plus Lucky Horseshoe still exists and can be tinkered with double jumps balloons
2. What? How does Fledgling Wings give you access to Featherfall at all? If you mean that it gives you a chance to collect feathers will obtaining it, then so can the other sky chest loot, so that's not a point in favour of Fledgling Wings.
3. You know what else gives a boost in jump height? Hmm, I wonder what does that...
4. This is a fair point, but then again Featherfall Potions exist so it's not a very big benefit of these wings.

Also Starfury is a pretty powerful sword with its high DPS, high projectile range and double damage on the stars. Also it can light up caves (even ones behind walls) very well.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

But why. Fledgling Wings are not supposed to be any kind of counterpart to Magic Carpet, this just seems like some kind of dumb connection you're making up.

I think I've made a pretty solid case, if you have something else you think is more comparable to Fledgling Wings that's appropriate, I'm all ears...

...Stuff like the Corruption and the Crimson are supposed to be counterparts, considering they are mutually exclusive on world creation (drunk world doesn't count). Pyramids and Floating Islands are not mutually exclusive and function differently in terms of generation (pyramids aren't guaranteed in worlds whereas floating islands are and also cycle through the loot pool). This is clearly a problem with how Pyramids generate and how you are locked out of them on that world, not a problem with floating islands at all.

That would've been a good take, possibly in 1.3.5, but now we have Queen Slime +her items, Deerclops +its items, Abigail's Flower... is it too difficult to see just how these new additions were balanced, rarity and all? The game is at a point where power-ups are comparable, that's just how the cards were dealt, intentional or not, Floating Islands and Pyramids are indeed comparable, and I made a pretty good case as to why. Again, if you have a better, more appropriate item to compare Fledgling Wings to, please do fill me in!

Exactly, it's not a nerf, it's just a way to make obtaining the item more time consuming and more annoying for literally no reason. Also, Flying Carpet doesn't have a charm from not being guaranteed, it has a charm from being great for traversing the world early game.

Well, I did provide a reason, because Fledgling Wings being rebalanced doesn't effect the many-other forms of mobility added to the game, as others have already expressed, Shiny Red Balloon is an arguably better item, which I don't entirely disagree with, but they're addressing "item potential" (because they're veterans), I'm addressing "power-up upon obtaining"; two different perspectives.

Lastly, both have around the same item potential IMHO, which is why I still hold my opinion, though they make good points.

No your movement options are not limited at QB and Skeletron tier, you have easy access to all Pre-Hardmode mobility items. And how does Fledgling Wings offer too good mobility? It is only 0.4 seconds of flight time and as Omega said earlier, it has AccRunSpeed which means you won't get movement speed boosts in the air. Plus, compared to double jumps, it has rather bad vertical acceleration.

Perhaps, but "math equations" aside, one of the things I did very early in 1.4, was display how Fledgling Wings + any Speed Boots (and grenades, because of Scarab Bombs flag), was far superior to Meteorite Skip. The only difference between the two was in-game knowledge and some strategy, but it doesn't mean that Meteorite Skip didn't still need to be nerfed. I'm describing a similar, but admittedly less egregious scenario.

For the record, I'm not suggesting Fledgling Wings are "broken", but neither was Meteorite Skip, it was a consistency issue.

I do agree that Featherfall needs some getting-used-to, but not in the "limited resource" department. You should be already farming lots of herbs for other potions, and Feathers come from the only space enemy is Pre-Hardmode. You shouldn't have trouble getting lots of Featherfall Potions, and even if you can't you should still be able to have enough for boss fights.

There's a LOT of "should" in this take, but I'd like to remind you that there's plenty of Terrarains who do just fine without crafting a single potion. If you're suggesting something intentional, well... I'd say if you're already in Space, just go-ahead and grab the Fledgling Wings, less time, and no need to farm Harpies; and I'd be correct.

It would change in a negative way because the people who do like to use Fledgling Wings will have to do lots of world-hopping and it will just be annoying in general.

...and if you were gonna World Hop anyhow, why not just get Balloons instead, since you'll likely do it for Sandstorm in a Bottle? See, you're making the comparisons for me, because if you have Balloons, having Fledgling Wings isn't nearly as desirable, it's better to just equip something else.

1. Gravity is barely a threat once you have a grappling hook, plus Lucky Horseshoe still exists and can be tinkered with double jumps balloons
2. What? How does Fledgling Wings give you access to Featherfall at all? If you mean that it gives you a chance to collect feathers will obtaining it, then so can the other sky chest loot, so that's not a point in favour of Fledgling Wings.
3. You know what else gives a boost in jump height? Hmm, I wonder what does that...
4. This is a fair point, but then again Featherfall Potions exist so it's not a very big benefit of these wings.

