In-depth Hardmode weapon tier list

[mathbrush]

I completely agree with your re-evaluation of Phantom Phoenix. I did an Expert Ranger run right after 1.4.0.1 and I ended up using the Phoenix even against the Pillars (although I was farming pillars before Fishron).

You said that the Christmas Tree Sword was better than the North Pole. I just got a new Christmas Tree Sword but I'm having trouble on figuring out how to use it effectively. I tried to use it to leave a trail behind me for flying bosses, but that didn't work too well, and I can't figure out a good angle for crowds. Do you have any suggestions?

Edit: Also, I didn't realize North Pole wasn't autoswing since I was using a Mechanical Glove

 

[SkillfulHacks]

I revamped my accessory tier list and I was wondering if i could use your format:

Spoiler: example

Obtained from surface chest:

-Aglet C+

-Climbing Claws C-

-Etc X

Obtained from early enemy drops:

-Shackle C+

-Bezoar C+

-Etc X

Etc

Edit: I'm gonna take the like as a yes.

 

[Baconfry]

You said that the Christmas Tree Sword was better than the North Pole. I just got a new Christmas Tree Sword but I'm having trouble on figuring out how to use it effectively. I tried to use it to leave a trail behind me for flying bosses, but that didn't work too well, and I can't figure out a good angle for crowds. Do you have any suggestions?

note to self: don't evaluate things until you've tested them next to each other. This is definitely not better than the North Pole. It only felt like it was better than the North Pole because I hadn't experienced North Pole + autoswing yet. North Pole beats it by a mile vs. grounded Santanks, and it's probably about the same for aerial combat since snowflakes deal less damage the more of them are on your screen. It's definitely better than Terra Blade though.

On another note, I was pleasantly surprised by the Elf Melter's performance considering how disappointing the Flamethrower turned out to be. Might test it out against Lunar Events later.

 

[draeken]

Bacon, is there any chance for a pre-hardmode weapon tier guide from you? I really like your tier list

 

[Baconfry]

Bacon, is there any chance for a pre-hardmode weapon tier guide from you? I really like your tier list

I'm considering it, but that will have to be quite a while in the future-- my hands are a bit full right now, as you can probably guess

 

[starman2995]

I recently noticed that you changed the rating of the golden shower from S or S+ to A, and while I can understand dropping it in relation to other weapons, I would argue that it deserves to match the other spell weapons at A+. It might not be as strong as them as a primary weapon, but its versatility in both primary and secondary use makes it on the same level as them in my opinion. It is one of the best, and maybe even the best, weapon for tagging enemies with ichor because of the multiple piercing streams, and its extremely fast and accurate projectile makes it really consistent to hit with if you are good with aiming the arc. It may not be as good of a primary as the dart pistol/rifle as a primary, but if you are putting that much weight in that comparison, most of the other weapons on the list (including the other spell books) would probably be lower as well compared to them.

 

[CST1229]

Why are all the numbers in the stats censored?

 

[SsIras]

It's definitely better than Terra Blade though.

Don't know if you still hold this opinion since apparently you removed it from Christmas Tree Sword description, but I'm really convinced Terrablade is still much better. It does more damage even against individual enemies, has way more range and pierces. The only advantage CTS has is to create a hazard field to protect you, but I think it's damage is far to low to make up for that.

 

[chapapote]

Why are all the numbers in the stats censored?

They aren't censored, it's just that there aren't numbers. The number of hashes tells the stat strength.

 

[Baconfry]

Don't know if you still hold this opinion since apparently you removed it from Christmas Tree Sword description, but I'm really convinced Terrablade is still much better. It does more damage even against individual enemies, has way more range and pierces. The only advantage CTS has is to create a hazard field to protect you, but I think it's damage is far too low to make up for that.

