Casual In an all-out war, would Voldemort or Sauron win?

[neoselket]

my responses are in blue.

Because by the time of LotR, there weren't many Balrogs left. The debate of this thread isn't time specific, so I'm assuming basic meta-battle rules where each side gets the units from the height of their power.

in that case, voldemort gets a basilisk, a giant(venomous) snake that causes instant death to anything that looks into it's eyes. that'll take down a few thousand orcs in the first few seconds. could probably at least cause some minor discomfort in the nazgul, after all the basilisk was even capable of petrifying ghosts. none of sauron's minions seem to have any power over them if the battle of pelennor fields is any indication.

It does bend minds to the will of Sauron and Sauron's will is basically to destroy the age of man and to rule the world as its dark master. Even if you defeated the shadow of Sauron, you would take his place becoming the new Sauron. The new ruler may think they are in control, but they aren't, through the Ring they are following the will of Sauron. It is why Frodo was repeatedly tempted to put the ring on in dangerous situations, even knowing it was a bad idea, because the Ring was influencing him so as to get itself returned to Sauron, because that was Sauron's will.

then why was sauron afraid of someone like Aragorn getting the ring?

Aragorn wasn't descended from "a bunch of really powerful guys", he is descended from a very powerful race of people, the Numenoreans, pretty much a race of Captain Americas with Elf blood and magical aptitude thrown in. It is like saying you could win a boxing match because your father and his father and his father's father were great boxers, but your opponent is a Mountain Giant. One has an impressive family history, the other is from an entire race who's basic physical characteristics outclass the former.

so you're saying that your ancestors don't matter? that just makes Aragorn a normal guy with a special sword. and if they do matter, voldemort has powerful ancestors too, but he also has magic, which Aragorn didn't. that makes Aragorn weaker than voldemort.

They weren't normal swords, they were ancient swords crafted by the Numenorean descended race, the Westernesse, who were a step below their Numenorean ancestors but still one or two steps above normal humans. Their swords were all inherently the equivalent of magical artifacts. Once again, I point to the standard fantasy rule of things crafted in the past being inherently more powerful than things crafted in the present.

while that may be true most of the time, it isn't always. and if it is, voldemort has the sword of Godric Gryffindor, which would be as powerful as narsil by that logic.

D&D is a decades old system designed entirely to qualify and quantify fantasy mechanics. I used it to qualify the relative power levels between the two sides. Those points were entirely valid and relevant.

you're still assuming which levels each would hold, and having a higher "magic level" doesn't necessarily mean something is more powerful. a mortal would have no chance of standing against voldemort unless they had a gun/bomb or some other extremely destructive weapon and managed to get a surprise attack(not easy.) sauron was defeated by mortals.
at close range.
with swords.
voldemort could have killed isildur in one second without even barely thinking about it. sauron was fighting as hard as he could(or was the worst military strategist ever) and still lost.

No, it is more like comparing a Balrog vs a hobbit and the hobbit would always lose, because one is an unmortal creature that can only be destroyed by a creature of equal or greater power, such as the deity Gandalf (remember, Gandalf isn't a wizard, Wizard is a title, he is a Maia just like Sauron) and the other is a mortal creature with no hope of winning. I haven't given an insta-win based on titles, I've clearly laid out why the question posits an inherently unbalanced battle between one side that is entirely outclassed by the other.

except that the 'balrog' in this situation(sauron) was defeated(albeit temporarily) by a 'hobbit'(isildur) with no magical abilities whatsoever. meanwhile, the only reason voldemort lost was because of the powerful protective charm harry's mother gave him plus the fact he was accidentally fighting with harry's wand, which refused to kill it's master. last i checked, voldemort is a lot more powerful than isildur.

Let's see if putting it this way will highlight the imbalance:

Isildur and the combined armies of the ancient races barely managed to defeat Sauron and capture the Ring. Frodo and the Fellowship with the help of Gandalf and two wars including the combined modern races barely managed to destroy the Ring. However, Sauron is still not dead and will never be dead because he is a deity and only the creator deity has the power to unmake him. Short of the creator unmaking him or the other deities staging another deity war to lock him away as the did Morgoth, he will always return at some point no matter how many times the mortal world may defeat him.

