Weapons & Equip Forbidden Charm - New Multiclass Accessory

[FroststormFrenzy]

Everyone knows the Forbidden Armor is... not ideal for single class use, and requires multiclassing to be effective, unlike Frost Armor which can work on its own.

But I'm focusing on a different aspect for this post: While both the Frost Core and Forbidden Fragment share the same uses, having an armor set, a weapon, and a convenience recipe for a pre-hardmode bottle accessory, the Ice Golem's drops have an additional recipe that makes it more worthwhile to farm, even ignoring the disparity in armor. The Ice Feather, for Frozen Wings. It's the additional accessory that I intend to fix, along with adding a viable competitor for a certain Mana Flower slot.

Starting with the material drop,

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Ancient Charm
33% drop from Sand Elementals.
Resembles a smaller, rusty, silver version of the Forbidden Armor's Forbidden Sign minion.

Not really much to say.

---

Forbidden Charm
Recipe:

• 1x Ancient Charm
• 10x Soul of Night
• 1x Dark Shard

Grants up to 20% Magic Damage as mana increases, and 20% Summon Damage as mana decreases.

To go more in-depth on the effect: The full damage bonus will always be 20%, but the distribution changes as you spend mana. At full mana, the full 20% is allocated into Magic Damage, with no bonuses to summon damage. With an empty mana bar, however, the full 20% is instead allocated into Summon Damage, with no bonuses to magic damage.
The exact numbers could be calculated with:
Magic Bonus = (20 * (mana / maxmana))
Summon Bonus = (20 - (Magic Bonus))
The Forbidden Armor's sandstorm, due to scaling with both, will always have the full bonus.

Now, instead of just providing the concept, I'm also going to provide some examples of how this could be useful, both for singleclass and multiclass.

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EXHIBIT A​

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The primary use case as a multiclass option. Emptying your mana bar with your chosen magic weapon, then, instead of using a mana potion to keep attacking, you'd switch to your whips for whip stacking as your mana regenerates on its own, using the full damage bonus for both classes. This is how I initially envisioned it being used, as it gives a dedicated window for whip stacking as well as encouraging proper mana management.

---

EXHIBIT B​

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Instead of allowing the mana bar to deplete fully, you'd aim to keep it around halfway, using a constant 10% boost for both classes. This approach allows it to function as a pre-mech Avenger Emblem, while once again encouraging mana management over blindly firing and letting the Mana Flower do the rest. A lot more tedious, as it makes the player switch classes more frequently, but more consistent in DPS, still using the regen time to perform whip stacking.

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EXHIBIT C: Burst Mage​

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While being designed to support both classes at once, that doesn't necessarily mean it can't work as a single class accessory. So, how could mages use it?

A simple mechanic of mana regeneration: The more mana you have remaining, the faster your mana regeneration is. Cutting off your attacks when your bar reaches halfway, letting your mana regenerate, then attacking again, which seems to be how mage was intended to be played from the start. The damage bonus of the Forbidden Charm reduces the damage penalty suffered from not attacking for a little while, making this approach more viable.

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EXHIBIT D: Pure Summoner​

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Summoner also has a fairly simple use for this accessory, even without using the Golden Shower for support. Sentries.

Sentries provide a way for summoners to waste mana, which is especially useful in large arenas where you'll often fly out of range. The mana cost of relocating sentries back in range allows summoners to reliably trigger its damage boost without needing to rely on the Golden Shower or fake-summoner weapons like the Nimbus Rod.

Additional synergy with the Forbidden Armor, where the Sandstorm can be utilized as a proper weapon without interfering with whip stacking. Because for some reason, it uses mana.

---

So, there you go. Just an idea I had that I thought I'd share.

I did also consider making the bonus 25%, allowing it to function as an actual early avenger emblem if used right, but 25% seems a bit too powerful even with the gimmick.