Hmm. I just tested them both out against Duke Fishron, and they were kind of comparable to each other, but only because Fishron charges a lot, which gives CTS an advantage. It was pretty much tied in DPS with Vampire Knives when I tested it against Frost Moon. Definitely not very good. Yeah, after some testing, I think it's worse than the Terra Blade.

 

[SsIras]

Hmm. I just tested them both out against Duke Fishron, and they were kind of comparable to each other, but only because Fishron charges a lot, which gives CTS an advantage. It was pretty much tied in DPS with Vampire Knives when I tested it against Frost Moon. Definitely not very good. Yeah, after some testing, I think it's worse than the Terra Blade.

Yeah, I also tested it on Fishron, Terra Blade did the job in 3 minutes while CTS did in 3 minutes and 40 seconds.
I really think it would work well if it had a bit more damage, but right now it struggles a bit against the mech bosses.


It is easier to obtain than the Terra Blade though.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

The Cool Whip's snowflake projectile is what the Frost armor set bonus should have been, honestly. Against large crowds of enemies, this weapon's total DPS is probably comparable to that of the Firecracker, but it's not as concentrated on a single target, so the Firecracker still outclasses it as a bossing whip, especially because the snowflake is too slow and dumb to track bosses properly. The Firecracker also has more lategame utility. So you could probably afford to skip the Cool Whip. It's a very strange whip that doesn't synergize with minions whatsoever.

.............DPS: ###
Crowd control: ###
......Accuracy: #####
.....Disruption: ###
..........Safety: ###
....Availability: ###

Crafted from Frost Core, Soul of Light x8, Soul of Night x8 at a Hardmode Anvil
Best prefix: Sluggish/Bulky $$

Trying to take on the daunting task of evaluating every weapon in the game, post Wall of Flesh is quite ambitious, so I'm here to make your life harder, of course (LoL).
When it comes to Summoner Class, there are a ton of things to consider when analyzing it's gear, as the amount of different combinations can be mindbogglingly vast.
With that being said, I'd argue that Snowflake has great synergy with Minions like Blade Staff & Twins Staff, as their pathing methods can be quite large & out-reaching in spaced correctly. Minions are only a dumb as their Summoner allows IMHO.

Example: 1,117 DPS on Flying Dutchman; Master Mode (Spider Armor, two summoned Imp Staff Minions, three summoned Pirate Staff Minions & Cool Whip).

Though I don't totally agree with your placement of the Cool Whip, it's pretty fair, I'd bump it up a single tier myself though, as it's damage potential is pretty out-of-this word (see above). I also think that Legendary is the best Modifier, especially when upgrading & combining the Minions from Blade Staff + Twin Staff.

 

[Dapling]

Trying to take on the daunting task of evaluating every weapon in the game, post Wall of Flesh is quite ambitious, so I'm here to make your life harder, of course (LoL).
When it comes to Summoner Class, there are a ton of things to consider when analyzing it's gear, as the amount of different combinations can be mindbogglingly vast.
With that being said, I'd argue that Snowflake has great synergy with Minions like Blade Staff & Twins Staff, as their pathing methods can be quite large & out-reaching in spaced correctly. Minions are only a dumb as their Summoner allows IMHO.

View attachment 279209
Example: 1,117 DPS on Flying Dutchman; Master Mode (Spider Armor, two summoned Imp Staff Minions, three summoned Pirate Staff Minions & Cool Whip).

Though I don't totally agree with your placement of the Cool Whip, it's pretty fair, I'd bump it up a single tier myself though, as it's damage potential is pretty out-of-this word (see above). I also think that Legendary is the best Modifier, especially when upgrading & combining the Minions from Blade Staff + Twin Staff.

Legendary isn't the best modifier because modifiers which give speed to whips actually decrease their effective range, and modifiers which affect size don't work on whips either. Bulky is the best whip modifier because it both lowers it's speed (increasing it's range so you don't have to get close to your enemies as the squishiest class in the game) and increases damage of the whip.