Voldemort was killed and is dead. Every wiki I've check confirms this, after the last phylactery is destroyed, he became mortal again and was killed.

voldemort: no longer in the mortal realm, no power, will never return.
sauron: no longer in the mortal realm, no power. may return sometime in a few centuries or so.
not seeing much of a difference here.

Do you see the difference? One side is lead by an eternal, unkillable being with powers on the cosmic scale. The other side is led by an admittedly powerful mortal wizard who can die. Voldemort most certainly could win some battles in this hypothetical war, but he could never, ever win the war because Sauron can not be permanently killed.
maybe sauron didn't technically 'die', but he was defeated, made powerless, and with no interaction with the living world. that's basically the same thing.

Just hearing the name of Ringwraiths was enough to scare most people in Middle-earth. The reason why the Nazgul were defeated at Weathertop was because they acted too slowly + they are scared of fire, and fire did Aragorn wield.
last i checked, voldemort has access to roughly literally infinite fire that is occasionally sentient and will chase down it's prey. Aragorn had one torch.

As for Elendil and Gil-galad, one descended from Elrond's brother Elros Tar-Minyatur and the other from Fingolfin who himself was the younger son of Finwe, the First High King of the Noldor. Both were quite tall, especially Elendil. Both could use Palantiri, and in fact Gil-galad had fought Sauron twice before. Why, he had the power of one of the Three Rings of the Elves (others being with Galadriel and Elrond) and according to what I know, the Three gave their bearers magical powers, not to mention Gil-galad's lineage!
weren't those rings made by sauron himself to be controlled by the one ring? as for lineage, voldemort is the heir of slytherin.

Now you are saying Dementors aren't undead but see...
"Dementors hold no true loyalty, except to whomever can provide them with the most people to feed off."
And Sauron can easily arrange for that - surely the Dementors will betray Voldy! Also you say that mortals ended the Witch-king. Well, both ALMOST died due to the Witch-king's Black Breath. Moreover, Merry's sword was shattered instantaneously when it hit the Witch-king, which distracted him, giving Eowyn a chance to stab him. It was only because Aragorn brewed Kingsfoil in the Houses of Healing that they survived. Same with Frodo after the Weathertop incident. The wound from the Morgul blade hurt Frodo forever after that. Also Aragorn was an excellent swordsman. And the Nazgul saw Frodo after he put on the Ring, in the Wraith-world.
voldemort is giving the dementors a few thousand orcs to feed off plus anyon who gets in his way. sauron needs his orcs. as for the ringwraiths, the witch-king was killed, again, by a MORTAL woman and a MORTAL hobbit. neither had any magical powers at all, just swords. voldemort and the death eaters have a plethora of spells, potions, and magical items to help them. the nazgul seem pretty squishy to me, TBH.

Does hearing the name of dementors cause fear? Is a person attacked by dementors haunted with the memories ever after?
yes. the third harry potter book goes into that in detail. also, dementors can suck out your soul and can never be truly killed, just driven away(although if the conditions in which they breed, i.e fear and despair are made rarer, their numbers can be limited). don't think nazgul can do that.
Can 1 DE take on 1000 orcs, 10 trolls and 1000 mannish allies of Sauron at one time??? I need answers, as they are decisive.
yes. in almost all of my other posts, i mentioned how the death eaters would be essentially immune to orcs. 80% of orcs' arsenal consists of swords, spears, and other melee weapons. death eaters can fly, thereby rendering all the orcs' weaponry useless. archers? death eaters have shield charms that can block arrows and tons of other attacks. trolls? sure. set them on fire, magically bleed them to death, take control of their mind and cause them to start killing orcs, the possibilities are endless of all the ways the death eaters could defeat sauron's minions. oliphaunts? blind them, take control of their minds, and make them start attacking their own allies. bring a basilisk in and kill all orcs with a clear view in about 10 seconds. nazgul? kill their fell beasts and let them plummet to the ground. nazgul don't have ranged attacks, do they? voldemort and his army have a myriad of weapons, sauron and co. mostly use swords, which are easily defended against.

