Firstly thank you Leinfor for the hard work you and the rest of the team have put into Journey's End. I've really been enjoying this update a lot. Secondly I have a suggestion for the dilemma mentioned a while ago with the Terraspark Boots and the Dunerider Boots. I believe adding the Dunerider Boots to the Frostspark Boots recipe could address every issue. Frostspark Boots already provide extra mobility on ice so adding Dunerider Boots to that recipie as well and then adding the extra sand mobility perk could work in a way that makes sense with the items design. This would avoid the loss of the sand mobility perk, avoid a dead end tinker with Dunerider Boots, and it would then make sense adding the sand mobility to Terraspark Boots as well once the Frostspark Boots would be upgraded. While I say this it would make Frostspark and then Terraspark Boots a little more difficult to get. This might just be me personally but I believe that the extra sand mobility is worth while enough to justify this difficulty change. I really enjoy the Terraspark boots design wise and always wanted something like them for the years and years I have played this game but now the thought of losing the admittedly minor sand mobility perk bugs me a bit. Thank you for reading!
Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Leinfors
- Start date
- Status
Tyro
Steampunker
Even better if the hermes boots worked on grass. I think Leinfor said earlier that tinker paths were out of their purview though. If that wasn't the case I'd love it if the sailfish boots could combine with the water walkers to improve water walking speed
Yeah that would be nice especially since most of the surface world is grass. This is just a random idea but I noticed some people were complaining about Flower Boots so maybe Flower Boots could be added into the Terraspark Boots recipie and then Terraspark Boots could provide a mobility boost with dirt, grass, or even mud. Opps I must have missed the part where that was mentioned. That's a cool idea! If a set of boots that improved water walking speed was a thing it could potentially lead to some unique arena designs especially for bosses like Duke Fishron.Even better if the hermes boots worked on grass. I think Leinfor said earlier that tinker paths were out of their purview though. If that wasn't the case I'd love it if the sailfish boots could combine with the water walkers to improve water walking speed
Yoyo
Terrarian
Just thinking about progression of the summoners weapons. The slime staff seems a bit moot now with only 1+ damage over the Finch Staff and still a whopping 1/10000 drop from regular slimes. Before players would usually go to the effort of grinding a slime farm to get one as it was the only summoner weapon semi available at the start.
Is there anything that could be done to the slime staff to make it more appealing rather than just skipped over now? Maybe it could inflict a slight status effect like Slowness or something? The tooltip could read "I've been slimed!"
Is there anything that could be done to the slime staff to make it more appealing rather than just skipped over now? Maybe it could inflict a slight status effect like Slowness or something? The tooltip could read "I've been slimed!"
Tyro
Steampunker
It should really be a guaranteed drop from King Slime. I like the slow idea.Just thinking about progression of the summoners weapons. The slime staff seems a bit moot now with only 1+ damage over the Finch Staff and still a whopping 1/10000 drop from regular slimes. Before players would usually go to the effort of grinding a slime farm to get one as it was the only summoner weapon semi available at the start.
Is there anything that could be done to the slime staff to make it more appealing rather than just skipped over now? Maybe it could inflict a slight status effect or something? Slowness could be a good effect for it. The tooltip could read "I've been slimed!"
Rocketjay
Terrarian
The Slime Staff overall felt like it did more damage and was more consistent than the Finch Staff.Just thinking about progression of the summoners weapons. The slime staff seems a bit moot now with only 1+ damage over the Finch Staff and still a whopping 1/10000 drop from regular slimes. Before players would usually go to the effort of grinding a slime farm to get one as it was the only summoner weapon semi available at the start.
Is there anything that could be done to the slime staff to make it more appealing rather than just skipped over now? Maybe it could inflict a slight status effect like Slowness or something? The tooltip could read "I've been slimed!"
The FInch by itself is very underwhelming at dealing with enemies, while with the slime, I felt it would keep an enemy at bay by itself.
Last edited:
WatcherCCG
Terrarian
That's the "hilarious" part about the finch. Most of the time it loops behind an enemy and kicks it into you, potentially killing you on Master.
ppowersteef
Paladin
That's already the case.
Baconfry
Terrarian
Tiki armor is in a weird spot right now. It is technically obtainable slightly earlier than Spooky armor, but that slight advantage in availability is not worth dropping 1p 50g for. Offensively, it performs a lot worse.