As a final note: Tinkers weren't acknowledged previously because it's meant to be an offensive counterpart to Frozen Wings, which don't have tinkers either. However, I did have some ideas:

• Mana Regeneration Charm: Forbidden Charm + Mana Regeneration Band. Retains the increased mana regeneration, which is lost when upgrading to Magic Cuffs, better supporting the burst mage playstyle.
• Forbidden Cuffs: Forbidden Charm + Celestial Cuffs. Probably too powerful, though.
  • Note: Due to the cuffs lacking the regen effect of the band, both tinkers could reasonably coexist.
• Sun Charm: Forbidden Charm + Sun Stone. References the interaction between the Forbidden Sign and Safeman's Sunny Day.
  • Could alternatively be Celestial Charm with the Celestial Stone.
• Forbidden Cloak: Forbidden Charm + Star Cloak. Serves as an alternative to the Mana Cloak.
  • Possible bonus effect: Stars explode into dust clouds upon hitting a tile, dealing damage over time to nearby enemies.
• Sandstorm Charm: Forbidden Charm + Sandstorm in a Bottle. Dust clouds left behind by the double jump deal damage over time to nearby enemies. (Overrides Sandstorm Jump from other accessories)

Not much thought was put into these, they're just listed as concepts.



...Huh? I missed something?

What do you-

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EXHIBIT E​

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[Asternove]

Everyone knows the Forbidden Armor is... not ideal for single class use, and requires multiclassing to be effective, unlike Frost Armor which can work on its own.

But I'm focusing on a different aspect for this post: While both the Frost Core and Forbidden Fragment share the same uses, having an armor set, a weapon, and a convenience recipe for a pre-hardmode bottle accessory, the Ice Golem's drops have an additional recipe that makes it more worthwhile to farm, even ignoring the disparity in armor. The Ice Feather, for Frozen Wings. It's the additional accessory that I intend to fix, along with adding a viable competitor for a certain Mana Flower slot.

Starting with the material drop,

---

Ancient Charm
33% drop from Sand Elementals.
Resembles a smaller, rusty, silver version of the Forbidden Armor's Forbidden Sign minion.

Not really much to say.

---

Forbidden Charm
Recipe:

• 1x Ancient Charm
• 10x Soul of Night
• 1x Dark Shard

I do feel like being absolutely fair to each side would entail just... giving a Sand Feather or something to Sand Elementals for their own wings. I do like the concept, but I think it could have different obtainability and at least a Frost equivalent.

Grants up to 20% Magic Damage as mana increases, and 20% Summon Damage as mana decreases.

To go more in-depth on the effect: The full damage bonus will always be 20%, but the distribution changes as you spend mana. At full mana, the full 20% is allocated into Magic Damage, with no bonuses to summon damage. With an empty mana bar, however, the full 20% is instead allocated into Summon Damage, with no bonuses to magic damage.
The exact numbers could be calculated with:
Magic Bonus = (20 * (mana / maxmana))
Summon Bonus = (20 - (Magic Bonus))
The Forbidden Armor's sandstorm, due to scaling with both, will always have the full bonus.

Now, instead of just providing the concept, I'm also going to provide some examples of how this could be useful, both for singleclass and multiclass.

---

EXHIBIT A​

---

The primary use case as a multiclass option. Emptying your mana bar with your chosen magic weapon, then, instead of using a mana potion to keep attacking, you'd switch to your whips for whip stacking as your mana regenerates on its own, using the full damage bonus for both classes. This is how I initially envisioned it being used, as it gives a dedicated window for whip stacking as well as encouraging proper mana management.

---

EXHIBIT B​

---

Instead of allowing the mana bar to deplete fully, you'd aim to keep it around halfway, using a constant 10% boost for both classes. This approach allows it to function as a pre-mech Avenger Emblem, while once again encouraging mana management over blindly firing and letting the Mana Flower do the rest. A lot more tedious, as it makes the player switch classes more frequently, but more consistent in DPS, still using the regen time to perform whip stacking.

---

EXHIBIT C: Burst Mage​

---

While being designed to support both classes at once, that doesn't necessarily mean it can't work as a single class accessory. So, how could mages use it?

A simple mechanic of mana regeneration: The more mana you have remaining, the faster your mana regeneration is. Cutting off your attacks when your bar reaches halfway, letting your mana regenerate, then attacking again, which seems to be how mage was intended to be played from the start. The damage bonus of the Forbidden Charm reduces the damage penalty suffered from not attacking for a little while, making this approach more viable.

---

EXHIBIT D: Pure Summoner​

---

Summoner also has a fairly simple use for this accessory, even without using the Golden Shower for support. Sentries.