Voldemort's Death Eaters are few in number and even fewer legitimately serve him. The rest do so out of fear. There is no doubt a number of them would defect to Sauron's side.
they aren't as few as you think. the ones in the books were just the inner circle, he has a ton of others you don't see. that's why the battle of Hogwarts involved more than 30 participants from each side. plus, if any defected, they would either die instantly or be imperiused and forced to fight.
Dementors would also turn away from Voldy's control and could quite possibly turn on his own Death Eaters, as they have more positive emotions/memories than the purely negative Orcs. Post-battle, the Dementors would likely drift towards the Shire.
except that the death eaters can apparate(teleport) away easily and some can even cast patronuses, while orcs are utterly defenseless. I'd be surprised if the orcs could even fight after seeing all the dementors.

As for the few remaining Death Eaters, they would be boned simply because of the presence of the Nazgûl. Their screams render even the most courageous warrior terrified beyond comprehension. Rightfully so, as they're the invisible threat of impending death. The Witch-king in particular cannot be slain by men. That's a pretty good resistance in this engagement. The screams alone would be so distracting that the Death Eaters wouldn't be able to concentrate on the simplest of spells. Similarly, Apparition is out of the question. The Orcs would efficiently kill the lot of them - Voldemort included.
dementors are worse, and only fightable with magic, which, oh yeah, orcs can't do. they can do a lot worse than kill you, and if the witch-king is so tough, how come he was killed by a non-magical hobbit and a similarly magic-challenge woman using only swords? and if the screams are so bad, wouldn't that mean all the warriors in LOTR would have been unable to fight, too? they seemed to put up a pretty good resistance with no magical abilities.
Sauron wouldn't even need to get personally involved.

sorry for the long response, i wanted to reply to each argument in question.

 

[SauronTheDeceiver]

Hobbits are FAR more resilient to Nazgul screams and that is the reason why while the people in Minas Tirith went mad due to the Nazgul at the Siege of Gondor, Pippin was undaunted (he was cared due to Denethor's madness). only the strongest of strong wills can withstand a Nazgul scream.
About the Witch King's death, it was all luck and plot - Eowyn should have never killed him. She and Merry almost died due to the Black Breath.
You say the Nazgul are quite squishy. Well, they are infamous sorcerers, at least according Gandalf, Elrond and Aragorn, who are good sources of Third Age lore-

"The Nazgûl were sustained by the power of Sauron. The Witch-king in particular was difficult to slay, for any weapon that struck him would be destroyed. The Nazgûl's own weapons included long swords of steel and daggers. Their leader possessed a powerful black mace as well. Their arsenal of deadly armaments was not confined to physical means; they also had powerful voices, which brought terror into the hearts of mortals and a general aura of dread. They wore hauberks of silver mail and had enhanced senses of hearing and smell.

The Nine could not see during the day as mortals do; instead they see shadowy forms. During the night they see many signs and forms invisible to mortal eyes; it is at night that they are to be feared most. They can smell the blood of living things that they desire and hate. Their presence can be felt as a troubling of the heart, and they can more keenly feel the presence of others. At all times, they sense the presence of the Ring and are drawn to it.

They were surrounded by an aura of terror, which affected all living creatures; their aura (called the Black Breath) could be toxic to those hapless enough to come near them. Of course, their horrible cries put many a battle-hardened warrior to flight as well. Some of the Nazgûl appear to have been accomplished sorcerers and used magic to devastating effect. The fear the Nine inspired was one of their greatest strengths. According to Gandalf, if Sauron regained the One, they would become vastly more powerful. However, it is unclear as to how. However, as Sauron's strength grew through the books, the Nazgûl became obviously more powerful. In the Fellowship of the Ring, the Nazgûl's cries were simply unnerving to the hobbits (this may possibly be explained because it was important that the Hunt of the Ring remained in secrecy so they might have diminished their auras, and they did not have the rings of power), and they appeared to be physically weak, as Aragorn managed to hold off five of the Ringwraiths single-handedly on Weathertop. In The Return of the King however, their cries are powerful enough to send all but the most stout-hearted of Gondor's defenders into a state of helpless terror, and the Witch King in particular has become so powerful that he challenged Gandalf the White (which of the two is the more powerful is not revealed)."

