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Full Game Accessory Tier List

What rank should the Shark Tooth Necklace and the Stinger Necklace be at?

  • B rank

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • C rank

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • D rank

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • F rank

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
I’ve unironically died while prepping for vampire knives before getting hits off and getting my healing, more than once. It’s not an issue of staying close range to heal, it’s getting close enough to start healing when your health is almost gone.
I never feel like I have to get closer, I just switch to vampire knives and start throwing and I get a lot of healing. Maybye I tend to stay closer to bosses than most people considering the reactons I got when I posted a video of me fighting empress of light and staying in kaleidiscope range for 90% of the fight.

Keep in mind I very rarely use the vampire knives because I never get out of my way to farm for biome keys combined with the fact that they're only obtainable on 50% of worlds, but on the few worlds I do get them its like wtf this is so broken.
 

Dreadnautilus5000

Brain of Cthulhu
As @whoneedsnamestbh seems to have noticed, I decided to rank accessory modifiers. Menacing used to have A rank, which was the same as Lucky, but I thought "summoners can't deal critical hits, and Lucky isn't as consistent as Menacing", so I wanted Menacing to be higher than it. B rank would be too low for Lucky, since Warding and Violent are there and they are worse than Lucky, so I went ahead and moved Menacing to S, since these ranks are only relative to the other modifiers.

Also, does anyone want me to add colour?
 

starman2995

Terrarian
As @whoneedsnamestbh seems to have noticed, I decided to rank accessory modifiers. Menacing used to have A rank, which was the same as Lucky, but I thought "summoners can't deal critical hits, and Lucky isn't as consistent as Menacing", so I wanted Menacing to be higher than it. B rank would be too low for Lucky, since Warding and Violent are there and they are worse than Lucky, so I went ahead and moved Menacing to S, since these ranks are only relative to the other modifiers.

Also, does anyone want me to add colour?
It could just be personal preference, but I think that in most situations, lucky is better than menacing. It adds more to your overall damage output than menacing does; that's why all the late-game accessories that give crit give less than their damage% equivalents. Since lucky and menacing give the same value, unlike those accessories, I think it should be prioritized above menacing. Because of the problems you mentioned of consistency and summoners, I would have them be equal; I don't think that menacing deserves to be above lucky.

As for the rest, I think the list is pretty fair. At first glance, I thought warding should be higher, but I think it might be fair where it is (it is definitely below the damage modifiers, above pretty much everything else, though I haven't tested melee speed to see how it compares). Also, I think colors would be cool.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
As @whoneedsnamestbh seems to have noticed, I decided to rank accessory modifiers. Menacing used to have A rank, which was the same as Lucky, but I thought "summoners can't deal critical hits, and Lucky isn't as consistent as Menacing", so I wanted Menacing to be higher than it. B rank would be too low for Lucky, since Warding and Violent are there and they are worse than Lucky, so I went ahead and moved Menacing to S, since these ranks are only relative to the other modifiers.

Also, does anyone want me to add colour?
I would put menacing and lucky on the same rank, menacing is better but not by enough to put lucky on a lower rank.

Consistency is already impossible as every attack you do has a random damage fluctuation. You're never counting your shots.

Here are the real differences between the two on most builds the difference in effects are really small.
-Minions can't crit since every build can have up to 3 minion slots free this effects every build, but if you're a pure summoner than lucky does nothing for you.
For example 3 ruthless xeno minions have a base dps of 382.5dps, which means every menacing modifer adds about 15dps on top of whatever bonuses it gives to your main weapon.

-Damage bonuses deal with enemy defense better since critical hits happen after enemy defense reduces it, this is pretty small late game though.

-Critical hit chance is usually the lower stat so lucky is better at reaching an equilibrium, this is actually a pretty small in practice lets say you have a shroomite head piece, a red riding dress and red ridding pants, a celestial stone, a sniper scope, a destroyer emblem, and exquisitly stuffed.
That's 65% damage and 39% critical chance, this means you get an average of 2.29x damage.
With all menacing (expert mode) you are at 89% damage and 39% crit averaging to 2.63x damage.
With all lucky (expert mode) you are at 65% damage and 63% crit averaging to 2.69x damage.

-Critical hits are the only way to increase the dps of the spectre mask set bonus, menacing makes the orbs do more damage but it also reduces the fire rate of the orbs (at a ate that perfectly cancels the damage). Since critical hits are registered on hit the game can't penalize them for dealing double damage, this means that the spectre emask set bonuses effectively stabilizes at 400dps x critical hit rate. This would mean every lucky modifier adds 16dps to the set bonus in addition to its effects on your main weapon.
 
