Marney
Empress of Light
Hmm, true, but it could be 0.5 or 0.2 - that's just balancing vs Warding.
Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Leinfors
- Start date
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qwerty3.14
Terrarian
I think the berserker's glove is fine, it's obtainable earlier, and if you're using a whip you still get the melee speed and autofire bonus and since it is a summon weapon it doesn't benifit from the mech gloves damage anyway.-Berserker's Glove: You're making me choose between a bit of defense and a whopping 12% more damage. While my proposed buff to the Flesh Knuckles would make the choice a biiiiit more of, well, a choice, the Mechanical Glove is still ultimately the better option. My proposal was to have the Berserker's Glove made with the Mechanical Glove instead of the Power Glove, but that would require the Fire Gauntlet to actually be remotely worth using over that new version of the Berserker's Glove.
.[/SPOILER]
slendyproject
Terrarian
Im sure the balance team can work this out but there is no reason for summoner to not be viable early game when every other class is. Maybe make it +0.5 summon capacity. That way its not worth it for other classes, but that goes back to being inconsistant to get just like everything already is for summoner.
Its pretty funny that until queen bee summoner gets the same amount of summons as everyone else. Melee doesnt get the long range potential of ranged and mage yet it gets the same amount of summons as a summoner?
I hoped for summoner to really become a thing with this update, but until queen bee it has 2 whips and the bird staff (that could not even spawn if unlucky). Compare this to everyone else and its obvious that summoner either needs more items that can be consistently aquired or more summoning power or any kind of proper early game progression.
Either way I think the first step is to cut the base summon capacity to zero. Everyone getting a summon is a design choice from the days when summoner wasnt a thing yet. If it is an actual class it needs to have its main strength not be leeched off by the other classes even if it only happens in prehardmode.
Dapling
Duke Fishron
Actually, they give you an infinite source of bait while standing on forest/jungle grass (which is the only way to consistently get Buggy when you need him), but it's still an extremely weird combination that probably isn't what was needed.Fairy/Flower Boots: I... don't understand why you would want to make this. The Flower Boots are completely cosmetic, and the Spectre Boots have another tinker that actually grants benefits. Perhaps if the wearer was healed a tiny amount for every flower they grew, it would be an interesting option.
Yeah, I knew that, but you could just do that with the Flower Boots by themselves.
Oh, I didn't know whips were affected. That actually makes it a pretty good item for those, then, huh?
Marney
Empress of Light
Dapling
Duke Fishron
That was not needed. They should have just made flares not break grass. Why would they add it to the jungle crate's loot pool then immediately make it useless?
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Magi∆
Skeletron Prime
they do. in journey, normal, and i think master mode. NOT in expert, but for ur info, skeletron can drop something called chippy's couch.
Marney
Empress of Light
I'll admit it's mystifying. It's not like good bait is all that difficult to gather, anyway. Enchanted Nightcrawlers are trivial to farm, and there's way less RNG involved there than in finding or fishing up Flower Boots.
DestroyerOfTheDestroyer
The Destroyer
*dusts massive pile of dust off of inactive-as-hell self*
Terraria 1.4 was a long-awaited update, and it brought some incredible changes. So many new items and worldgen improvements, as well as events and bosses helped to round off the Terraria experience and finish things off with a bang. That being said, there are a few glaring issues that range from irritating to so terrible that I'm shocked they came from such a beloved development team.
Firstly, the nerfing of bombs' ability to mine meteorite and the well-trodden discussion about the Speedrunner's Favorite Fish (tm). I'm not actually vehemently opposed to these on their own, actually. The argument still exists that it allows for people to choose their own playstyle, but on its own, it isn't too onerous of an imposition on the player. The same is even more true of the crate exploit fix, where even less of a justification for keeping it in holds. The more serious issues come in when you look at the other change they came with.
