In-depth Hardmode weapon tier list

Sled-nautilus5000 said:
Turtles can easily be interrupted with a weapon or minion when performing their "backflips" and fighting the pillars is a nightmare even with defense. Also the moon lord's deathray is very easy to dodge, it's very predictable and you just need room.
Also, as @Derpling SnΩ said, defense isn't a useful defensive stat compared to damage reduction or dodge chance.
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Doge chance is hard to maximize tho while increasing dmg
 
SuperSkeletonboi said:
hahaha but summoner is 2 def and run away lol only like, 27 def for hallowed summoner, hood has lower def than cobalt MAGE helm
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Hallowed has an insane defensive set bonus, and its the only form of defensive investment that works against enraged Empress. The build I showed is basicly what I use to fight enrage Empress of light.

If you still aren't happy with the survival investment on my build then you can swap out the avenger emblem for a charm of myths, or frozen shield, those are way better than trying to make a worthwhile defense stat.


Derpling SnΩ said:
No it isn't. If you know what you're doing you will almost always have a dashing accessory, which is covered by the Master Ninja Gear. And the Brain of Confusion also increases damage while giving dodge chance.
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Brain of confusion can't proc a dodge while the crit bonus is active. It's either a dodge or a crit but not both at the same time.
 
qwerty3.14 said:
Brain of confusion can't proc a dodge while the crit bonus is active. It's either a dodge or a crit but not both at the same time.
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Fair, but it's not really likely that will matter most of the time. If you're getting hit multiple times in four seconds then dodge chance likely wasn't going to prevent that many hits anyway.
 
It seems that in my hands rainbow gun is a lot more profitable than magnet sphere in all cases, where it is more than 1 enemy.

Theory:
Calculations: magnet sphere exists for 7 seconds an hits at a rate equal to use time of 9 (6,6 times/sec)
In my set it does 95 dmg and 30% crit
Result – 805 DPS
Total damage dealt – 805*7 = 5635 damage

Rainbow gun: 89 damage in my case, 30% crit, hits enemy 5 times/sec, lasts for 20 seconds infinite pierces (most important)
Calculations: 1 enemy – 89*5*1,3 = 578,5 dps
But, at events (for what it was designed) there are at least more than 3 enemies, which results in >1700 dps
So, total damage dealt is 1700*20 = 34000 damage, if enemies could survive that

Practice:
So, in real fight, imagine you are firing razorpine (3200 dps). Switching and casting magnet sphere requires 1 second approximately, so you lose 3200 dmg

Magnet sphere: 5635-3200 = 2435 dmg profit, stable since it auto-aims

Rainbow gun (cast it horizontally, to hit all foes), in frost moon gives about 1500 dps for 20 seconds, 30000 total dmg
Sure, its not stable, weaker enemies die, knockback-resistant ones escape, lets take 1/3 of the result, 10000 dmg

Rainbow gun: 10000-3200 = 6800 damage profit, unstable

Whats more, in pumpkin moon it is significally better (up to 3000 dps, 20 sec) against OOA its more effective against grounded foes than any sentry for 1 side.
Magnet sphere still does its 800 dps for 7 sec in any case.
I think with such a difference magnet sphere's stability is not that important
What are your ideas?
 
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AngryNimbus said:
It seems that in my hands rainbow gun is a lot more profitable than magnet sphere in all cases, where it is more than 1 enemy.

Theory:
Calculations: magnet sphere exists for 7 seconds an hits at a rate equal to use time of 9 (6,6 times/sec)
In my set it does 95 dmg and 30% crit
Result – 805 DPS
Total damage dealt – 805*7 = 5635 damage

Rainbow gun: 89 damage in my case, 30% crit, hits enemy 5 times/sec, lasts for 20 seconds infinite pierces (most important)
Calculations: 1 enemy – 89*5*1,3 = 578,5 dps
But, at events (for what it was designed) there are at least more than 3 enemies, which results in >1700 dps
So, total damage dealt is 1700*20 = 34000 damage, if enemies could survive that

Practice:
So, in real fight, imagine you are firing razorpine (3200 dps). Switching and casting magnet sphere requires 1 second approximately, so you lose 3200 dmg

Magnet sphere: 5635-3200 = 2435 dmg profit, stable since it auto-aims

Rainbow gun (cast it horizontally, to hit all foes), in frost moon gives about 1500 dps for 20 seconds, 30000 total dmg
Sure, its not stable, weaker enemies die, knockback-resistant ones escape, lets take 1/3 of the result, 10000 dmg