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starman2995

Terrarian
I would put menacing and lucky on the same rank, menacing is better but not by enough to put lucky on a lower rank.

Consistency is already impossible as every attack you do has a random damage fluctuation. You're never counting your shots.

Here are the real differences between the two on most builds the difference in effects are really small.
-Minions can't crit since every build can have up to 3 minion slots free this effects every build, but if you're a pure summoner than lucky does nothing for you.
For example 3 ruthless xeno minions have a base dps of 382.5dps, which means every menacing modifer adds about 15dps on top of whatever bonuses it gives to your main weapon.

-Damage bonuses deal with enemy defense better since critical hits happen after enemy defense reduces it, this is pretty small late game though.

-Critical hit chance is usually the lower stat so lucky is better at reaching an equilibrium, this is actually a pretty small in practice lets say you have a shroomite head piece, a red riding dress and red ridding pants, a celestial stone, a sniper scope, a destroyer emblem, and exquisitly stuffed.
That's 65% damage and 39% critical chance, this means you get an average of 2.29x damage.
With all menacing (expert mode) you are at 89% damage and 39% crit averaging to 2.63x damage.
With all lucky (expert mode) you are at 65% damage and 63% crit averaging to 2.69x damage.

-Critical hits are the only way to increase the dps of the spectre mask set bonus, menacing makes the orbs do more damage but it also reduces the fire rate of the orbs (at a ate that perfectly cancels the damage). Since critical hits are registered on hit the game can't penalize them for dealing double damage, this means that the spectre emask set bonuses effectively stabilizes at 400dps x critical hit rate. This would mean every lucky modifier adds 16dps to the set bonus in addition to its effects on your main weapon.
I'll say that your accounting for minions is fair, but you aren't accounting for everything in your calculation. For things you left out of your calculation, you have 1. Potions (magic power/tipsy/archery, rage, wrath) 2. Weapon modifier 3. Weapon station buff (mainly for mages).

Here's my quick example to account for (I think) everything (basically ideal situation where you are fighting a boss with max buffs): Say you're at the start of hardmode and you have titanium armor, playing as a mage, for 23% dmg and 13% crit. We'll say you have a sorcerer emblem to add 15% dmg. We'll also assume that you are using full potions and food buffs, which means exquisitely stuffed for 10% dmg and 4% crit, rage/wrath for 10% crit & dmg, and magic power for 20% dmg. You'll also have the crystal ball for 5% dmg and 2% crit at this point. The final thing to add is having Mythical on your weapon for 15% dmg and 5% crit. I'll also add in the 7th accessory slot that you get in master mode for 28% of either crit or dmg, because if you are min-maxing this hard, you are probably playing on the hardest difficulty. So at base, we have:
armor:emblem:food:wrath/rage:mythical:magic power:base crit:crystal ball
23 + 15 + 10 + 10 + 15 + 20 + 0 + 5 = 98% dmg
13 + 0 + 4 + 10 + 5 + 0 + 4 + 2 = 38% crit
Then with 28% worth of accessories:
Menacing: 2.26 * 1.38 = 3.1188x damage
Lucky: 1.98 * 1.66 = 3.2868x damage
The difference between menacing and lucky is then a 0.168x damage multiplier, or about 17% higher damage output with lucky over menacing. To me, that seems like a very substantial difference. I will concede that, when using minions, they might compensate for that damage loss or overtake it entirely. I just wanted to show that minions aside, lucky has a substantial increase over menacing when taking all factors/buffs into consideration.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
I'll say that your accounting for minions is fair, but you aren't accounting for everything in your calculation. For things you left out of your calculation, you have 1. Potions (magic power/tipsy/archery, rage, wrath) 2. Weapon modifier 3. Weapon station buff (mainly for mages).

