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Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
A minor tweak:

Why not make it so that all the vanity minecarts are somewhat faster than the regular minecart? It would give the concept of a vanity cart purpose that isn't aesthetics. How about we keep the current top speed of 66 mph for the regular minecart but increase the speed of vanity minecarts to, say, 72 mph?
I must disagree on that one
I think all the Minecarts should be nerfed slightly, and Mechanical Cart should be nerfed by a lot.
72 mph is WAY too much for vanity minecarts
Mechanical cart should have this value in the best case scenario
72 MPH is almost enough to cheese ML and Daytime EoL. Making these obtainable Pre-HM? Just no.

Current Mech Cart outruns enraged Fishron and ALL ML attacks, including the deathray.

Other opinion is to nerf them all only during bossfights, which is more in line with upcoming patch
 

Flubman

Terrarian
One thing I'd suggest is making the Lunar Events shorter. Like half its current length (say, 50 enemies for Classic, 75 for Expert and above). A lot of people don't like this part of the game, and it's not hard to see why. Killing several hundred tough enemies for just a CHANCE at the notoriously-tough Moon Lord fight is a lot. It's not even a real challenge in all honesty (unless you're playing above softcore, which most people don't) because it's a matter of slamming your face into a wall 1,000 times until you destroy the pillars. You don't even lose money because Lunar Event enemies don't drop it. It's mostly just a grind that does a disservice to some of the coolest presentation Terraria has to offer.
 

MrD108

Official Terrarian
Since I mentioned Moon Lord before and I've seen some discussion of Deerclops, I figured I would touch on a few other bosses/minibosses that might need some tweaks.

Golem: It's a meme at this point how easy he is, but it's less clear how he could be fixed. I know that in FTW worlds he's actually really hard, mainly due to how quickly he attacks and moves, so siphoning a little of that magic into his regular fight could go a long way. I also think it would help a lot if his fists didn't retract when they take damage. Either of these changes would help a lot more than just a damage or health buff.

Lunatic Cultist: He's my personal favorite boss, but he's also really easy. Similarly to Golem, it would help a lot if his attack cycle were sped up, and his attacks could also stand to be a bit more spammy with their projectiles if possible. Also, I've suggested elsewhere that Gravity Globe be moved to the Cultist and his treasure bag made available, so I'll just throw that in again.

Solar Pillar: It feels weird that it's so much harder than all the other pillars. Part of it is that its mechanics are designed to force you to fight in a way that's antithesis to how you're used to fighting at this stage of the game, but then its enemies don't really need to deal as much damage as they do. I'd recommend either reducing the damage of its enemies by around 10-20%, or reducing its enemy spawn rate.

Hemogoblin Shark and Dreadnautilus: They're a lot harder than they feel like they should be for their place in progression. I'd recommend just an across the board damage/health/defense nerf for both of them of about 10%, and Hemo Shark should also take a little more knockback.

Golem could additionally jump up and on landing it would release a few boulders like from the Earth Staff.

Plus, it really would be nice if the Lunatic Cultist got its own expert accessory in this last update, but it definitely can't be something as powerful as the Gravity Globe ahead of Moon Lord. It should have its own unique accessory, but that is not the case.

Dreadnautilus, on the other hand, is an interesting case. He's supposed to be a mini-boss, in principle, but for some reason he's not recognized as such. Too bad, I would like to get his trophy, relic, and a pet that would hang around the player when equipped.
 

Flubman

Terrarian
I must disagree on that one
I think all the Minecarts should be nerfed slightly, and Mechanical Cart should be nerfed by a lot.
72 mph is WAY too much for vanity minecarts
Mechanical cart should have this value in the best case scenario
72 MPH is almost enough to cheese ML and Daytime EoL. Making these obtainable Pre-HM? Just no.

Current Mech Cart outruns enraged Fishron and ALL ML attacks, including the deathray.

Other opinion is to nerf them all only during bossfights, which is more in line with upcoming patch
I stand corrected.
 

