Casual In an all-out war, would Voldemort or Sauron win?

Who would win?

  • Sauron

  • Voldemort

  • Stalemate.

Results are only viewable after voting.
Charmander27 said:
That was my point.
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but that was only if they did, which they don't.
Darkwraith332 said:
Let's not forget the nigh impenetrable fortress wasteland Sauron has...........
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this fight would(in my examples) take place in an area away from the horcruxes and mount doom, so no fortress. even with it, apparition(teleporting) would easily get a death eater in there, and they could use polyjuice potion to turn into an orc and cast spells covertly from there, confusing the orcs and being capable of causing devastating damage.
Charmander27 said:
A machine gun and an unlimited supply of bullets would beat both of them, however.
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the protego spell would block that.
 
Neither of them possesses the power to react fast enough to even do anything should they have been confronted with a machine gun, especially HP characters, who have to say or think full words and do swishy motions.
 
I'm not familiar with Sauron but I've known for a while Voldemort ain't that bad :red:... so stalemate.
 
Why is this labeled as casual? Things like this usually never end up as Casual. But anyways, Sauron. I'm not familiar with Voldemort, but I know that if Sauron had the one ring, it would be over quick.
 
Demi-God VS Guy with a Wand who can Revive Himself (not infinitely)

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

HRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRMMMM

I don't think the second entity being noseless adds to being specially OP. The characters of the Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit fear Sauron even when he's just a float eyeball.
 
As stated before he is simply not just a floating eyeball he does have his phial form of a person still he just uses the eye to find things and watch
 
Well, I have studied the posts from Page 1, and I must daresay, I find many of Neoskelet's and Leinfors's explanations pretty absurd. Before I cast my vote, I would like to discuss a point used by Neoskelet about Sauron's defeat - His fight with Isildur.
  • Isildur had already once faced the wrath of Sauron while in Numenor - When Sauron ordered the cutting of the White Tree of Numenor, Isildur daringly rescued one of its seed (albeit getting himself severly injured due to the wrath of Sauon, but he did recover when the seedling grew).
  • Isildur himself was no ordinary man - he descended from Elros Tar-Minyatur, Elrond's brother, who had descended form Finwe, King of the Noldorin Elves, Beren, and Melian the Maia (who was the Queen of Doriath), which meant a lot of royal blood was present in Isildur.
  • The Narsil was of Numenorian make, imbued with magic, making it possibly the only weapon capable of destroying Sauron himself.
  • The deaths of Gil-galad, Elendil, and Anarion made Isildur full of anger and sorrow, which overcame his fear of Sauron (for the record, everyone else, including Elrond, was fearful when Sauron came forth from Barad-dur), which made it possible for him to destroy Sauron. By that point, Sauron was weakened due to his battles against Gil-galad and Elendil. The swing of the shards of the Narsil onto Sauron's Ring-finger was very lucky.
  • By the way, Sauron clearly abdicated his body (according to Fellowship of the Ring prologue in the book) when Isildur cut the Ring from him.
Now, for battle time....
Part 1 - Powers of the Dark Lords.
First of all, Voldemort has 6 horcruxes (Not factoring Harry Potter here, since Voldemort is not fighting him), large amounts of knowledge in dark magic, an extremely powerful wand, an army of skilled wizards of the upper classes in dark magic (death eaters), dementors, trolls, inferi, wolves, all sorts of dark creatures, ability to teleport for a short distance (apparently long-distance teleportation is risky), mind control, and an army of 5000.

Sauron's powers are not explicitly stated, but we know he can control weather (Dawnless Day, Battle of the Pelennor Fields), change the landscape of a place by just his will (how he created the Mountains of Mordor), ability to control the fires in the depths of the Earth and the eruptions of Mount Doom, many allies (Black Numenorians, Corsairs of Umbar, Haradrim, Mumakil, Variags of Khand, Easterlings, various types of goblins and orcs, Half-trolls, trolls, Olog-hai, fellbeasts), an army that numbers in millions, many other unknown methods of sorcery, ability to teleport himself over long distances, 9 other undead sorcerers to his help, and an ability to breed many kinds of dark creatures, the extremely powerful One Ring, and a mace that can destroy battalions of enemies, not to mention he is a Maia (demigod) fallen from grace, and an ability to cause many kinds of deception. Not to mention anyone who approaches him is usually burnt by Sauron's heat.

