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In-depth Hardmode weapon tier list

Dreadnautilus5000

Brain of Cthulhu
Please stop blaming your inability to dodge ML at close-range on the Hallowed armor.
You might be someone who's capable of doing that, but I'm pretty sure that 99.9% of players can't do it. I have never seen or heard about anyone aggressively whipping Moon Lord at close range other than you.
Set up Chlorophyte arrow rain with OOA armor and 1-2 Ranger damage accessories. Once that's done switch to your main Summoner armor and ditch the Ranger accessories for your regular Summoner accessories. The time you spend re-summoning your max amount of minions is more than made up by the headstart provided by chlorophyte rain. If playing "Pure" Summoner this is quite literally legal because of Red Riding armor being a hybrid armor set, thus allowing the usage of Ranger weapons & accessories as long as the armor is equipped.
If you wear Red Riding armour, you lose a significant amount of minion slots, and if you replace summoner accessories with ranger ones you'll also lose minion slots and summon damage. Rangers can add three minions to their builds without replacing any armour or accessories and sacrificing their own damage. And as I said before, this strategy specifically uses Shroomite armour's stealth, which makes a huge damage difference, but which summoners can't use without becoming entirely ranger.
Saucer phase 2 will quite literally not allow you to fly away. You're almost forced into dashing left and right constantly to avoid his laser.
Actually this is incorrect. If you're using hover wings or an infinite flight mount you can outpace the Saucer and its laser.

And one other thing...
BTW, another reason to rank Kaleidoscope S or (just do it) S+: Since once again availability isn't taken into account, this means Terraprisma is a Pre-Golem weapon. It provides thousands of single target DPS combined with Blade Staff and beyond, being on par or outperforming other S+ weapons like Tsunami & especially Razorblade Typhoon. It obliterates Golem, it obliterates Pumpkin Moon and delete crowds nearly instantly, it can attack Cursed Skulls through walls in the Hardmode Dungeon, it speeds up Martian invasions a lot and can burn through Martian Saucer's first phase faster than almost if not all other weapons. Just rise it.
How does Terraprisma provide thousands of single target DPS to Blade Staff? And what's the connection between Terraprisma outperforming almost every single pre-Moon Lord weapon in every regard, and Kaleidoscope?
 
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Shyguymask

Terrarian
You might be someone who's capable of doing that, but I'm pretty sure that 99.9% of players can't do it. I have never seen or heard about anyone aggressively whipping Moon Lord at close range other than you.
It only brings back the discussion about if we should only rank weapons at their max potential even if the skill ceiling is relatively very high.


you lose a significant amount of minion slots, and if you replace summoner accessories with ranger ones you'll also lose minion slots and summon damage.
I JUST pointed out that you can simply switch back to main summoner gear during the fight though?

And as I said before, this strategy specifically uses Shroomite armour's stealth, which makes a huge damage difference, but which summoners can't use without becoming entirely ranger.
Fair, but you will still regardless deal a bunch of damage at the start of the fight, probably cutting the top eye's HP down to 1/3 or something around that. It'll save a significant amount of time, letting Summoner kill the top eye right at around the time ML fires the first Deathray laser.


Actually this is incorrect. If you're using hover wings or an infinite flight mount you can outpace the Saucer and its laser.
Yeah that's why I said "almost" forced. There are options to outpace him, but for standard loadouts with dashes and no mounts you are not going to outrun Saucer. Maybe have it next to you consistently if you spam dash in the same direction fast, but I find going left and right the easier and more consistent option. Either way the Saucer will be in whip range in those cases.

How does Terraprisma provide thousands of single target DPS to Blade Staff?
I've been really inattentive with typos lately. I meant to say Kaleidoscope.

Pray tell, how does one fly upwards again if they're already in space?

I try to fly to space layer as least often as possible, especially when the main Deathray laser isn't involved. Otherwise I have Hallowed Armor backing me up, it's what makes it amazing.