NeoPhantom

Skeletron Prime
A minor tweak:

Why not make it so that all the vanity minecarts are somewhat faster than the regular minecart? It would give the concept of a vanity cart purpose that isn't aesthetics. How about we keep the current top speed of 66 mph for the regular minecart but increase the speed of vanity minecarts to, say, 72 mph?

Building on that, a couple could provide a bit of defense instead of speed for those that prefer safety.
 

GoldenTerrabyte

Empress of Light
I must disagree on that one
I think all the Minecarts should be nerfed slightly, and Mechanical Cart should be nerfed by a lot.
72 mph is WAY too much for vanity minecarts
Mechanical cart should have this value in the best case scenario
72 MPH is almost enough to cheese ML and Daytime EoL. Making these obtainable Pre-HM? Just no.

Current Mech Cart outruns enraged Fishron and ALL ML attacks, including the deathray.

Other opinion is to nerf them all only during bossfights, which is more in line with upcoming patch
I heavily disagree with nerfing the Mechanical Cart's ability to travel quickly. It's indispensable in mid-Hardmode if you have a sky rail or something of that nature, it makes getting around super convenient, especially for locations where you don't have a Pylon placed.
Make the bosses enrage and/or chase you way faster while you ride it, instead. Anything but killing its travel speed, please.
 

AngryNimbus

Terrarian
I heavily disagree with nerfing the Mechanical Cart's ability to travel quickly. It's indispensable in mid-Hardmode if you have a sky rail or something of that nature, it makes getting around super convenient, especially for locations where you don't have a Pylon placed.
Make the bosses enrage and/or chase you way faster while you ride it, instead. Anything but killing its travel speed, please.
This should work well, but adjusting AIs of most bosses is impossible for this update.
I don't see any excuses for such blatant boss abusing, especially given that 70 mph is more than enough for quick travelling.
So nerf is needed.
But compomise exists: cutting their speed only during bossfights.

Even 30% slower travelling (while, again, 70 instead of 102 Mph is enough, especially given that combo of conches, teleporters and pylons exists) is a lame excuse for justifinig easy post-Plant Terraprisma, which demolishes the last third of the game progression. It must be obtained via challenge.
ML with 1 button is not excusable either.
 
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apple8404

Duke Fishron
I must disagree on that one
I think all the Minecarts should be nerfed slightly, and Mechanical Cart should be nerfed by a lot.
72 mph is WAY too much for vanity minecarts
Mechanical cart should have this value in the best case scenario
72 MPH is almost enough to cheese ML and Daytime EoL. Making these obtainable Pre-HM? Just no.

Current Mech Cart outruns enraged Fishron and ALL ML attacks, including the deathray.

Other opinion is to nerf them all only during bossfights, which is more in line with upcoming patch
i feel like nerfing the mech cart is both a justified choice and a decent loss simultaniously.

on one hand, the cheese potential is very powerful. you are completely correct there, and for that reason, a nerf is totally validated. it's strength during boss fights with the right setup is simply, nutty.

on the other hand, the cheese only matters if you want to use it, and the quality of life increase from it's high travel speed is incredible once you have a minecart rail setup.
other people abusing the cheese doesn't really impact your play experience, and if you don't like the cheese, you have the ability to just... not use it.

i'm very conflicted on if i agree with the idea of nerfing the mechanical cart for these reasons. but, i would like to see vanity carts become more usable in expert/master mode, so i guess a mech cart nerf would contribute to that since mech wouldn't be as overbearingly strong as it is now. i'm fine with whatever comes of this.
 

NeoPhantom

Skeletron Prime
Minecart buffs: mostly thinking along the lines of roller coasters and adventure maps.

Desert Minecart: + 1~3 DEF from standstill to max speed.

Bee Minecart: slowfall (so it kinda glides farther when it reaches the end of a rail)

Ladybug Minecart: +1 DEF, increase luck by 2 while riding.

