Journey's End 1.4.4: Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

[zkksch]

Because it DOES perform better than every other Bow/Repeater and Gun until Pre-Plantera. And that "specific field of usage" is literally used for the first FOUR Hardmode Bosses, including Queen Slime.

Deadalus have good damage because its attacks are inconvinent like 90% of your play time. If it will have same damage as other bows, no one will use daedalus. Generally that weapon is balanced, it only turned out that its disadvantages, compensated by a good damage, have almost no impact on boss battles. It's not the first weapons with such properties, not the last.

So you should suggest rework not just a nerf. Like nerf damage but arrows always will reach at least cursor height (like starfury) for example (just example, it's not my suggestion ). If you suggest just a nerf it will add another useless weapon to the list.

Magic Weapon, nothing to do with the Ranger Class

Ehm, you PC explodes if you will use it with ranger armor or what? Did I miss it in patch notes? And as I said before, you can use darts instead.

I also suggested to buff the Magic Quivers themselves

Those quivers with strong buff could affect post-golem archer, who doesn't need a buff (at least in damage) at all.

This was mainly to see how big of a difference there was between the three Magic Quivers and Guns, which is what I wanted to prove in the first place. Even then, the 10 Armor Penetration would only be slightly noticeable against spinning Skeletron Prime with Crystal Bullets and Crystal + Ichor Bullets, tho that's only +5 damage per shot. (And I don't think it is enough to get the Crystal Shards over 1 damage when he's spinning anyways.)

Just checked, without necklesses with ranger emblem + wraith potion (everything menacing) crystal shards never have one damage (smallest was 5), so it's up to +15 damage every shot. Pretty sure it should be enough, but too lazy to check.

 

[ShinyLine]

And yet again I start a new Summoner playthrough to see which details should be improved in general.

First, I would like to suggest a buff to the Toolbelt and Toolbox Accesories:

[1] Toolbelt: Increase Tool Range from 0 to 1.

[2] Toolbox: Increase Block Placement Range and Tool Range both from 1 to 2. Lock it to Hardmode to compensate.



Also, the Fledgling Wings should gain a buff to the 1/40 chance of showing up in Floating Islands and Sky Crates. Maybe just double it to 1/20 in Sky Crates, with (maybe) an even further chance of 1/10 in Floating Island's chests, as they are limited per world. It isn't as strong on its own to be even rarer than the Sandstorm in a Bottle, which has a 1/38 chance in Oasis Crates. If the 1/10 chance in Floating Islands is too high, maybe just give them the same buffed doubled chance of Sky Crates of 1/20.



I don't know how broken this would be, but I think the Panic Necklace should also buff Melee Speed alongside Movement Speed, maybe just +10%. It would give an even higher reason for Melee players to use it, and even Obsidian Armor Summoners. Right now, it isn't that useful to even consider an Accessory Slot for it.

 

[Flubman]

Actually, are there any more transmutation "dead ends" like Balloon Pufferfish -> Shiny Red Balloon? If so, I think they should all be made reversible.

I found some:


Whoopie Cushion -> Gas Trap

Spear -> Trident

Living Wood Wand -> Finch Staff

Corruption Key -> Corruption Chest

Crimson Key -> Crimson Chest

Hallowed Key -> Hallowed Chest

Frozen Key -> Frozen Chest

Jungle Key -> Jungle Chest

Desert Key -> Desert Chest

Zombie Arm -> Whoopie Cushion (Perhaps a solution could be Zombie Arm -> Whoopie Cushion -> Gas Trap -> Zombie Arm?)

 

[ShinyLine]

Whoopie Cushion -> Gas Trap

Perhaps a solution could be Zombie Arm -> Whoopie Cushion -> Gas Trap -> Zombie Arm?)

You can only refill the Gas Traps by throwing them into Shimmer again. The only way for this to be done would be for Gas Traps to be able to fill with something else.

 

[Flubman]

You can only refill the Gas Traps by throwing them into Shimmer again. The only way for this to be done would be for Gas Traps to be able to fill with something else.

