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Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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Mental Mouse

Terrarian
One thing I personally would love to see added to the game (and I really hope leinfors sees this) is something to do with purification. I would love to see the player get a special reward from the dryad after purifying the entire world. Something really really cool that would incentivize doing so at least once in a players terraria career. Then at least we could have SOMETHING to do after Moon Lord is defeated. I agree that the endgame of terraria is a bit of a double edged sword on the fact that you do beat the moon lord and get all this amazing loot, but unfortunately have nothing to really use it on.
The thing is, we already have a Clentaminator that sweeps out to past the screen's edge. What might help with complete purification would be detection -- something that would highlight infected blocks even when they're buried in stone.
 

TheWith3r129

Terrarian
Furthermore, whips are a main weapon just like swords, guns, and spell tomes. If you understand how Summoner works, you would know that when you deselect a whip, the tag damage disappears and the Summon no longer targets your desired, well, target. Let's say you're a Warrior. You're going to kill the Eye of Cthulhu with a Blade of Grass from the jungle. Answer me this: if you're a Warrior, would you switch to the Minishark when it enters its second phase? No, you're not, cause you're a Warrior. It's the same with Summoner; you won't switch to a different, non-summon weapons when you're a Summoner.
You’re talking like using anything other than your own class is heresy of the highest degree lmfao. Guys, it’s a video game about a glorified ant farm. Use whatever the hell you want to fight the giant floating eye robots. Who cares? It’s your game. You wanna use nothing but whips while your little minions do whatever they do? Go right ahead. You wanna switch it up to some spells or guns to get more DPS or even just variety? Go right ahead. Want to not even play through the progression at all and just screw around building or whatever? Go right ahead. Terraria allows you to mix and match your armor and weapons for a reason. You can play the game however you want. I personally almost always go melee, but that doesn’t stop me from using some magic or guns every so often. Why? Because it’s fun and helpful. Maybe it’s not so easy trying to deal with the Twins with a big slow metal sword, maybe I’m having trouble getting a shadowflame dagger, but I’ve got plenty of souls and crystals available, maybe I’ll just make a crystal storm. Maybe I’ll make some crystal bullets for that gun that dropped from that enemy. At the end of the day, who gives a damn except me? It’s my game. I can play how I like, and so can you.
Excuse my language, but nobody gives a single flying :red: how you play your game. There is no right or wrong other than “you’re constantly dying, you’re doing something wrong”
Do you want to try to beat the Wall of Flesh with just swords? Be my guest, but just know that there is a challenge. It’d be much easier to bring some form of piercing weapon you can use from a distance while you use those swords on hungries or leeches that get too close for comfort, but it’s still entirely possible to use that big blade of grass or fiery greatsword to get some damage in while not getting too close. Damage is damage, regardless of what you’re wearing.

I hope I didn’t repeat myself too much, but I just wanted to call out the ridiculousness of this whole argument. Basically, you’re all wrong, so shut up and enjoy your game. I would like to leave you with these words from the old trailer for Minecraft:
“No one can tell you what you can or cannot do. There are no rules to follow. This adventure is up to you.”
 

Sia_Later

Terrarian
The thing is, we already have a Clentaminator that sweeps out to past the screen's edge. What might help with complete purification would be detection -- something that would highlight infected blocks even when they're buried in stone.
I think you misunderstood him, he wanted a reward once the world is pure, not a better way to make the world pure
 

Sia_Later

Terrarian
You’re talking like using anything other than your own class is heresy of the highest degree lmfao. Guys, it’s a video game about a glorified ant farm. Use whatever the hell you want to fight the giant floating eye robots. Who cares? It’s your game. You wanna use nothing but whips while your little minions do whatever they do? Go right ahead. You wanna switch it up to some spells or guns to get more DPS or even just variety? Go right ahead. Want to not even play through the progression at all and just screw around building or whatever? Go right ahead. Terraria allows you to mix and match your armor and weapons for a reason. You can play the game however you want. I personally almost always go melee, but that doesn’t stop me from using some magic or guns every so often. Why? Because it’s fun and helpful. Maybe it’s not so easy trying to deal with the Twins with a big slow metal sword, maybe I’m having trouble getting a shadowflame dagger, but I’ve got plenty of souls and crystals available, maybe I’ll just make a crystal storm. Maybe I’ll make some crystal bullets for that gun that dropped from that enemy. At the end of the day, who gives a damn except me? It’s my game. I can play how I like, and so can you.
Excuse my language, but nobody gives a single flying :red: how you play your game. There is no right or wrong other than “you’re constantly dying, you’re doing something wrong”
Do you want to try to beat the Wall of Flesh with just swords? Be my guest, but just know that there is a challenge. It’d be much easier to bring some form of piercing weapon you can use from a distance while you use those swords on hungries or leeches that get too close for comfort, but it’s still entirely possible to use that big blade of grass or fiery greatsword to get some damage in while not getting too close. Damage is damage, regardless of what you’re wearing.