You say 2500 evil servants can take on a DE at a time. Well, that is illogical - even Voldemort himself can do as much Fiendfire as he wants, Sauron seems to have infinite forces, all DEs will get tired eventually, then the orcs can take on them, as apparently Orcs get tired slowly (especially Uruks). Even if he does defeat Sauron, he won't destroy the Ring as Voldy will be attracted to it.

Dementors are basically Nazgul with reduced abilities - in fact Nazgul can remove their cloaks and become invisible - then only "the brightest of lights" can make a faint shadow appear.

 

[neoselket]

Hobbits are FAR more resilient to Nazgul screams and that is the reason why while the people in Minas Tirith went mad due to the Nazgul at the Siege of Gondor, Pippin was undaunted (he was cared due to Denethor's madness). only the strongest of strong wills can withstand a Nazgul scream.
About the Witch King's death, it was all luck and plot - Eowyn should have never killed him. She and Merry almost died due to the Black Breath.
You say the Nazgul are quite squishy. Well, they are infamous sorcerers, at least according Gandalf, Elrond and Aragorn, who are good sources of Third Age lore-
again, voldemort has a very strong will, and many spells and potions which would aid him.
"The Nazgûl were sustained by the power of Sauron. The Witch-king in particular was difficult to slay, for any weapon that struck him would be destroyed. The Nazgûl's own weapons included long swords of steel and daggers. Their leader possessed a powerful black mace as well. Their arsenal of deadly armaments was not confined to physical means; they also had powerful voices, which brought terror into the hearts of mortals and a general aura of dread. They wore hauberks of silver mail and had enhanced senses of hearing and smell.

The Nine could not see during the day as mortals do; instead they see shadowy forms. During the night they see many signs and forms invisible to mortal eyes; it is at night that they are to be feared most. They can smell the blood of living things that they desire and hate. Their presence can be felt as a troubling of the heart, and they can more keenly feel the presence of others. At all times, they sense the presence of the Ring and are drawn to it.

They were surrounded by an aura of terror, which affected all living creatures; their aura (called the Black Breath) could be toxic to those hapless enough to come near them. Of course, their horrible cries put many a battle-hardened warrior to flight as well. Some of the Nazgûl appear to have been accomplished sorcerers and used magic to devastating effect. The fear the Nine inspired was one of their greatest strengths. According to Gandalf, if Sauron regained the One, they would become vastly more powerful. However, it is unclear as to how. However, as Sauron's strength grew through the books, the Nazgûl became obviously more powerful. In the Fellowship of the Ring, the Nazgûl's cries were simply unnerving to the hobbits (this may possibly be explained because it was important that the Hunt of the Ring remained in secrecy so they might have diminished their auras, and they did not have the rings of power), and they appeared to be physically weak, as Aragorn managed to hold off five of the Ringwraiths single-handedly on Weathertop. In The Return of the King however, their cries are powerful enough to send all but the most stout-hearted of Gondor's defenders into a state of helpless terror, and the Witch King in particular has become so powerful that he challenged Gandalf the White (which of the two is the more powerful is not revealed)."

You say 2500 evil servants can take on a DE at a time. Well, that is illogical - even Voldemort himself can do as much Fiendfire as he wants, Sauron seems to have infinite forces, all DEs will get tired eventually, then the orcs can take on them, as apparently Orcs get tired slowly (especially Uruks). Even if he does defeat Sauron, he won't destroy the Ring as Voldy will be attracted to it.
again, voldemort and the death eaters can fly and use shield charms, making them invulnerable to orcs, and when they tire they can simply apparate away.
Dementors are basically Nazgul with reduced abilities - in fact Nazgul can remove their cloaks and become invisible - then only "the brightest of lights" can make a faint shadow appear.

dementors however are far more numerous, and their effect is cumulative. oh, and dementors are actually invisible to non-magical people/entities.