Torch luck. Freaking torch luck. Now, normally, important game mechanics are clearly laid out for a person, and luck is a crucially important stat. Not only does it affect droprates, but it affects damage rolls as well! In a game with so much of a focus on grinding and combat, you would expect a mechanic that affects both to be clearly communicated to the player, and this can be done in two ways -- explicitly or implicitly. Explicit communication is straight up telling the player, "This is a thing, this is what it does, this is how it works". Implicit communication is something more subtle -- level designs guide you to try out a new mechanic immediately after you gain access to it to show you the ropes of how it functions, or common game design tropes are reused to give you implicit knowledge of a mechanic through cultural osmosis (barrels imply explosives, glowing spots are weak spots, etc). Torch luck fails to do either -- while the torch-luck mechanic is present from the moment a world is started, the only thing implying the existence of it in an obvious way are the luck potion and the wizard, and even then, they don't tell you that TORCHES of all things impact it. As for implicit communication, torches are not obviously connected to the idea of luck at all. Tying correct lighting-fixture usage to good or bad fortune is a massive logical leap, and even if you're into feng shui, you aren't going to expect it to be a thing in Terraria. Even more bafflingly, things like Lucky Coins, Lucky Horseshoes, and the Lucky modifier, things you WOULD expect to impact the mechanic (assuming you knew it existed) don't do anything at all.
This would be bad enough if it was still hard to unknowingly screw up, or if the penalties for screwing up weren't so steep. However, it's so easy to ruin your luck that most worlds from older versions might as well be ancient indian burial grounds located underneath a ladder with how many wrong torches they have placed. Regular torches -- the most common item used by earlygame (or even midgame) spelunkers have no positive impact on luck, and a steep negative one in a large number of biomes. But hey, at least we can stack these broken mirrors we call torches to 999 now. I can't for the life of me fathom how the same people who developed such an incredible and beloved game implemented a mechanic that so flagrantly and egregiously violates every good game design practice that could possibly be relevant. This isn't me going full "entitled gamer rage", or insulting the devs -- quite the opposite, in fact. This is me looking on with shock and confusion as a Nobel laureate with several celebrated mathematical proofs on their resume spends an hour calculating the tip at Red Lobster and comes out with a result greater than the value of all the matter in the universe in Venezuelan Bolivars. It was obviously effortful, obviously considered, and obviously took a lot of skill to implement, but more to the point, it was obviously wrong in a way we wouldn't expect from someone of that caliber of skill. I have no doubt they'll fix it (after all, they've proven beyond all doubt that they're capable of excellence), but I have no clue how it managed to happen.
All in all, the general feeling I get from the new mechanics taken as a whole is "you are playing our sandbox game wrong, give me the controller". Removing skips and creating NPC preferences aren't on their own indicative of ill-will towards people trying to play the game their own way, but pairing that with a secret, unspoken mechanic that lengthens grinds and whittles away your DPS indicates a strong tendency to push people into playing and even building/exploring in a certain way, which is antithetical to what Terraria is about.
Terraria 1.4 was a long-awaited update, and it brought some incredible changes. So many new items and worldgen improvements, as well as events and bosses helped to round off the Terraria experience and finish things off with a bang. That being said, there are a few glaring issues that range from irritating to so terrible that I'm shocked they came from such a beloved development team.
Firstly, the nerfing of bombs' ability to mine meteorite and the well-trodden discussion about the Speedrunner's Favorite Fish (tm). I'm not actually vehemently opposed to these on their own, actually. The argument still exists that it allows for people to choose their own playstyle, but on its own, it isn't too onerous of an imposition on the player. The same is even more true of the crate exploit fix, where even less of a justification for keeping it in holds. The more serious issues come in when you look at the other change they came with.
Torch luck. Freaking torch luck. Now, normally, important game mechanics are clearly laid out for a person, and luck is a crucially important stat. Not only does it affect droprates, but it affects damage rolls as well! In a game with so much of a focus on grinding and combat, you would expect a mechanic that affects both to be clearly communicated to the player, and this can be done in two ways -- explicitly or implicitly. Explicit communication is straight up telling the player, "This is a thing, this is what it does, this is how it works". Implicit communication is something more subtle -- level designs guide you to try out a new mechanic immediately after you gain access to it to show you the ropes of how it functions, or common game design tropes are reused to give you implicit knowledge of a mechanic through cultural osmosis (barrels imply explosives, glowing spots are weak spots, etc). Torch luck fails to do either -- while the torch-luck mechanic is present from the moment a world is started, the only thing implying the existence of it in an obvious way are the luck potion and the wizard, and even then, they don't tell you that TORCHES of all things impact it. As for implicit communication, torches are not obviously connected to the idea of luck at all. Tying correct lighting-fixture usage to good or bad fortune is a massive logical leap, and even if you're into feng shui, you aren't going to expect it to be a thing in Terraria. Even more bafflingly, things like Lucky Coins, Lucky Horseshoes, and the Lucky modifier, things you WOULD expect to impact the mechanic (assuming you knew it existed) don't do anything at all.