The True Eyes shoot them too, and also like to do it right in front of your face, which happens a ton within whip range

Unless the True Eyes are actually uncomfortably close to me, I otherwise just treat them as another source of projectile spam that follows the rest of the projectiles.
 
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Dreadnautilus5000

Brain of Cthulhu
It only brings back the discussion about if we should only rank weapons at their max potential even if the skill ceiling is relatively very high.
No, that isn't a good mindset. One of the points of a tier list like this is to tell more inexperienced players whether to get they should get these weapons and use them, or if it's not worth it. If the creator of a tier list ranks a certain weapon high, then newer players who see it might specifically try to get that weapon and use it. If said weapon is extremely difficult to use effectively, then people wouldn't want to use the tier list because to them the weapon wouldn't perform well while the tier list creator said it was good.
I JUST pointed out that you can simply switch back to main summoner gear during the fight though?
What I'm trying to say is that rangers can just summon some minions before the fight for free extra damage without losing out on anything, whereas in order for summoners to use the Chlorophyte Arrow strat they must switch their armour and accessories before and after.
Yeah that's why I said "almost" forced. There are options to outpace him, but for standard loadouts with dashes and no mounts you are not going to outrun Saucer. Maybe have it next to you consistently if you spam dash in the same direction fast, but I find going left and right the easier and more consistent option. Either way the Saucer will be in whip range in those cases.
In Expert Mode, you've got access to the Witch's Broom and Shrimpy Truffle before Martian Madness, and it makes perfect sense for a casual player to have one of those. And even without infinite flight mounts, I think that you could use Asphalt or a Blessed Apple.
I've been really inattentive with typos lately. I meant to say Kaleidoscope.
In that case, how does Kaleidoscope "delete crowds nearly instantly"? Especially when compared to weapons like Staff of Earth, Stake Launcher, Dark Harvest, Razorblade Typhoon, Eventide, Stellar Tune, and Charged Blaster Cannon, it doesn't have the best crowd control.
 

Shyguymask

Terrarian
No, that isn't a good mindset.
Tell that to tier lists in 99% of video games in general. Even on games like Kingdom Rush for example, a hero like Durax is ranked & considered S tier despite being abnormally micro-heavy.

If said weapon is extremely difficult to use effectively, then people wouldn't want to use the tier list because to them the weapon wouldn't perform well while the tier list creator said it was good.
Yet nobody is having issues with Blade Staff being ranked S+ despite being one of the most complicated weapons in the game, requiring whip stacking to be on par or outperform other "Meta" weapons.

whereas in order for summoners to use the Chlorophyte Arrow strat they must switch their armour and accessories before and after.
No problem about that. Just spend a couple of seconds right clicking several times and then some left click to max out minion count again.

In Expert Mode, you've got access to the Witch's Broom and Shrimpy Truffle before Martian Madness, and it makes perfect sense for a casual player to have one of those. And even without infinite flight mounts, I think that you could use Asphalt or a Blessed Apple.
I can acknowledge that, but my point stands that Martian Saucer comes toward you and becomes a simple target for whipping.

In that case, how does Kaleidoscope "delete crowds nearly instantly"? Especially when compared to weapons like Staff of Earth, Stake Launcher, Dark Harvest, Razorblade Typhoon, Eventide, Stellar Tune, and Charged Blaster Cannon, it doesn't have the best crowd control.
Pre-Hardmode whips do stuff like this when coupled with Blade Staff. But if I need to record one or two short Kaleidoscope clips to make it convincing, I guess I'll have no other choice. But you look at these gifs, and you remember the fact Kaleidoscope has nearly double the range of Spinal Tap, attacks faster with Dark Harvest in mind, has way stronger Summon tag effects and has around 6x the base damage.