 

[SauronTheDeceiver]

About Sauron -

"Sauron was among the mightiest of the Maiar. Originally of Aulë's people, he acquired great "scientific" knowledge of the world's substances and how to use them. He would retain this knowledge throughout his tenure as the Dark Lord in Middle-earth, using it to forge the One Ring and construct his fortress of Barad-dûr. Sauron also seemed primarily linked to the use of fire, and as Morgoth's chief lieutenant, his ability to tap into the fires in the earth was of great value.
Among Sauron's chief powers were deception and disguise: In the First Age Sauron took on many forms. His battle against Luthien and Huan in The Silmarillion has him taking on no less than four separate shapes: his "normal" shape, presumed to be that of some kind of terrible dark sorcerer, a great wolf, a serpent, and finally a vampire "dripping blood from his throat upon the trees" ("Of Beren and Lúthien,"The Silmarillion). At the end of the First Age, Sauron took on a fair form to appeal to the Captain of the Hosts of the Valar and ask for pardon. In the Second Age, Sauron took up that fair form again and used it under the alias "Annatar" to deceive the Elves into creating the Rings of Power. The level of deception required to fool the Elves of Eregion must have gone beyond simply taking on a fair form. Sauron was literally instructing the Elves to make artifacts that while capable of great good, were ultimately purposed for his own domination and were imbued with power to arrest the natural order of the world. The Elves were unaware of who they were dealing with until the eleventh hour, and only narrowly escaped his trap. Centuries later, Sauron was able to deceive the Númenóreans and steer them directly to their own destruction under promises of eternal life. Such destruction is a testament to Sauron's manipulative nature and ability to twist the perceptions of his enemies.
The extent, nature, and specifics of Sauron's power are largely left to the imagination. Like his master Morgoth, he was capable of altering the physical substance of the world around him by mere effort of will."

Sauron's clearly more powerful than Voldemort.

Also the required conditions for dementors to breed are available in Mordor, and both the Nazgul and Sauron himself are "images of malice and evil made visible" (and BTW they are known to cast magic MUCH more powerful than a normal DE, so they'll see the dementors, BTW, and either way they'll see the dementors in the spiritual realm) so the dementors will naturally betray the DEs. Also dementors won't understand Orc mentality as orcs have a sub-human mind (like with Sirius when turned into an Animagus when he escaped from Azkaban) so they won't feed on them, and I personally doubt orcs have a soul, since the first orcs were "Elves captured by Morgoth's agents and tortured to twist the soul beyond recognition" and Sauron has other methods to create orcs (how Saruman created them from trees).

I'm thinking of methods in which Sauron could subdue Voldemort (and possibly the entire Ministry) without war.

NOTE - I came across a few posts which said Imperius curse will work on orcs. Well, apparently it won't since they only do what their masters want....so an Imperius will result in a mind battle between Sauron and the Imperius Curse user.

 

[neoselket]

About Sauron -

"Sauron was among the mightiest of the Maiar. Originally of Aulë's people, he acquired great "scientific" knowledge of the world's substances and how to use them. He would retain this knowledge throughout his tenure as the Dark Lord in Middle-earth, using it to forge the One Ring and construct his fortress of Barad-dûr. Sauron also seemed primarily linked to the use of fire, and as Morgoth's chief lieutenant, his ability to tap into the fires in the earth was of great value.
Among Sauron's chief powers were deception and disguise: In the First Age Sauron took on many forms. His battle against Luthien and Huan in The Silmarillion has him taking on no less than four separate shapes: his "normal" shape, presumed to be that of some kind of terrible dark sorcerer, a great wolf, a serpent, and finally a vampire "dripping blood from his throat upon the trees" ("Of Beren and Lúthien,"The Silmarillion). At the end of the First Age, Sauron took on a fair form to appeal to the Captain of the Hosts of the Valar and ask for pardon. In the Second Age, Sauron took up that fair form again and used it under the alias "Annatar" to deceive the Elves into creating the Rings of Power. The level of deception required to fool the Elves of Eregion must have gone beyond simply taking on a fair form. Sauron was literally instructing the Elves to make artifacts that while capable of great good, were ultimately purposed for his own domination and were imbued with power to arrest the natural order of the world. The Elves were unaware of who they were dealing with until the eleventh hour, and only narrowly escaped his trap. Centuries later, Sauron was able to deceive the Númenóreans and steer them directly to their own destruction under promises of eternal life. Such destruction is a testament to Sauron's manipulative nature and ability to twist the perceptions of his enemies.
The extent, nature, and specifics of Sauron's power are largely left to the imagination. Like his master Morgoth, he was capable of altering the physical substance of the world around him by mere effort of will."