1. I don't disagree with this take, but I'd rather the Devs lean into this fact and not away from it. Hook has a change to "fail", which is why I think it also balances either choice, but not concerning gravity, but "movement options".
2. The option to "fast-fall" or "delay your fall" is a micro-movement option, in a fighting game, this would boost a character an entire tier upward.
3. Quite a few 1.4 items actually, which is why Fledglings being 'dice rolled' seems pretty reasonable to me.
4. It's the cumulative benefits, I don't see a point in examining one benefit in a vacuum, seems pretty disingenuous IMO.

Also Starfury is a pretty powerful sword with its high DPS, high projectile range and double damage on the stars. Also it can light up caves (even ones behind walls) very well.

No doubt, I just don't find it and Fledgling Wings to be comparable. If your actual real life depended on a "Hardcore, no death run", would you rather have the Wings or Starfury as a starter item? "Yeah, no need to answer. I already know (LoL)!"

 

[Lynxical]

I think I've made a pretty solid case, if you have something else you think is more comparable to Fledgling Wings that's appropriate, I'm all ears...

...what, why do Fledgling Wings need to have a "counterpart"? There's no point in trying to make a connection when... there literally isn't one and Fledgling are its own thing that aren't supposed to have a counterpart to

Well, I did provide a reason, because Fledgling Wings being rebalanced doesn't effect the many-other forms of mobility added to the game, as others have already expressed, Shiny Red Balloon is an arguably better item, which I don't entirely disagree with, but they're addressing "item potential" (because they're veterans), I'm addressing "power-up upon obtaining"; two different perspectives.

Lastly, both have around the same item potential IMHO, which is why I still hold my opinion, though they make good points.

If... Shiny Red Balloon is better than Fledgling why does Fledging need to be made rarer? That's not... a good point? Even if you obtain them pretty early at best it's "No fall damage with a mediocre glide"

Perhaps, but "math equations" aside, one of the things I did very early in 1.4, was display how Fledgling Wings + any Speed Boots (and grenades, because of Scarab Bombs flag), was far superior to Meteorite Skip. The only difference between the two was in-game knowledge and some strategy, but it doesn't mean that Meteorite Skip didn't still need to be nerfed. I'm describing a similar, but admittedly less egregious scenario.

For the record, I'm not suggesting Fledgling Wings are "broken", but neither was Meteorite Skip, it was a consistency issue.

Is... it really better than Meteorite Skip? I've used Fledgling and they only really become relevant with Rocket Boot+Upgrades... and Fledgling aren't consistent compared to Meteorite Skip was... straight up unintentional?

There's a LOT of "should" in this take, but I'd like to remind you that there's plenty of Terrarains who do just fine without crafting a single potion. If you're suggesting something intentional, well... I'd say if you're already in Space, just go-ahead and grab the Fledgling Wings, less time, and no need to farm Harpies; and I'd be correct.

I-I don't even know what to say here, Featherfall Potions are pretty common, not having them sounds like super bad rng... and they're legit better than Fledgling?

...and if you were gonna World Hop anyhow, why not just get Balloons instead, since you'll likely do it for Sandstorm in a Bottle? See, you're making the comparisons for me, because if you have Balloons, having Fledgling Wings isn't nearly as desirable, it's better to just equip something else.

Because... no one likes worldhopping? It's annoying and locking players out of Fledgling just because is really unfun and so is locking players out of Pyramid Loot but whatever

1. I don't disagree with this take, but I'd rather the Devs lean into this fact and not away from it. Hook has a change to "fail", which is why I think it also balances either choice, but not concerning gravity, but "movement options".
2. The option to "fast-fall" or "delay your fall" is a micro-movement option, in a fighting game, this would boost a character an entire tier upward.
3. Quite a few 1.4 items actually, which is why Fledglings being 'dice rolled' seems pretty reasonable to me.
4. It the cumulative benefits, I don't see a point in examining one benefit in a vacuum, seems pretty disingenuous IMO.

1. "Change to fail" Did you mean chance? Because it's not a chance to fail if you're skilled my lad
2. When did Terraria become a fighting game?! What update did I miss?! I'm used to Smash and Tekken!!
3. Fun fact: Blizzard goes higher than Fledgling, does that really seem fair?
4. Wait is it being compared in a vacuum? Featherfall boosts all jump items ridiculously well, it's not to Fledgling

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

...what, why do Fledgling Wings need to have a "counterpart"? There's no point in trying to make a connection when... there literally isn't one and Fledgling are its own thing that aren't supposed to have a counterpart to

It actually wasn't that hard to make the connection, and it isn't a reach when you consider what both items do, and where they're located (mysterious, ancient, shrine-like buildings, with a loot-able treasure chest inside)... mobility boosts, one vertical (Wings), the other horizonal (Carpet); oh, and have you seen Floating Islands in Drunk World??

If... Shiny Red Balloon is better than Fledgling why does Fledging need to be made rarer? That's not... a good point? Even if you obtain them pretty early at best it's "No fall damage with a mediocre glide"

Just to be clear, I only saw what @Shyguymask and @Omega Derpling were suggesting, but I don't share the opinion that Shiny Red Balloon is a better item, because the potential of both items are about the same. What makes Fledgling Wings a standout for me, is that the only reasonable item you'd ever replace it with after reaching Hardmode, is another pair of 'superior' Wings, which is and has been the Hardmode Meta since 1.3.5, but now it extends into pre-Hardmode in 1.4+.