cjJIWld.gif


xLISLee.gif
 

Dreadnautilus5000

Brain of Cthulhu
Yet nobody is having issues with Blade Staff being ranked S+ despite being one of the most complicated weapons in the game, requiring whip stacking to be on par or outperform other "Meta" weapons.
In general the mech bosses (excluding Destroyer) and Plantera aren't much harder to dodge at close range and usually move toward you, so I don't think that stacking Durendal and Spinal Tap on them is that difficult. Plus you can use Shark Tooth and/or Stinger Necklace to increase Blade Staff's damage per hit by a reasonable amount without requiring any whipping.
No problem about that. Just spend a couple of seconds right clicking several times and then some left click to max out minion count again.
It's not just right clicking several times, as combat accessories can't go in vanity slots, so you have to manually move them over, while fighting ML.
Pre-Hardmode whips do stuff like this when coupled with Blade Staff. But if I need to record one or two short Kaleidoscope clips to make it convincing, I guess I'll have no other choice. But you look at these gifs, and you remember the fact Kaleidoscope has nearly double the range of Spinal Tap, attacks faster with Dark Harvest in mind, has way stronger Summon tag effects and has around 6x the base damage.

cjJIWld.gif


xLISLee.gif
You didn't show Kaleidoscope outperforming the weapons I mentioned, and those were pretty random enemies, some of which were on low health already.

I bet if you test Kaleidoscope + a Pre-Cultist minion (Dark Harvest is NOT ALLOWED TO BE USED WHATSOEVER) and some of weapons I mentioned against tier 3 OOA, you'd find that the other weapons would do better.
 

Shyguymask

Terrarian
It's not just right clicking several times, as combat accessories can't go in vanity slots, so you have to manually move them over, while fighting ML.
Just fly away for a bit. If you can whip stack, then you can more than manage a bit of accessory management at the start of the ML fight.


You didn't show Kaleidoscope outperforming the weapons I mentioned, and those were pretty random enemies, some of which were on low health already.
I think it's pretty clear that the gifs show groups of mostly fully healthy enemies being annihilated by a Pre-Hardmode whip that only a small fraction of the power of Kaleidoscope.

The difference in power between Pre-Mech mobs and Post-Plantera+ mobs is a whole lot smaller than the difference in power between Spinal Tap and Kaleidoscope. Even when not taking into account stronger accessories & stronger support whip (Dark Harvest).

I bet if you test Kaleidoscope + a Pre-Cultist minion (Dark Harvest is NOT ALLOWED TO BE USED WHATSOEVER) and some of weapons I mentioned against tier 3 OOA, you'd find that the other weapons would do better.
Not a very fair comparison, the only reason Kaleidoscope would struggle is not because of damage or pierce or range, but because it's not a projectile and it doesn't let you stay at the crystal. Razorblade Typhoon and such are undoubtedly better there, but anywhere else Kaleidoscope is just as good if not better at piercing clumps of enemies (Martians and Pillars)
 

Dreadnautilus5000

Brain of Cthulhu
Not a very fair comparison, the only reason Kaleidoscope would struggle is not because of damage or pierce or range, but because it's not a projectile and it doesn't let you stay at the crystal. Razorblade Typhoon and such are undoubtedly better there, but anywhere else Kaleidoscope is just as good if not better at piercing clumps of enemies (Martians and Pillars)
You don't need to stay at the crystal. The only things that could easily ambush the crystal while you're on the opposite side are Etherian Wyverns, Kobold Gliders and Etherian Lightning Bugs, but if you're using Clinger Staff and an Asphalt runway you should be able to eliminate them quick enough. But yes, the weapons I mentioned have a clear advantage against OOA.

Also I expect that these weapons would also be better against Martian Madness if a flat surface is used.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
Alright I've tested a ton of different builds on moonlord.
1624067987409.png


Phantasm Dragon
  • Phantasm, Stardust dragon staff
  • Shroomite headgear, red riding dress, red riding leggings
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Recon Scope, Destroyer Emblem.
  • All reforged to menacing
Before I started this testing I assumed that this build would have the fastest kill time. It also had enough range to avoid most of moonlord's attacks and avoid dieing. Of course not everyone is going to be as good ad dodging as I am so you may want more surivival in your build.