Also, you can't really consider 1000 dps to be good on the flying dutchman if you're cheesing it through a wall where it just stops moving, you shouldn't even be getting close enough to a flying dutchman to use a whip, especially on master mode. The Cool Whip also doesn't improve summons through tag damage or multipliers as well, so you're better off using the Firecracker or just a weapon from another class (summoner was designed around playing impure, even Red said he considered it a subclass of the other three classes.)

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Legendary isn't the best modifier because modifiers which give speed to whips actually decrease their effective range, and modifiers which affect size don't work on whips either. Bulky is the best whip modifier because it both lowers it's speed (increasing it's range so you don't have to get close to your enemies as the squishiest class in the game) and increases damage of the whip.

I'm not accounting for how players choose to use Whips & what they can use padding for, if you wanna use the lashes in intervals, you can easily do that yourself. Legendary doesn't stop you from counting to 1.5 seconds & continuing your strikes, or even lashing in the intervals that Snowflake is likely to disappear, so you can re-Summon. The potential is better & I also believe that Legendary gives the most DPS.

Also, you can't really consider 1000 dps to be good on the flying dutchman if you're cheesing it through a wall where it just stops moving, you shouldn't even be getting close enough to a flying dutchman to use a whip, especially on master mode. The Cool Whip also doesn't improve summons through tag damage or multipliers as well, so you're better off using the Firecracker or just a weapon from another class (summoner was designed around playing impure, even Red said he considered it a subclass of the other three classes.)

I hope you're right, but I don't think you are~ as I recently had to make an entire, jumbled guide, showing players that Summoner was actually pretty powerful & so were Whips. You're gonna have to show me numbers or footage where Firecracker is doing over 1,000 DPS or something similar. I just chose the Dutchman clip because it was the easiest to execute while also taking a SnapShot, but I can also get pretty close to these number fighting Biome Mimics. Unless you show me physical proof, you won't be able to change my mind; this sounds like theory-crafting.

 

[Dapling]

I'm not accounting for how players choose to use Whips & what they can use padding for, if you wanna use the lashes in intervals, you can easily do that yourself. Legendary doesn't stop you from counting to 1.5 seconds & continuing your strikes, or even lashing in the intervals that Snowflake is likely to disappear, so you can re-Summon. The potential is better & I also believe that Legendary give the most DPS.

DPS doesn't matter when you can't even hit an enemy from 10 blocks away. That's what the "safety" stat is for, and why the Psycho Knife isn't the new meta. Only the Firecracker really benefits from the higher speed because it's ability only activates for one minion hit.

I hope you're right, but I don't think you are~ as I recently had to make an entire, jumbled guide, showing players that Summoner was actually pretty powerful & so were Whips. You're gonna have to show me numbers or footage where Firecracker is doing over 1,000 DPS or something similar. I just chose the Dutchman clip because it was the easiest to execute while also taking a SnapShot, but I can also get pretty close to these number fighting Biome Mimics. Unless you show me physical proof, you won't be able to change my mind; this sounds like theory-crafting.

It's not a theory, red literally said it for the 8th anniversary Q&A:

He straight up says it's a subclass of all the others. You can't get more clear about being meant to play it impure than that.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

DPS doesn't matter when you can't even hit an enemy from 10 blocks away. That's what the "safety" stat is for, and why the Psycho Knife isn't the new meta. Only the Firecracker really benefits from the higher speed because it's ability only activates for one minion hit.

What the average player has difficulty doing & a Weapon's maximum potential are no the same thing. I'm discussing what I've done & have provided proof. I'm not going to argue with a person who's theory-crafting; we'd be going back & forth forever & get nowhere. Show me evidence or leave it be.

It's not a theory, red literally said it for the 8th anniversary Q&A:
View attachment 279216
He straight up says it's a subclass of all the others. You can't get more clear about being meant to play it impure than that.

I already talked about this in my guide [here]. I don't disagree with what Redigit is saying, I'm disagreeing with you & your critique on Cool Whip.