I can't say the same for Balloons, especially considering the addition of Gelatinous Pillion, there's no reason to trade-in your Wings, ever.

Is... it really better than Meteorite Skip? I've used Fledgling and they only really become relevant with Rocket Boot+Upgrades... and Fledgling aren't consistent compared to Meteorite Skip was... straight up unintentional?

I mean, you have the right idea, but keep in mind that Grappling Hook was brought into the discussion, and though a rare case, Moon Lord Legs exist. Yeah, it's a better skip...

I-I don't even know what to say here, Featherfall Potions are pretty common, not having them sounds like super bad rng... and they're legit better than Fledgling?

Better? No, not IMHO. Comparable? Certainly, I don't disagree with that.

Because... no one likes worldhopping? It's annoying and locking players out of Fledgling just because is really unfun and so is locking players out of Pyramid Loot but whatever

1. "Change to fail" Did you mean chance? Because it's not a chance to fail if you're skilled my lad
2. When did Terraria become a fighting game?! What update did I miss?! I'm used to Smash and Tekken!!
3. Fun fact: Blizzard goes higher than Fledgling, does that really seem fair?
4. Wait is it being compared in a vacuum? Featherfall boosts all jump items ridiculously well, it's not to Fledgling

1. Maybe, but 'skill' isn't something you consider in a balance discussion all by itself, but you have to consider skill ceiling as well. Hook has a high skill ceiling, opening up a random chest doesn't take any skill at all.
2. I was addressing the micro-movement that Fledlging Wings afford to movement, I think it was a good comparison because someone tried to compare them to Starfury. One would raise a character an entire tier in another game, the other, not-so-much.
3. Perhaps, but I'm not comparing things in a vacuum, especially in a sandbox game, it's not a very useful method.
4. I mean... sure, but I believe that I made a good case as to why Fledgling Wings are unrivaled in the matter of "jump buffs". (see below)

What makes Fledgling Wings a standout for me, is that the only reasonable item you'd ever replace it with after reaching Hardmode, is another pair of 'superior' Wings, which is and has been the Hardmode Meta since 1.3.5, but now it extends into pre-Hardmode in 1.4+. I can't say the same for Balloons, especially considering the addition of Gelatinous Pillion, there's no reason to trade-in your Wings, ever.

 

[qwerty3.14]

Alright let's take a look.
Here's some jump heights of different setups.

-Compared to base shiny red fledgling wings are just better. However early game you'll have more accessory slots than accessories so you'll likely use both.

-By the time you have to actually make choices on accessories you'll have the red balloon tinker up with a double jump.

-On their own fledgling wings and blue horseshoe balloon have the same jump height. With fledgling wings having the advantage of gliding. while the balloon has much better acceleration. It doesn't matter how fast you're falling when you press jump you immediately start going up, fledgling wings lose all their flight time if you try to start going up after the fall.

-Usually you'll have more than one movement accesory, Spectre boots and amphibian boots improve your top horizonatl speed while helping with you vertical movement. Spectre boots dramatically increase the flight time of fledgling wings, however this comes at the cost of replacing the boots onw flight effect Blue horshoe balloon + spectre gets a noticable height advantage over fledgling + spectre, in addition to their previous advantage of acceleration.

So with the exception of being able to glide blue horsehoes balloon is better. Although that glide is pretty nice being able to have two different fall speeds. Well... if you like that may I introduce you to the featherfall potion.
You think fledgling wings are good? Featherrfall is everything you like about fledgling wings turned up to 11, and since it's a potion there's no opportunity cost on your build to using it (unless you somehow hit the buff limit).

With featherfall you can have THREE different fall speeds. If you hold up you fall SUPER slow much slower than what fledgling wings provide, if you press down you fall at normal speed(but still get fall damage immunity), and fall at fledgling glide speed if you holding neither up or down.
But it gets even better. Fledgling wings can't glide until you run out of flight, with featherfall potion you can reduce gravity WHILE YOU ARE JUMPING!
Because of this featherfall can drammaticly increase your jump height (especially when holding up).

Continuing the chart...

We're still not done yet? Notice how there's not blue balloon + boots?
You see that white torch up there? That's a marker for the next section.

With the help of featherfall potion balloons start competing with hardmode wings!!
I usually don't bother with wings until post plantera because of this.

Featherfall potions are very easy to make too. Daybloom and blinkroot are easy to farm renewably, and the bottles are just smelted sand, the feathers can be rarmed really quickly too a few minutes of farming feathers gets you hours of featherfall enjoyment.

