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Has Journey's End shifted Terraria too far into removing player freedom?

Nicol Bolas

Terrarian
I think it is, this is so unnecessary, imagine killing a lady accidentally, or being a new player and not knowing about that, there’s no reason for it.
It's 3 minutes. It lasts 3 minutes. Getting knocked into lava is more dangerous to a new player than bad ladybug luck. So on the scale of what can happen to players accidentally, it's basically a rounding error.

I don't think it's a good idea, but I don't think it's a bad one either. Nor do I think bad ladybug luck alone is a bad enough idea to justify calling luck a "terrible feature". In terms of actual harm caused to actual players, it's pretty trival next to things like getting the WoF summoned on you by accident.
 

Zerobillion

Terrarian
I'm going to assume they tuned the prices of things. Now if you screw up the happiness (as a new player) everything is 150% more expensive.

This is why they should not have prices increase beyond the 1.3 values.
What in the world are you taking about?

NPC Happiness Wiki (Again)

None of the negative modifiers are going to add all the way up to 150% increase even if you intentionaly try to make them as unhappy as possible. Unless you're talking about the flat 150% that only occurs if they're homeless, which considering the vast majority of NPCs don't even spawn unless there is a valid house for them to move into, I can't possibly see how even a new player could screw that up.

Or if they're in the corruption/crimson, but if your base is being overrun by corruption, you have far bigger problems than NPC happiness...

I wonder how many people would even be complaining about this if their complaints weren't based on information that is completely wrong.
 

Heroman3003

Retinazer
Since unhappiness from the overcrowding stacks per every NPC in radius, pretty sure it is possible to reach without trying to.
 

Zerobillion

Terrarian
Since unhappiness from the overcrowding stacks per every NPC in radius, pretty sure it is possible to reach without trying to.
A valid house needs at least 60 tiles. Minimum 5x12 or 8x8 dimensions. Every NPC beyond the first three incurs a 104% penalty (rounded to a 5% increase). How are you going to get so many NPCs all within 25 tiles of each other to reach 150%? Especially unintentionally?? Especially when a new player wouldn't know the minimum house size to minmax compactness??? Especially when you also need to put furniture and probably chests and crafting stations and what not, thus increasing the size of the house???? And even if they did know, using that in order to put NPC houses as close as physically possible would be considered intentional.
 

smeagolheart

Terrarian
That's not even close to being the same situation, in your silly analogy you're implying that someone somehow got access to such a coupon out of the blue and is just not using it for whatever reason, of course no one is going to do that, that's completely stupid.

But that's not what's happening here, in the happiness system, you get a bonus as a reward for your placement of NPCs. That's the difference between this and your analogy. You don't just magically "have a coupon" that you aren't using, the happiness system is how you GET that "coupon". If you don't want to put in the effort, that's fine, you don't have to, but you won't get your coupon that way.
...And the problem we have with this system is it forces you to play exactly 1 kind of way to get the coupon/discount that you would be crazy not to get.

And if the manager doesn't like what you're doing, he'll charge you OVER the sticker price.

Paying the full price is a rip off when there's a massive discount. But to get the discount there's "work involved" that cramps our game.
 

Zerobillion

Terrarian
...And the problem we have with this system is it forces you to play exactly 1 kind of way
Only by your definition is an optional discount something that is being forced upon you.
coupon/discount that you would be crazy not to get.
You'd be crazy if that coupon was being given to for free and you denied it, which as I already said isn't the case, and as with any discussion on the internet we're now just talking in pointless circles, which i wouldn't mind continuing, but it's past 3 AM right now.
And if the manager doesn't like what you're doing he'll charge you OVER the sticker price.
Luckily, "the manager" is a pretty chill, cool guy, and his only requirement is for you to walk for 2 seconds before building a house.
 

lesnor

Spazmatism
Only by your definition is an optional discount something that is being forced upon you.

You'd be crazy if that coupon was being given to for free and you denied it, which as I already said isn't the case, and as with any discussion on the internet we're now just talking in pointless circles, which i wouldn't mind continuing, but it's past 3 AM right now.

Luckily, "the manager" is a pretty chill, cool guy, and his only requirement is for you to walk for 2 seconds before building a house.
Thing is its not up to the manager how we play what if dont want to walk a couple of blocks. The guy is right this game is forcing us to play how the manager plays. VERY LINEAR. No good. Is he some sort of dictator?
 

kinker31

Official Terrarian
Somewhat related to this topic: I actually gave up fairly quickly on a proper Master Mode world as there's no way to actually make any meaningful progression without having to play like how most Terarria YouTubers play as a start.

