I think Desert Tiger is a universal Minion/ Pet!?

[Toxophilite [East]]

This new gear combined with the dramatically increased drop rates makes the Vampire Frog much easier to get early on.

I gotta say, even though I was strongly against early-Hardmode Summoner, it does make obtaining Vampire Frog feel much more organic, like it's the next obvious Minion in the progression chain. My only concern is that this transitions seems to break down once you go to the Jungle Biome, Snapthorn feels ok, but Queen Bee's loot pool feels... less impactful. Upgrading Sharktooth Necklace still feels ok, the Armor is a given, but Hornets can likely be skipped. I still can't decide if this is a bad change, or just different... & will take some getting used to.

This is definitely fun though, might be worth the small sacrifice to balance...

 

[Pigman Δ]

I gotta say, even though I was strongly against early-Hardmode Summoner, it does make obtaining Vampire Frog feel much more organic, like it's the next obvious Minion in the progression chain. My only concern is that this transitions seems to break down once you go to the Jungle Biome, Snapthorn feels ok, but Queen Bee's loot pool feels... less impactful. Upgrading Sharktooth Necklace still feels ok, the Armor is a given, but Hornets can likely be skipped. I still can't decide if this is a bad change, or just different... & will take some getting used to.

This is definitely fun though, might be worth the small sacrifice to balance...

Hornets were already skipped by literally EVERYONE, they are AWFUL minions

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Hornets were already skipped by literally EVERYONE, they are AWFUL minions

I can certainly see that being the case now, but prior to the recent updates, I don't see a reason why they would. What was the normal loadout for Bee Armor prior to Flinx? Even if I player was to head to the Underworld to replace Hornets with Imp right away, they'd still see some use I'd assume. Having Beenades, Hivepack + Hornets is too good a combination, what was the usual go-to if Hornets were typically skipped?

 

[whoneedsnamestbh]

I can certainly see that being the case now, but prior to the recent updates, I don't see a reason why they would. What was the normal loadout for Bee Armor prior to Flinx? Even if I player was to head to the Underworld to replace Hornets with Imp right away, they'd still see some use I'd assume. Having Beenades, Hivepack + Hornets is too good a combination, what was the usual go-to if Hornets were typically skipped?

Everyone just got Imps first. You almost always kill the world evil bosses before queen bee anyway, and there’s no reason not to barrel right down to Hell to get the imps and used them on the Queen for bee armor.

 

[whoneedsnamestbh]

On a side note, the 1.4.1 buffs helped Hornet more than they look like. 9 - 11 is effectively a 22% DPS boost despite being 2 points of damage, and since whips are actually usable now, they can profit well from whip tags. They now compete well with Imps.

 

[FalloutGuy645]

Hornets were already skipped by literally EVERYONE, they are AWFUL minions

Am I missing something here? I always used hornets...

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Am I missing something here? I always used hornets...

I think a lot of players were likely using progression skip for Minions, because of Reaver Shark, even though it was nerfed, the Underworld skip wasn't... entirely. Honestly, it does make a lot of sense to use Imps to fight Queen Bee, but I never found it necessary to Metagame in that manner, not even in Master Mode (though I did resort to other progression skips in Hardmode).

 

[NeoPhantom]

Considering the options to fight Queen Bee back then (Slime, Finch or Imp) it shouldnt be a surprise that purists would go directly for Imp Staff as soon as possible to not take ages fighting that boss.

With Vampire Toads being so slow to farm (and being so bad with only the tongue dealing damage), they were honestly skippable.

Finch/Slime was the go-to when not wanting to go straight to Imps, but the damage of both was kinda low so it made for slower fights. More viable than VT though and certainly how most fought QB.


With the recent addition of Flinx as well as fixing VTs you no longer need to skip to Imp to have a fight against QB that doesnt feel as slow. Not that doing so is as easy now that Imp is locked after EoW/BoC. And I always fought those after getting Bee Armor so...



PS: how much better are the Vampire Toads now?

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

PS: how much better are the Vampire Toads now?

I don't wanna oversell them, but I'll say that they're still pretty effective even in Hardmode.

 

[whoneedsnamestbh]

PS: how much better are the Vampire Toads now?

I don't wanna oversell them, but I'll say that they're still pretty effective even in Hardmode.

They’re pretty potent right now. Particular strength against the Wall of Flesh, since they prosper against slow moving, low to the ground enemies. They’re actually very slightly *too* strong for their tier, but they are being evaluated.

In the balance feedback thread, we discussed giving minor nerfs to Vampire Frogs. Not too much because they still need to be able to last the World Evil tier, and because they suck against airborne enemies, but so far we may be looking at a damage reversion from 13 to 11 but no change to the AI buffs.