I hope I didn’t repeat myself too much, but I just wanted to call out the ridiculousness of this whole argument. Basically, you’re all wrong, so shut up and enjoy your game. I would like to leave you with these words from the old trailer for Minecraft:
“No one can tell you what you can or cannot do. There are no rules to follow. This adventure is up to you.”
Quite the aggressive reply, anyways, what you're saying is true, you can use whatever weapons you want. However, it's somewhat disappointing how whips are underpowered generally speaking. Also, while you most certainly can use any weapon for any class, armor and accessories, especially in the later game, heavily incentivise focusing on a single class. Therefore, i think it's valid to complain that going "pure" on the class isn't very effective.
 

Terrablade101

Terrarian
I think you misunderstood him, he wanted a reward once the world is pure, not a better way to make the world pure
I also thought an upgrade to the clentaminator post moon lord would be cool. Maybe it works like a regular clentaminator, but if you right click then it gain the ability to shoot all the way to the edge of the map. Keep in mind this is a post moon lord item, after all. Then cleansing the world would be as easy as running across the map spraying it downward. Still requires some effort, but not as much as having to dig 15 tunnels to hell to do it.
 

Sia_Later

Terrarian
I also thought an upgrade to the clentaminator post moon lord would be cool. Maybe it works like a regular clentaminator, but if you right click then it gain the ability to shoot all the way to the edge of the map. Keep in mind this is a post moon lord item, after all. Then cleansing the world would be as easy as running across the map spraying it downward. Still requires some effort, but not as much as having to dig 15 tunnels to hell to do it.
My bad, i should have let you speak for yourself, i personally would be happy with both post moon lord clentaminator and the dryad giving a reward for complete purity. but for the clentaminator, i'd like the upgrade to be a cone shaped projectile with that same range as normal rather than an infinite line, because i think it's a bit too easy post moon lord to cleanse the world and get the reward from the dryad. i wouldn't be upset if they did as you suggested though, i just think that making it a cone reinforces both the purity and intentional corruption of biomes, while making it an infinite line only benefits the purity side (because you wouldn't want to have a mapwide line of corruption).

As for the reward from the dryad, i'd like to have 3 armor sets, each that provide benefits to each class: 1 (prehardmode)
  1. head - 7 armor - +10% damage, +10% crit chance
  2. shirt - 7 armor - +15% melee speed, +1 minions, reduce ammo usage by 20%, -10% mana usage
  3. pants - 7 armor - +25% movement speed, +1 sentry
  4. Set bonus - dryad's blessing effect
2 (hardmode after 3 altars are destroyed)
  1. head - 13 armor - +15% damage, +15% crit chance
  2. shirt - 15 armor - +20% melee damage, +2 minions, reduce ammo usage by 30%, -15% mana usage
  3. pants - 12 armor - +1 hp/sec, +35% movement speed, +1 sentry
  4. Set bonus - dryad's blessing effect, dash effect (with similar distance as shield of cuthulu)
3 (hardmode after )
  1. head - 22 armor - +20% damage, +20% crit chance
  2. shirt - 24 armor - +30% melee damage, +2 minions, reduce ammo usage by 50%, -20% mana usage
  3. pants - 20 armor - +2 hp/sec, +50% movement speed, +2 sentry
  4. Set bonus - dryad's blessing effect, dash effect (with similar distance as ninja gear), a true eye of cuthulu will follow you and shoot laser beams (like in the moon lord fight after you've removed some eyes)
I'm not hard set on any of the numbers or abilities, this is just as an example, but i think it would be cool to get armor that benefits all classes. Also the melee buffs tend to be best here to compensate for lack of armor
 
I believe Red implied that there might be an achievement for world purity (of course, that isn’t official) and I suspect there are more achievements than were shown in the State of the Game.