EDGE - SAURON

Part 2 - Training of the Dark Lords
Sauron was trained under Aule, who had created Dwarves in Middle-earth, and Morgoth, the most powerful being in all of Arda, save for Eru himself. Thus, Sauron had the ability to make deadly creations such as the Rings of Power.

Voldemort was trained at Hogwarts, and also had an abnormal ability to cojure magic form his beginnings. Even so, his training is nothing compared to Sauron's training.
EDGE - SAURON

Part 3 - Experience of the Dark Lords
Sauron takes this by a landslide. He had been around for thousands of years, Voldemort was 71 when he was destroyed. EDGE - SAURON
We shall discuss the armies in the Battle section

The Battle
No of orcs - 1,000,000
No. of men - 500,000
No. of trolls - 25,000
No. of creatures - 75,000 + 9 Nazgul and their fellbeasts
SAURON'S TOTAL - 1,600,000 + Nazgul

No. of DEs - 1,000
No. of dementors - 500
No. of inferi - 500
No. of other creatures - 1,000
VOLDY'S TOTAL - 3000
The armies of Sauron and Voldemort assemble on the Dagorlad, in front of the Black Gate. The orcs then charge upon the Death Eaters who fire a large number of KCs, which kills some 1000 orcs before they close into melee. Being bad at swordsmanship, the Death Eaters start flying, which causes orcs trouble. The archers come into play and shoot down some DEs. Then the remaining DEs launch more KCs and fly and apparate. However, Sauron has spies everywhere, and the DE hideout is discovered and ambushed. Then Voldy launches dementors, inferi and trolls upon the orcs, but Sauron's Olog-hai destroy the DE trolls. The DE army, reduced to 2000, flees, while Sauron still has 1.5 million troops. Dementors and inferi block the advance, but Sauron never sent all his army there! Instead he sends 500,000 troops from Barad-dur along with the Nine. He then changes the weather into stormy weather, making it difficult for Voldy's army to apparate in the torrential rainfall. Suddenly the orcs, men and Nazgul arrive. The ground troops kill many before being repulsed, while the DEs cannot flee due to the Nazgul above. A lot of KCs are shot, but the DEs are utterly routed. The orcs then join the others being attackedby the dementors and inferi. A large fire is created and set upon the inferi, causing them to flee, while seeing that they would fare better under Sauron, the Dementors join the Nazgul in the retreat to Mordor.

Meanwhile, Voldy is angry and appears at the Black Gate to challenge Sauron. However, the Witch-king comes and stabs Voldy with a morgul blade. Voldy never knew he was coming, for the Witch-king had removed his cloak ad became invisible. Voldy's mind is broken and he reveals the location of the horcruxes. They are duly collected and destroyed by morgul blades, and Voldy becomes a lesser wraith, servant to Sauron.

I know this thread has been inactive for a year, so sorry for bumping it.
 
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SauronTheDeceiver said:
Well, I have studied the posts from Page 1, and I must daresay, I find many of Neoskelet's and Leinfors's explanations pretty absurd. Before I cast my vote, I would like to discuss a point used by Neoskelet about Sauron's defeat - His fight with Isildur.
  • Isildur had already once faced the wrath of Sauron while in Numenor - When Sauron ordered the cutting of the White Tree of Numenor, Isildur daringly rescued one of its seed (albeit getting himself severly injured due to the wrath of Sauon, but he did recover when the seedling grew).
  • Isildur himself was no ordinary man - he descended from Elros Tar-Minyatur, Elrond's brother, who had descended form Finwe, King of the Noldorin Elves, Beren, and Melian the Maia (who was the Queen of Doriath), which meant a lot of royal blood was present in Isildur.
  • The Narsil was of Numenorian make, imbued with magic, making it possibly the only weapon capable of destroying Sauron himself.
  • The deaths of Gil-galad, Elendil, and Anarion made Isildur full of anger and sorrow, which overcame his fear of Sauron (for the record, everyone else, including Elrond, was fearful when Sauron came forth from Barad-dur), which made it possible for him to destroy Sauron. By that point, Sauron was weakened due to his battles against Gil-galad and Elendil. The swing of the shards of the Narsil onto Sauron's Ring-finger was very lucky.
  • By the way, Sauron clearly abdicated his body (according to Fellowship of the Ring prologue in the book) when Isildur cut the Ring from him.
Now, for battle time....
Part 1 - Powers of the Dark Lords.
First of all, Voldemort has 6 horcruxes (Not factoring Harry Potter here, since Voldemort is not fighting him), large amounts of knowledge in dark magic, an extremely powerful wand, an army of skilled wizards of the upper classes in dark magic (death eaters), dementors, trolls, inferi, wolves, all sorts of dark creatures, ability to teleport for a short distance (apparently long-distance teleportation is risky), mind control, and an army of 5000.