Here's my quick example to account for (I think) everything (basically ideal situation where you are fighting a boss with max buffs): Say you're at the start of hardmode and you have titanium armor, playing as a mage, for 23% dmg and 13% crit. We'll say you have a sorcerer emblem to add 15% dmg. We'll also assume that you are using full potions and food buffs, which means exquisitely stuffed for 10% dmg and 4% crit, rage/wrath for 10% crit & dmg, and magic power for 20% dmg. You'll also have the crystal ball for 5% dmg and 2% crit at this point. The final thing to add is having Mythical on your weapon for 15% dmg and 5% crit. I'll also add in the 7th accessory slot that you get in master mode for 28% of either crit or dmg, because if you are min-maxing this hard, you are probably playing on the hardest difficulty. So at base, we have:
armor:emblem:food:wrath/rage:mythical:magic power:base crit:crystal ball
23 + 15 + 10 + 10 + 15 + 20 + 0 + 5 = 98% dmg
13 + 0 + 4 + 10 + 5 + 0 + 4 + 2 = 38% crit
Then with 28% worth of accessories:
Menacing: 2.26 * 1.38 = 3.1188x damage
Lucky: 1.98 * 1.66 = 3.2868x damage
The difference between menacing and lucky is then a 0.168x damage multiplier, or about 17% higher damage output with lucky over menacing. To me, that seems like a very substantial difference. I will concede that, when using minions, they might compensate for that damage loss or overtake it entirely. I just wanted to show that minions aside, lucky has a substantial increase over menacing when taking all factors/buffs into consideration.
Weapon damage modifer altar base damage, which means you can't just count it as a damage bonus any damage increase you gain from a weapon modifer stacks multiplicative with damage bonuses. So this is more like
83% damage
38% crit
15% weapon modifer damage

So that's
Menacing: 2.11 * 1.38 * 1.15 = 3.35x damage
Lucky: 1.83 * 1.66 * 1.15 = 3.49x damage
So looking at the difference 3.49 - 3.35 = 0.14

So how much dps is that difference? Well lets say you use crystal storm.
Crystal strom has a use time of 7 with mythical 6 so that's 10 aps.
32 base damage * 10 aps = 320 base dps
With a mana cost of 4 and 300 mana per potion that's 7.5 seconds for every potion you drink (mana potions are easier to calculate than 'use non magic weapon while mana recharges')
mana sickness reduces your dps by an average of 8%
So 320 * 0.92 = 294.4dps
So lucky gets you an extra 294.4 * 0.14 = 41.2dps


Alright now let's look at minions.
A ruthless sanguine bat has 37 base dps, you can get 3 minions for free for 111dps.
This means that menacing gives you 31.1 extra dps from your summons
This can also be thought of as 31.1 / 294.4 = 0.106 or 10.6% of dps

So after factoring in minions lucky gets you a total of 3.4% extra damage bonus, or 10.1dps

Also keep in mind this is titanium armor specificly.
Adamatite armor has 20% damage/19% crit so its gap will be even smaller.
There's also the mixed build where you use a ada/titanium head piece + forbidden body and legs, I don't think I need to explain why this is more biased towards menacing.
Also other classes don't have magic pow potions.
Tipsy is only 10% melee damage
Archery stacks multiplicative with damage and crit so crit doesn't have any special advantage with it.
This ALSO assumes you are perfectly accurate with your crystal storm.
 
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starman2995

Terrarian
Weapon damage modifer altar base damage, which means you can't just count it as a damage bonus any damage increase you gain from a weapon modifer stacks multiplicative with damage bonuses. So this is more like
83% damage
38% crit
15% weapon modifer damage

So that's
Menacing: 2.11 * 1.38 * 1.15 = 3.35x damage
Lucky: 1.83 * 1.66 * 1.15 = 3.49x damage
So looking at the difference 3.49 - 3.35 = 0.14

So how much dps is that difference? Well lets say you use crystal storm.
Crystal strom has a use time of 7 with mythical 6 so that's 10 aps.
32 base damage * 10 aps = 320 base dps
With a mana cost of 4 and 300 mana per potion that's 7.5 seconds for every potion you drink (mana potions are easier to calculate than 'use non magic weapon while mana recharges')
mana sickness reduces your dps by an average of 8%
So 320 * 0.92 = 294.4dps
So lucky gets you an extra 294.4 * 0.14 = 41.2dps


Alright now let's look at minions.
A ruthless sanguine bat has 37 base dps, you can get 3 minions for free for 111dps.
This means that menacing gives you 31.1 extra dps from your summons
This can also be thought of as 31.1 / 294.4 = 0.106 or 10.6% of dps

So after factoring in minions lucky gets you a total of 3.4% extra damage bonus, or 10.1dps

Also keep in mind this is titanium armor specificly.
Adamatite armor has 20% damage/19% crit so its gap will be even smaller.
There's also the mixed build where you use a ada/titanium head piece + forbidden body and legs, I don't think I need to explain why this is more biased towards menacing.
Also other classes don't have magic pow potions.
Tipsy is only 10% melee damage
Archery stacks multiplicative with damage and crit so crit doesn't have any special advantage with it.
This ALSO assumes you are perfectly accurate with your crystal storm.
These are all valid points; I didn't realize that weapon modifier damage didn't act like other dmg bonuses. As I said at the end of my post, it is fair that minions could match the damage loss you get from menacing. I just wanted to demonstrate that the extra buffs you could get make lucky more and more appealing, which weren't really factored in.