Personally, an achievement for world purity would be enough for me, because then players have an incentive to do so while less patient players like myself don’t feel compelled to do so every single playthrough
 

Sia_Later

Terrarian
You . . . do realize that the proposal of THREE full armor sets is miles outside of the realm of this thread, right? ;)
Ok, there's so many armor sets in the game, and currently a void of armor sets that benefit all classes simultaneously. Based on people in the whip discussion, people like to mix and match classes, so an armor set that benefits all classes would probably be quite welcome modification. Armor sets like copper, platinum, palladium, titanium, and Hallowed could be modified so that they provide benefits to all classes. The hardmode ores are so close to being this already, but you have to pick which class to support based on headgear, so it's doesn't actually support all classes simultaneously.
 
Not trying to be rude or anything, but none of this is related to game balance. Rewards for Cleansing the world is more an “additional content” kind of thing, which is not what this thread is made for. Besides, 1.4.1’s been shown to not focus on additional content, and in my opinion a simple achievement for world cleansing would be sufficient anyway as I stated in my last comment.
 

KainDarkfire

Terrarian
Honestly, agreed. I always felt like the Cracked Dungeon Bricks were a bit boring and slowed things down a lot. To quote Gameraiders101: 'Redigit was hyping up those Dungeon changes, and what did we get? Cracked bricks and water pits.'
Yeah. And somehow smaller dungeons. Not happy about that one.
tl;dr - Defense is a fickle, slippery slope that is eternally threatening to reach critical mass and undermine all the danger of bosses, and so even minor buffs to Defensive build potential could wreck everything.
And yet you guys have already solved the problem for bosses. Difference is that currently you're only applying it to lava.
 
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SsIras

Terrarian
And yet you guys have already solved the problem for bosses, using the same method everyone else has for at least three decades now. (Earliest in video games I'm aware of is Dragon Lord breath) Difference is that currently you're only applying it to lava.
There are many different solutions to the defense system, most of which involving a rework to defense itself, I don't get which change you're referring too, the lava change from 1.4.1? That is, making it deal damage that doesn't trigger invincibility frames?
I think the devs just think it is too hard to change the entire defense system now.
 

Ilmarinen

Terrarian
Ok, there's so many armor sets in the game, and currently a void of armor sets that benefit all classes simultaneously. Based on people in the whip discussion, people like to mix and match classes, so an armor set that benefits all classes would probably be quite welcome modification. Armor sets like copper, platinum, palladium, titanium, and Hallowed could be modified so that they provide benefits to all classes. The hardmode ores are so close to being this already, but you have to pick which class to support based on headgear, so it's doesn't actually support all classes simultaneously.
Rather that that I would rather see some sort of armor set(s) that's just it's on special thing or some sort of utility set. That's more interesting. My long desire was some sort of hardmode upgrade to meteor armor but I would be up for any kind of strange armor.
 
The developers weren’t using lava as a basis to judge defense, that was a separate thing related to the Obsidian Rose and invincibility frames. They were judging defense off of boss attacks and boss damage.

And, I mean, they have a point. It’s very well possible to completely tank the Destroyer or Plantera with Fetid Baghnaks, even in Master Mode, and you can extend your survivability to absurd amounts with defensive gear against bosses like Moon Lord.

Of course many other games have allowed damage sponging methods in the past, but personally damage sponging isn’t either fair or fun to play, especially in games like Terraria which rely on you learning to deal with bosses’ attacks efficiently, and being able to tank bosses just negates that outright.

And there would potentially be solutions to defense, but:
“This is not a system that can be reworked. Not now. I've made some pretty significant changes, but I'm in no position to tear down the entire structure of Terraria's defensive systems and rework them from scratch. Not only do I not doubt it would be denied outright, I'm simply in no position to attempt to account for 20 bosses across 3 difficulties and 4 different classes. The sheer amount of rebalancing required would be phenomenal . . . I'd have to review/adjust every single piece of armor and every single defensive accessory in the game. Hundreds of items, dozens of bosses, multiple difficulties . . . the scale of that is tremendous, and I wouldn't really have much of an opportunity for second chances. Realistically, a better system from the start might have been a Damage Reduction % system with decreasing benefits, so that even the mightiest of tanks couldn't nullify damage, but that ship sailed in 2011. I can't bring it back now.”

So basically changing defense at this point to allow certain accessories like the Hero Shield to see more defense is way too big a project.