Sentries provide a way for summoners to waste mana, which is especially useful in large arenas where you'll often fly out of range. The mana cost of relocating sentries back in range allows summoners to reliably trigger its damage boost without needing to rely on the Golden Shower or fake-summoner weapons like the Nimbus Rod.

Additional synergy with the Forbidden Armor, where the Sandstorm can be utilized as a proper weapon without interfering with whip stacking. Because for some reason, it uses mana.

---

So, there you go. Just an idea I had that I thought I'd share.

I actually really like this

I did also consider making the bonus 25%, allowing it to function as an actual early avenger emblem if used right, but 25% seems a bit too powerful even with the gimmick.

Yeah, definitely not. 20% seems just about perfect.

As a final note: Tinkers weren't acknowledged previously because it's meant to be an offensive counterpart to Frozen Wings, which don't have tinkers either. However, I did have some ideas:

I think this accessory is pretty strong already and feels a bit weird being combined.

 

[FroststormFrenzy]

I do feel like being absolutely fair to each side would entail just... giving a Sand Feather or something to Sand Elementals for their own wings. I do like the concept, but I think it could have different obtainability and at least a Frost equivalent.

I feel like not giving it a Frost counterpart makes more sense.

1. The corresponding weapons are also different. Frost has a whip, made with both souls and a single frost core, while Forbidden has the Spirit Flame, requiring two Forbidden Fragments, only one type of soul, and the spirit lamp
2. Frost Armor already beats out Forbidden Armor, with this being intended to bridge that gap. Adding an equivalent accessory for Frost goes against that balancing attempt.
3. The idea here is that it balances out, using mage weapons increases your summon damage, using summon weapons lets your mana regen to increase your magic damage, but both can alter their playstyle to achieve the full effect. Neither Melee nor Ranger have a resource that works the same way. You don't need to spend any resources to use melee weapons, and tying it to remaining ammo favors melee too heavily, since ammo doesn't naturally replenish and can just be trashed.

...As much as I want to, considering, you know, Mana works better for this concept than anything the other classes have.

 

[Coleyohley]

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Forbidden Charm
Recipe:

• 1x Ancient Charm
• 10x Soul of Night
• 1x Dark Shard

Grants up to 20% Magic Damage as mana increases, and 20% Summon Damage as mana decreases.

This is really good, I like it!

EXHIBIT A​

---

The primary use case as a multiclass option. Emptying your mana bar with your chosen magic weapon, then, instead of using a mana potion to keep attacking, you'd switch to your whips for whip stacking as your mana regenerates on its own, using the full damage bonus for both classes. This is how I initially envisioned it being used, as it gives a dedicated window for whip stacking as well as encouraging proper mana management.

Whip Stacking is not an intended mechanic; I think it's kinda fun, but it's also a bit dubious whether we should be designing items around it. I'm fine with it though.

EXHIBIT B​

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Instead of allowing the mana bar to deplete fully, you'd aim to keep it around halfway, using a constant 10% boost for both classes. This approach allows it to function as a pre-mech Avenger Emblem, while once again encouraging mana management over blindly firing and letting the Mana Flower do the rest. A lot more tedious, as it makes the player switch classes more frequently, but more consistent in DPS, still using the regen time to perform whip stacking.

That sounds like a lot more trouble than it's worth, but 20% even split across multiple damage types is still pretty good, so I think it'll still see use. I mean, I'd use it!

A simple mechanic of mana regeneration: The more mana you have remaining, the faster your mana regeneration is. Cutting off your attacks when your bar reaches halfway, letting your mana regenerate, then attacking again, which seems to be how mage was intended to be played from the start. The damage bonus of the Forbidden Charm reduces the damage penalty suffered from not attacking for a little while, making this approach more viable.

Mana Regeneration Potion turns this entire mechanic off and always regenerates your mana at the same rate while active. Without the potion the regeneration may as well be unusable, so in reality you would never be playing around this mechanic if you're using mana regeneration instead of mana potions.

You also wouldn't stop attacking, you'd just use a weapon that didn't consume mana; that being said, Mana Regeneration Potion refills  all your mana, no matter how much it is, in around 3.5 seconds, so really you'd only use the other weapon for 1-2 seconds, or miss 1-2 seconds of DPS if you stopped attacking. That  could add up over time, but it's probably not a huge deal.

EXHIBIT D: Pure Summoner​

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Summoner also has a fairly simple use for this accessory, even without using the Golden Shower for support. Sentries.