The previous dynamic between Tiki and Spooky armor was one of defense vs. offense, so I propose adding 1 health/second regeneration to the Tiki Mask and Tiki Shirt.
If that change happens, the Tiki Shirt will still be competing with the Spooky Breastplate on hybrid sets, and probably won't see increased use. Tiki Mask will be best-in-slot for hybrid sets, though not by much. It's nothing too major, but I think this may carve out a small niche for the set.
The previous dynamic between Tiki and Spooky armor was one of defense vs. offense, so I propose adding 1 health/second regeneration to the Tiki Mask and Tiki Shirt.
If that change happens, the Tiki Shirt will still be competing with the Spooky Breastplate on hybrid sets, and probably won't see increased use. Tiki Mask will be best-in-slot for hybrid sets, though not by much. It's nothing too major, but I think this may carve out a small niche for the set.
Mystic
Terrarian
Can we talk about mana sickness? It is so limiting for mages it hurts. While every other class is basically ranged(Yes, including melee. When was the last time you got up close to Plantera with your Terrablade?) mages have to suffer for simply using their magic. I have three ideas I have in mind.
1) Change the mana flower to provide mages with the ability to regenerate mana while casting.
2) Change the mana sickness from decreased magic damage to increased mana usage, thus causing the player to burn through mana potions much quicker, forcing the player to be more careful about mana potions.
3) Just simply cap the damage reduction to 25%. Mages have enough damage reductions to deal with. Pretty much the only class to suffer from damage reductions.
1) Change the mana flower to provide mages with the ability to regenerate mana while casting.
2) Change the mana sickness from decreased magic damage to increased mana usage, thus causing the player to burn through mana potions much quicker, forcing the player to be more careful about mana potions.
3) Just simply cap the damage reduction to 25%. Mages have enough damage reductions to deal with. Pretty much the only class to suffer from damage reductions.
Last edited:
slendyproject
Terrarian
One more random idea i wanted to throw out here regarding summoner. Does anyone find it weird that playing summoner doesnt really encourage using a variety of minions in your team? Usually just summon the strongest dps minion as many times as you can.
What if all the minions would have a buff tied to them that doesnt affect themselves but other minions? So for example finch staff bird could give a movement speed boost to all other non-bird minions on your team (good with meele focused teams). Imp-staff could make other minions attacks burn.
Theres so much design space that could be explored with this. It would enable early game minions to scale into late game because their buffs become more impactful with every additional minion slot. Since theres not a whole lot of summon weapons, giving them more staying power throughout the progression could be really cool.
So if you had a team of completely different minions they would all bring something to the team instead of one or two completely replacing the others in dps. It would feel like building a party.
What if all the minions would have a buff tied to them that doesnt affect themselves but other minions? So for example finch staff bird could give a movement speed boost to all other non-bird minions on your team (good with meele focused teams). Imp-staff could make other minions attacks burn.
Theres so much design space that could be explored with this. It would enable early game minions to scale into late game because their buffs become more impactful with every additional minion slot. Since theres not a whole lot of summon weapons, giving them more staying power throughout the progression could be really cool.
So if you had a team of completely different minions they would all bring something to the team instead of one or two completely replacing the others in dps. It would feel like building a party.
Neutral Effect
Steampunker
Indeed, I must have been reading too fast and misunderstood your words. It's funny, cause the first thing I did when 1.4.0.1 came out was reading through the entire changelog, yet this has somehow slipped my attention... shame on me, considering how much I was hoping for that change.You know the Wing rebalance came in the initial 1.4 patch, right?
I just never released raw stats because Wing stats do not translate nicely to "reader friendly". I do have a tier list I can post in a bit though.
As for the raw stats, I think many of us are capable of figuring something out of these. If you have a bit of time, though, I'd be glad if you could make a quick summary of changes.
MrDarkmagic
Terrarian
I also feel like there should be more summoner armour, especially early game. The summoner class barely excists before queen bee. There should be some kind of armour that atleast boosts summon damage and maybe just 1 extra minion slot. There are also no accesoires before WoF.Just thinking about progression of the summoners weapons. The slime staff seems a bit moot now with only 1+ damage over the Finch Staff and still a whopping 1/10000 drop from regular slimes. Before players would usually go to the effort of grinding a slime farm to get one as it was the only summoner weapon semi available at the start.