This would be bad enough if it was still hard to unknowingly screw up, or if the penalties for screwing up weren't so steep. However, it's so easy to ruin your luck that most worlds from older versions might as well be ancient indian burial grounds located underneath a ladder with how many wrong torches they have placed. Regular torches -- the most common item used by earlygame (or even midgame) spelunkers have no positive impact on luck, and a steep negative one in a large number of biomes. But hey, at least we can stack these broken mirrors we call torches to 999 now. I can't for the life of me fathom how the same people who developed such an incredible and beloved game implemented a mechanic that so flagrantly and egregiously violates every good game design practice that could possibly be relevant. This isn't me going full "entitled gamer rage", or insulting the devs -- quite the opposite, in fact. This is me looking on with shock and confusion as a Nobel laureate with several celebrated mathematical proofs on their resume spends an hour calculating the tip at Red Lobster and comes out with a result greater than the value of all the matter in the universe in Venezuelan Bolivars. It was obviously effortful, obviously considered, and obviously took a lot of skill to implement, but more to the point, it was obviously wrong in a way we wouldn't expect from someone of that caliber of skill. I have no doubt they'll fix it (after all, they've proven beyond all doubt that they're capable of excellence), but I have no clue how it managed to happen.
All in all, the general feeling I get from the new mechanics taken as a whole is "you are playing our sandbox game wrong, give me the controller". Removing skips and creating NPC preferences aren't on their own indicative of ill-will towards people trying to play the game their own way, but pairing that with a secret, unspoken mechanic that lengthens grinds and whittles away your DPS indicates a strong tendency to push people into playing and even building/exploring in a certain way, which is antithetical to what Terraria is about.
Blue_M4ge🌳
Moon Lord
Or better yet, just get rid of the Torch luck system entirely, a torches only purpose is to give off light and it should stay that way.
Heroman3003
Retinazer
When I just started playing 1.4 I didn't realize luck was a new thing at all. Why? Because aparently only things that give it in explicit ways are ladybugs (which I caught a bunch of but never killed or released), gnomes (which never spawned for me when I was exploring) and torches, which give absolutely 0 indication of having any impact except for light. I was kinda excited at updates for torch visuals (at least I think they were?) and theming, but now knowing WHY it was done, I wish that didn't happen at all. I like luck as a mechanic and I like idea that it can be artificially impacted. I absolutely despise that it requires use of specific torches of all ungodly things. Also, it should probably be integrated with existing luck-based items (not necessarily lucky horseshoe, but crit chance modifier rework maybe?)
Dapling
Duke Fishron
But how would you reliably boost your mob farm?
I think aligned torches should stay aligned and neutral torches should be, you know... neutral.
Heroman3003
Retinazer
Maybe potentially by using new mechanics and items and not adding hidden mechanic onto existing object that has been in the game for many years with very simple and widely-used purpose without any notice or way to discover it on your own that also carries an extremely severe negative punishment if you do not minmax into it (which you probably will not since you cant even know about it at all in any way unless you go and read about it on the wiki).
Dapling
Duke Fishron
But if only the biome torches did it, then pre-existing worlds wouldn’t get screwed over and only the ice, cursed, and ichor torches would be affected.
I think it would be better if the luck effects were put on campfires instead of torches. Mention luck effects in the buff description and players have a way to know about the effect. There are campfires for every type of torch and campfires are often specifically places when the player wants to farm something, so all players have to do is place the right one.
That way it's much harder for players who are unaware of this to screw themselves royally when farming.
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