Sentries provide a way for summoners to waste mana, which is especially useful in large arenas where you'll often fly out of range. The mana cost of relocating sentries back in range allows summoners to reliably trigger its damage boost without needing to rely on the Golden Shower or fake-summoner weapons like the Nimbus Rod.

Like I said, mana regeneration without the potion may as well be 0, so if you forgo the potion then this is actually is a super neat strategy!

Frankly, however, I don't think mana should work like that to begin with. In the ideal world, this would be a terrible strategy, but I doubt mana will be overhauled like that at this point, so you work with what you have, I guess.

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So, there you go. Just an idea I had that I thought I'd share.

I really like it!

As a final note: Tinkers weren't acknowledged previously because it's meant to be an offensive counterpart to Frozen Wings, which don't have tinkers either. However, I did have some ideas:

I think Tinkers would be cool, let's hear 'em!

• Mana Regeneration Charm: Forbidden Charm + Mana Regeneration Band. Retains the increased mana regeneration, which is lost when upgrading to Magic Cuffs, better supporting the burst mage playstyle.

Mana Regeneration Band is awful in hardmode, I would never make this. Mana in general is just not limited or punishing enough a resource that something that mininal would be useful.

• Forbidden Cuffs: Forbidden Charm + Celestial Cuffs. Probably too powerful, though.
  • Note: Due to the cuffs lacking the regen effect of the band, both tinkers could reasonably coexist.

This could be cool! I think Celestial Cuffs are a bit weak since they only restore mana when you get hit (which mage would really rather not be, at least until spectre armour), and the magnet can be tinkered with other items, so adding them to an effect I would want anyway sounds great.

• Sun Charm: Forbidden Charm + Sun Stone. References the interaction between the Forbidden Sign and Safeman's Sunny Day.
  • Could alternatively be Celestial Charm with the Celestial Stone.

This is pretty cool! Would be great against Fishron, Martians, OOA, Pillars, and Moon Lord. I would probably use it.

• Forbidden Cloak: Forbidden Charm + Star Cloak. Serves as an alternative to the Mana Cloak.
  • Possible bonus effect: Stars explode into dust clouds upon hitting a tile, dealing damage over time to nearby enemies.

Mana Cloak is another awful item that needs some help, though its problems are fundamental to the mana system rather than just limited to its own effect. The bonus effect could be decent for invasions, though.

• Sandstorm Charm: Forbidden Charm + Sandstorm in a Bottle. Dust clouds left behind by the double jump deal damage over time to nearby enemies. (Overrides Sandstorm Jump from other accessories)

Not much thought was put into these, they're just listed as concepts.

Trying to use this as an attack would be miserable, I've tried items like these before in mods and they're just so hard to get any use out of. This would need to deal absolutely obscene damage to be worth it.

...Huh? I missed something?

What do you-

EXHIBIT E​

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View attachment 517107​

Don't get rid of this. This is funny. This is awesome.

 

[FroststormFrenzy]

Mana Regeneration Potion turns this entire mechanic off and always regenerates your mana at the same rate while active. Without the potion the regeneration may as well be unusable, so in reality you would never be playing around this mechanic if you're using mana regeneration instead of mana potions.

You also wouldn't stop attacking, you'd just use a weapon that didn't consume mana; that being said, Mana Regeneration Potion refills  all your mana, no matter how much it is, in around 3.5 seconds, so really you'd only use the other weapon for 1-2 seconds, or miss 1-2 seconds of DPS if you stopped attacking. That  could add up over time, but it's probably not a huge deal.

Mana regen potions are honestly kinda overtuned, so I just didn't take them into consideration when making this post. Ideally they'd be less powerful and not effectively disable mana in its entirely lol

Also, this section was about singleclass mage, not having another class to fall back on during regen, which is why I mentioned not attacking (since using your mage weapons pauses mana regen). Unless you're using Meteor Armor Zap, that wouldn't be much of an option.

Trying to use this as an attack would be miserable, I've tried items like these before in mods and they're just so hard to get any use out of. This would need to deal absolutely obscene damage to be worth it.

The idea was that it'd be some minor passive damage, not something you'd go out of your way to use. You'd still primarily want to use the sandstorm jump for mobility, not damage. Though yeah, probably not worth it, it was just a "This could be cool" idea.