 

[Yreorel]

Quad balloon is already superior to every wing up to Fishron Wings, assuming Featherfall Potion is used in both cases. This is because quad balloon instantly alters your vertical velocity.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Featherfall potions are very easy to make too. Daybloom and blinkroot are easy to farm renewably, and the bottles are just smelted sand, the feathers can be rarmed really quickly too a few minutes of farming feathers gets you hours of featherfall enjoyment.

Aside from the main point (Fledgling Wings rarity), I just want to add some perspective here that I think might've been missed (seeing as how both myself, and those who disagree with me appreciate the information provided).

First, let's discuss Alchemy and the effective ways to engage with it, starting with the "Big Three".

1. Alchemy Table (mostly post-Skeletron).
2. Planter Boxes (mostly post-EoC).
3. Staff of Regrowth (Underground Jungle).

I think it's important to lay all the cards on the table, just so we're clear about what's what, and no one is hiding behind @qwerty3.14 's experiment. When you're measuring somethings' effectiveness, you have to consider a number of things, especially in an Sandbox game. For example, a.) how easy is it to obtain, b.) what are the barriers to entry, c.) where is something located, d.) is the thing consistent or random, e.) how many steps are involved, f.) how does it compare to other things that are similar?

I just want to be sure what no one here is suggesting that farming Harpies 10-15 mins into starting a new game is feasible, reasonable, or more valuable then a quick "Smash-n-Grab", darting directly for the Sky-loot instead (this is of course assuming that a Map Editor wasn't used).

If there is some technique or exploit that somehow speeds this process up, I guess that'd be the difference maker, but then to engage in Alchemy efficiently, you'd still want access to "The Big three".

Quad balloon is already superior to every wing up to Fishron Wings, assuming Featherfall Potion is used in both cases. This is because quad balloon instantly alters your vertical velocity.

Another thing I'd also like to keep in perspective, is that Metagaming implemented by veterans isn't what's being address or considered here, just the Vanilla Meta (what most Players will be exposed to without the help of YouTube or a guide). This is a consistency balance proposal, nothing in the realm of suggesting a nerf to already-existing methods of movement. If however, that's something being used as an excuse for Fledgling Wings to remain as they are in 1.4.3, I'd say that a simple change in the recipe from Featherfall Potion is in order (which I don't think is necessary, but if were leaning toward having a tit-for-tat balance discussion, lets...

...but I will note that there are some who swear by Gravitation Potion + Umbrella, so it's not like we can't do this all day if obscure knowledge is the only excuse left to overlook Fledgling Wings.

 

[Dapling]

I just want to be sure what no one here is suggesting that farming Harpies 10-15 mins into starting a new game is feasible, reasonable, or more valuable then a quick "Smash-n-Grab", darting directly for the Sky-loot instead (this is of course assuming that a Map Editor wasn't used).

I think you're overrating how easy gravitation potions are to access early on in the game. They don't even begin to appear in chests and pots until you've entered the cavern layer at the earliest, they require fireblossom to brew, and their chances are literally identical to obtaining featherfall through just getting lucky by RNG in the first place. And if you don't have a gravitation potion for sky islands finding them is far from consistent I'd say, considering that short of building a gargantuan skybridge (with no mobility or effective kill method for harpies whatsoever) you need to find a weapon that can bounce off walls and has competent range (the earliest source of which are Meteor Bullets and Water Bolt, which require you have a reasonable amount of footing in progression anyway so you're likely beyond the point where you need fledgeling wings (you have more height from rocket boots by that point and if you have hermes boots fledgeling wings cut your midair horizontal mobility in half, this is assuming you didn't go out of your way for lightning boots or their upgrades in which case they lower it by an even larger percentage)). What method are you using for getting sky islands if you're finding fledgeling wings faster than 10-15 minutes into the game? I'm genuinely curious because it sounds like an incredibly effective strategy if so and the greater community could benefit from such knowledge.

Also as for that note at the end, third party tools shouldn't be considered for balance as it's not fair to expect the devs to account for every single possibility with those.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

I think you're overrating how easy gravitation potions are to access early on in the game. They don't even begin to appear in chests and pots until you've entered the cavern layer at the earliest, they require fireblossom to brew, and their chances are literally identical to obtaining featherfall through just getting lucky by RNG in the first place.

I brought this up for the sake of balance inconsistencies that were outside the scope of this discussion (i.e. Featherfall synergy/ tactics), because... if what was being suggested equates to "Fledgling Wings are fine as is, because Featherfall is better", then my counter-argument would be "Gravitation Potion is far more superior to everything we've discussed here", and is just as accessible, if we're inserting veteran metagaming into the discussion (i.e. progression skips).

I don't think that's a very helpful road to go down, or a meaningful enough measuring stick to analyze Fledgling Wings by, because Starter Wings early-HM Wings Upgraded Wings+ Endgame Wings, is indeed the "Vanilla Meta", whatever we do outside of that is in-game Veteran knowledge, whether borrowed or discovered.