Spooky Whips
  • Kaleidoscope, Dark harvest, Durendel, Betsy's Wraith, Stardust Cell Staff
  • Full Spooky Armor
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Summoner Emblem, Berzerker glove.
  • All reforged to menacing
So if you have no regards for safety this build is for you, but seriously I don't think default kaleidiscope range with no surival gear is a viable option for moonlord. 27 practice rounds with only 2 victories.

Hallowed Whips
  • Kaleidoscope, Dark harvest, Durendel, Betsy's Wraith, Stardust Cell Staff, Stardust dragon staff (Phase 2)
  • Full hallowed(summoner)
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Charm of Myths, Berzerker glove.
  • All reforged to warding
This had the fewest deaths of any of the whip builds, but it still had more deaths than any of the non whip builds. On the second phase I switched to the stardust dragon and played passively. In case you're wondering why the first trial is faster than the others it's because on that one I forgot to switch to dragon until moonlord's second phase was half dead.

The survival granted by using dragon on the second phase is actual pretty good, priority target moonlord's core and dragon has no issue hitting moonlord offscreen.

Obsidian
  • Kaleidoscope, Dark harvest, Betsy's Wraith, Stardust Cell Staff
  • Full Obsidian
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Summoner Emblem, Berzerker glove.
  • All reforged to menacing
I somehow beat moonlord first try with this build? Although it seems I haven't gotten a consistent pattern with this since I died a lot more often than I won.

The whip range is a huge survival improvement over the spooky whip build about 4x the survival rate, however the whip range still isn't as much as what I'm getting with a phantasm or daybreak.

FWIUP
  • Phantasm, Stardust Cell Staff
  • Full Spooky Armor
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Summoner Emblem, Berzerker glove.
  • All reforged to menacing
This is the same as the spooky whips build except instead of using whips I used the phantasm. Obviously this is a terrible build. It had the most deaths of any non whip build, probably because it doesn't have any survival perks, and its low dps means I have to deal with moonlrod longer than on the dps builds.

PD Valhala
  • Phantasm, Stardust dragon staff
  • Shroomite headgear, Valhala breastplate, red riding leggings
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Recon Scope, Destroyer Emblem.
  • All reforged to menacing
If you need a bit more survival on your phantasm build this gives you 4hp/s life regeneration while only being a few second slower than the origonal.

PD Hallowed
  • Phantasm, Stardust dragon staff
  • Full hallowed(summoner)
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Recon Scope, Destroyer Emblem.
  • All reforged to menacing
This build got about the same kill time as the PD Valhala build, now the question is. What's better? Holy Protection or 4hp/s regen and 24 extra defense.

SUPATANK
  • Daybreak, Stardust dragon staff
  • Full beetle(shell)
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Forzen Shield, Worm Scarf, Charm of Myths, Star Veil.
  • All reforged to warding
How tank is SUPATANK?? Well Before actually doing the test I stood on the ground and let moonlord pummel me (used a heal potion), it took 38 seconds for moonlord to kill me! Now imagine instead of standing on the ground helplessly you actually put a smigit of effort into not getting hit by every attack, and yeah you're not going to die.

DD Hallowed
  • Daybreak, Stardust dragon staff
  • Full hallowed(summoner)
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Avenger Emblem, Destroyer Emblem.
  • All reforged to menacing
Very similar to the phantasm variant with a very similar kill time. This got me into thinking... I did some math.
1624082220390.png

In addition to all that daybreak can deal up to 800DoT, now this DoT is not very effective against the eyes since thier constant blinking resets the buildup. Just another reason to use daybreak on the core.

PDD Spooky
  • Phantasm, Daybreak, Stardust dragon staff
  • Full Spooky
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Avenger Emblem, Destroyer Emblem.
  • All reforged to menacing
Phase 1 I used the phantasm, did so much damage that I one cycled the head! Once phase 2 started I right clicked the core with the stardust dragon staff then switched to the daybreak. This was the highest dps build I found.