 

[Heliodoros]

I find it very creative. The problem is that this accessory is too good, how about 15%? Exhibit E makes me laugh, actually, it's interpretation, and it really is OP

UPD: Actually it's fair. Using Meteorite Armor in hardmode means playing as Glass-Cannon, so it's actually good. I even think that 20% is enough.

 

[Asternove]

I feel like not giving it a Frost counterpart makes more sense.

1. The corresponding weapons are also different. Frost has a whip, made with both souls and a single frost core, while Forbidden has the Spirit Flame, requiring two Forbidden Fragments, only one type of soul, and the spirit lamp

Frankly, I don’t know why Frost Cores have a weapon of the opposite thing. Spirit Flame os stupid expensive as well.

1. Frost Armor already beats out Forbidden Armor, with this being intended to bridge that gap. Adding an equivalent accessory for Frost goes against that balancing attempt.

Then buff Forbidden itself?

These two points should be solved by tweaking the game itself instead of adding another item to make Forbidden better.

The idea here is that it balances out, using mage weapons increases your summon damage, using summon weapons lets your mana regen to increase your magic damage, but both can alter their playstyle to achieve the full effect. Neither Melee nor Ranger have a resource that works the same way. You don't need to spend any resources to use melee weapons, and tying it to remaining ammo favors melee too heavily, since ammo doesn't naturally replenish and can just be trashed.
...As much as I want to, considering, you know, Mana works better for this concept than anything the other classes have.

Health. High HP gives Melee damage and defense so you can effectively use the close-up weapons; low HP gives Ranged damage and crit so you can regen from a safe distance.

 

[Coleyohley]

Mana regen potions are honestly kinda overtuned, so I just didn't take them into consideration when making this post. Ideally they'd be less powerful and not effectively disable mana in its entirely lol

Conpared to mana potions they're actually terrible, at least once hardmode rolls around. The damage penalty from drinking mana potions is wildly overstated and the damage lost from not attacking while your mana regenerates far outpaces mana sickness. Once super mana potions roll around (and you have max mana to make the most or all of them, there is only one weapon in hardmode (Last Prism) that reaches the dreaded "sinkhole" where you drink mana potions faster than the sickness wears off.

The actual loss from sickness is very small, usually around 7-8% depending on the weapon.

Also, this section was about singleclass mage, not having another class to fall back on during regen, which is why I mentioned not attacking (since using your mage weapons pauses mana regen). Unless you're using Meteor Armor Zap, that wouldn't be much of an option.

There's nothing stopping you from using one anyway aside from your own rules. It'll do less damage, but some damage is better than no damage.

The idea was that it'd be some minor passive damage, not something you'd go out of your way to use. You'd still primarily want to use the sandstorm jump for mobility, not damage. Though yeah, probably not worth it, it was just a "This could be cool" idea.

I normally worldhop for Bundle of Balloons (worldhopping is easy and fishing is miserable, I'm not sure why they decided to do it like that), so I would never use my Sandstorm on this, but I suppose if you weren't willing to get everything else then this might be a pretty good item to tack onto your Sandstorm. It would be really cool if the sand stuck around for a while as a lingering damage cloud, having a sentry that you can activate just by jumping sounds awesome.

 

[Heliodoros]

I normally worldhop for Bundle of Balloons (worldhopping is easy and fishing is miserable, I'm not sure why they decided to do it like that)

I guess I'm strange, I actually love fishing

 

[Asternove]

I guess I'm strange, I actually love fishing

Fishing is fine, it’s just that the Sandstorm in a Bottle is a 1/35 from something I usually get one of per every other minute fishing with maxed out gear and potions.

I’d rather not spend 48 minutes when not even factoring in RNG. Sure, it’s possible to get it earlier, but it’s just as possible to get it later.

 

[Heliodoros]

Fishing is fine, it’s just that the Sandstorm in a Bottle is a 1/35 from something I usually get one of per every other minute fishing with maxed out gear and potions.

I’d rather not spend 48 minutes when not even factoring in RNG. Sure, it’s possible to get it earlier, but it’s just as possible to get it later.

You're right. There was a time when I used Budle of Balloons instead of Wings, but nowadays I prefer wings for mobility.

 

[Asternove]

You're right. There was a time when I used Budle of Balloons instead of Wings, but nowadays I prefer wings for mobility.