Sunflower Minecart: provides Sunflower buff while riding (reduce enemy spawn mostly as the speed boost is irrelevant to minecarts)

Beetle Minecart: +3~10 DEF from standstill to max Speed, reduced max speed (66MSpd > 51) and acceleration (12mph/s > 5) (more DEF than mechanical, but less speed and no lasers)

The Durchman: if ran into a water surface, it will ride on the surface as if it were a rail. (Aka waterwalking minecart)

Mechanical Minecart: lower max speed a bit (102MSpd > 90). Slow acceleration a bit (31mph/s > 25). Loses acceleration when changing direction even when doing so by following rails.

Coffin Minecart: it becomes a Graveyard Biome while inside (visual only or counts as 5 tombs when riding, so only the visual effect but no graveyard enemies) (count could increase with minecart speed)

Steampunk Minecart: very slow acceleration, insane maximum speed (for traveling, not combat) (125 MSpd, 5mph/s) Loses all acceleration on changing directions even with rails)



No change:

Wooden Minecart

Demonic Minecart

Shroom Minecart

Digging Molecart

Meowmere Minecart



Unknown:

Pigron Minecart (shoots flamethrower forwards?)

Party Wagon (increased jump height or double jump?)



Either change or leave as is:

Amethyst/Topaz Minecart: +1 DEF, max speed (66MSpd > 70)

Saphire/Emerald Minecart: +1 DEF, max speed (66MSpd > 75)

Ruby/Diamond Minecart: +1~2 DEF, max speed (66MSpd > 70)

Amber Minecart: +1~2 DEF, max speed (66MSpd > 75
 
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GoldenTerrabyte

Empress of Light
This should work well, but adjusting AIs of most bosses is impossible for this update.
I don't see any excuses for such blatant boss abusing, especially given that 70 mph is more than enough for quick travelling.
So nerf is needed.
But compomise exists: cutting their speed only during bossfights.

Even 30% slower travelling (while, again, 70 instead of 102 Mph is enough, especially given that combo of conches, teleporters and pylons exists) is a lame excuse for justifinig easy post-Plant Terraprisma, which demolishes the last third of the game progression. It must be obtained via challenge.
ML with 1 button is not excusable either.
As long as it's only during boss fights, I'm fine with it. Outside of boss fights, I think it should remain untouched.
 

CellarDoor96

Terrarian
This should work well, but adjusting AIs of most bosses is impossible for this update.
I don't see any excuses for such blatant boss abusing, especially given that 70 mph is more than enough for quick travelling.
So nerf is needed.
But compomise exists: cutting their speed only during bossfights.

Even 30% slower travelling (while, again, 70 instead of 102 Mph is enough, especially given that combo of conches, teleporters and pylons exists) is a lame excuse for justifinig easy post-Plant Terraprisma, which demolishes the last third of the game progression. It must be obtained via challenge.
ML with 1 button is not excusable either.
Changing their speed during boss fights is bad game design because it's unintuitive from a player standpoint. I also imagine it would be more difficult to implement than even tweaking bosses' AIs because you would be introducing an entirely new variable, whereas a boss's chase speed is just a number that can be easily edited.
 

GoldenTerrabyte

Empress of Light
Changing their speed during boss fights is bad game design because it's unintuitive from a player standpoint. I also imagine it would be more difficult to implement than even tweaking bosses' AIs because you would be introducing an entirely new variable, whereas a boss's chase speed is just a number that can be easily edited.
Then maybe they find another way to nerf it that doesn't impact its regular speed. I just really don't like the idea of getting all of my fun rail setups broken just because some people used the minecart for boss cheesing. I really don't think this last update should harm existing builds.
 

violet & beige

Terrarian
Sharp reply. Truely, I agree with you for the most part. I may have been inaccurate in some of my expression. It's hard for me to express exactly what I thought :( I can only do my best.

Relying on the whip's feature, minions which can lock on enemies for high-speed attacks are highly effective, while other summoning weapons seem no longer important. The whip's feature narrows summoner's options somewhat. I want to see more diversity (Though changing this situation seems pretty hard). Definitely the Obsidian armor will be nerfed, but what to do after that? Shall the playstyle of whipping become universal, or do we need more whip buffing armors (after loosing the obsidian)? Or we just go back to the history.