I was thinking of Gas Trap -> Zombie Arm when it's full and Used Gas Trap -> Gas Trap when it's empty.

 

[ShinyLine]

I was thinking of Gas Trap -> Zombie Arm when it's full and Used Gas Trap -> Gas Trap when it's empty.

Oh yeah, that should work fine too.

 

[Shyguymask]

I don't know how broken this would be, but I think the Panic Necklace should also buff Melee Speed alongside Movement Speed, maybe just +10%. It would give an even higher reason for Melee players to use it, and even Obsidian Armor Summoners. Right now, it isn't that useful to even consider an Accessory Slot for it.

The Panic Necklace does a great job at what it's supposed to do, giving a big burst of movement speed when damaged. It makes it easier and more effective to retreat and reposition after getting damaged by either a group of enemies or a boss, and it works especially great with jump accessories. It's even useful to make moving around the surface faster if you take fall damage on purpose. Besides, accessories don't have nearly as much competition or opportunity costs in Pre-Hardmode as they do in Hardmode. It doesn't need any changes.

 

[ShinyLine]

The Panic Necklace does a great job at what it's supposed to do, giving a big burst of movement speed when damaged. It makes it easier and more effective to retreat and reposition after getting damaged by either a group of enemies or a boss, and it works especially great with jump accessories. It's even useful to make moving around the surface faster if you take fall damage on purpose. Besides, accessories don't have nearly as much competition or opportunity costs in Pre-Hardmode as they do in Hardmode. It doesn't need any changes.

Yeah, I was going more with the thematic purpose with that one; it makes sense to swing your stuff faster if you have a panic attack.

 

[Leinfors]

Actually, are there any more transmutation "dead ends" like Balloon Pufferfish -> Shiny Red Balloon? If so, I think they should all be made reversible.

Not all Shimmer transmutations are reversible. This is by design and we are not intending to make all of them reversible simply because some are reversible.

 

[apple_pie]

idk if this has been noticed by anyone yet but the sell price of the hive-five is significantly higher (an entire 2 or so gold) than the hornet staff (only 20 silver), which both cost the same amount of beeswax to craft

 

[Leinfors]

idk if this has been noticed by anyone yet but the sell price of the hive-five is significantly higher (an entire 2 or so gold) than the hornet staff (only 20 silver), which both cost the same amount of beeswax to craft

In a couple hours, I’ll take a look at the general values of all of her items and see what is out of line. Will adjust things so it’s more consistent.

 

[HammerHoovy🌳]

The Panic Necklace does a great job at what it's supposed to do, giving a big burst of movement speed when damaged. It makes it easier and more effective to retreat and reposition after getting damaged by either a group of enemies or a boss, and it works especially great with jump accessories. It's even useful to make moving around the surface faster if you take fall damage on purpose. Besides, accessories don't have nearly as much competition or opportunity costs in Pre-Hardmode as they do in Hardmode. It doesn't need any changes.

When you have boots this accessory is pretty much just a waste of an accessory slot. I don't think that the increased acceleration and extra jump accessory speed is worth the slot, you have better accessories available like Magiluminescence and Frog Leg for that. Also, getting hit is usually very bad so these kinds of accessories aren't really that great.

 

[mathbrush]

Speaking of sell values, all of the pirate drops sell for a nice chunk of money, except for the Gold Platforms. I know most platforms aren't sellable, but some are (like team platforms), and the whole theme of the pirates is 'money', so adding a sell price to them would be nice. 1 silver is the going rate for most other platforms, and there are no recipes involving gold platforms to exploit.

 

[ppowersteef]

Speaking of sell values, all of the pirate drops sell for a nice chunk of money, except for the Gold Platforms. I know most platforms aren't sellable, but some are (like team platforms), and the whole theme of the pirates is 'money', so adding a sell price to them would be nice. 1 silver is the going rate for most other platforms, and there are no recipes involving gold platforms to exploit.

I think the only reason why team platforms have a price value is because they're buyable. I don't think they should make other exceptions for the sake of selling them.