Ranger
  • Phantasm, Stardust dragon staff
  • Shroomite headgear, red riding dress, red riding leggings
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Avenger Emblem, Sniper Scope, Recon Scope, Destroyer Emblem.
  • All reforged to menacing
Decided to test a more specialised ranger build. It performed about as well as the origonal phantasm dragon build, it has the exact same defense as said build so... do you want a 3 segment dragon or a 5 segment dragon?


So basicly.
SUPATANK had best survival.
PDD Spooky had the best kill time.
PD Valhala, PD or DD hallowed have a good mix of survival and dps.
 

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AngryNimbus

Terrarian
Summon vs. Mage.
Summon.gif
Mage.gif

BTW, another reason to rank Kaleidoscope S or (just do it) S+: Since once again availability isn't taken into account, this means Kaleidoscope is a Pre-Golem weapon. It provides thousands of single target DPS combined with Blade Staff and beyond, being on par or outperforming other S+ weapons like Tsunami & especially Razorblade Typhoon. It obliterates Golem, it obliterates Pumpkin Moon and delete crowds nearly instantly, it can attack Cursed Skulls through walls in the Hardmode Dungeon, it speeds up Martian invasions a lot and can burn through Martian Saucer's first phase faster than almost if not all other weapons. Just rise it.
"Especially outperforming Razorblade typhoon". Sure? Sometimes, not especially. Razorpine has a 1 second edge over summoner. Oh, such an inconvenience.

Results.gif


Please stop blaming your inability to dodge ML at close-range on the Hallowed armor.
OK. And you admit that summoner is 2x inferior to HB + statues and does not require super elite skills. I said why these are comparable. We are talking about the fastest ML kill, after all.
Whipstacking = Statue trick in my understanding, in the sense that it is not widely known and was not designed to be primarily used
Kaleidoscope setups against EoL have stable and easy 2500+ DPS with Blade Staff with Hallowed Armor. With Spooky Armor and Xeno Staff, I'm pretty sure it's stable 3500+ if not 4000+.
Typhoon is comparable to Xeno. Obviously, Blade staff cannot compete with them both. Even with 768 whips, and -347894 def- worth debuffs.
Yes. I'd literally prefer Hallowed armor even more for oneshotting ML than Daytime Empress.
Agreeable, considering perfect dodges.
It supports the fact of your perfect skills, but not denies that the boss is flawed in some way, compared to EoL and Duke.
Every flawed boss can be trained by many hours... and then one can argument that it is flawless


The fastest combined class loadout is this (thanks, Querty3.14, I dont need to see ML face any longer):
PDD Spooky
  • Phantasm, Daybreak, Stardust dragon staff
  • Full hallowed(summoner)
  • Betsy's wings, Soaring Insignia, Celestial Shell, Papyrus Scarab, Necrotic Scroll, Avenger Emblem, Destroyer Emblem.
  • All reforged to menacing
Phase 1 I used the phantasm, did so much damage that I one cycled the head! Once phase 2 started I right clicked the core with the stardust dragon staff then switched to the daybreak. This was the highest dps build I found.
 
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Shyguymask

Terrarian
"Especially outperforming Razorblade typhoon". Sure? Sometimes, not especially.
I'm pretty sure Kalei/Harvest/Spooky/Xeno can reach over 3500+ DPS. Probably 4000+. I don't remember Razorblade ever dealing that much DPS, even with Spectre armor. You must have done something wrong in the Empress DPS test for Razorblade to somehow kill her 2 seconds faster. In fact I know it because looking at my Expert mode EoL kill times with Hallowed armor & Blade staff, something is off with that Kalei/Harvest/Xeno/Spooky master mode kill time considering the large DPS difference.
Razorpine has a 1 second edge over summoner.
A weapon that specializes in single-target DPS only and doesn't have the destructive piercing the Kaleidoscope has.

OK. And you admit that summoner is 2x inferior to HB + statues and does not require super elite skills. I said why these are comparable. We are talking about the fastest ML kill, after all.
There is a reason I think Melee is the best class in general
Typhoon is comparable to Xeno. Obviously, Blade staff cannot compete with them both. Even with 768 whips, and -347894 def- worth debuffs.
How is Typhoon dealing 4000+ DPS, even with Spectre armor?...