Sauron's powers are not explicitly stated, but we know he can control weather (Dawnless Day, Battle of the Pelennor Fields), change the landscape of a place by just his will (how he created the Mountains of Mordor), ability to control the fires in the depths of the Earth and the eruptions of Mount Doom, many allies (Black Numenorians, Corsairs of Umbar, Haradrim, Mumakil, Variags of Khand, Easterlings, various types of goblins and orcs, Half-trolls, trolls, Olog-hai, fellbeasts), an army that numbers in millions, many other unknown methods of sorcery, ability to teleport himself over long distances, 9 other undead sorcerers to his help, and an ability to breed many kinds of dark creatures, the extremely powerful One Ring, and a mace that can destroy battalions of enemies, not to mention he is a Maia (demigod) fallen from grace, and an ability to cause many kinds of deception. Not to mention anyone who approaches him is usually burnt by Sauron's heat.

EDGE - SAURON

Part 2 - Training of the Dark Lords
Sauron was trained under Aule, who had created Dwarves in Middle-earth, and Morgoth, the most powerful being in all of Arda, save for Eru himself. Thus, Sauron had the ability to make deadly creations such as the Rings of Power.

Voldemort was trained at Hogwarts, and also had an abnormal ability to cojure magic form his beginnings. Even so, his training is nothing compared to Sauron's training.
EDGE - SAURON

Part 3 - Experience of the Dark Lords
Sauron takes this by a landslide. He had been around for thousands of years, Voldemort was 71 when he was destroyed. EDGE - SAURON
We shall discuss the armies in the Battle section

The Battle
No of orcs - 1,000,000
No. of men - 500,000
No. of trolls - 25,000
No. of creatures - 75,000 + 9 Nazgul and their fellbeasts
SAURON'S TOTAL - 1,600,000 + Nazgul

No. of DEs - 1,000
No. of dementors - 500
No. of inferi - 500
No. of other creatures - 1,000
VOLDY'S TOTAL - 3000
The armies of Sauron and Voldemort assemble on the Dagorlad, in front of the Black Gate. The orcs then charge upon the Death Eaters who fire a large number of KCs, which kills some 1000 orcs before they close into melee. Being bad at swordsmanship, the Death Eaters start flying, which causes orcs trouble. The archers come into play and shoot down some DEs. Then the remaining DEs launch more KCs and fly and apparate. However, Sauron has spies everywhere, and the DE hideout is discovered and ambushed. Then Voldy launches dementors, inferi and trolls upon the orcs, but Sauron's Olog-hai destroy the DE trolls. The DE army, reduced to 2000, flees, while Sauron still has 1.5 million troops. Dementors and inferi block the advance, but Sauron never sent all his army there! Instead he sends 500,000 troops from Barad-dur along with the Nine. He then changes the weather into stormy weather, making it difficult for Voldy's army to apparate in the torrential rainfall. Suddenly the orcs, men and Nazgul arrive. The ground troops kill many before being repulsed, while the DEs cannot flee due to the Nazgul above. A lot of KCs are shot, but the DEs are utterly routed. The orcs then join the others being attackedby the dementors and inferi. A large fire is created and set upon the inferi, causing them to flee, while seeing that they would fare better under Sauron, the Dementors join the Nazgul in the retreat to Mordor.

Meanwhile, Voldy is angry and appears at the Black Gate to challenge Sauron. However, the Witch-king comes and stabs Voldy with a morgul blade. Voldy never knew he was coming, for the Witch-king had removed his cloak ad became invisible. Voldy's mind is broken and he reveals the location of the horcruxes. They are duly collected and destroyed by morgul blades, and Voldy becomes a lesser wraith, servant to Sauron.