The fact is, only a few players can use summoner to its full potential, by high techniques, and summoner is still not fun for most players. Whip-stacking seems to be a flaw, technically. I tried it a few times, then it me me feel like I'm taking advantage of bugs. I don't think it should be preserved (Though it created some "interaction" between whips somehow, it's just speed gain, not others). Some whips designed to have special effects, some designed to gain speed, they are two ways of raising DPS. If we do need whip speed, we can get it from equipments.

Quite a few post-Plantera summon weapons have been ignored. You can call them useless, cuz mostly we just go from Sanguine Staff to Stardust staffs. This makes the summoner process monotonous. I heard from some players that Deadly Sphere Staff & Raven Staff need a boost, which I mostly agree with, amd minions that don't work well with whips may also need to be improved, though it's not known whether simply adding stats will work.

Anyway, there are issues, and I'm not sure where's the focus. It's not easy to suggest good improvements from what I konw now. I'd like to see suggestions from deep-experienced players.
This is wildly inaccurate.

Attack speed for whip DPS is only one of the reasons to whip stack, and it rarely is the MAIN reason. Whip stacking is most often used to stack Summon Tag damage to make the minions themselves more powerful. Some minions like Blade Staff relies mostly if not entirely on cooperation/synergy with Whips to deliver competitive DPS compared to other options. Even the Firecracker's damage output depends entirely on the minion's base damage. And hell, the reason people whip stack Firecracker with Durendal for speed is not for Firecracker's own DPS, but to proc the 2.75x tag effect much more often, which again happens from the cooperation with the minion you're using.

Morning Star and Cool Whip are example of whips have weak or zero synergy with minions, and they just so happen to be the two most unviable whips alongside the starter Leather Whip. Hell, even Dark Harvest, a semi-valid example you could have used but didn't, has the Dark Energy effect being useful in a handful of situation when coupled with fast attacking minions.

The reason Summoner in general easily achieves high DPS is exactly because of the minion-whip synergy being very effective. Use Obsidian armor without minions and your damage output will drop significantly in Pre-Harmode, and take a nosedive in Hardmode. Use Sanguine Staff with a glass cannon Spider Armor set with no whips or other weapons, and your DPS will still be mediocre at best.


Summoner even without Obsidian armor is strong enough at it is and does not need major buffs like this to its Hardmode armors. Hallowed Armor Summoner is already one of the best armor sets in the whole game including for "Mixed" playstyles.
 

Dr. Flavin

Skeletron
Wow! I didn't know this was going on! I suppose I'll throw my hat into the ring as well!
These changes I'm suggesting are really only rough estimates, I'm really just throwing numbers here. I've also included things that are mostly just for fun, cause why not?
Just buffs here because everyone's already said pretty much everything needing a nerf.

Pre-Hardmode Weapons:


Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 12 to 17

- I really don't know why this weapon is so weak, even if you get this one in two hundred fifty drop right at the start of the game it'll soon be outclassed.
The Bat Bat is dropped by the same enemy at the same chance and is significantly better. And the Bat Bat isn't even that good either!

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 10 to 26
Increase use time from 16 to 27
Increase Knockback from 0 to 4

- This might be one of the weakest weapons in the entire game, particularly from a game progression stand point,
by the time you can even purchase the thing you already have a better weapon, because to get the Arms Dealer you need a gun, and every gun in the game is better than the flintlock!
It's comical how bad it is at the point you can get it. Absolutely Comical.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 13 to 18
Increase velocity significantly

Ice Boomerang:
Increase damage and velocity
Now inflicts frostburn

Thorn Chakram:
Increase damage and velocity
Now inflicts poison

Shroomerang, Etc.:
Damage and velocity, they need it

Flamarang,:
Increase damage from 32 to 45, This might still be too little
Increase velocity significantly
Give it autofire too since it's the last pre-hardmode boomerang and I don't see why not