And if you don't have a gravitation potion for sky islands finding them is far from consistent I'd say, considering that short of building a gargantuan skybridge...What method are you using for getting sky islands if you're finding fledgeling wings faster than 10-15 minutes into the game? I'm genuinely curious because it sounds like an incredibly effective strategy if so and the greater community could benefit from such knowledge.

The often overlooked, but very effective "Survival Guide" (Guide to Plant Fiber Cordage); and here's the funny part about it, I'd argue that Harpies are about equal in difficulty as various Antlion Enemies if you do an early-run attempt.

The thing is, this method is an alternative to the many other familiar ways to reach the Sky Islands, it's not 100% guaranteed of course, but once you do have this item, you can try exploring Space as many times as you'd like, failure or no. What makes it a problem, is that if you discover every Sky Island this way, you will eventually find the 1.4.3 Fledgling Wings, because "Survival Guide" is a renewable resource item, and is pre-Merchant NPC, pre-Boss and pre-Cavern Layer.

 

[Yreorel]

The problem isn't that Fledgling Wings is good, the problem is that Carpet is VERY bad. Carpet should be a lot better than it currently is.

Fledgling Wings are not "fine as is". They are literally the ONLY way to consistently no-hit Skeletron in MMFTW without Featherfall Potion or Shield of Cthulhu. Nerfing Fledgling Wings only harms new players.

Also, Grav Potions are not superior. They have low Y-velocity change rate which can screw you over. Featherfall can achieve higher Y-velocity increases and more instantaneous Y-velocity drops. Grav is bad for everything but Twins, maybe Queen Slime, and finding Sky Islands.

If I actually had control over the balance, I would add Sandstorm in a Bottle + Flying Carpet into the Oasis Crate pool, and give Flying Carpet like 40 mph and 30 second duration or something. Would also add a Forest crate which contains Living Tree items + Aglet + Radar.

On top of that, Rocket Boots are physically uncomfortable to use.

 

[Dreadnautilus5000🌳]

I think I've made a pretty solid case, if you have something else you think is more comparable to Fledgling Wings that's appropriate, I'm all ears...

I have spoken to Leinfors in a Discord server and he talks about how the Terraria community pushes so much for symmetry, and based on what he said about this it doesn’t seem like floating islands are supposed to be alternatives to anything.

That would've been a good take, possibly in 1.3.5, but now we have Queen Slime +her items, Deerclops +its items, Abigail's Flower... is it too difficult to see just how these new additions were balanced, rarity and all? The game is at a point where power-ups are comparable, that's just how the cards were dealt, intentional or not, Floating Islands and Pyramids are indeed comparable, and I made a pretty good case as to why. Again, if you have a better, more appropriate item to compare Fledgling Wings to, please do fill me in!

How about instead of trying to bring Fledgling Wings down to the rarity of Magic Carpet, we do the opposite? Make a pyramid guaranteed in every world? Maybe even make two pyramids guaranteed in Large worlds?

Well, I did provide a reason, because Fledgling Wings being rebalanced doesn't effect the many-other forms of mobility added to the game, as others have already expressed, Shiny Red Balloon is an arguably better item, which I don't entirely disagree with, but they're addressing "item potential" (because they're veterans), I'm addressing "power-up upon obtaining"; two different perspectives.

Fledgling Wings aren’t really that powerful on their own, they are very slow and have AccRunSpeed. About this “power-up upon obtaining”, why are we not concentrating on stuff like Hermes Boots, which literally doubles your horizontal speed, or grappling hooks, which allow you to go basically anywhere in caves, give you speed in any direction thanks to grapple canceling, and can be used to stop fall damage if timed correctly?

Perhaps, but "math equations" aside, one of the things I did very early in 1.4, was display how Fledgling Wings + any Speed Boots (and grenades, because of Scarab Bombs flag), was far superior to Meteorite Skip. The only difference between the two was in-game knowledge and some strategy, but it doesn't mean that Meteorite Skip didn't still need to be nerfed. I'm describing a similar, but admittedly less egregious scenario.

For the record, I'm not suggesting Fledgling Wings are "broken", but neither was Meteorite Skip, it was a consistency issue.

Meteorite Skip was broken because Space Gun absolutely destroyed EoW and BoC, bosses they weren’t intended to be used on, since from what I can gather the devs intended you to break orbs/hearts at the same time you beat the evil bosses, meaning they considered Meteorite as post-evil boss. Also, you are literally suggesting they are too good for a guaranteed item, just reread what you’ve said.

There's a LOT of "should" in this take, but I'd like to remind you that there's plenty of Terrarains who do just fine without crafting a single potion. If you're suggesting something intentional, well... I'd say if you're already in Space, just go-ahead and grab the Fledgling Wings, less time, and no need to farm Harpies; and I'd be correct.

The reason those players don’t make potions is because they are either lazy or don’t realize how much of a benefit they are. Also don’t you know that you can rope up into the sky anywhere in the world to the height Harpies spawn at and farm there? Fledgling Wings require you to find two or three very specific places in the world.