Also, elaborate on Typhoon having "huge advantages" underground.
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
I'm pretty sure Kalei/Harvest/Spooky/Xeno can reach over 3500+ DPS. Probably 4000+. I don't remember Razorblade ever dealing that much DPS, even with Spectre armor. You must have done something wrong in the Empress DPS test for Razorblade to somehow kill her 2 seconds faster. In fact I know it because looking at my Expert mode EoL kill times with Hallowed armor & Blade staff, something is off with that Kalei/Harvest/Xeno/Spooky master mode kill time considering the large DPS difference.

A weapon that specializes in single-target DPS only and doesn't have the destructive piercing the Kaleidoscope has.


There is a reason I think Melee is the best class in general

How is Typhoon dealing 4000+ DPS, even with Spectre armor?...

Also, elaborate on Typhoon having "huge advantages" underground.
Well. Lets draw a conclusion I think. (And if I was rude sometimes I'm sorry, I haven't figured out ways of delivering of politeness in English)

Typhoon does about 2.5-3k dps. When I ascend on a mount with the same speed as the EoL, xeno fire rate decreases slightly. Try that without whips please, you'll notice. It ramps up during sun dance, and reaches 4k for a very brief period. Typhoon is stable.

Example. In PM wave 15 terra blade + Dark Harvest give 15k stable DPS. Desert Tiger Staff + Kaleidoscope and FC briefly shows 30k. But Terra scores more wave points overall. The DPS meter fluctuates a lot.

But no one will recognize Razorpine as crowd control weapon - > no one will use it this way. It was used just to show that mages are comparable to summoner.
A+ for Razorpine, S for Kalei versatilty, no one debates that. Kaleidoscope also renders most FM enemies useless (archers, copters). Extra points too. The Rainbow gun cannot disrupt copters.

You are great at switching, so you may consider spamming magnet spheres as a 3rd weapon and get rid of these flying pieces of annoyance.

Typhoon is bouncy, spammy, homing. Does not require direct line of sight, as whips. In other words, floods the area with projectiles. Xenos are, lets say, more obstacle dependant. Tiger needs recasting. Sanguine/Blade need direct LoS. In narrow passages, Sanguine bats and xenos may appear in front of blocks and do not target enemies in this case.

Melee... yeah. Def, lifesteal, and insane DPS at some progression stages

As for the rest... maybe I'm just bad with summoner, but please, don't get lured by DPS meter and its brief bursts of numbers.
I did that mistake at the past and messed up with a half of magic weapons (due to spectre mask/ mans sickness nature) in my personal tier list
Razorpine can deal 5.5k shortly too, but it does not reflect real results
 
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Shyguymask

Terrarian
Does not require direct line of sight, as whips.
Kaleidoscope kills stuff faster with minions, while also having the advantage of being able to target Cursed Skulls through walls. Personally I wouldn't rely on Typhoon too much for Hardmode dungeon, the area is so tight that Razorblade projectiles tend to get stuck and feel awkward to use at some places.

As for the rest... maybe I'm just bad with summoner, but please, don't get lured by DPS meter and its brief bursts of numbers.
I don't actually rely on brief bursts of numbers. If I did, I would have claimed that Post-cultist Summoner can deal 7000+ DPS with either Dragon or Cell. Maybe 8000+ for Cells, actually.
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
Kaleidoscope kills stuff faster with minions, while also having the advantage of being able to target Cursed Skulls through walls. Personally I wouldn't rely on Typhoon too much for Hardmode dungeon, the area is so tight that Razorblade projectiles tend to get stuck and feel awkward to use at some places.


I don't actually rely on brief bursts of numbers. If I did, I would have claimed that Post-cultist Summoner can deal 7000+ DPS with either Dragon or Cell. Maybe 8000+ for Cells, actually.
For dungeon & typhoon, agree, but for the exceptionally narrow passages. Kalei can't hit regular skeletons if there are any sort of obstacles. Typhoon will likely bounce and home in. If there is some space, Razorblade also seems to deal with teleporting enemier a bit better.