- Boomerangs are one of the most undertuned subclasses right now, most only hit one enemy and can't pierce, they are extremely punishing if missed, they are outclassed in damage in close range by swords, and long range by yoyos and flails. I mean, the Sunfury inflicts twice the damage of the Flamarang, pierces, and can hit twice, Why would you ever need the Flamarang? The only boomerangs that aren't underpowered right now are probably the Sergeant United Shield and the Mechanic's wrench, possessed hatchet too. Sorta.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 25 to 35
Remove or reduce Invincibility frames from projectile to prevent it from clipping through enemies when fired at close range

- The harpoon has always been a strange and extremely punishing weapon, while it's DPS is decent at point blank range, the fact it phases through foes when used at such ranges forcing you to wait for it's long return time makes the thing more trouble than it's worth. Which is a shame, because it's a unique weapon that's just... really undertuned.

Just for fun Change(s):
Now has autofire
That's it
Really, don't need to do nothin' else, you could I guess if ya want, make it light bullets on fire or increase the use time or somethin' I don't know man I can't stop you

- Honestly the phoenix blaster is fine, it just suffers from a high use rate with no autofire meaning you have to spam click it a lot, which gets tiring. In my opinion, at least.

Just For Fun Change(s):
Now fires six bullets in quick succession similar to the clockwork assault rifle
Now a post boss weapon instead of post shadow orb/crimson heart
Definitely a use speed and accuracy nerf to compensate

- This one is totally just a for fun idea that I think would be cool, the clockwork assault rifle is really neat and I wish there were more weapons like it. I just think this would be awesome, to have it be like you're fanning the hammer on the thing like a gunslinger in an old spaghetti western! This is probably just the revolver fan in me talking but hey, I can dream, right?

Hardmode Weapons:


Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 32 to 34
Increase Velocity from 16 to 20

- Crystal storm is an often forgotten weapon, not without reason either, it's easily the worst of the three craftable books. The crystal shards lose speed so fast they have almost no range, the damage is good, but not enough to warrant the risk using it entails.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 35 to 50
Now inflicts hellfire instead of on fire

Elf Melter:

Suggested Change(s):

Increase damage from 60 to 100
Now inflicts hellfire instead of on fire

- It's no secret that the flamethrowers have been living in the shadow of their competitors since they came out, they lack the damage output to compensate for the range they lose over other options. They're not even the best at crowd control because of the various ammo types regular guns have. It's rather sad...

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 31 to 40
Increase knockback from 0 to 0.1
Decrease mana cost from 10 to 8
Increase max enemies pierced from 3 to 4

- Plantera's worst drop, easily. The damage is bad, with armor penetration barely helping, no knockback and on top of that it has the audacity to drain my mana that fast? No way, Wasp Gun.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 44 to 50
Increase velocity from 10 to 13
Increase max enemies pierced from 2 to 4

- While not bad per say, the candy corn rifle is rendered obsolete by the stake launcher, which is also found in the pumpkin moon, and is restricted neither by gravity nor number of enemies pierced, with superior damage to boot.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 65 to 80
Increase velocity from 7 to 9
Increase blast radius of explosive Jack 'O Lanterns

- The Jack 'O Lantern Launcher is a mediocre explosive weapon held back by it's ammo. With middling damage, as well as poor range due to low velocity projectiles, it just doesn't really have a huge amount going for it. At least ammo is cheap.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 45 to 53

- The Rocket Launcher feels like it's trying to be the single target specialist of the explosives sub class but it just isn't quite there. Just a little bump should do it

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 67 to 71

- In a pretty similar situation to the Rocket Launcher, it's almost there. But just not quite.

Suggested Change(s):
Increase damage from 85 to 95

- Yet another explosive weapon that's a little lacking in damage for it's tier, moving on.

Just For Fun Change(s):
Now fires six bullets in quick succession similar to the clockwork assault rifle
Definitely gonna need a damage and use speed and accuracy nerf hoo boy

- Same Idea as the Revolver, I dunno, It's not a bad weapon by any means but it's a low use time gun with no autofire so nobody uses it, I think this would definitely be cool. Probably not gonna happen due to time constraints though.