Sauron's clearly more powerful than Voldemort.

Also the required conditions for dementors to breed are available in Mordor, and both the Nazgul and Sauron himself are "images of malice and evil made visible" (and BTW they are known to cast magic MUCH more powerful than a normal DE, so they'll see the dementors, BTW, and either way they'll see the dementors in the spiritual realm) so the dementors will naturally betray the DEs. Also dementors won't understand Orc mentality as orcs have a sub-human mind (like with Sirius when turned into an Animagus when he escaped from Azkaban) so they won't feed on them, and I personally doubt orcs have a soul, since the first orcs were "Elves captured by Morgoth's agents and tortured to twist the soul beyond recognition" and Sauron has other methods to create orcs (how Saruman created them from trees).

I'm thinking of methods in which Sauron could subdue Voldemort (and possibly the entire Ministry) without war.

NOTE - I came across a few posts which said Imperius curse will work on orcs. Well, apparently it won't since they only do what their masters want....so an Imperius will result in a mind battle between Sauron and the Imperius Curse user.

if sauron is so powerful, how was he defeated by three people with no magical powers?

 

[Charmander27]

if sauron is so powerful, how was he defeated by three people with no magical powers?

Who are you implying with this?

Also, he was defeated over the course of multiple generations and the sacrifices and deaths of countless armies and nations, and possibly not even truly defeated at that.

"Only three," is a huge understatement.

 

[TheQuietBisharp]

Fate. Fate explains the defeat of both Voldy and Sauron, although "defeat" is what Sauron suffered. You can't really factor the destined champions that defeat either of these figures into this.

 

[neoselket]

Who are you implying with this?

Also, he was defeated over the course of multiple generations and the sacrifices and deaths of countless armies and nations, and possibly not even truly defeated at that.

"Only three," is a huge understatement.

i was referring to elendil, gil-galad, and isildur. from what i heard, they were the three that actually fought hand to hand with sauron.

 

[SauronTheDeceiver]

This is because Gil-galad and Elendil were better swordsmen than Sauron, and killing such pure people drained his power. That is why Isildur could cut the Ring from Sauron's hand.

Well, Sauron could just turn into Annatar, deceive the whole MINISTRY OF MAGIC through his superpowers, then do what he did with the Elves of Eregion

 

[SauronTheDeceiver]

Let us see - Most probably Sauron will prefer deception to war (at first). He'll take on the form of Annatar, and enter the Ministry (his spies have observed the entrances). The light coming from his eyes scares everyone, but some brave enough will ask him who he is. Then will declare himself as a Lord of Gifts, then make the wand-makers make special wands (like the Rings of Power), but then be unhappy and instead make Rings from the wizards.

Once he returns to Mordor, he will start using the One Ring to control the wizard rings and then declare war on the Ministry. (How the war goes I'll explain later)


EDIT: Did the HP-supporting team surrender???

 

[The Mechanic]

Sorry but this isn't even a contest. You might as well say Dragon vs Dinosaur.


Sauron is without a doubt the winner.

 

[SauronTheDeceiver]

Sorry but this isn't even a contest. You might as well say Dragon vs Dinosaur.


Sauron is without a doubt the winner.

True. However, some think otherwise.

 

[Argen Hammerstone]

Obviously Sauron. I don't know too much of Harry Potter, but I know this much: When Voldemort was "dead", Sauron, who is the Necromancer anyway, rose him from the dead just to cut off his nose in a very painful way. Story over. Of course, you could say the same about why Sauron wears a mask...but still. Anyone can survive a cut-off nose. Wait...that makes me think of how similar the one ring is to the horcruxes...but hey! My favorite fiction (LOTR) is still safe and sound, Tolkien wrote it first! Sorry for rambling.

 

[SauronTheDeceiver]

After a lot of research, I am giving an expanded, point-wise answer that shall try to cover all bases. My answer is still Sauron, though.