There are two more things to discuss: 1. Most minions are far less consistent against bosses than the sanguine staff, especially at this stage of the game. Assuming full preparations for the boss, however, it is fair to assume that you have them. 2. I really don't know if this would make a difference in your calculations, but you didn't add in the base dmg% you already get from your buffs with the sanguine staff. Edit: I did the calculation and it didn't matter, so I removed it to keep from clogging this thread too much with repeat calculations. The conclusion is the same, that lucky only has ~10 dps higher than menacing if you are dealing ~320 dps when using bats with both.

This isn't definitive proof that lucky is 100% better, but it will hopefully show that with factoring in the imbalances in all buffs between menacing and lucky, the difference between them is really small.
 
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qwerty3.14

Terrarian
These are all valid points; I didn't realize that weapon modifier damage didn't act like other dmg bonuses. As I said at the end of my post, it is fair that minions could match the damage loss you get from menacing. I just wanted to demonstrate that the extra buffs you could get make lucky more and more appealing, which weren't really factored in.
The main difference between my analogy and your analogy is that I did post plantera ranger and you did pre mech mage.
Adding in wrath/rage wouldn't have done much because that adds both 10% damage and crit.
Arrow damage, like weapon modifers is multiplicative with both damage and crit so it wouldn't bias damage or crit.


There are two more things to discuss: 1. Most minions are far less consistent against bosses than the sanguine staff, especially at this stage of the game. Assuming full preparations for the boss, however, it is fair to assume that you have them.
Which is why I brought up the xeno staff and sanguine staff, those minions are as reliable as chlorophyte bullets.
Blade and desert tiger are also reliable against flying bosses, but blades don't really care for % damage bonuses, and the desert tiger is a bit chaotic sanguine and xeno are much easier to calculate.

2. I really don't know if this would make a difference in your calculations, but you didn't add in the base dmg% you already get from your buffs with the sanguine staff. So just for sake of getting everything correct, I'll do that calculation.
The reason I didn't count those buffs is because of algebra.

Consider
B= minion base dps
A= damage bonuses from armor/accessories/buffs
M= Menacing damage bonus

The minion's dps would be
B(1 + A + M) for menacing build
B(1 + A) for lucky build
So the benefit to menacing would be
B(1+A+M) - B(1+ A) = B(1+A+M-1-A) = B(M)
 

starman2995

Terrarian
Alright, so I just realized that I misunderstood your latest calculation and we actually got the same answer in the end, so I think I'll edit out my repeat calculations. For the rest, I think your points are valid. I think we've both made a strong case for our sides and I don't think there are really any more points we need to bring up. We both agree that menacing and lucky should be on the same tier since they are so comparable, and which you prefer is pretty much a matter of opinion. It was fun discussing this with you guys, it gave me a better understanding of this overall.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
1620169817398.png


Some members of Bame's discord got together and worked on this tier list.
We didn't rank wings or any items that were considered 'redundent'

We did use different definitions for tiers
SS, for some reason a lot of people were insistent that soaring insignia deserved its own tier
S, very useful for a long time
A, Useful in most situations, but doesn't stand on a pedestl compared to alternatives
B, situationally useful
C, Very niche utility
D, Useless but harmless
F, crafting this is a waste making it harder to get a better accesory.
 

whoneedsnamestbh

Eater of Worlds
View attachment 319861

Some members of Bame's discord got together and worked on this tier list.
We didn't rank wings or any items that were considered 'redundent'

We did use different definitions for tiers
SS, for some reason a lot of people were insistent that soaring insignia deserved its own tier
S, very useful for a long time
A, Useful in most situations, but doesn't stand on a pedestl compared to alternatives
B, situationally useful
C, Very niche utility
D, Useless but harmless
F, crafting this is a waste making it harder to get a better accesory.
Admittedly, I’m just nitpicking, but there’s a core issue I have with Stinker Necklace being the one in S: weak, low damage bees that interrupt pierce. I see Stinker Necklace as a downgrade to Shark Tooth.

Why does this matter? Well, Shark Tooth and Stinger are really separate entities. Shark Tooth is the one you use when you just need 5 defense ignorance, and Stinger is the weaker one that you add on to build onto the stats, not the other way around. I’d personally put Shark Tooth in S, and if we kept Stinger here put it in A or B.
 

Omega Derpling

Plantera
Admittedly, I’m just nitpicking, but there’s a core issue I have with Stinker Necklace being the one in S: weak, low damage bees that interrupt pierce. I see Stinker Necklace as a downgrade to Shark Tooth.