Armor Changes:

Suggested Change(s):
Set bonus now also gives a 50% increase in whip range

- Tiki Armor is in a weird spot, It has neither the offense of spooky armor nor the defense of hallowed, this combined with no unique benefits makes Tiki Armor pretty not good. I Saw someone suggest that Tiki armor gets some of the whip boosting abilities from obsidian armor, that sounds like a great idea, so I'd thought I would suggest that as well. Look at me, stealing ideas from others eh?

Misc Changes that probably won't happen:

Suggested Change(s):
The Traveling Merchant is now guaranteed to have at least one Random weapon or non-cosmetic accessory

- We've all been there, The Traveling Merchant shows up. "Oh boy! what'll it be this time!?" Pretending it's not gonna be the same old dynasty wood, team colored blocks, and duplicate information accessories. The Traveling Merchant weapons are so cool, I just wish I got to use them more.

No seriously:
Why?
100 mini nukes per shroomite bar is pretty harsh for some explosive radius and a damage upgrade of ten
Cluster rocket 1s are 7.5 silver, like 75 gold for a stack!
Dry rockets are fifty silver! W H A T

Alright I think that's enough for now.

Good lord this took forever to type...
 

Shyguymask

Terrarian
Relying on the whip's feature, minions which can lock on enemies for high-speed attacks are highly effective, while other summoning weapons seem no longer important.
If you mean only Sentries this is true, but that has little to nothing to do with whips at all. "other summoning weapons" are minions & whips and most of them are fine and great to use, so I don't understand. When it comes to unviable minions, this is also not a problem with whips, simply themselves being unviable.
The whip's feature narrows summoner's options somewhat.
The overwhelmingly opposite is true though. Summoner "gameplay" in 1.3 was either pretending to play the class by actually playing Mage/Ranger in disguise while minions did little to absolutely nothing in boss fights, or desperately flinging yourself close to bosses while praying the minions do something. It really boils down to that.

In 1.4, Pre-Mech alone has either Obsidian/Cracker/Sanguine which is a relatively "high range" glass cannon build, or Spider/Cooler SnapTap/Blade which requires mastery of whips stacking and sticking closer to bosses, but has higher survivability if going full Warding (damage percentages bonuses don't affect Blade staff builds nearly as much).

What about Wall of Flesh? Obsidian SnapTap for glass cannon WoF shredder, or the defensive Bee Armor strategy with a mix of Frogs & Imps boosted by the Sharpening Station interaction bug.

Summoner actually has a lot of options as far as playstyles goes, and I mean actual playstyles. Not just using a different weapon or armor set with a very similar playstyle. The way you approach boss fights as a whole is wildly different with varying Summoner builds.

The whips add a ton of options.

Shall the playstyle of whipping become universal, or do we need more whip buffing armors (after loosing the obsidian)?
Almost every optimized & efficient Summoner builds uses whips. But I'd love to have Tiki armor obtain Whip bonuses. Perhaps current Obsidian armor with higher defense?
The fact is, only a few players can use summoner to its full potential, by high techniques, and summoner is still not fun for most players. Whip-stacking seems to be a flaw, technically. I tried it a few times, then it me me feel like I'm taking advantage of bugs.
In a way you could say the same thing about Wavedashing in Super Smash Bros. Fact is, an option requiring a higher skill ceilling to max out its potential is not a bad thing at all, and it's actually a good thing because it adds depth to games if anything. Whip Stacking is not even remotely required to play Summoner let alone efficiently kill bosses with it. Fun is also subjective. That said, how many people realistically played "Pure Summoner" in 1.3, let alone for a "casual" playthrough and not intended for a challenge, because playing 1.3 pure summoner was by itself a major handicap-like challenge?
Quite a few post-Plantera summon weapons have been ignored. You can call them useless, cuz mostly we just go from Sanguine Staff to Stardust staffs. This makes the summoner process monotonous.
This is again not about whips nor should whips be blamed for some minions simply being trash by themselves. Also, Raven Staff and Desert Tiger are plenty viable. Blade also exists.
Some whips designed to have special effects, some designed to gain speed, they are two ways of raising DPS. If we do need whip speed, we can get it from equipments.
This game does not need & can no longer handle adding and balancing "+35% melee speed" accessories and similar for a whip balance overhaul.

amd minions that don't work well with whips may also need to be improved, though it's not known whether simply adding stats will work.
There is essentially no minion in the game at all that doesn't significantly benefit from whips. The minions that appear to not work well with whips are simply very weak and unviable by themselves, as I keep saying.
 