1. "Avada Kedavra will win the war for Voldemort": Of course not. Sauron's armies easily numbered in the millions - Voldemort's only in the thousands. Even if the DEs could release 1 AK every second, only those many orcs/troops would be gotten rid of. The same number of arrows would be fired at the DEs (along with quite a few huge rocks from those nasty catapults), and they would have to do something (Bombarda, Protego, Transfiguration, etc.) to deal with that, leaving them tired (Transfiguration especially), even if only slightly. Gradually, they would be worn out, and they would be easily overwhelmed - by the massive number of orcs (+ its highly unlikely DEs are good in close-quarter/melee fighting). Moreover, the time used for the other spells cannot be used to kill the troops; in fact, Sauron's factories are continuously creating new orcs. It is illogical for an army numbering in the thousands to defeat THIS army of Sauron's, which never stops growing.

2. "They would use Imperius curse on orcs" : Well, Sauron literally mind-controls his troops - when Frodo claimed the One Ring in the heart of Mount Doom, this is what happened -

From all his policies and webs of fear and treachery, from all his stratagems and wars his mind shook free; and throughout his realm a tremor ran, his slaves quailed, and his armies halted, and his captains suddenly steerless, BEREFT OF WILL, wavered and despaired. For they were forgotten. The whole mind and purpose of the Power that wielded them was now bent with overwhelming force upon the Mountain. At his summons, wheeling with a rending cry, in a last desperate race there flew, faster than the winds, the Nazgûl, the Ring-wraiths, and with a storm of wings they hurtled southwards to Mount Doom.
(The Return of the King, Book 6, Chapter 3 : "Mount Doom")
​

So what happens when Imperio curse is used? A MIND BATTLE. What of that? Pippin will tell you, from his experience....

Closer and closer he bent, and then became rigid; his lips moved soundlessly for a while. Then with a strangled cry he fell back and lay still.

The cry was piercing. The guards leapt down from the banks. All the camp was soon astir.

‘So this is the thief!’, said Gandalf. Hastily he cast his cloak over the globe where it lay. ‘But you, Pippin! This is a grievous turn to things!’ He knelt by Pippin’s body: the hobbit was lying on his back, rigid, with unseeing eyes staring up at the sky. ‘The devilry! What mischief has he done – to himself, and to all of us?’ The wizard’s face was drawn and haggard.

He took Pippin’s hand and bent over his face, listening for his breath; then he laid his hands on his brow. The hobbit shuddered. His eyes closed. He cried out; and sat up, staring in bewilderment at all the faces round him, pale in the moonlight.

‘It is not for you, Saruman!’ he cried in a shrill and toneless voice, shrinking away from Gandalf. ‘I will send for it at once. Do you understand? Say just that!’ Then he struggled to get up and escape, but Gandalf held him gently and firmly.

‘Peregrin Took!’ he said. ‘Come back!’

The hobbit relaxed and fell back, clinging to the wizard’s hand.

‘Gandalf!’ he cried. ‘Gandalf! Forgive me!’

‘Forgive you?’, said the wizard. ‘Tell me first what you have done!’

‘I, I took the ball and looked at it,’stammered Pippin; ‘and I saw things that frightened me. And I wanted to go away, but I couldn’t. And then he came and questioned me; and he looked at me, and, and, that is all I remember.’

‘That won’t do,’ said Gandalf sternly. ‘What did you see, and what did you say?’

Pippin shut his eyes and shivered, but said nothing. They all stared at him in silence, except Merry who turned away. But Gandalf’s face was still hard. ‘Speak!’ he said.

In a low hesitating voice Pippin began again, and slowly his words grew clearer and stronger. ‘I saw a dark sky, and tall battlements,’ he said. ‘And tiny stars. It seemed very far away and long ago, yet hard and clear. Then the stars went in and out – they were cut off by things with wings. Very big, I think, really; but in the glass they looked like bats wheeling round the tower. I thought there were nine of them. One began to fly straight towards me, getting bigger and bigger. It had a horrible – no, no! I can’t say.