Rainbow gun: 10000-3200 = 6800 damage profit, unstable

Whats more, in pumpkin moon it is significally better (up to 3000 dps, 20 sec) against OOA its more effective against grounded foes than any sentry for 1 side.
Magnet sphere still does its 800 dps for 7 sec in any case.
I think with such a difference magnet sphere's stability is not that important
What are your ideas?
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Magnet Sphere being stable actually makes a pretty big difference in my experience. Rainbow Gun covers only a very narrow, thin area and is pretty hard to aim while Magnet Sphere consistently harms enemies in a several tile radius of the bullet. Rainbow Gun can however hit multiple of enemies and lingers longer. This makes Magnet Sphere superior for bosses and Rainbow Gun the superior choice for events.

The issue with this, though, is that Rainbow Gun occupies piercing frames. You cannot use a Spectre Staff, Staff of Earth, etc. in tandem with the Rainbow Gun and are limited single target weapons of the tier. This isn’t a problem on its own considering how good Heat Ray and Bat Scepter are - until you remember that Rainbow Gun is designed for crowds, and being limited in your crowd control options just to use Rainbow Gun is a severe hit to how good it actually is in practice.
 
whoneedsnamestbh said:
Magnet Sphere being stable actually makes a pretty big difference in my experience. Rainbow Gun covers only a very narrow, thin area and is pretty hard to aim while Magnet Sphere consistently harms enemies in a several tile radius of the bullet. Rainbow Gun can however hit multiple of enemies and lingers longer. This makes Magnet Sphere superior for bosses and Rainbow Gun the superior choice for events.

The issue with this, though, is that Rainbow Gun occupies piercing frames. You cannot use a Spectre Staff, Staff of Earth, etc. in tandem with the Rainbow Gun and are limited single target weapons of the tier. This isn’t a problem on its own considering how good Heat Ray and Bat Scepter are - until you remember that Rainbow Gun is designed for crowds, and being limited in your crowd control options just to use Rainbow Gun is a severe hit to how good it actually is in practice.
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Decent point, and I realized that mage has some weapons with lasting properties, like razorblade typhoon, wasp gun with spectre staff (when their hit-rate is slowed down by i-frames), so switching time issue doesnt matter sometimes
They are all piercing, so yeah
I was torn between high-B and low-A tiers for magnet sphere in my ranking, so now its A for sure
 
AngryNimbus said:
Decent point, and I realized that mage has some weapons with lasting properties, like razorblade typhoon, wasp gun with spectre staff (when their hit-rate is slowed down by i-frames), so switching time issue doesnt matter sometimes
They are all piercing, so yeah
I was torn between high-B and low-A tiers for magnet sphere in my ranking, so now its A for sure
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Aim speed makes Magnet Sphere a lot more valuable and unique among magic weapons, Rainbow is more of an upgrade to static magic weapons like the Nimbus Rod where you have to strategically aim it, Magnet is something you can deploy without as much thought which works well with other homing weapons.
 
SsIras said:
Aim speed makes Magnet Sphere a lot more valuable and unique among magic weapons, Rainbow is more of an upgrade to static magic weapons like the Nimbus Rod where you have to strategically aim it, Magnet is something you can deploy without as much thought which works well with other homing weapons.
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its not spammable and only hits one enemy despawning when too far
 
SuperSkeletonboi said:
"laughs in every summon weapon"
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Nothing stopping you from using a summon weapon, a magnet sphere and a base weapon simultaneously.

Also, whips may suck for a non-summon focused build, but because of the tag damage they end up actually being kind of stupid in a summon focused build. Summoners can pull more DPS than any other class at times if you get whip tags in.
 
whoneedsnamestbh said:
Nothing stopping you from using a summon weapon, a magnet sphere and a base weapon simultaneously.

Also, whips may suck for a non-summon focused build, but because of the tag damage they end up actually being kind of stupid in a summon focused build. Summoners can pull more DPS than any other class at times if you get whip tags in.
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"laughs in phantasm, zenith and last prism"
 
Plantera there is true nights edge, uzi (potentially duke fishron drops) cursed flames and stormbow
wall we have (anything for melee i gueess) star cannon minishark, demon scythe
 
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