Is there anything that could be done to the slime staff to make it more appealing rather than just skipped over now? Maybe it could inflict a slight status effect like Slowness or something? The tooltip could read "I've been slimed!"
yudgefudge
The Destroyer
Here's my two cents:
- Summoner progression is still bad. Soooooo bad. You missed one of the main problems, Pre-Hardmode. When I saw in the changelog "several new summon weapons" I was expecting summons at every progression point, not randomly being scattered, about in prehardmode. Previously, summoner progression was: Reaver Shark -> get those imps -> beat the bee -> bee armor -> WoF. Now, its the same except Reaver Shark is replaced with Finch Staff and fill up your bestiary. Then, you try and beat both the Eye of Cthulhu and the EoW/BoC with your seven damage finch (or if you are patient, eleven damage frog) and sixteen damage whip, then once they're dead, you need to beat QB with this same equipment, except maybe Crimson armor for crimson worlds. Once Queen Bee is defeated, you can go into Hardmode, then you have to farm spiders for a while (I had about 6 poison staffs once I was done) to craft your armor and 24 fang spider staff, then scout out frost golems for that whip. Then, test yourself against the mechs, and then get Optic Staff and hallowed armor. Kill Plantera, spend almost 2 platinum on your only equipment, try, fail, retry, fail, then try again to best the Temple with your paper thin Tiki and your powerless pygmies, then finally, beat the Pumpkin Moon, obtain Spooky armor, beat the Saucer, get Xenoes, and finally beat the Celestial Events and then the moon lord. This is terrible progression. It seems like the team forgot where summoners needed items best? Because you added more HARDMODE items than PRE-HARDMODE ones. Terraprisma, Desert Tiger, Kaleidoscope, and Small Blade of the top off my head. Pre-Hardmode, what do we have? Cute but useless Finch, rare and weak Vampire Frog, waste-your-time-filling-your-Bestiary Leather Whip, terribly useless Hornets, average Snapthorn, okay-at-best Bee armor, and finally good imps. It's honestly absurd how this happened. A good amount of Hardmdoe weapons could have easily been pre-hardmode ones, along with obvious stat changes, like the Cool Whip could've been an ice chest find, or the Desert Tiger could be something sold by the Traveling Merchant or Zoologist, or even simply be crafted from desert materials. I remember holding off continuing my summon playthrough, as I wanted to find out all summon weapons, constantly refreshing the summon weapon's page on the wiki, only to realize that Journey's End added a grand total of 4 pre-hardmode summon weapons. And I was appalled. I was appalled because I thought Journey's End would finally get rid of the idea modded was the only way to play pure summoner. But sadly, it did not.
- Also, I think Meteors should be locked behind EoC, not EoW/BoC. It makes more sense that way so meteor armor is a progression for magic users from the gem robes, before upgrading to jungle armor.
yudgefudge
The Destroyer
^^^^
this post is very important.
DEVS PLEASE ADD THIS OMG.
So I'm not forced to just Stardust Dragon everything
Currently finishing up a multiplayer Expert playthrough of 1.4. Here are my suggestions:
- A few times NPCs died off-screen and it wasn't clear what killed them. It would be much appreciated if NPC death messages could be formatted like player death messages and include the cause of death.
- Likewise, it's somewhat concerning from a lag perspective that NPCs can be attacked off-screen at all. With pylons, NPCs are spread out and that means a larger chunk of the world is "active". If the game is spawning enemies around these NPCs and fully simulating them, I reckon a lot of network packets and CPU cycles are being wasted.
- Queen Slime was great, but I question if the "Gelatinous Pillar" mount is too strong. It's good enough mobility-wise that it makes flight and run-speed accessories appear pointless, especially considering how the mount does not take up an accessory slot itself. It's better than other early-hardcore mounts, wings, and boots, making it out-shine too much content for how early in hardmode it can be acquired. Reducing the flight and movement speed would be ideal.
- The Old One's Army is too grindy and it stinks that you can't buy any armor pre-hardmode.
- Golem is still too easy.
- This is a well-trodden topic, but the biggest issue with meteor gear was the Space Gun. The armor itself was fine to get early (it's not much better than gold or obsidian), as was the Phase Saber, and it was an interesting choice to have available as otherwise Demon/Crimson gear are too obvious. The gun however was too strong. I have a suggestion: Make meteor bars available early again, but lock the gun behind requiring a few Demonite/Crimtane bars to craft.