You kinda have to be quicker than a flash finding the best materials and the best weapons you can find (hint: It ain't any of the melee weapons), or else you're gonna die 5 times in a row: 1 for one single tiny mistake you make, and 4 for respawning either right next to the group of enemies that closed in on you, sometimes even directly on top of said enemy!

Oh, and if you die quite a lit, you're even more likely to die when a graveyard biome gets created from all the tombstones you leave behind, causing even more enemies to spawn and kill you, extending to even the daylight hours! It's not fun gitting gud when there's so many enemies onscreen that there's no feasible way to wait them out, or if you can even get to making the feckin' hole first.

And if you plan on playing hardcore and Master Mode? Hopefully the RNG's on your side, too bad for you if it don't.
 

Nemo

Terrarian
What in the world are you taking about?

NPC Happiness Wiki (Again)

None of the negative modifiers are going to add all the way up to 150% increase even if you intentionaly try to make them as unhappy as possible. Unless you're talking about the flat 150% that only occurs if they're homeless, which considering the vast majority of NPCs don't even spawn unless there is a valid house for them to move into, I can't possibly see how even a new player could screw that up.

Or if they're in the corruption/crimson, but if your base is being overrun by corruption, you have far bigger problems than NPC happiness...

I wonder how many people would even be complaining about this if their complaints weren't based on information that is completely wrong.
NPCs you just met and freed sell at 150% because they are homeless, no?

Arms Dealer can get up to 132% if you hit all his hates and dislikes.

Regardless, they tuned the prices. If you screw up as a cash starved new player who don't know better, life just got harder.
 

Danny Ω

The Destroyer
Thing is its not up to the manager how we play what if dont want to walk a couple of blocks. The guy is right this game is forcing us to play how the manager plays. VERY LINEAR. No good. Is he some sort of dictator?
I'm sorry but the game isn't catering to your tastes perfectly, so don't be so :red:ing entitled. Terraria already gives 4 different playstyles (melee, ranged, magic, summoning) and then allows you to have 3 different types of challenge runs (Journey, Expert, Master) and also allows you to skip bosses (EoC, King Slime, Queen Slime, Duke Fishron, Empress of Light) and allows you to skip caving all together, since the Reaver Shark is still a thing, and the three essential caving accessories (Hermes Boots, Cloud in a Bottle, Magic Mirror) have alternatives somewhere else (Dunerider, Blizzard/Sandstorm, Ice Mirror/Recall).

Redigit is definitely not making you play the way he wants you to.

NPC Happiness is a great mechanic. It makes Terraria have some sort of grasp of logic, put yourself in your NPC's shoes. If someone forced you to live in a tube, would you like it? And it rewards players who put in the time and effort to make great towns, and punishes players who want to take the easy way out. All they ask of you is to build those "Noob cubes" everywhere, so you can have a fast travel system between them!

Luck, well, it hasn't affected me, so I really don't care.

The Reaver Shark is still there, and if you want to fish it up, it skips all ore tiers, so you can use those bars for other things. Its still essentially a big skip in progression.

And I don't stock up on crates.
 
I'm sorry but the game isn't catering to your tastes perfectly, so don't be so :red:ing entitled. Terraria already gives 4 different playstyles (melee, ranged, magic, summoning) and then allows you to have 3 different types of challenge runs (Journey, Expert, Master) and also allows you to skip bosses (EoC, King Slime, Queen Slime, Duke Fishron, Empress of Light) and allows you to skip caving all together, since the Reaver Shark is still a thing, and the three essential caving accessories (Hermes Boots, Cloud in a Bottle, Magic Mirror) have alternatives somewhere else (Dunerider, Blizzard/Sandstorm, Ice Mirror/Recall).

Redigit is definitely not making you play the way he wants you to.

NPC Happiness is a great mechanic. It makes Terraria have some sort of grasp of logic, put yourself in your NPC's shoes. If someone forced you to live in a tube, would you like it? And it rewards players who put in the time and effort to make great towns, and punishes players who want to take the easy way out. All they ask of you is to build those "Noob cubes" everywhere, so you can have a fast travel system between them!

Luck, well, it hasn't affected me, so I really don't care.