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violet & beige

Terrarian
Here is a list of my suggestions:

1. Reduce enemy spwan during the Empress of Light combat
Compared to other bosses, enemies spawned more often during the Empress of Light combat. Is that my misconception? Seeing enemies wandering around when fighting against the Empress of Light at daytime is the most terrible thing. There should be less spawn.

Besides, if you can, disable enemy spawn during the Moon Lord combat. Although that hasn't changed much over a long period of time, I'm still trying to put it forward, if this is really the last chance of balance adjustments.

2. Separately count projectiles from the Empress of Light
Is that possible?

3. Duke Fishron become immune when get off the ocean area
Is that possible? This request seems to have been around for quite some time.

4. Improve desert loots
Compared to the difficulty of the area, the rewards it offered are too weak, it makes underground desert not worth challenging.
- Sandstorm in a Bottle / Flying Carpet: Add in sandstone chest & oasis crate's loot pool. ** Very important!! **

- Storm Spear: dmg 12/15 --> 18/21
Buffing it to the same level as Starfury will be okey. The melee barely has options in pre-hardmode.

- Thunder Zapper: dmg 12 --> 18.
I love this pre-boss high-frequency staff, but the damage is rather low, making it a torture to use it in master mode. It should be more powerful than other pre-boss magic weapons, considering how difficut to obtain it. Comparable to Diamond Staff at least. Thunder Zapper gives fast firing speed, which makes it effective against fast moving targets. On the other hand, Diamond Staff gives piercing abilities, which is more powerful against crowds.

- Scarab bomb's recipe: require just desert fossil, not sturdy fossil. Scarab bomb is useful, but way too expensive to craft now.

5, Yoyo Glove sell in pre-Hardmode, after beaten Skeletron.
To give the melee more options to fight against the Wall of flesh. Since Yoyo is not very outstanding at any time, It might give it a chance to show.

6, Do not let the nurse raise prices after Hardmode
As you beaten the bosses, the nurse becomes more and more unaffordable. Besides, I agree with that the nurse cost needs to be temporary raised during boss fights.

7. Buffing for Early-Hardmode magic weapons:
The mage is still struggling in early Hardmode, they do need enhancement at that stage. Crystal Serpent seems to be the most useful one in those few choices for a long time, and as far as I know, some weapons can still be tweaked to their full potential.

- Frost Staff: mana cost 12 --> 9. Fast shooting velocity and piercing, classic but effective attacking mode. It will be a good choice fighting against The Twins, like an unpgraded version of the Diamond Staff in Hardmode. Its current performance is rather poor, mainly due to mana cost.

- Crystal Storm: velocity 16 --> 24, increasing firing range will be good.

- Sky Fracture: mana cost 17 --> 14. Sky Fracture had been nerfed, that's frustrating, and I still don't know why. It's not considered to be overpowered even with a mana cost of 14. Is the mage supposed to be that weak? (Though withdraw seems unlikely. Maybe I'm just complaining)

- Poison Staff: mana cost 22 --> 18

- Venom Staff: mana cost 25 --> 22. Poison Staff and its upgraded version look cool, while their high mana cost keeps players away from them. The most powerful magic weapon pre-Plantera seems to be the Rainbow Rod, that one is good for crowd control, and needs some mouse control to effectively damage isolated target. While Venom Staff is suitable for large targets. They focus on different aspects. I think Venom Staff would be a good alternative to the Rainbow rod, It shouldn't be left too far behind. In fact, when mana cost is raised, the DPS loss is staggering, due to the mana regeneration mechanism and potential Mana Sickness. As a result, the Venom Staff may not perform even as well as Crystal Serpent in some cases. I'm not saying this to suggest that Crystal Serpent is OP, It is a good representative to evaluate magic weapons. Not every magic weapon needs to be as good as Crystal Serpent, but not be too bad either.