 

[Dapling]

What the average player has difficulty doing & a Weapon's maximum potential are no the same thing. I'm discussing what I've done & have provided proof. I'm not going to argue with a person who's theory-crafting; we'd be going back & forth forever & get nowhere. Show me evidence or leave it be.

Sorry, I haven't bothered to use whips too much, because I've found I can kill things much faster without even bothering with them half the time (except for maybe the durendal, firecracker, and kaleidoscope). I did actually use the Cool Whip in a playthrough, and... I didn't really get any real performance out of it. A weapon's max potential is kind of unimportant when you're moving around WAY too much to get said max potential, and all three mechs require you to move around way too much, with the Twins especially hard countering whips to a ridiculous degree once Spazmatism enters it's second phase. Saying a weapon's "max potential" is completely theoretical anyway, because you, most of the time, are not going to be able to tap into that max potential. Enemies will move too quickly for your summons (*cough snowflake cough*) and you won't be able to hit things with your whip a lot of the time for the same reasons. Again, it's like saying the Psycho Knife is one of the best weapons in the game because of it's DPS potential once you're stealthed.

Saying I'm theorycrafting is ironic when you throw around words like "maximum potential," which are, by definition, theoretical. The word "potential" is theoretical.

 

[J Bame]

Example: 1,117 DPS on Flying Dutchman; Master Mode (Spider Armor, two summoned Imp Staff Minions, three summoned Pirate Staff Minions & Cool Whip).

1000k DPS on 4 targets is actually really bad. That's about 250 DPS on a single target, and the Cool Whip is apparently part of that since you have a bunch of minions on one cannon. Not to mention that Cool Whip is just a support weapon; you only hit once to summon the Snowflake and then go back to Firecracker for that sweet triple DPS on one minion or anything with infinite pierce for crowd control.

The Snowflake isn't particularly strong or useful on anything (even on Destroyer it's not worth it over just attacking all the time with something stronger), so the B+ is justified on it since it's just a bit of extra DPS at the cost of a bit of micro.

 

[Baconfry]

OK, I've tested both against Prime and Twins (spider armor, sanguine bats). Sluggish Firecracker did pretty well, dealing 200 damage with each blazing energy proc (normal damage is around 50). Bulky Cool Whip did basically nothing with its projectile, which was trailing behind for most of the fight, and I doubt that the snowflake could match the damage output of a single blazing energy proc even if I allowed it to do its thing for ten whole seconds.

To be fair, the Firecracker is a whip that benefits a lot from increased more attack speed, so I would actually consider Legendary a viable modifier for it. However, it is the only whip whose secondary effect scales with attack speed. Most other whips would prefer greater range. The DPS of the whip itself is not going to be impressive whether you're Sluggish or Legendary. I'll list Legendary as a potential best modifier for Firecracker, though.

 

[Toxophilite [East]]

Sorry, I haven't bothered to use whips too much, because I've found I can kill things much faster without even bothering with them...Again, it's like saying the Psycho Knife is one of the best weapons in the game because of it's DPS potential once you're stealthed.

I never said that, you did. I also don't agree with your wild comparisons. I'd never insinuate that Cool Whip was the best Whip in the game, that'd be intellectually dishonest. What I am doing is still developing the Meta for the Weapon, which is why the jury is out on it's maximum potential for me. The insane DPS I was able to do, was synergized with Pirate Staff Minions x3 & Imp Staff Minions x 2. I now currently have Blade Staff Minions x3 & Twin Staff Minions x2, which will most certainly give different results. Which is why use of the word "potential" is honest, because I'm still testing things as of this message, not the same as theory-crafting.

Saying I'm theorycrafting is ironic when you throw around words like "maximum potential," which are, by definition, theoretical. The word "potential" is theoretical.

I'm not sure how semantics helps your argument, but I'm not here to have a word debate, I just disagree with the placement of Cool Whip on this tier list & provided evidence to suggest it.