I know this thread has been inactive for a year, so sorry for bumping it.
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most of this seems pretty well thought out, but there are a few things i take issue with:

first off, I'm not sure why rain would make it difficult to apparate, as weather is never mentioned as having an impact on magic in the HP books.
death eaters have more to fight with than killing curses, there's fiendfyre(as you mentioned), explosive spells, the imperius curse(which would cause orcs to start fighting each other), and other things, so the death eaters would be able to take out a pretty high amount of orcs.

death eaters have the protego spell, which would block arrows, preventing the death eaters from being shot.
voldemort would be able to use the protego spell as well, which would protect him from the nazgul blades.
voldemort also had more than just death eaters, the death eaters were just his most loyal supporters. while the number of death eaters is fairly low, there's plenty of other wizards that he had on his side.

sauron burning anyone to get near him wouldn't be a problem for voldemort, as there are spells and potions to provide immunity to fire.
voldemort would likely use polyjuice potion to disguise himself as one of saurons minions(probably an orc) which would prevent sauron from even knowing he was there.
he would also likely use the imperius curse to get the orcs to fight each other, which would be especially easy since orcs are notoriously weak-minded and prone to fighting among themselves even without outside interference.

voldemort wouldn't be stupid enough to attack sauron with all of his might without scouting out the situation a bit. the only reason he besieged Hogwarts was because harry forced his hand by attacking his horcruxes. it's likely he would have even more power than the books show, as he would have more time to build up his armies. again, the imperius curse would be extremely useful, as he could turn sauron's armies against each other, which would result in massive casualties.

something that gets brought up a lot is the fact that sauron's a maia. however, a title alone doesn't necessarily indicate power. for example, in terraria, if you compared a normal mortal player character to the moon lord, a powerful god-like entity that has probably lived for thousands of years, you wouldn't expect the terrarian to stand much of a chance. there would need to be specific mentions of abilities that would tip the odds one way or the other. strategy plays a huge part as well.
 
My dear friend, you underestimate Sauron's army and overestimate Voldy's power. First, the searing heat from Sauron is ancient and due to his malice (Isildur said it kept the Ring's inscription visible, and we know it takes a flame to do that). Second, Sauron knew better than Polyjuice potion, and anyway, Voldy would not take the heat produced by Sauron. Also tell me how would he get past the Nazgul and Mordor's desert. Third, orcs know only to destroy their enemy, and from what I know, it is not possible for 1000 people to control 1 million orcs - even the human mind has limitations, and controlling even itself is not an easy task for it - how is the mind controlling 100 people at a time? Also, Cirith Ungol was due to a personal feud between the two orc captains, and in a war, orcs RARELY do that. Moreover they only follow what their master tells them to do. Fourth, Sauron is one of the most powerful Maia (did you read Unfinished Tales?), probably only behind Eonwe. Fifth, Sauron and the Nine are extremely powerful sorcerers, and they would SURELY know better magic than the normal death eater, and therefore the arrival of the Nine in the battle would make the Protego charm useless, as the Nazgul are undead, and should be able to stop anyone from conjuring magic in their presence (they are known to cause a lot of dread upon even hearing about them), and destroy magic. Unfortunately, Tolkein refused to give a detailed list of the abilities of the Nazgul and Sauron. Sixth, while not mentioned, apparition would be easily hampered by weather if stromy conditions occur over a large area, and anyway, the Nine's dread makes it unable for anyone to do anything other than fleeing to a safe spot - magic is impossible if the Nine appear anyway as they are sorcerers who can disable the DEs from apparating long distances or even apparate by some dark magic. Again, few abilities of the Nazgul are known. Also, your argument that Voldy's protego would stop the Nazgul is useless if the Nazgul can break the charms cast by the DEs, as it is very likely that the Witch-king has more power than Voldemort (cannot be confirmed due to lack of information on Witch-king, again).
Lastly, every orc Sauron loses, it is not a problem for him - he breed orcs in Barad-dur continuously. Not same for Voldy as every life lost is a setback to him. Also, on a better look on the potion, Mordor is pretty enchanted, making it difficult for anyone to use magic there (save for Sauron and the Nine) and one does not simply walk in to Mordor, or reach Barad-dur form the Back Gate in 1 hour.....Although I shall do a bit more research to back up what I said.
[doublepost=1464175603,1464175459][/doublepost]Yes, Jerion, Maiar are clearly stated to be on the level of Demigods in the Silmarillion (more precisely its second part the Valaquenta) and are known to be extremely powerful sorcerers, and Sauron is explicitly stated to be one of the most powerful Maiar
 
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