...and if you were gonna World Hop anyhow, why not just get Balloons instead, since you'll likely do it for Sandstorm in a Bottle? See, you're making the comparisons for me, because if you have Balloons, having Fledgling Wings isn't nearly as desirable, it's better to just equip something else.

Are you trying to make these wings redundancy?

No doubt, I just don't find it and Fledgling Wings to be comparable. If your actual real life depended on a "Hardcore, no death run", would you rather have the Wings or Starfury as a starter item? "Yeah, no need to answer. I already know (LoL)!"

In that case I would definitely choose Starfury, since it will annihilate basic enemies, hit flying enemies from farther away. and light up traps for me.

Just to be clear, I only saw what @Shyguymask and @Omega Derpling were suggesting, but I don't share the opinion that Shiny Red Balloon is a better item, because the potential of both items are about the same. What makes Fledgling Wings a standout for me, is that the only reasonable item you'd ever replace it with after reaching Hardmode, is another pair of 'superior' Wings, which is and has been the Hardmode Meta since 1.3.5, but now it extends into pre-Hardmode in 1.4+.

I can't say the same for Balloons, especially considering the addition of Gelatinous Pillion, there's no reason to trade-in your Wings, ever.

No, Shiny Red Balloon has a lot more potential. Unlike Fledgling Wings, you can craft a variety of different double jump balloons which, because they are different, stack together. And don’t forget about Bundle of Balloons. What “potential” do the wings have? You can’t craft them into anything, and they don’t synergize with other aerial movement accessories, they actually do the opposite. And you can achieve the effects elsewhere too, though Lucky Horseshoe and Featherfall.

What are you on about, wings and Pillion are literally mutually exclusive, whereas balloons boost Pillion’s speed and I believe you can double jump on Pillion, but it might just be other mounts.

Aside from the main point (Fledgling Wings rarity), I just want to add some perspective here that I think might've been missed (seeing as how both myself, and those who disagree with me appreciate the information provided).

First, let's discuss Alchemy and the effective ways to engage with it, starting with the "Big Three".

1. Alchemy Table (mostly post-Skeletron).
2. Planter Boxes (mostly post-EoC).
3. Staff of Regrowth (Underground Jungle).

I think it's important to lay all the cards on the table, just so we're clear about what's what, and no one is hiding behind @qwerty3.14 's experiment. When you're measuring somethings' effectiveness, you have to consider a number of things, especially in an Sandbox game. For example, a.) how easy is it to obtain, b.) what are the barriers to entry, c.) where is something located, d.) is the thing consistent or random, e.) how many steps are involved, f.) how does it compare to other things that are similar?

I just want to be sure what no one here is suggesting that farming Harpies 10-15 mins into starting a new game is feasible, reasonable, or more valuable then a quick "Smash-n-Grab", darting directly for the Sky-loot instead (this is of course assuming that a Map Editor wasn't used).

If there is some technique or exploit that somehow speeds this process up, I guess that'd be the difference maker, but then to engage in Alchemy efficiently, you'd still want access to "The Big three".

You do realize that Clay Pots exist right? And that they are basically identical to Planter Boxes? A herb farm is easy to set up and the herbs required for Featherfall are easy ones to get, not like Deathweed or Fireblossom.

Another thing I'd also like to keep in perspective, is that Metagaming implemented by veterans isn't what's being address or considered here, just the Vanilla Meta (what most Players will be exposed to without the help of YouTube or a guide). This is a consistency balance proposal, nothing in the realm of suggesting a nerf to already-existing methods of movement. If however, that's something being used as an excuse for Fledgling Wings to remain as they are in 1.4.3, I'd say that a simple change in the recipe from Featherfall Potion is in order (which I don't think is necessary, but if were leaning toward having a tit-for-tat balance discussion, lets...

Do you even understand the term you’re using so much? How is “metagaming” different from using “the meta”? Why would veteran strategies not count as the meta?

I’ve had enough of trying to deal with you repeatedly saying wings are the meta for the whole game despite being proven wrong, I’m just not going to reply to that anymore.

The often overlooked, but very effective "Survival Guide" (Guide to Plant Fiber Cordage); and here's the funny part about it, I'd argue that Harpies are about equal in difficulty as various Antlion Enemies if you do an early-run attempt.

The thing is, this method is an alternative to the many other familiar ways to reach the Sky Islands, it's not 100% guaranteed of course, but once you do have this item, you can try exploring Space as many times as you'd like, failure or no. What makes it a problem, is that if you discover every Sky Island this way, you will eventually find the 1.4.3 Fledgling Wings, because "Survival Guide" is a renewable resource item, and is pre-Merchant NPC, pre-Boss and pre-Cavern Layer.

So you’re going to farm Vine Rope and go up in random spots until you hit an island? That is an extremely inconsistent strategy, I’d rather go underground and be able to find way more useful and long term stuff like Life Crystals, a hook, Hermes Boots, torches, ore, etc…

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

The problem isn't that Fledgling Wings is good, the problem is that Carpet is VERY bad. Carpet should be a lot better than it currently is.