The Stellar tune can immensely help against cursed skulls and even reach sone other dungeon rooms,more effective than whips and minions (unless it is Dragon, or already attacking Terraprisma)

For mob control in narrow passges the Clinger Staff is effective, but it is easier to just destroy everyone with more powerful alternatives.

Good for you, then it should be true that in your hands summon > magic, but for me they are equal. What’s your times though, at least for 1 attempt, if it's not hard to provide these?
 

Shyguymask

Terrarian
Good for you, then it should be true that in your hands summon > magic, but for me they are equal. What’s your times though, at least for 1 attempt, if it's not hard to provide these?
I didn't record time when I played around with Dragon/Cells, but I can try doing that too once I have free time.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
Did some fragment tier build testing against daytime Empress.
1624122848144.png

All the builds used menacing accesories.
All the builds used celestial shell, papyrus scarab, and necrotic scroll.
Whip builds additionally used berzerk glove, hercules beetle, summoner emblem, and pygmy necklace.
Phantasm builds additionally used destroyer emblem, avenger emblem, sniper scope, and recon scope.
Used witch broom to avoid stuff.
When using star cells I used betsy's wrath, durendel, dark harvest and kaleidiscope.
When using firecracker I used dark harvest for speed boost.
Dragon was always used with phantasm and firecracker.

Empress is a boss I'm much more comfortable being close to so whips did much better here than on moonlord. I got most of my deaths when trying to stack stuff for the cell staff, probably because so much my attention was diverted away from dodging Empress trying to stack 3 whips and betsy's wrath. Despite firecracker's lower range I had much less trouble doing firecracker + dragon because I only had to push 2 then 1 every 4 seconds.

Fastest kill time was spooky build using firecracker with dragon, followed by ranged focused build with phantasm. Obsidian armor actually got a significantly worse time than spooky almost 50% longer, probably because the dragon itself is much weaker which firecracker's tag scales off of.

If you want to not die instantly against Empress you use hallowed armor, the best option here is to use phantasm + dragon, use whichever helmet you want they're practically the same. The whip builds really missed that massive summon damage, but phantasm doesn't care hallowed actually has more ranged damage than spooky.

In case you're wondering why I didn't test daybreak, Empress hard counters its gimmics, every time empress charges all the javelins just die and thier explosions don't damage empress like when moonlord's eyes close. Meanwhile Empress of light has less defense than moonlord so phantasm's weakness was less relevant.

And no I am not going to do firecracker + dragon on moonlord, I had enough trouble dealing with kaleidiscope's range and firecrackers range is even shorter than that. Firecrackers damage output wasn't impressive when i switched to obsidian or hallowed.
 
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AngryNimbus

Terrarian
1. I decided to go full offence this time.

Some adjustments to these:

Summoner: Worm scarf was swapped to summoner emblem for both +15% whip and minion damage. Tried my best to switch 2 whips and avoided wrong movement patterns to maximize UFO’s fire rate. (with my regular movement and worm scarf Xeno scored 52-56 seconds, as in previous results).

Mage: worm scarf >> avenger emblem (+12% dmg)

2. Tiger turned out to be more luck dependant. The more chances of FC attacks I had, the better result I scored.

3. The same situation, but with 3 UFOs. (also with spectre armor)

Xeno_-razorpine_-typhoon_-tiger.gif

4 deaths for xeno, 3 tiger, and a couple for razorpine

Edit: extra results for ranged (EoL)
extra.gif

Shroomite; Star veil, Frozen shield, Cel.shell, worm scarf, recon scope, sniper scope, BoC. All menacing.

Maybe in a week, I'll practice ML and then I"ll try to compete with Shyguymask's results (why, Nimbus, just use phantasm)


Quite comparable to the Zenith...
View attachment MK2.gif
 
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