The Reaver Shark is still there, and if you want to fish it up, it skips all ore tiers, so you can use those bars for other things. Its still essentially a big skip in progression.

And I don't stock up on crates.
Ah yes because terraria is supposed to be a logical game, that’s why we all play it. It’s fine I definitely don’t mind being forced to build a certain way because a developer selfishly doesn’t like the way other people build.
 
It's 3 minutes. It lasts 3 minutes. Getting knocked into lava is more dangerous to a new player than bad ladybug luck. So on the scale of what can happen to players accidentally, it's basically a rounding error.

I don't think it's a good idea, but I don't think it's a bad one either. Nor do I think bad ladybug luck alone is a bad enough idea to justify calling luck a "terrible feature". In terms of actual harm caused to actual players, it's pretty trival next to things like getting the WoF summoned on you by accident.
interesting, wasn’t aware it was 3 minutes. Seems pointless to implement in the first place...
 

lesnor

Spazmatism
I'm sorry but the game isn't catering to your tastes perfectly, so don't be so :red:ing entitled. Terraria already gives 4 different playstyles (melee, ranged, magic, summoning) and then allows you to have 3 different types of challenge runs (Journey, Expert, Master) and also allows you to skip bosses (EoC, King Slime, Queen Slime, Duke Fishron, Empress of Light) and allows you to skip caving all together, since the Reaver Shark is still a thing, and the three essential caving accessories (Hermes Boots, Cloud in a Bottle, Magic Mirror) have alternatives somewhere else (Dunerider, Blizzard/Sandstorm, Ice Mirror/Recall).

Redigit is definitely not making you play the way he wants you to.

NPC Happiness is a great mechanic. It makes Terraria have some sort of grasp of logic, put yourself in your NPC's shoes. If someone forced you to live in a tube, would you like it? And it rewards players who put in the time and effort to make great towns, and punishes players who want to take the easy way out. All they ask of you is to build those "Noob cubes" everywhere, so you can have a fast travel system between them!

Luck, well, it hasn't affected me, so I really don't care.

The Reaver Shark is still there, and if you want to fish it up, it skips all ore tiers, so you can use those bars for other things. Its still essentially a big skip in progression.

And I don't stock up on crates.
Now you ther is no need to say that. ENTITLED to a say on a game i paid for you mean. Its people like you that ruin games by blindly following desitions be they bad or good. Have a spine man. The devs are wrong with this update and should reverse it. Its split the community. Why they chose to nurf and change stuff after 5 years is beyond me. SHOULD HAVE LEFT WELL ALONE and only added new items that all people wanted, But now we have to play how the devs say. NO THANKS.
 

Danny Ω

The Destroyer
You do know what entitled means, right?
Entitled, adjective: believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
In this situation, you believe you deserve the special treatment of doing whatever you want. If Redigit wants you to play a certain way, and you don't, don't play the game. It's Redigit and Cenx that made this game, not you.

Edit: And I do have a spine, thank you.
 

darthmorf

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Alright everyone. Time to relax.
We've had to warn twice about this thread getting heated and personal. I don't want to have to close it but we will be forced to if you can't keep it civil.
don't be so :red:ing entitled
Now you ther is no need to say that. ENTITLED to a say on a game i paid for you mean. Its people like you that ruin games by blindly following desitions be they bad or good. Have a spine man. The devs are wrong with this update and should reverse it. Its split the community. Why they chose to nurf and change stuff after 5 years is beyond me. SHOULD HAVE LEFT WELL ALONE and only added new items that all people wanted, But now we have to play how the devs say. NO THANKS.
You two in particlar need to cool off. Anything remotely out of line here and you will be individually removed from this thread.
 

Danny Ω

The Destroyer
You two in particlar need to cool off. Anything remotely out of line here and you will be individually removed from this thread.
I wasn't specifically replying to him, just quoted his message since it was the most infuriating. Then he went an attacked me out of nowhere.
But I'll cool off.
 

lesnor

Spazmatism
Alright everyone. Time to relax.
We've had to warn twice about this thread getting heated and personal. I don't want to have to close it but we will be forced to if you can't keep it civil.


You two in particlar need to cool off. Anything remotely out of line here and you will be individually removed from this thread.
I replied to him one time and never attacked him. I was defending myself while staying on topic. He attacked me. I dont know why your warning me i never kept going or nothing. Anyway. Noted
 
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