‘I tried to get away, because I thought it would fly out; but when it had covered all the globe, it disappeared. Then he came. He did not speak so that I could hear words. He just looked, and I understood.

‘ ‘‘So you have come back? Why have you neglected to report for so long?’’

‘I did not answer. He said: ‘‘Who are you?’’ I still did not answer, but it hurt me horribly; and he pressed me, so I said: ‘‘A hobbit.’’

‘Then suddenly he seemed to see me, and he laughed at me. It was cruel. It was like being stabbed with knives. I struggled. But he said: ‘‘Wait a moment! We shall meet again soon. Tell Saruman that this dainty is not for him. I will send for it at once. Do you understand? Say just that!’’

‘Then he gloated over me. I felt I was falling to pieces. No, no! I can’t say any more. I don’t remember anything else.’

(The Two Towers, Book IV, Chapter 11: 'The Palantir')
​

Don't you see how traumatic an experience it is to simply converse a little with Sauron? Pippin got knocked out cold, and suffered from memory loss - he is traumatized to the extent that he cannot even name Sauron! Even the appearance of the wraiths on wings was too frightening for him to remember. Agreed, Pippin may not have the best of wills to combat Sauron, but for that cause, the channel of communication (the Palantir of Orthanc) was of Elvish make, made in Valinor in the First Age (or Years of the Trees), over which Sauron commanded no authority; he was a freaking 800 miles away! Yet, just see the trauma which Pippin suffered from.

Now, coming to the encounter between Sauron and Aragorn -

(...) But Merry had eyes only for Aragorn, so startling was the change that he saw in him, as if in one night many years had fallen on his head. Grim was his face, grey-hued and weary.

(The Return of the King, Book V, Chapter 2: The Passing of the Grey Company)
​

This was the effect on Aragorn after his (brief) struggle with Sauron - he did best Sauron, but because he could rightfully command the Palantir and wrest its control from Sauron, and because Sauron feared the Heir of Isildur (i.e. Aragorn), not because Aragorn's will was stronger.
(Nonetheless, Aragorn had the greatest will among all the men of his time). Yet, this is the effect.

Any mind battle due to the usage of an Imperio curse on an orc (Sauron's property) would result in a KO (and possible loss of mind control) for the Death Eater. Voldemort may survive for some time, but in the end, Sauron's will would prevail.

(To be continued - divided into parts due to high length.....)

 

[Barty]

Sorry but this isn't even a contest. You might as well say Dragon vs Dinosaur.


Sauron is without a doubt the winner.

I've been seeing similar VS-threads on facebook and my opinion is the same as yours. You can't compare a godlike creature with just an evil mage.

 

[SauronTheDeceiver]

PART 2 -

3. "3 people killed Sauron. Earlier, a dog defeated him." - I continue to repeat that those were the greatest heroes of the Second Age and bore great weapons that seemed to be associated with some magic that allowed Isildur to cut through Sauron's body and get the One Ring. Elendil was cast away by Sauron, and died when he fell on a rock, breaking the Narsil under him. Gil-galad was destroyed (not merely killed) by the touch of Sauron's hand - he was burnt to death. Moreover, this is Sauron post the Fall of Numenor, in a significantly weaker form. Before that, Sauron was exceptionally powerful - capable of shape shifting, very powerful sorcery, master of phantoms, etc. Even in the War of the Last Alliance, only 5 people could stand Sauron's presence, and only 2 brave enough to actually duel with him.

Also, the dog which defeated him (Huan) was the size of a big house; also, it had been prophesied that the greatest wolf ever would destroy him. Since it referred to Carcharoth, not Sauron, the latter was defeated. (In fact, just before that fight, Luthien, the one who put all of Morgoth's court, including the big bad guy, to sleep by the power of song, had been knocked out cold by the sheer terror of Sauron's approach.)

TBC.....

 

[ThatRandomBuilderGuy]

Sauron.

Voldemort is a wizard that can do literally what any other wizard can do, he just has a fancy snake, a few followers and horcruxes. Literally anyone could have done that. Plus he put 6 books just to weaken hog warts. Without the weakened state of hogwarts, he would have lost.

Sauron meanwhile has a large army and is extremely powerful, and has the rings.