I mean, for the sake of reinforcing my point, what early-game movement accessory compares to Flying Carpet then (if it's a bad item)? Let's say you had a choice of any one, early-game, pre-Boss, Overworld tier, movement accessory as a starting item, including the option of Flying Carpet, what item would you choose over it?

Fledgling Wings are not "fine as is". They are literally the ONLY way to consistently no-hit Skeletron in MMFTW without Featherfall Potion or Shield of Cthulhu. Nerfing Fledgling Wings only harms new players.

My only response to this would be, what were players doing differently in 1.3.5 no-hit runs?

The Player Character has overall been buffed in every conceivable way in 1.4+, with even more buffs on the way; I can assure you they'll be just fine if rebalanced Fledgling Wings just-so-happen not to spawn in their World.

Also, Grav Potions are not superior. They have low Y-velocity change rate which can screw you over. Featherfall can achieve higher Y-velocity increases and more instantaneous Y-velocity drops. Grav is bad for everything but Twins, maybe Queen Slime, and finding Sky Islands.

Not quite the case, at it's best, Gravity Potion rivals pre-nerfed Black Spot.

If I actually had control over the balance, I would add Sandstorm in a Bottle + Flying Carpet into the Oasis Crate pool, and give Flying Carpet like 40 mph and 30 second duration or something. Would also add a Forest crate which contains Living Tree items + Aglet + Radar.

Just you're aware, some of the newer Mounts that are locked behind progression have speed in the top 40's or so, which means you're already shifting balance in a negative way. Also, this is the current Desert Loot Pool.

• Ancient Chisel
• S. Fishing Rod
• Dune Boots
• T. Zapper
• Bast Statue
• Snake Flute
• Magic Conch

------------------------

• S.Storm in a Bottle
• Flying Carpet
• any other Pyramid Loot

That's about 12+ possible items from a single Crate, yet another shift in balance for the worst.

On top of that, Rocket Boots are physically uncomfortable to use.

Player taste is sometimes considered in these matters, but not always.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

I have spoken to Leinfors in a Discord server and he talks about how the Terraria community pushes so much for symmetry, and based on what he said about this it doesn’t seem like floating islands are supposed to be alternatives to anything.

Actually, it was @Leinfors who started this whole symmetry quest, if he doesn't support the idea, or feel like making the adjustment, he should just say so (LoL); I'm sure a number of us were just fine with certain items being the "undisputed champion" pre 1.4, until he and the crew went Super Saiyan to try bringing some form of 'balance' to the game.

Now the symmetry obsession is on us, huh? Yeah, okay Leinfors...

How about instead of trying to bring Fledgling Wings down to the rarity of Magic Carpet, we do the opposite? Make a pyramid guaranteed in every world? Maybe even make two pyramids guaranteed in Large worlds?

I mean, I'm not totally against it. However, I just so happen to enjoy when certain options in a game aren't available, and push you to experiment with newer methods/ tactics. I understand that this isn't a feature everyone enjoys, but with the thousands of items we have in 1.4+, I didn't see the harm in having this feature in Terraria, especially considering just how many movement accessories we already have.

Fledgling Wings aren’t really that powerful on their own, they are very slow and have AccRunSpeed. About this “power-up upon obtaining”, why are we not concentrating on stuff like Hermes Boots, which literally doubles your horizontal speed, or grappling hooks, which allow you to go basically anywhere in caves, give you speed in any direction thanks to grapple canceling, and can be used to stop fall damage if timed correctly?

Honestly, I don't see an issue with any of the Boot Items, but I certainly did notice just how much easier it was to kill Master Mode Skeletron with Fledgling Wings. Skeletron has always been a Boss I've had issues with in Expert Mode, which is why I always came back later with Bee Gear, but in 1.4, he's kind of a joke.

As far as Hook Items are concerned, that ship sailed with Gem Hooks and Gem Trees. I thought they were already a bad idea before (seeing as how they nearly invalidate the standard Iron Hook), but the game had already moved on before it could reasonably be addressed, there were also bigger fish to fry, and it isn't egregious enough to give any real attention to either.

Meteorite Skip was broken because Space Gun absolutely destroyed EoW and BoC, bosses they weren’t intended to be used on, since from what I can gather the devs intended you to break orbs/hearts at the same time you beat the evil bosses, meaning they considered Meteorite as post-evil boss. Also, you are literally suggesting they are too good for a guaranteed item, just reread what you’ve said.

Are you suggesting I didn't mean what I said the first time? Space Gun was no better or worse then the Grenades that you could buy from Demolitionist. In fact, you can still obtain Water Bolt in Dungeons if you're lucky in Drunk World. What I'm suggesting here is that there'll always be ways to cheese Bosses, if they have no intention of buffing... Dreadnautilus... (of all Bosses) from cheese, why the picking and choosing?