- I appreciated the increase of Falling Stars as it made the Star Cannon more useful, but it also made MP too easy to max. There's an obvious fix: make Mana Crystals take more stars to craft.
- I died a few times from my own Zappinator. Is the player vulnerable to their own Zappinator projectiles or something? It felt unfair and unnecessary considering the randomness of the gun.
- This is wishful thinking, but I've always hoped for an accessory that reduced the set bonus requirement from 3 of the same armor pieces to 2. I think that would add variety to builds.
- A few times NPCs died off-screen and it wasn't clear what killed them. It would be much appreciated if NPC death messages could be formatted like player death messages and include the cause of death.
- Likewise, it's somewhat concerning from a lag perspective that NPCs can be attacked off-screen at all. With pylons, NPCs are spread out and that means a larger chunk of the world is "active". If the game is spawning enemies around these NPCs and fully simulating them, I reckon a lot of network packets and CPU cycles are being wasted.
- Queen Slime was great, but I question if the "Gelatinous Pillar" mount is too strong. It's good enough mobility-wise that it makes flight and run-speed accessories appear pointless, especially considering how the mount does not take up an accessory slot itself. It's better than other early-hardcore mounts, wings, and boots, making it out-shine too much content for how early in hardmode it can be acquired. Reducing the flight and movement speed would be ideal.
- The Old One's Army is too grindy and it stinks that you can't buy any armor pre-hardmode.
- Golem is still too easy.
- This is a well-trodden topic, but the biggest issue with meteor gear was the Space Gun. The armor itself was fine to get early (it's not much better than gold or obsidian), as was the Phase Saber, and it was an interesting choice to have available as otherwise Demon/Crimson gear are too obvious. The gun however was too strong. I have a suggestion: Make meteor bars available early again, but lock the gun behind requiring a few Demonite/Crimtane bars to craft.
- I appreciated the increase of Falling Stars as it made the Star Cannon more useful, but it also made MP too easy to max. There's an obvious fix: make Mana Crystals take more stars to craft.
- I died a few times from my own Zappinator. Is the player vulnerable to their own Zappinator projectiles or something? It felt unfair and unnecessary considering the randomness of the gun.
- This is wishful thinking, but I've always hoped for an accessory that reduced the set bonus requirement from 3 of the same armor pieces to 2. I think that would add variety to builds.
Last edited:
yudgefudge
The Destroyer
This makes no sense. What it would do is to invalidate having full armor for the rest of the game once its obtained. They are called "set" bonuses for a reason.
Razor_Typhoon
Living Tree
I would prefer it if junk items (seaweed, tin cans and old shoes) had some use in the form of getting decoration items as it adds use to any type of pond.
qwerty3.14
Terrarian
I feel like there is already a 'defensive alternative' to spooky armor in the form of hallowed armor. I think tiki armor should be post mech instead of post plantera to be a slight offensive upgrade to spider. It's literally just an extra minion slot over spider armor.
Unftf
Terrarian
Timers
1/2 and 1/4s timers are way to cheap to get (buy at mechanic) compared to 1s, 3s, 5s timer.
Either sell them all or 1/2 and 1/4 need e.g. Cobalt and Mythril bars.
(With this those bars would be used more than once)
______
(below may need some more testing)
-Golem still weak compared to Plantera (tested only in master mode). Maybe let him spawn some Temple enemies during the fight.
-Staff of the Frost Hydra not that good. Other post-plantera dungeon items got some updates. Frost Hydra left out? All other have some unique ability. Frost hydra just a normal sentry. Maybe let her attack through walls.
1/2 and 1/4s timers are way to cheap to get (buy at mechanic) compared to 1s, 3s, 5s timer.
Either sell them all or 1/2 and 1/4 need e.g. Cobalt and Mythril bars.
(With this those bars would be used more than once)
______
(below may need some more testing)
-Golem still weak compared to Plantera (tested only in master mode). Maybe let him spawn some Temple enemies during the fight.
-Staff of the Frost Hydra not that good. Other post-plantera dungeon items got some updates. Frost Hydra left out? All other have some unique ability. Frost hydra just a normal sentry. Maybe let her attack through walls.
Last edited:
- Status