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Journey's End 1.4: Official Item Balance Feedback and Discussion Thread

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whoneedsnamestbh

Eye of Cthulhu
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I'm asking here anyway because whip ranges were buffed. (Thanks, they really needed it.)

Whips had farther range if they had lower attack speed, which made the Sluggish and Bulky modifiers useful for increasing range and Legendary almost a curse for shortening it. Was that fixed or is that still a thing and is it a bug or feature? It wasn't mentioned in bugs or weapon changes, but with whip ranges changed, I'm not sure if they didn't mention it or didn't change it.

Yeah, I believe it was fixed.
 

Carisei

Official Terrarian
Black Spot (Nerf)
- Top speed and acceleration decreased dramatically. Previously its top speed was higher than the UFO mount, but now it is less.
- Can no longer dash-into-mount to instantly reach top acceleration
- Note: The Black Spot was originally intended to be a mount that would be bad for boss fights due to its slow acceleration, but good for cross-world travel due to its high top speed. Unfortunately, our oversight was that this made the mount excellent for boss-kiting, so much so that it broke several boss fights. It was never intended to be useful in this manner, particularly because it comes so early in progression. We regret having to nerf it so substantially, but as an infinite flight mount that comes several tiers before the UFO mount, it should still possess substantial value as an item.
This nerf seems unwarranted, particularly on the grounds of it being "several tiers before the UFO mount" when you consider that it's also a Master mode only drop and UFO is obtainable in all difficulties. The irony behind this nerf is that you also buffed the Witch's Broom to be a minor upgrade over the UFO because it's an Expert only drop. Getting some mixed signals going on here friends.

A better "fix" might be something along the lines of make it decelerate to a minimum when you attack, would keep it's cross world travel godliness while nerfing it's combat use like it's original intent without just outright nerfing it.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
This nerf seems unwarranted, particularly on the grounds of it being "several tiers before the UFO mount" when you consider that it's also a Master mode only drop and UFO is obtainable in all difficulties. The irony behind this nerf is that you also buffed the Witch's Broom to be a minor upgrade over the UFO because it's an Expert only drop. Getting some mixed signals going on here friends.

A better "fix" might be something along the lines of make it decelerate to a minimum when you attack, would keep it's cross world travel godliness while nerfing it's combat use like it's original intent without just outright nerfing it.
that isn't why it go nerfed it was literally capable of trivializing most bosses making master mode considerably easier than expert in many fights.
 

felis

Terrarian
About the Black Spot,

A test found that its vertical speed is higher than its horizontal speed now, while there is an acceleration animation in horizontal movement, I personally feel this a little strange change.

Suggestion: Revert its max horizontal speed but make it need much more time to get that speed, so it will not be OP, and it can be used for fast movement but not for Boss/Event, also make it less strange for the movement pattern.
 

whoneedsnamestbh

Eye of Cthulhu
This nerf seems unwarranted, particularly on the grounds of it being "several tiers before the UFO mount" when you consider that it's also a Master mode only drop and UFO is obtainable in all difficulties. The irony behind this nerf is that you also buffed the Witch's Broom to be a minor upgrade over the UFO because it's an Expert only drop. Getting some mixed signals going on here friends.

A better "fix" might be something along the lines of make it decelerate to a minimum when you attack, would keep it's cross world travel godliness while nerfing it's combat use like it's original intent without just outright nerfing it.

Master Mode is supposed to be an “extension” to Expert Mode of sorts and is supposed to have the same general meta as Master, with a few QoL additions like free unicorn mount and light pets. It’s not supposed to be its whole new thing like Expert.

Not that I agree with this design choice, but I think that’s why.
 

qwerty3.14

Terrarian
About the Black Spot,

A test found that its vertical speed is higher than its horizontal speed now, while there is an acceleration animation in horizontal movement, I personally feel this a little strange change.

Suggestion: Revert its max horizontal speed but make it need much more time to get that speed, so it will not be OP, and it can be used for fast movement but not for Boss/Event, also make it less strange for the movement pattern.
You can mount into the blackspot right after a dash to reach top speed instantly.
 

Carisei

Official Terrarian
why did you cross it out? its a great idea. as I only used the black spot for its intended purpose I dont know how powerful it was in boss fights but I will miss it for traveling
A bit force of habit I suppose, I feel like the game and dev team are at a point that such a suggestion for an alternate balance change would fall on deaf ears, while still wanting to at least voice my feedback about it.

You can mount into the blackspot right after a dash to reach top speed instantly.
The ability to do this was also removed with the nerf. No more instant top speeds from a dash.
 

Leinfors

Quality Assurance
Staff member
Moderator
Re-Logic
Honestly guys . . .

Its an infinite flight mount that drops 3 (or 4, depending on how you define it) before the next infinite flight mount in progression. It SHOULDN'T be as strong as it was, and I don't think going back to that is ever going to happen, not from a pre-mech mount.

And due to the positioning of Flying Dutchmen in progression, I don't see it ever being anything other than a pre-mech mount. So this is probably where its going to stay.