 

[Shyguymask]

I don't think that the increased acceleration and extra jump accessory speed is worth the slot

It's 100% worth it. It makes a significant difference and as I just said, there's little opportunity cost or competition when it comes to accessory slots in Pre-HM compared to Hardmode.

you have better accessories available like Magiluminescence and Frog Leg for that.

These are very different mobility accessories, and you can use them together.

Also, getting hit is usually very bad so these kinds of accessories aren't really that great.

On the complete contrary, they are great specifically because getting hit is bad. You can use the movement speed boost to get hit less overall and prevent getting stuck. Defensive accessories as a whole are great because getting hit is bad.

 

[Rocketjay]

I suggest for desert tiger staff to have more agressive ai and damage. When on a flying mount like the witch broom, it's ai becomes really unreliable.

 

[Shyguymask]

I suggest for desert tiger staff to have more agressive ai and damage. When on a flying mount like the witch broom, it's ai becomes really unreliable.

It has plenty of damage already but yeah its AI really need to be looked at when in the middle of the air and on a witch broom. Utterly frustrating how it constantly gets stuck and loses aggro on Empress of Light for seemingly no reason.

 

[ShinyLine]

In the topic of sell values, the Hercules Bettle's reforge cost is higher than the Papyrus Scarab's. As the latter is an upgraded version of it, I think it makes sense to cost more.



This is just pure text consistency; the Water Walking Boots and its upgrades up to the Terraspark Boots all say they allow walking on water, lava and honey. I think it should be more general and just say "on liquids", just to include Shimmer but without a spoiler about it.



I've noticed you can't click on the Eternia Cristal to skip wait times with the Smart Cursor ON. It's quite annoying, specially while playing with a gamepad, as it isn't as precise as a mouse.



I think a nice Set Bonus for the Rain Set (from Raincoat Zombies) would be an increase to the chance of actually raining, similar to killing Ladybugs; maybe both could stack, or just be the exact same so it is easier to code. It would make it worth the grind when farming Waterleafs and specific Rain enemies for their drops, like the Angry Nimbus and Ice Golem in Hardmode. Sometimes I've been waiting up to an hour just to kill an Ice Golem for my Cool Whip because the game refused to rain, lol.



Something I noticed when building my current Plantera arena is that I was using Invisibility Potions for their enemy spawn reduction effect, and it was annoying to lose the buff when getting hurt by random thorny bushes. I think you shouldn't lose the effect to that type of damage, maybe even including the spikes from the Dungeon and Temple, but not normal traps like Dart Traps. Also, I think the duration of that potion should be increased to 4 or even 5 minutes instead of 3, just to make it even more worth it.



Also, I remembered probably my biggest problem as a builder. It's extremely annoying to use the Builder Potion, Toolbelt and Toolbox to place blocks, but because they only increase Block Placement Range and not also Tool Range, you can't mine blocks from the same distance you are able to place them. This is the absolute biggest reason why I suggest a buff to the Toolbelt and Toolbox,

basically:

[1] Builder Potion: Increase Tool Range from 0 to 1. This goes along with my proposed buffs to the Toolbelt and Toolbox Accessories from earlier.

 

[khs8157]

Night's Edge got the deserved nerfs, but I don't think the current direction is the best. NE now has significantly lower DPS(96) than its ingredients, Muramasa(120) and Volcano(105). While NE is still a better weapon overall due to its superior range and coverage, it doesn't feel right that we must 'consume' the better DPS options to make one. I think leaving the damage and use time as it was, but nerfing the secondary projectile (the longer-range one) to deal only 67% of the base damage (on top of pierce count/range nerf) would have been better.

 

[Leinfors]

With 1.4.4.9's release just a few minutes ago, I feel that the balance iteration period of this update is over. As always, perfection is an impossible goal, but there is always room to continue striving for better. However, it will not be in the form of further 1.4.4 hotfixes.

I'll be leaving the thread open for a couple more days just to let any final thoughts settle, and then will close the thread again (I do not know if it will be re-opened for 1.4.5).