I love playing as mage and had a series of different playthrogh. Early-Hardmode mage needs enhancement, I'm sure with that. If this little flaw is perfected, I dare say the mage is close to perfection in every respect.

8, Buffing for summoning staffs:
If the obsidian armor been nerfed, the Blade Staff and Sanguine's advantage will decline. At the same time, a bunch of weapons need buffing:

- Pygmy Staff: dmg 34 --> 45

- Raven Staff: dmg 55 --> 60

- Deadly Sphere Staff: dmg 50 --> 60

- Xeno Staff: dmg 36 --> 42

9, Buffing for whips:
- Spinal Tap gives debuff: Confused
33% chance to cause an enemy confused on hit. Considering summoner's poor knockback, crowds of enemies are still tricky to deal with. This may allow summoner escape from besiege, and make Spinal Tap an auxiliary weapon using for a long term. ** Just an idea for whips, it dosen't have to be Spinal Tap. **

- Cool Whip: gives a summon tag bonus damage by 5 or higher.

- Morning Star: summon tag damage increase to 15 or higher.

10, Changes for armors:
- [Nerf] Obsidian armor: whip range 50% --> 25%, melee speed 35% --> 12%

- [Adjust] Forbidden armor: Though I know it's a counterpart to the Frost armor, still I want to say, no magician would choose this, let it be all for the summoner, as an upgraded version for the Obsidian armor. (They look really similar!)
Forbidden Mask: +25% melee speed
Forbidden Robes: +40% whip range, +1 minion slot
Forbidden Treads: +1 minion slot
Set bonus: in adiition to summon acient storm skill, extra bonus +33% minion dmg
As compensation for nerfing the obsidian armor, it might calm the anger of players? The stats may still be too high as it's stage, I'm not really sure. Dispersing bonuses across individual pieces of armor may create interesting mash-ups, I'd like to see.

- [Adjust] Shinobi Infiltrator armor: As the ultimate whip-buffing armor.
Shinobi Infiltrator's Helmet: 8 def, +20% minion dmg, +2 sentries slot
Shinobi Infiltrator's Torso: 16 def, +20% minion dmg, +35% melee speed
Shinobi Infiltrator's Pants: 12 def, +20% minion dmg, +50% whip range, +30% movement speed


- [Buff] Spider armor: gives a set bonus of +22% minion dmg.

- [Buff] Tiki armor: gives a set bonus of +3 minion slot. Huge-crowd strategy will work!

- [Buff] Meteor armor: increase armor def to 19 ( +6, +7, +6 ). Since it was moved to post-EOW/BOC, It should have same def as others in the same period. A defence of 16 is totally unconvincing.

**Additional information**
I saw people maight think my suggestion is arbitrary. Indeed, these are just half-baked proposals. The purpose is to find a way to move the Obsidian armor (or just say the similar whip bonuses) to early-Hardmode, mid-Hardmode or later.

Thanks for Leinfors and all the developers' great effort! Hope these suggestions will help! :pinky:
 
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MomoThePony

Retinazer
Here are some advices from the Chinese community:
1.Nerf Obsidian Armor and give other summon armors whip bonus.
2.Disable or lower the spawn rate of regular enemies during boss fights.
3.Nerf Magiluminescence or move it to endgame.
4.Slightly nerf the Winged Slime Mount.
5.Remake Nettle Burst, Leaf Blower, Wasp Gun, Heat Ray and Golem Fist so that they can be stronger, or at least buff them.
6.Remake enraged Duke Fishron AI to make it more aggressive and hazardous when out of the sea.

And if you are going to nerf Hollow Armor, plzzzzzzzzzzzz don't do it.

I'll edit this post if more suggestions come up.
 
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