I just worldhop

 

[Heliodoros]

I just worldhop

I personally ban this activity in my playthroughs. I consider this cheating in some way and prefer to get everthing from current world. Maybe that is the reason why I love fishing.

 

[J Bame]

Ancient Charm
33% drop from Sand Elementals.
Resembles a smaller, rusty, silver version of the Forbidden Armor's Forbidden Sign minion.

Not really much to say.

---

Forbidden Charm
Recipe:

• 1x Ancient Charm
• 10x Soul of Night
• 1x Dark Shard

Given that the ancient charm is only used for the Forbidden charm, and that recipe is so simple, you can just make the Elemental drop the Forbidden charm and save yourself the trouble of making another item.

[]EXHIBIT A[/]

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The primary use case as a multiclass option. Emptying your mana bar with your chosen magic weapon, then, instead of using a mana potion to keep attacking, you'd switch to your whips for whip stacking as your mana regenerates on its own, using the full damage bonus for both classes. This is how I initially envisioned it being used, as it gives a dedicated window for whip stacking as well as encouraging proper mana management.

this is a very natural way of making you want to use whips with forbidden armor, i like it.

[]EXHIBIT B[/]

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Instead of allowing the mana bar to deplete fully, you'd aim to keep it around halfway, using a constant 10% boost for both classes. This approach allows it to function as a pre-mech Avenger Emblem, while once again encouraging mana management over blindly firing and letting the Mana Flower do the rest. A lot more tedious, as it makes the player switch classes more frequently, but more consistent in DPS, still using the regen time to perform whip stacking.

eh, more trouble than it's worth, statistically speaking using it like in exhibit A already averages out to a 10% boost to both classes

[]EXHIBIT D: Pure Summoner[/]

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Summoner also has a fairly simple use for this accessory, even without using the Golden Shower for support. Sentries.

Sentries provide a way for summoners to waste mana, which is especially useful in large arenas where you'll often fly out of range. The mana cost of relocating sentries back in range allows summoners to reliably trigger its damage boost without needing to rely on the Golden Shower or fake-summoner weapons like the Nimbus Rod.

Additional synergy with the Forbidden Armor, where the Sandstorm can be utilized as a proper weapon without interfering with whip stacking. Because for some reason, it uses mana.

i dont think sentries could ever possibly drain enough mana to turn this into 20% more damage

there might be a meta out there where you never increase your max mana so you can instantly drain it and get the damage bonus, but that sounds like a lot of work for what's essentially 1/3rd of a summoner emblem, so it doesnt really matter

Forbidden Cuffs: Forbidden Charm + Celestial Cuffs. Probably too powerful, though.

• Note: Due to the cuffs lacking the regen effect of the band, both tinkers could reasonably coexist.

a tinker with Celestial Magnet is dangerous, when that item is active you basically have infinite mana when enemies are around

a tinker with mana cuffs is a very, very welcome buff to one of the worst accessories in the game.

 

[Asternove]

I think having it Tinker into a Mana-affecting accessory would mess with the point of "using it to flop between Mage and Summoner" or at least stop that build from working properly. I'd personally keep it as its own thing, but if you had to tinker it I'd use something neutral-class like Putrid Scent or something.

 

[Coleyohley]

I dont think sentries could ever possibly drain enough mana to turn this into 20% more damage

It's actually not that hard, mana regen without some kind of potion is next to unusable, it'd take ages to regenerate and you'd only need to resummon every 10-15 seconds or so (yes, base mana regen while moving really is that miserable).

My main concern with this strategy is that sentry staves have terribly slow usetime and taking the time to drain 200 mana with them will almost certainly lose you more damage than you'll gain from the accessory.

there might be a meta out there where you never increase your max mana so you can instantly drain it and get the damage bonus, but that sounds like a lot of work for what's essentially 1/3rd of a summoner emblem.

Do you mean 2/3rds? Also that sounds miserable to play otherwise since summons cost mana that I doubt people would consider doing that. I certainly wouldn't. There's also no way to decrease your max mana once you've used Mana Stars so that's also a huge blow to this strategy.

 

[Mille Marteaux]

Also that sounds miserable to play otherwise since summons cost mana that I doubt people would consider doing that.

i mean admittedly the idea of drinking three or four mana potions to summon all your minions is incredibly funny