Why does this matter? Well, Shark Tooth and Stinger are really separate entities. Shark Tooth is the one you use when you just need 5 defense ignorance, and Stinger is the weaker one that you add on to build onto the stats, not the other way around. I’d personally put Shark Tooth in S, and if we kept Stinger here put it in A or B.
It was placed there because qwerty did the math and the honey buff it also grants on hit can actually rival the worm scarf’s total damage reduction in prehardmode (as long as you don’t get hit repeatedly)
 

J Bame

Terrarian
Admittedly, I’m just nitpicking, but there’s a core issue I have with Stinker Necklace being the one in S: weak, low damage bees that interrupt pierce. I see Stinker Necklace as a downgrade to Shark Tooth.

Why does this matter? Well, Shark Tooth and Stinger are really separate entities. Shark Tooth is the one you use when you just need 5 defense ignorance, and Stinger is the weaker one that you add on to build onto the stats, not the other way around. I’d personally put Shark Tooth in S, and if we kept Stinger here put it in A or B.
It was put in S after some math about the Honey Comb's regen. Honey Comb's regen can be seen as -5 damage taken every 5 seconds (since Honey is +1hp/s, not counting the accelerated life regen). After defense from armor and buffs a lot of hits in preHardmode deal 30-50 damage. Honey Comb would reduce this to 25-45, while for comparison Worm scarf reduces to 24-41. The fact that its defensive effect can be competent on top of its great offensive utility made us raise it to S.

As for the bees causing iframes... does it really matter? We are talking 2 bees every 5 seconds here, plus it's not like the bees dont deal any damage on their own.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
Admittedly, I’m just nitpicking, but there’s a core issue I have with Stinker Necklace being the one in S: weak, low damage bees that interrupt pierce. I see Stinker Necklace as a downgrade to Shark Tooth.
In expert mode Wall of flesh's lasers do like 60 damage
With necro armor + SoC + Free defense buffs that's 33 defense.
This lowers the laser damage to 35.
With worm scarf the damag is lowered to 29, you effectively take 6 less damage.
The honeycomb effect gives you 1hp/s for 5 seconds so as long as you don't get hit again it will effectively reduce damage taken by 5.
Ok so its not quite as good as a worm scarf defensively but its combined with what's effectively a pre hardmode avenger embem. This makes the stinger neckalce like a prehardmode version of the celestial stone.

I hadn't thought about bees potentially being a negative though. Not sure if that really makes a difference


Another thing to note is that we determined that band of regen > worm scarf for pre hardmode. Unlike the honey effect the band of regen is always active so it doesn't care if get hit multiple times in quick succcesion as long as you have a good amount of time afterwards it will out perform the worm scarf. However since it doesn't increase damage output like the stinger necklace does so its only A.

Expert skeletron does 70 damage on contact (I don't know how much the skulls do but we'll assume its also 70 damage).
Lets say your armor has 16 defense, you have a SoC and free defense buffs.
That's 30 defense, this lowers the damage to 47.
Worm scarf cuts off 8 damage. Meaning that band of regen is better if on average you get less often than every 8 seconds.
And remeber skeletron does more damage than most stuff in pre hardmode, the band of regen looks better on weaker attacks.
 

MagicasquirrelTMT

Official Terrarian
I don't know if this has been mentioned anywhere else in this thread before, but one funny thing I discovered for myself about putrid scent is that it actually makes biome mimics ignore the player as well. Of all the enemies in the game, you'd expect such powerful beings, one of which even drops the putrid scent, to be immune to it's tricks - but nope. This makes farming biome mimics completely trivial, as your biggest concern will actually be to not let the thing hop off the screen and despawn. This also makes underground evil biomes and hallow much, much more cute and marketable, especially for summoners, since you won't have to worry as much about getting one-shot by a random mimic.
I doubt this is enough to put putrid scent any higher than it already is, but it is something that should at least be noted for how much easier it can make your life against these menaces.
 
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CellarDoor96

Terrarian
I think you're overvaluing knockback immunity, it's nice but it's far from essential and it becomes basically a non-issue once you gain decent mobility and the ability to attack from range. You can also simply anchor yourself with a grappling hook in any situation where you know you're likely to be knocked around, though at the cost of a small delay before you can start moving again. It certainly isn't enough to carry the Ankh Shield to A rank, not when the Obsidian Shield and Paladin's Shield do the same thing and are much less annoying to obtain.

The Ankh Shield's real value comes from its ability to sit in your vanity slots and get swapped in when you need it to cancel a debuff. If used that way, it's pretty nice though still not really A rank material. I'd place it at B tbh.
 
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