You guys do make a good point though, maybe Re-Logic’s next project will have mechanics like this fixed from the start, but Terraria has been like as is for too long for it to be changed at this point
 

Chuggs Gaming

Skeletron Prime
I'm on console and 1.4 isn't out yet, but I have gone through the notes for the PC update.

At first, I was pretty disappointed to hear that liquid duplication was basically removed and that changes were made that water monsters target the player differently. A compelling case could be put forth on both of those subjects, naming them as a staple of Terraria, the quirkiness of their operation being something that made Terraria, Terraria. It was a sad day for me.

However, the change that I really don't see being necessary at all is the hard-nerf of flower boots. I imagine the intent was to prevent the exploit of bait farming, but I think this was overkill.

Terraria, to me, is one of the most ingenious games ever made. It's pure art. The devs, "think like gamers".

I'm a grown man, 31 years of age, with 2 younger brothers and we have been gaming our whole lives. As of now, I'm self-employed and extremely busy, having 4 young children also. At this point in my life, I don't have the same amount of time to invest in a game like I used to. To me, Terraria is an escape from reality. It' my go to game to diffuse and just get out of my own headspace and not have to "think". Terraria has so many things that I can remember talking to my brothers about in reference to other games "they should add THIS, they should do THAT". Terraria even takes it a step further, being much more than even one can imagine, in so many ways, incorporating features one hasn't even thought of, as I said, "thinking like a gamer". The same can not be said of the developers of many mainstream games out there today.

The flower boots are such a unique item with their functionality. They are just SO Terraria, if you know what I mean. All of the different items, specifically the variety of boots, offer a different improvement. Each themed boot features a unique function. To remove the creature spawning of the grass created by the flower boots is just a very disappointing nerf, and almost renders them useless, a vanity item of sorts. I believe there could be balance implemented here without completely stripping them of their unique attributes.

And, in reality, the exploit wasn't such a horrible thing to begin with. It was just another one of those things that made the game what it is. With Journey's end seeming to be what it names itself, "The end of the Journey, the end of development", it seems a little harsh to remove certain features of the game that have been, and would continue to be, enjoyed by loyal Terrarians for so long.

Edit: typo
 
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Dr. Endie

Official Terrarian
I'm on console and 1.4 isn't out yet, but I have gone through the notes for the PC update.

At first, I was pretty disappointed to hear that liquid duplication was basically removed and that changes were made that water monsters target the player differently. A compelling case could be put forth on both of those subjects, naming them as a staple of Terraria, the quirkiness of their operation being something that made Terraria, Terraria. It was a sad day for me.

However, the change that I really don't see being necessary at all is the hard-nerf of flower boots. I imagine the intent was to prevent the exploit of bait farming, but I think this was overkill.

Terraria, to me, is one of the most ingenious games ever made. It's pure art. The devs, "think like gamers".

I'm a grown man, 31 years of age, with 2 younger brothers and we have been gaming our whole lives. As of now, I'm self-employed and extremely busy, having 4 young children also. At this point in my life, I don't have the same amount of time to invest in a game like I used to. To me, Terraria is an escape from reality. It' my go to game to diffuse and just get out of my own headspace and not have to "think". Terraria has so many things that I can remember talking to my brothers about in reference to other games "they should add THIS, they should do THAT". Terraria even takes it a step further, being much more than even one can imagine, in so many ways, incorporating features one hasn't even thought of, as I said, "thinking like a gamer". The same can not be said of the developers of many mainstream games out there today.

The flower boots are such a unique item with their functionality. They are just SO Terraria, if you know what I mean. All of the different items, specifically the variety of boots, offer a different improvement. Each themed boot features a unique function. To remove the creature spawning of the grass created by the flower boots is just a very disappointing nerf, and almost renders them useless, a vanity item of sorts. I believe there could be balance implemented here without completely stripping them of their unique attributes.

And, in reality, the exploit wasn't such a horrible thing to begin with. It was just another one of those things that made the game what it is. With Journey's end seeming to be what it names itself, "The end of the Journey, the end of development", it seems a little harsh to remove certain features of the game that have been, and would continue to be, enjoyed by loyal Terrarians for so long.

Edit: typo
Water duplication removed? No, I don't think so. It's definitely still in the game, last I checked.
 

Chuggs Gaming

Skeletron Prime
Water duplication removed? No, I don't think so. It's definitely still in the game, last I checked.
From what I understand it's not working the way it used to. I'm on console so I haven't experienced it first hand. But from what I've seen it is not nearly as productive as it was in 1.3
 
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