I expect this is going to be one of those growing pain/unpopular changes, because it was so heavily exploited, but this is not a change I'm uncertain about (unhappy that it had to happen, yes, but I'm sure of it). Its still a really good mount for the tier you unlock it.

This was an oversight on our part. We had a plan for the item, and we didn't foresee the consequences that would come from people exploiting its perk. I'll own that. But I think its still in a pretty good place, its just not broken anymore. This mount was mostly just meant to be fun, and never meant to be a crutch for cheesing, and all of the other solutions that were considered were not favorable to the team. This is likely how the mount is going to stay.
 

JohannSimm

Retinazer
After seeing the crafting recipes for the Timeless Traveler and Plaguebringer sets – with Timeless Traveler being crafted using Rotten Chunks and Plaguebringer being crafted using Vertebrae – I have to say that neither set feels particularly tied to the theme of the evil biome they've been associated with, and I think they could use different materials.

First off, the association of the Timeless Traveller set with the Corruption doesn't seem natural to me. I think it'd make more sense if the torso and legs were crafted using some other material, such as Ectoplasm or Tattered Cloth. (Ideally each piece would use 1x of a crafting material dropped rarely from the Enchanted Sundial, which is more in line with DisRicardo's original concept, but I suspect that's pretty much out-of-the-question by this point.)

The Plaguebringer set feels infinitely more Corruption-themed than Crimson-themed – I think its set pieces should be crafted using Cursed Flames instead of Vertebrae. The set even incorporates Cursed Flames visually, making it the logical crafting material.
 
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Leinfors

Quality Assurance
Staff member
Moderator
Re-Logic
After seeing the crafting recipes for the Timeless Traveler and Plaguebringer sets – with Timeless Traveler being crafted using Rotten Chunks and Plaguebringer being crafted using Vertebrae – I have to say that neither set feels particularly tied to the theme of the evil biome they've been associated with, and I think they could use different materials.

First off, the association of the Timeless Traveller set with the Corruption doesn't feel natural to me. I think it'd make more sense if the set were crafted using some other material instead. (Ideally each piece would use 1x of a crafting material dropped rarely from the Enchanted Sundial, which is more in line with DisRicardo's original concept, but I suspect that's pretty much out-of-the-question by this point.)

The Plaguebringer set feels infinitely more Corruption-themed than Crimson-themed – I think it should be crafted using Cursed Flames instead of Vertebrae. The set even incorporates Cursed Flames visually, making it the logical crafting material. (As with Ectoplasm, Cursed Flames aren't currently used in any vanity items.)

One of Red/Cenx's conditions for the crafting recipes were that they were pre-Hardmode accessible for most/all players. So both DisRicardo's original concept (which required additional items to support it) and Cursed Flames or other HM components are out of the question, unfortunately.

I'll admit, the recipes aren't super pretty, but that was the direction that was given and so we had to make due with the materials available that were the best fit there.
 

felis

Terrarian
Another thing found in the changelog:

Jewel of Light and Pumpkin Scented Candle (Light Pets) (Buff)
- Brightness increased by roughly 50%

Sorry for mention thing not changed in 1.4.1, but why the Guardian Golem (which seems to be the same or higher tier) not get any similar buff?
 

JohannSimm

Retinazer
One of Red/Cenx's conditions for the crafting recipes were that they were pre-Hardmode accessible for most/all players. So both DisRicardo's original concept (which required additional items to support it) and Cursed Flames or other HM components are out of the question, unfortunately.

I'll admit, the recipes aren't super pretty, but that was the direction that was given and so we had to make due with the materials available that were the best fit there.
I see. What if the Timeless Traveler set used Tattered Cloth (Goblin Scout drop) instead of Rotten Chunks, and the Plaguebringer set were switched to Rotten Chunks? Alternatively, the Plaguebringer set could be crafted with either Vile or Vicious Power, making it more readily accessible on both Crimson and Corruption worlds.

Tattered Cloth is the main material used to craft the Goblin Battle Standard, and this would give it an additional use beyond that. You'd be able to use excess Tattered Cloth to make the set. Meanwhile, the two powders are readily available pre-Hardmode.

This would actually increase the availability of the two sets, as you'd no longer have to grow an artificial biome pre-Hardmode to obtain the other one.
 
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Leinfors

Quality Assurance
Staff member
Moderator
Re-Logic
Another thing found in the changelog:

Sorry for mention thing not changed in 1.4.1, but why the Guardian Golem (which seems to be the same or higher tier) not get any similar buff?

Prolly because Guardian Golem comes earlier in progression, and also because Guardian Golem has a unique mechanic where it walks ahead of you and lights the way, which the other light pets don't really offer.

The two other ones were basically reskinned Wisps with no inherent special value, so I bumped them up to being stronger than Wisp.
 

lorddamien

Duke Fishron
I want to thank everyone on the team for the ridiculous amount of free content over the years and a special thanks to Leinfors, not just for his work on this patch, but also for being so open about the process behind the changes.

Knowing why things are being changed or in some cases can't/won't be changed helps a lot and I appreciate it.

Also I couldn't help but have a big :red: smile on my face when I saw "how ya doin' Muramasa?" in the changelog 😉
 
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