Seeing as how Sanguine Staff is the reward for this fight, and it's 100% guaranteed to drop (even though I voted against it), which would you consider to be more egregious? Point being, I thought Leinfors cared about symmetry, because honestly, I don't care much at all... I play Skyrim and Souls games in case everyone needed a reminder (LoL, Moon Veil Katana)!

The reason those players don’t make potions is because they are either lazy or don’t realize how much of a benefit they are. Also don’t you know that you can rope up into the sky anywhere in the world to the height Harpies spawn at and farm there? Fledgling Wings require you to find two or three very specific places in the world.

True and true, but the part you're missing is the Weaponry, the resources and the time investment. Also, as a person who plays Souls games, the number of times I hear about players not using the crafting system, but then complain about enemy status effect is no different here. I try to stay away from critiquing how a person plays anything, unless they start trying to blame the game and not themselves.

Are you trying to make these wings redundancy?

In that case I would definitely choose Starfury, since it will annihilate basic enemies, hit flying enemies from farther away. and light up traps for me.

Fair enough...

No, Shiny Red Balloon has a lot more potential. Unlike Fledgling Wings, you can craft a variety of different double jump balloons which, because they are different, stack together. And don’t forget about Bundle of Balloons. What “potential” do the wings have? You can’t craft them into anything, and they don’t synergize with other aerial movement accessories, they actually do the opposite. And you can achieve the effects elsewhere too, though Lucky Horseshoe and Featherfall.

At what point in pre-Hardmode would you ever need more than what Fledgling Wings already provide? Potential has a cap to it, incase that wasn't being taken into account here; diminishing returns on investment speaks for itself, if the absurd mobility provided by any other method had merit, I'd agree, but they don't change anything, which is why I don't think it's important.

Also, I'm pretty sure that the gradual improvements to mobility given to the Wings with each and every-other upgrade don't need to be stated here, they're pretty obvious. If that wasn't the case, they wouldn't still retain their usefulness in early-Hardmode. Though I would add that they allow for you to battle Destroyer almost right away, that can be said for a LOT of other items too, so it's not a very good point to add here, aside from the fact most of them are Hardmode Items.

What are you on about, wings and Pillion are literally mutually exclusive, whereas balloons boost Pillion’s speed and I believe you can double jump on Pillion, but it might just be other mounts.

Gelatinous Pillion is a good Mount regardless of any of this. If you wanted to abandon Wings as an item altogether, you could. Point being, Smash-n-Grab Space item Queen Slime's Mount is a pretty long run, only rivaled by something like Worm Scarf and possibly Shield of C. (which are both Boss items), that's pretty darn good in my book.

You do realize that Clay Pots exist right? And that they are basically identical to Planter Boxes? A herb farm is easy to set up and the herbs required for Featherfall are easy ones to get, not like Deathweed or Fireblossom.

Perhaps, but you still need a Furnace, Glass and other resources, which is arguably Merchant tier. On top of that, you need an effective PvE weapon to make the Farming of Enemies reasonable, especially in Expert Mode+, or it becomes a grind-fest; either that or you've built a "contraption" of some sort.

With Fledgling Wings, all you need is a Gravity Potion or "Survival Guide" and maybe luck, done. Seems pretty definitive to me.

Do you even understand the term you’re using so much? How is “metagaming” different from using “the meta”? Why would veteran strategies not count as the meta?

I love when people suggest that I'm using the term incorrectly (it happens pretty often, LoL). There are different types and levels of metagaming, and I'll post a few so we don't have to make this post any longer then necessary.

1. Effectiveness (ratio data)
2. Consistency/ easy of use or access
3. Time investment (how fast or how slow)
4. Checks (knowledge, skill)
5. Potential
6. Min/ Maxing
7. Meta Shift (something new is discovered)

Terraria has a lot of "metas" happening, seeing as how it's a sandbox game, there's even a PvP Meta, and it doesn't look anything like the PvE Meta. Have I used the word Meta enough for you now, or should we discuss a different part of the Meta?

I’ve had enough of trying to deal with you repeatedly saying wings are the meta for the whole game despite being proven wrong, I’m just not going to reply to that anymore.

Pretty sure I said "Vanilla Game", but that wasn't even what this post was about, so sure...?? I'd love to not have to still talk about a separate issue, I only entertained the discussion previously because it was somewhat interesting and considering what we got from it, was worth the slight detour.

So you’re going to farm Vine Rope and go up in random spots until you hit an island? That is an extremely inconsistent strategy, I’d rather go underground and be able to find way more useful and long term stuff like Life Crystals, a hook, Hermes Boots, torches, ore, etc…

I was addressing a specific question; the question of Fledgling Wing's potential was brought up repeatedly, you can literally get them in the first 10-15 mins of playtime (1, 3 & 5 "see Metas), whereas this isn't the case with a reliable/ renewable source of Featherfall Potions. I'm pretty certain that the comparison I made was pretty clear, come to think of it, you asked about Fledgling Wings potential in this very post, so here I am answering the question yet again, pretty funny huh?